Greyhawk? don't really care about it


3.5/d20/OGL

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Allen Stewart wrote:

I'm not merely writing to convert the odd reader to my point of view. I think that a number of the editors for Dungeon magazine, as well as numerous writers for the magazine read and communicate through these posts. They are the individuals I am primarily writing to. It is also my hope that the Forgetable Realms & Eberron loving folks over at WoTC read them also. I have yet to write directly to WoTC, but I'll probably do that in the future. I'll bet they can't wait to hear from me :D

There's time I wish I could clone myself so as to better support the product platforms I'm passionate (and alliterative) about. All I can promise is that anything anyone puts out with a GH on it is getting bought by me.

Unless the GH stood for Gnu Handler Monthly. I hate animals with silent consonants in their names. Frankly, they sicken me.

Edit: I like Tsajdaka in the Duchy of Neil. I wonder who else's name we could pervert into a location on the Greyhawk map?

Liberty's Edge

Erikmonaland is kinda next to Hepmonaland.


Heathansson wrote:
Erikmonaland is kinda next to Hepmonaland.

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Gnu Handler Monthly sounds like a Linux-oriented/open source magazine. :D

Scarab Sages

And I suppose to be true to Gygax's tendency to parse the player's names into place names...

The Trecherous Shoals of Bhumlan
The Frost Barbarians of Suttergard
That sinister little swampy sea-side town of Rotracm (not a huge setting, but everyone fondly remembers THAT teeth-cutting adventure).
The Egg of Sbocaj (in honor of Chuko...wark!)

The list is at least as long as the payroll of Paizo employees.

Liberty's Edge

Then of course there's the Righteous Acreage of the Sea Royal Dudes, a.k.a. the Theocracy of the Tan.
"Next wave, kook!"
"Yoh, bogus, brah!"


The Jade wrote:
Allen Stewart wrote:

There's time I wish I could clone myself so as to better support the product platforms I'm passionate (and alliterative) about. All I can promise is that anything anyone puts out with a GH on it is getting bought by me.

A nice thought. As long as you buy them, that's good enough for me. If Paizo puts out a Greyhawk hardback, I'm buying stock in the company. Assuming they've gone public...


Heathansson wrote:
Erikmonaland is kinda next to Hepmonaland.

do we have any Greyhawk sources that detail this country? I am thinking about including it in my Savage Tide campaign and would like to flesh out other countries on the ocean.

How old is it? Is the climate like Minnesota? What schools are in the countryside?

Liberty's Edge

One bit of advice: if you go there, give any and all canines a wiiiiide berth.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Let us not forget that treacherous land somewhere to the west of the Duchy of Phil... er... Geoff --- the Duchy of Hazzard. Which of the young Dukes, Beauregard or Lucas, will claim the bucket leather throne? Will the comely D'Aisy submit to marrying one of them to unify crown? Which side will General Leigh and his forces support?


waltero wrote:
Let us not forget that treacherous land somewhere to the west of the Duchy of Phil... er... Geoff --- the Duchy of Hazzard. Which of the young Dukes, Beauregard or Lucas, will claim the bucket leather throne? Will the comely D'Aisy submit to marrying one of them to unify crown? Which side will General Leigh and his forces support?

D'Aisy can't mary either of the Dukes . . . they are her cousins . . . I beleive the apprentice of the Sheriff might be interested in marrying into the family.

But unfortunately he works for Lord Porcine the White.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

D'Aisy can't mary either of the Dukes . . . they are her cousins . . . I beleive the apprentice of the Sheriff might be interested in marrying into the family.

Ahhhh., but it is a backwards land with much inbreeding (cue banjos) and they are not adverse to marrying cousins.

You are right to suspect Lord Porcine. Rumor is that he can produce a marriage certificate for D'Aisy and Rosk-o, Sheriff of Coaltrayne. He might then push to place her in the throne.

Liberty's Edge

waltero wrote:


Ahhhh., but it is a backwards land with much inbreeding (cue banjos) and they are not adverse to marrying cousins.

That's what Lovecraftian conisseurs refer to as "the Innsmouth look."

Oh, and Hazzard is a COUNTY not a DUCHY.
The ruler is the Count of Monte Cristo.


Heathansson wrote:


The ruler is the Count of Monte Cristo.

Did somebody say Krystal?


The Jade wrote:
Verbobonc in French means 'enthusiastically chatty lovemaking'. It's a fact.

My first language is French, and I've never heard such an expression. I'll presume that you are presenting this "fact" in jest. I just want this clarified, so that gullible non-French speaking gamers don't go off yet again with misconceptions of other languages and cultures (I see so many failed attempts at using French words or expressions in gaming products that I now think authors should refrain from borrowing words from other languages unless they have a thorough understanding of the language's spelling and grammar).

