I for one hope that it is a remake of Castle Greyhawk! Have the first one and have used it! I have been a DM and player off an on for about 33 yrs. I think Gary did a GREAT job that one and I also think that Eric will do a GREAT job with this one! He's done I think an awesome job of returning my faith in the true consept of Dungeon and Dragons! Keep up the GREAT WORK!
has anyone actually seen Gygax post any comments related to this mystery book? if so, does he seem to be the least bit scared that it's going to cut into his profit margin?
|
CraigClark,
You're splitting hairs, and badly at that. Gygax still owns enough of the license through his novels to make Zagyg as genuine as it could be. It's not a sourcebook, it's a castle, and he doesn't need to have everything in Greyhawk at his beck and call to recreate his fabled adventure, however varied it may be in the final tally.
Splitting what hairs?
EGG isn't writing it.The project isn't using the original dungeon, either the maps or the encounters.
It is only supposed to present the feeling of the original.
He might as well call it Castle Gord for all the relation it will have to the original at that rate.
Besides, the authenticity of Gygax's work isn't in question here, you're just blowing smoke to distract from a rude gesture on the part of Wizards, who, as it was mentioned before, have had the oppotunity to produce Greyhawk material at any time over the last six years but chose this moment to steal the spotlight from the guy who made it all happen.
As opposed to you just blowing smoke here. Or should nobody note that this project could have been done any time in the past 20+ years, but has only started sputtering forward now.
But I guess that's par for the course for Gary, to be undercut and have what he loves taken away from him. Like others, I just hope he finishes the series so we can enjoy one last go round with the old master.
Geeze dude . . . talk about a lack of respect. Gary is many things, but a hapless victim is not one of them.
And if you really want another round with him, go buy his Lejendary Adventures game. That's what he is really interested in developing these days anyway.
I'll agree that Mona's devotion to the setting may be the one thing out there that's keeping Greyhawk alive. I'll also concede that, in the absence of Gygax or Sargent, he is perhaps one of the select few that can actually write for the setting, not to mention rally support for new material within the turning gears of Wizards.
But maybe that power is limited. Let's face it, Greyhawk fans have wandered the desert for quite some time now. Castle Greyhawk would represent Wizards first significant use of the license in 5 years, a veritable lifetime to gamers. No one, not even the most optimistic among us expected this, especially at this time, but if it signals the advent of new material (and not just a one-off money grab), then it's something to herald.
Suffice to say, a lot depends upon its success, and sadly, that success will only eat into Gygax's Castle Zagyg. I'll probably end up buying them both as I suspect they will offer a lot in the way of gaming and source material, but I wonder how many others among us will do the same.
Monkeybone, I think more than you might be guessing. I know I will and I like to feel I'm part of the majority of consumers that will purchase a Greyhawk product from WotC because it's long overdue and if Erik is writing it we will be expecting it to be really, really well done and also purchase EGG's and Rob Kuntz's product out of nostalgia, if nothing else.
I really don't think anyone is going to lose out here.
Again, I feel compelled to mention:
Greyhawk has not been without support. Livign Greyhawk supports it, officially, and puts out free material for it. So stop saying there has been no support.
And, second, if you don't like LG, then do it your damn self. There have been several books put out in the past. How would a 3.5 Hardcover change anything? You can't play a agame without a current, up to date, hardcovered setting book?
...if you don't like LG, then do it your damn self. There have been several books put out in the past. How would a 3.5 Hardcover change anything? You can't play a agame without a current, up to date, hardcovered setting book?
Nice tone. Were you raised in a barnyard?
For the record, Greyhawk hasn't enjoyed ANY support that is available to the greater public; that is, unless you sign up for events far from home, attend sanctioned events that correspond to another's schedule, write away for and receive 'modules' that many find lacking, and otherwise pretend you're getting 'support' that other settings turn their noses up to.
The days of Sargent and Gygax are behind us. That much is certain. All we can hope for is the occasional love in Dungeon. But who knows? Maybe Castle Greyhawk will open some unseen floodgate and return us to an age of splendor. All this done at the cost of Gygax's final grab for glory.
It had better be brilliant. That's all I'm saying.
...if you don't like LG, then do it your damn self. There have been several books put out in the past. How would a 3.5 Hardcover change anything? You can't play a agame without a current, up to date, hardcovered setting book?Nice tone. Were you raised in a barnyard?
For the record, Greyhawk hasn't enjoyed ANY support that is available to the greater public; that is, unless you sign up for events far from home, attend sanctioned events that correspond to another's schedule, write away for and receive 'modules' that many find lacking, and otherwise pretend you're getting 'support' that other settings turn their noses up to.
The days of Sargent and Gygax are behind us. That much is certain. All we can hope for is the occasional love in Dungeon. But who knows? Maybe Castle Greyhawk will open some unseen floodgate and return us to an age of splendor. All this done at the cost of Gygax's final grab for glory.
It had better be brilliant. That's all I'm saying.
I'm stepping in your camp League. And who actually calls LG 'support'? Awful, awful... *shivers and holds blanket tighter*
Are Gygax's books even out yet. If so what is the quality of these works. Based on the number of books that I've seen Gygax put out since 3rd editions release is just staggering that one can suddenly pump out all that body of work. I believe he has a number of ghost hands that write for him in his style. His name on a book helps to ensure it's selling. He's the Forefather of the OG.
And in his golden years with grandchildren and all do you really think he's sittin around pounding freakin stat blocks and rolling random freakin treasures from the DM guide!
The royal eyes were pleased to see interest for Greyhawk returning in the form of a new work scheduled for release next year. What surprises await us? Will it be a sourcebook? Will it be Castle Greyhawk? Norton believes that question has already been answered.
When asked whether the castle was among a list of adventures scheduled for release, Wizard employees revealed that it was indeed being considered as a possibility for the Expedition series.
So to sum up, gentle readers: Admission + Cover Art + Wizard's perennial refusal to do a sourcebook = Castle Greyhawk. There can be little doubt at this point. Zagyg's nuthouse is right around the corner.
Will it be a great product? Undoubtedly. Erik Mona is writing it, for heaven's sake! Will it honor every last story regarding this legendary locale? Without question. We have only to look at Mona's previous work to reassure ourselves. Can we expect as many Greyhawk NPCs as possible? You bet! We've all read the tales and would expect no less of such an extended encounter. Is it irritating to answer your own rhetorical questions in a speculative review of a product that does not yet exist? Absolutely!
But what of Gygax? What of the man who has taken nearly thirty years to release his own version of this fabled castle? Word has the great one is finally putting pen to paper, managing a herculean 15-30 minutes of productivity per day between bouts of epic-level napping. Sources also report Gygax is suffering from curious memory lapses as the castle looks nothing like its original self. Many around the gaming genius have attributed this to Gygax's own unique talent to silmultaneously utilize revisionism and authenticity, a technique said to be possessed by only truly great gaming legends. Release of the castle and its environs is imminent, so set aside your Ben Franklins, gamers. This one won't be cheap!
"And, as a GH fan, I don't think it has to be EGG to be good."
The Castle is Gary's baby, plain and simple. Sean Reynolds can do his own dungeon. So can Erik.
"Castle Greyhawk is only for Gygax? Fine, let him publish it again, cinema and terrible star trek jokes and all."
Well I sure hope it's nothing like that 2e version; That was horrible.
Well I sure hope it's nothing like that 2e version; That was horrible."And, as a GH fan, I don't think it has to be EGG to be good."
The Castle is Gary's baby, plain and simple. Sean Reynolds can do his own dungeon. So can Erik.
"Castle Greyhawk is only for Gygax? Fine, let him publish it again, cinema and terrible star trek jokes and all."
The awful joke version was published well after Gary Gygax left TSR, and he is not listed as one of the authors.