But I concede that your definition of Verbobonc would be a pretty funny joke...


TwiceBorn wrote:
The Jade wrote:
Verbobonc in French means 'enthusiastically chatty lovemaking'. It's a fact.

My first language is French, and I've never heard such an expression. I'll presume that you are presenting this "fact" in jest. I just want this clarified, so that gullible non-French speaking gamers don't go off yet again with misconceptions of other languages and cultures (I see so many failed attempts at using French words or expressions in gaming products that I now think authors should refrain from borrowing words from other languages unless they have a thorough understanding of the language's spelling and grammar).

But I concede that your definition of Verbobonc would be a pretty funny joke...

You just authored my favorite post ever!

Do I have to show you my rubber chicken? I am in the guild. Fifth level Unfunnifier, don'tcha know? Real world LOL at my joke needing to be identified and labelled as such. That is precious.

"Ith thith? Ith thith a joke?"

'It's a fact,' as you well surmised, was meant to be humorous because I was (perhaps not so clearly) satirizing. Now I guess it's entirely possible that some people, deeply adoring of my internet good looks, might now actually run around spouting Greyhawk map locations and thinking themselves wordly speakers of French and so...

I would like to apologize to the French for this betrayal of trust. I would even like to apologize to those even thinking about visiting France or enjoying Camembert. Now, TwiceBorn, tell us how to talk dirty in French! ;) I like you. I hope one day you're ThriceBorn.

Let me autopsy the intended humor:

I guess verbal bonking sounded kinda Verbobonc to me, and thus, I added to an already-in-progress humor scheme involving the romance languages.

The patient died at 1:32 EST.


You should have taken another level of jester . . . I'm just saying . . .


KnightErrantJR wrote:

You should have taken another level of jester . . . I'm just saying . . .

I know, I know... I had to class away for the better BAB since none of my GAGs were hitting their mark.


The Jade wrote:


You just authored my favorite post ever!

Do I have to show you my rubber chicken? I am in the guild. Fifth level Unfunnifier, don'tcha know? Real world LOL at my joke needing to be identified and labelled as such. That is precious.

"Ith thith? Ith thith a joke?"

'It's a fact,' as you well surmised, was meant to be humorous because I was (perhaps not so clearly) satirizing. Now I guess it's entirely possible that some people, deeply adoring of my internet good looks, might now actually run around spouting Greyhawk map locations and thinking themselves wordly speakers of French and so...

I would like to apologize to the French for this betrayal of trust. I would even like to apologize to those even thinking about visiting France or enjoying Camembert. Now, TwiceBorn, tell us how to talk dirty in French! ;) I like you. I hope one day you're ThriceBorn.

Let me autopsy the intended humor:

I guess verbal bonking sounded kinda Verbobonc to me, and thus, I added to an already-in-progress humor scheme involving the romance languages.

The patient died at 1:32 EST.

Heh... I don't know whether I should be honoured or dismayed by the esteem in which you hold my post. :-)

I strongly suspected that your dissection of Verbobonc was meant to be sarcastic, and that it would have followed the autopsy which you have since spelled out (by the way, please send my condolences to the deceased's family). But I think there are younger players or others who may have more limited knowledge of foreign cultures and languages, for whom the sarcasm may have gone unnoticed. And I stand by my assessment that 95% of game designers can't put two French words together without making a spelling or grammatical error (and that really irks me--if you can't do it well, then don't do it at all).

As for apologizing to the French... well, that's not my nationality, but if you feel the need to apologize to the old colonial powers, then go right ahead... but I, for one, don't think it's necessary! The enjoyment of Camembert (and better yet -- Brie!) should be an innate pleasure... I chastize fools of all nationalities who do not appreciate good cheese! :-)

As for talkin' dirty... hmmm... guess we may need to start our own private thread (which might overlap that "D&D players are better at" thread)... :-)

Has this post outranked my previous one in terms of appeal yet? [ducks as rotten eggs are thrown at him from by pretty much everyone else on these boards]...

And now, back to our regular program (by the way, thanks for the laughs, Jade)...

The Exchange

waltero wrote:

D'Aisy can't mary either of the Dukes . . . they are her cousins . . . I beleive the apprentice of the Sheriff might be interested in marrying into the family.

Ahhhh., but it is a backwards land with much inbreeding (cue banjos) and they are not adverse to marrying cousins.