Stefan
as someone who has never played thru any version of castle greyhawk id like to see something official but even thou Erik is a fantastic writer i do feel a little sad that mr Gygax wouldnt have something to do with it. admitidly we're not even sure if it is the castle being written. all i can say is that if it's and official WOTC Greyhawk product with nice FR masthead and everything then id be very happy indeed.
|
|
For the record, Greyhawk hasn't enjoyed ANY support that is available to the greater public; that is, unless you sign up for events far from home, attend sanctioned events that correspond to another's schedule, write away for and receive 'modules' that many find lacking, and otherwise pretend you're getting 'support' that other settings turn their noses up to.
For the record, for those who are interested in the truth about Living Greyhawk:
1. Every Living Greyhawk region maintains a website. (Although some have been unvailable because of real world issues related to them being maintained at the expense of the volunteers.) At these websites, you can find, freely available to the greater public, significant amounts of gazzetteer information on the specific region. And I mean "significant" to the point of being 50,000 word tomes on a single, specific region. Multiply that by 29 regions, all for free (well, except for the time it takes to open a window from the RPGA home page and then read all those pages, I'm sure many will complain about that), and compare it to the support other settings have received from WotC.
2. The vast majority of LG adventures can be ordered and played at home. As in, "your basement." As in "your usual gaming table." As in "without going anywhere you don't normally go." A bare majority of LG adventures can be ordered and played online. As in "without even getting up from in front of your computer."
3. Home events must be scheduled 1 week in advance. While I am sure there are some people who will casually assert that their regular group just spontaneously coalesces for games at random times and even that limited degree of planning is an excessive and undue burden on their group, I think most people know better.
4. To get the majority of LG adventures, all you need to do is set up the event, wait for your computer window to reload, then click the link and download the adventure no more than 1 week before the play date. No writing away. no waiting for anything to arrive.
To get almost all of the other LG adventures, all you need to do is download them, then set up the event, and email the regional Triad POC, with your event code, to get the password for the file and the Adventure Record file. Given that such people are volunteers, this make take a few days.
5. As for "many," which I dispute, finding them lacking, I will simply note that the adventures are free, and you are free to write your own.
6. If you think that the other settings turn their noses up at the level of support that LG gets, I suggest moseying over to the WotC boards and checking the Living Green Regent and Mark of Heroes forums. You will find thread after thread of players begging for more more adventures, more adventures, and yes, more adventures, with a better release schedule. Most of the fans of those campaigns would kill to get a tenth of the support LG gets. An observant person might also note the several things added to the Xen'drik Expeditions Campaign that mirror the LG regional/core set up, including volunteer coordinators, different "tiers" of adventures, more adventures, and more support.
LG produces more than 200 adventures every year for 29 regions, 5 metaregions, and the core.
The regional volunteers produce thousands of words of background support every year.
While I am aware that there are some who see fit to turn their noses up at that, there are thousands more that don't.
Well I sure hope it's nothing like that 2e version; That was horrible.
The awful joke version was published well after Gary Gygax left TSR, and he is not listed as one of the authors.
Stefan
I always stick my neck out on bad taste choices like this, but I actually loved the joke version as a read. Even ran the first four levels. I just had the characters all eat from a purportedly magical berry bush beforehand. Made the whole thing make a kind of sense.
Suffice to say, a lot depends upon its success, and sadly, that success will only eat into Gygax's Castle Zagyg.
This is doubtful. I have a feeling that the vast majority of gamers who have been paying attention to Gary's Castle Zagyg will still buy it or not irregardless of an "Expedition to Castle Greyhawk".
What I find befuddling is the outraged engendered here and elsewhere that WotC would dare tread on Gary's 'sacred ground'.
I would feel a lot more outraged if Gary hadn't already admitted that he doesn't identify with the current state of Greyhawk as some sort of bastardized tripe. His abandoning the old notes for CG and leaving the majority of writing and design up to other people sans Rob Kuntz only seals the deal for me.
I have no doubt which version I will find more palatable.
I don't believe for a moment that gamers will buy "just one" dungeon adventure in 2007, and that it will either be EtGC or CZ, thus potentially stealing bread from Gary's mouth. EtGC can only increase awareness (and sales!) of CZ.
I won't repost it here, but I encourage anyone interested in my long-winded, and I believe level-headed, thoughts on the matter to read my post over on the Dragonsfoot board at http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19542&start=36
Denis, aka "Maldin"
====================================
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... maps, magic, mysteries, mechanics, and more!
|
Oh, and 'irregardless' isn't a word. Pick up a dictionary once in a while.
Yeah! Like Meriam-Webster's Dictionary!
Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less
Pronunciation: "ir-i-'gärd-l&s
Function: adverb
Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless
nonstandard : REGARDLESS
usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.
Nonstandard English, but still a word. Be nice to people.
Besides is this all guess work as to what Mona is working on. And it could well be something else; Like Undermountain or Toee. Exactly what are you people arguing over that hasn't even been confirmed as of yet or has it?
Nice tone. Were you raised in a barnyard?
Thanks for the flame. Very constructive.
For the record, Greyhawk hasn't enjoyed ANY support that is available to the greater public; that is, unless you sign up for events far from home, attend sanctioned events that correspond to another's schedule, write away for and receive 'modules' that many find lacking, and otherwise pretend you're getting 'support' that other settings turn their noses up to.
As was said earlier, you could not be more wrong. You just choose to not go with this stuff that is out there, free and easy. And they accept well written adventures by others. And isn't that wonderful- everyone can participate. You can be as involved as you want!!
My point was that a setting does not need a 40 dollar hardcover to be "alive" or "supported." You can make everything yourself, and use existing material. There is this general environment amongst many GH fans that "WotC doesn't put out X books per year, so they hate GH. And they are trying to kill it."
Its just not true. There is support, and you can be involved. And if you don't like it, there is a wealth of GH material out there to use already, so use it.
As for Living Greyhawk, just download the 'modules' from a file-sharing network like Shareaza and avoid the hassle of the triads. There are hundreds of these adventures out there and can be plugged into any time period you see fit. I don't deal with the regional people. They're unreliable, never get back to you, and hound you about the details when you should be free to do things as you see fit. For the most part, the Living Greyhawk organization is tedious and heavy handed when it comes to player satisfaction.
I´m convinced those triad members will be much more willing to spend their free time (as in: doing the triad work voluntarily and honorary) to satisfy your wishes after you describe them that positive. And requesting people to steal intellectual property of the authors will certainly help a lot as well.
I don´t play in LG as well, but thats because I don´t like the way it is organized - it does restrict your freedom as player or DM. That much is true, but it would not work any other way. To be part of a community, you have to submit to their rules. Take it or leave it, but don´t blame the members that they enforce the rules they have submitted to themselves.
Sorry, but that post irritated me that much.
Stefan
My point was that a setting does not need a 40 dollar hardcover to be "alive" or "supported." You can make everything yourself, and use existing material. There is this general environment amongst many GH fans that "WotC doesn't put out X books per year, so they hate GH. And they are trying to kill it."
Its just not true. There is support, and you can be involved. And if you don't like it, there is a wealth of GH material out there to use already, so use it.
I think I understand what you mean here, and you make many great points, but I also slightly disagree with you. When I think about a setting being "alive" and "supported", I think of settings like as Eberron and Forgotten Realms--in such cases, you can expect new material to be released in regular intervals, with salient new information about the unknown recesses in each gaming world. The products being released for these books have gorgeous artwork, professional production qualities, et al.
While it's true that Greyhawk is being supported in Dungeon (and Dragon, I suppose), when it comes to WotC...I'm not seeing anything that fits *my* definition above of "alive and supported" (which, of course, you're welcome to take issue with--everybody's definition I'm sure is different). Living Greyhawk doesn't really fit that bill, either (you may or may not disagree here; looking though some LG scenarios though, the quality and professional acumen put into each varies wildly).