You are right to suspect Lord Porcine. Rumor is that he can produce a marriage certificate for D'Aisy and Rosk-o, Sheriff of Coaltrayne. He might then push to place her in the throne.

Sounds like the the new "Man Forever" type of spoof adventure in Dungeon. Write it up and it'll make it into the mag.

FH (Rosk-o was a Ranger with a Fiendish-Basset animal companion)


TwiceBorn wrote:


Heh... I don't know whether I should be honoured or dismayed by the esteem in which you hold my post. :-)

I strongly suspected that your dissection of Verbobonc was meant to be sarcastic, and that it would have followed the autopsy which you have since spelled out (by the way, please send my condolences to the deceased's family). But I think there are younger players or others who may have more limited knowledge of foreign cultures and languages, for whom the sarcasm may have gone unnoticed. And I stand by my assessment that 95% of game designers can't put two French words together without making a spelling or grammatical error (and that really irks me--if you can't do it well, then don't do it at all).

As for apologizing to the French... well, that's not my nationality, but if you feel the need to apologize to the old colonial powers, then go right ahead... but I, for one, don't think it's...

Be honoured. And I was orginially going to type brie, but I though Camembert had more zazz. I'm striking out all over the place! Cest la Vie! ;)

Scarab Sages

Fake Healer wrote:
Sounds like the the new "Man Forever" type of spoof adventure in Dungeon. Write it up and it'll make it into the mag.

*Note to self: Hurry and submit the query for adventure where PC's must save Caravan Master BeoJay, his were-bear xvart cohort, and the seven nubile half-fey teamsters (teamstresses?) from the cluches of the mighty Shire-reeve L'obo.

Take it easy and don't let the sound of your own wagon wheels make you crazy,
Gavgoyle


Fake Healer wrote:
FH (Rosk-o was a Ranger with a Fiendish-Basset animal companion)

Seriously, Fiendish-Basset? Master stroke, sir. Good enough to be a band name.


Gavgoyle wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:
Sounds like the the new "Man Forever" type of spoof adventure in Dungeon. Write it up and it'll make it into the mag.

*Note to self: Hurry and submit the query for adventure where PC's must save Caravan Master BeoJay, his were-bear xvart cohort, and the seven nubile half-fey teamsters (teamstresses?) from the cluches of the mighty Shire-reeve L'obo.

Take it easy and don't let the sound of your own wagon wheels make you crazy,
Gavgoyle

Greggus Evigannus to the rescue!

Scarab Sages

The Jade wrote:
Greggus Evigannus to the rescue!

Huh-huh, you said 'annus'.

(Bevis and Butt-head were very hard on one of my friends who tutored Latin...)


a bit late but i find it amusing that people who think that eberron is going to degenerate into the clutter of different styles(tolkien, arabic etc) that FR has. Eberron has all the surface area of the world already mapped out where would the new contentents go?

That said my biggest gripe with greyhawk, is that it's a generic fantasy setting, it's like middle earth if tolkien was constrained by the D&D rule set. It's leagues better than FR in my opionion (Everything about that makes my skin crawl, the gods, the contentents the peoples, the drow, the elfs and all 7+ varieties) because of constistancy, but that doesn't change the fact it' esentially gygax's homebrew and who really wants to play in someone elses homebrew.

Also for the level creep argument i really dont see it that much in eberron either ( their's a difference between what people expected and got, but from messagesboard antics with baker and with baker writing some of the higher level badass's in i somehow dont see the "sell out per say".

Sure they did some of the "Original ADventures" in greyhawk, but hey if they had t he choice do you think they still would today/

Logos


Logos wrote:

...that doesn't change the fact it' esentially gygax's homebrew and who really wants to play in someone elses homebrew.

Logos

I'm not trying to flame you or start an argument but I find this reasoning flawed. Isn't Eberron 'essentially Keith Baker's homebrew'? If you don't want to play in someone else's homebrew how is it that Eberron is acceptable and others aren't?

I have no problem with people enjoying whatever campaign they enjoy. Play more D&D, whatever the setting.


Almost all the most lastingly popular fantasy RPG settings were initially created by one person for their private use, whether for prose fiction or roleplaying campaigns. The alternative -- a group of designers creating a setting on spec for a publisher -- has a much worse success record.

The World of Greyhawk is almost nothing like Middle-earth -- Tolkien isn't one of Gary's main influences. And your use of 'generic' is entirely circular, since AD&D and the World of Greyhawk were two parts of a single creation.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

TwiceBorn wrote:


Yeah, Verbobonc, Hochoch, and Furyondy ("furry undies???") are three of the places at which my players raised their eyebrows, but they got over them quickly. I try to pronounce Verbobonc with a distinctive accent (rolling the "r" while pronouncing the word quickly in a quasi-mutter)... and if they inquire as to its origins, I'll probably end up saying that it's the Oeridian spelling/pronunciation of a badly corrupted Flan name. For Furyondy, I emphasize the "Fury," and make sure that ondy is pronounced "awndy," not "undy." I end up doing this for quite a few places, but I don't mind.