For me, bottom line: I can't see Greyhawk as "alive and supported" unless I see it getting the same kind of treatment as Eberron and FR. You're absolutely right, though, when you say you can use what you want, make up what you want, and that there's already plenty out there. All that is absolutley true. Further, I agree with you in that WotC isn't trying to *kill* Greyhawk--as far as I'm concerned, they're just making a business decision to go in a different direction (a bad one, sure, but that's just one guy's opinion). Still, in the end, I want more in the way of "official" support. And I think that I dare say that most Greyhawk fans would like that, too.
Your milage may vary, of course.
|
|
Sorry, but that post irritated me that much.
Stefan
That's OK, I would have said it if you hadn't.
As for your reason for not playing LG, that is why I have a very active home campaign in addition to all the work I do with LG. I like having that freedom as a DM, and letting it my players work with it too.
Of course, thousands of players don't play my home campaign. And that's why I keep working with LG despite the mass of rules and restriction. (Especially the ones I put on people in the past. :) )
|
|
Castle Zagyg is a great book if old school Gygax is what you after. Problem is a year later we're still waiting for book 2!
I hope it's Greyhawk, or Castle Greyhawk... come to think of it, since it was primarily Eric's run on Dungeon and Dragon magazine that got me buying again, I'll be getting whatever it is the day it comes out.
I'm not a big fan of LG either, although I have used a few of the modules, but I'm more excited by the prospect that Castle Greyhawk will renew Wotc's interest in doing Greyhawk material. Who knows, we may even get an updated sourcebook before 4e rolls around.
heh. all it needs now is for Erik to announce that the book is indeed a Dark Sun revival and all this discussion will be for nothing. to be honest ill buy it pretty much whatever it may be as i try and get anything put out by core Wotc. if i ever get to use it is another matter with age of worms and savage tide most likely gonna take up all my gaming time. as for Wotc not supporting Greyhawk, techinically any non- eberron or FR book can be seen as a adding to the setting. Scuttle cove in vile darkness being in the new adventure path, saltmarsh in DMG 2 these and more are greyhawk locales that can be used in a campaign.
Well, whatever it is, our "Friend Mona," will no doubt make it come to life for our enjoyment purposes, and that's the bottom line with me at least.
Truer words were never spoken. I trust the crew at Paizo to a) not be perfect, b) make things enjoyable for us, and c) keep up the good work.
I must admit that rampant speculation threads like this amuse me; all this does is ... well ... give people an excuse to complain. :)
'Erik Mona' is Gygax's new non-de-plume.
Based on the number of books that I've seen Gygax put out since 3rd editions release is just staggering that one can suddenly pump out all that body of work. I believe he has a number of ghost hands that write for him in his style.That would be fraud. Some of the other Gygaxian Fantasy books are by other hands, but we have no reason to doubt anything under Gary's actual byline is by him.
Actually not fraud at all. All Gary has to do is write an intro, a sketch of a conclusion and a rough outline and he's in the same boat as Edward Stratemeyer (the guy who started out Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys, Bobsy Twins, Tom Terrific, etc.) or Tom Clancy or Clive Cussler.
Fraud would be if Erik put Gary's name on the book without his permission so it would sell better. There needs to be some profit invovled for fraud. If Erik used Gary's notes without the legal right to do so, it would be theft of intellectual property. If Erik put Gary's name on it, it was total crap and Erik was doing it to impugn Gary, it would be libel.
It could be any or all of the above, under the right circumstances.
Based on the number of books that I've seen Gygax put out since 3rd editions release is just staggering that one can suddenly pump out all that body of work. I believe he has a number of ghost hands that write for him in his style.That would be fraud. Some of the other Gygaxian Fantasy books are by other hands, but we have no reason to doubt anything under Gary's actual byline is by him.Actually not fraud at all. All Gary has to do is write an intro, a sketch of a conclusion and a rough outline and he's in the same boat as Edward Stratemeyer (the guy who started out Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys, Bobsy Twins, Tom Terrific, etc.) or Tom Clancy or Clive Cussler.
Fraud would be if Erik put Gary's name on the book without his permission so it would sell better. There needs to be some profit invovled for fraud. If Erik used Gary's notes without the legal right to do so, it would be theft of intellectual property. If Erik put Gary's name on it, it was total crap and Erik was doing it to impugn Gary, it would be libel.
It could be any or all of the above, under the right circumstances.
There was a time when I was fairly convinced Stephen King was doing the same thing. His books over the last fifteen years so follow the same formula I'd believe you if you told me he was dead and they were just making him seem alive after the accident.
"And now for my fifth book this year..."
|
There was a time when I was fairly convinced Stephen King was doing the same thing. His books over the last fifteen years so follow the same formula I'd believe you if you told me he was dead and they were just making him seem alive after the accident.
"And now for my fifth book this year..."
Check it out, ghost writing can be profitable...
\url=http://scottwesterfeld.com/author/rants/ghost.htm]Check it out[/url], ghost writing can be profitable...
Now that is an education. Thanks, DF. Fascinating stuff.
When will the Overload to Erik Mona's secret project be available on this website? I am subscriber and I don't think I should have to wait for it until the hardcover is published.
It's using ones name to derive sales. The bottom line is fan reaction to this. People are like water, at times, they rise to their own level. If sales decrease perhaps this would be an indicator to become more creative and put out worthier material instead of following a respinning and dry formula. In the "15-year" case you point out, well, perhaps King is "burnt out" on ideas, but then again his publisher(s) are probably not so burnt out on the money they derive from selling his works. And if his works still sell well, then perhaps the fans aren't burnt out on his stuff either. Note that thois doesn't make his work above average but only "sellable," and to many (but not all) publishers, that is the bottom line.
Thanks for the inside read, Unc. That helps me to piece together some understanding of what's really going on out there in publishing. I, too, am like water. Yellow water in a kiddie pool if you must know.
We will be using the World Serpent Inn extensively in the next Campaign Classics issue of Dragon.
That's not what I was talking about in the editorial, though. :)
--Erik
Let a vet take a guess: A reference to maybe an inn and a tavern, both in the same line...
Let's See...
The "Green Dragon" was a tavern in LotR, correct?...
...And the name of a famous "Inn" in Greyhawk (I should know, my PC, Robilar, owned it in the original campaign).
Just guessing, of course... :)
RJK
I know Robilar had lost a shield with a Green Dragon's Emblem on it in the TOEE original somewhere on 1st or 2 level.
Clues or hints uncle-
Really if you read through a older ver it's in there believe me! although it's not magical. But I believe it's mentioned as being Robilars shield. Then again I could have put there myself as I was reading alot about you and Gary's campaign.
|
|
There was a time when I was fairly convinced Stephen King was doing the same thing. His books over the last fifteen years so follow the same formula I'd believe you if you told me he was dead and they were just making him seem alive after the accident.
"And now for my fifth book this year..."
Haven't you ever read Edgar Rice Burroughs?
24 Tarzan Books, 11 John Carter books, 6 Pellucidar books, 5 Carson of Venus books, and 1 plot.And he is just a particularly easy example, many other authors are the same, and you can almost anticipate when a particular theme is due to show up in their books.
Alas, I do not retain a copy of it to this day, though after so many years, heh, lost count, I might have forgotten about the reference, so I don't doubt you. Robilar's shield (the +3 one) was the one he always carried, so if there is another in ToEE it was placed therein as a literary expansion by EGG. The only thing I lost from that addy was my castle, as I abandonned it to the forces of weal (and a vengeful DM :) ).
Did it have a Green Dragon on it (The Shield)
Any plans to write up something on Robilar or Rary for 3.5 or are they out of your hands...What ever became of Quij