I don't even PLAY Greyhawk, but I can look at these names and say they aren't silly at all. You're just thinking too Americanly (if it wasn't a word before, it is now!). Don't think of it as English, because its not. First of all, Verbobonc is French. VEHR-bo-bonse is how you should say it. Doesn't sound so stupid now, does it? Hochoch is quasi-Gaelic. Think Irish/Scottish for this one. It's HO-koch, not HOCK-hoch. Furyondy... well... okay, that one I have no idea on. FUHR-yondy would be my guess.

Liberty's Edge

I hear there's a power vacuum in the Gran March of Bissel.
They need to take it down to the Sea of Dust and clean up some.


Fatespinner wrote:
TwiceBorn wrote:


Yeah, Verbobonc, Hochoch, and Furyondy ("furry undies???") are three of the places at which my players raised their eyebrows, but they got over them quickly. I try to pronounce Verbobonc with a distinctive accent (rolling the "r" while pronouncing the word quickly in a quasi-mutter)... and if they inquire as to its origins, I'll probably end up saying that it's the Oeridian spelling/pronunciation of a badly corrupted Flan name. For Furyondy, I emphasize the "Fury," and make sure that ondy is pronounced "awndy," not "undy." I end up doing this for quite a few places, but I don't mind.
I don't even PLAY Greyhawk, but I can look at these names and say they aren't silly at all. You're just thinking too Americanly (if it wasn't a word before, it is now!). Don't think of it as English, because its not. First of all, Verbobonc is French. VEHR-bo-bonse is how you should say it. Doesn't sound so stupid now, does it? Hochoch is quasi-Gaelic. Think Irish/Scottish for this one. It's HO-koch, not HOCK-hoch. Furyondy... well... okay, that one I have no idea on. FUHR-yondy would be my guess.

Please remember that I was writing in defense of the Greyhawk names, and not disparaging them. Thinking too Americanly? Not likely... neither I nor my players are American, and I think of myself as a relatively "worldly" fella. Verbobonc sounds French? Uh, sorry my friend, but French words that end with "onc" never have an "onse" pronunciation (you would require an "e" after the "onc" for that to work). Verbobonc in French would sound much as it does in English, except with a slightly deeper and more nasal sounding "bonc."

Your suggestion for Hochoch works (I too think it has Gaelic overtones).

But how do you make Stoink sound cool? I must admit I will face a challenge if ever I take my players there!

I can't believe I'm debating fantasy name pronunciation as if it were a matter of consequence, and approaching the topic with the conviction of a linguistics professor (which I am not, despite being multilingual)... LOL


Stow-enkh?

Definitely not so that it rhymes with boink?


Eberron is no more generic i'd say then Starjammer , that said greyhawk seems to me to be the Baseline for a DnD module ( and observation may just be that it is so closely related to the creation of Adnd to begin with) doesn't change my point. The Baseline is a Measuring Tool not something i would call terribly inspired.

(and i do find grewhawk tolkienish, i find all fantasy tolkienish, im sure gygax would disagree with me and tell me how much he hates tolkien and how much his campeign setting is not like tolkien but i would tell him how wrong he is in my opioion)

and yes i've read lots of other fantasy besides tolkien trust me this is not a limit of my fantasy reading experiance. The Politics of Grewhawk are their and as well done as can be expected, the land is their and is as well done as can be expeted and at one time i was really excited about grewhawk and then a few weeks later i looked over the material i gathered and said to myself , This is goign to play like some two bit tolkien wannabe and i stopped their. Just my opioinon experiance there.

When People Describe greyhawk i find they use words like gritty and hard but i find these more euphimisms for detailed and painststaking.

It ould really come down to i'v never had anyone really bring the world alive for me, but that the setting requires that ( I'm sure this is where gygax would say this is where the Dm is surposed to make a grand epic story that has nothing to do with Halfling's carrying a cursed and epic ring into a firey volcano)

As aposed to eberron for me where i find the emphasis is on getting the PC's to point a, letting them do their thing , gettin them to point b letting them do their thing, getting them home letting them buy stuff and level and have fun all the while, without worrying about what will happen if some grand story isn't found for them.

As the Editor in his Game said, "This isn't Dungeon's and Dragon's You'e turned it into Whoring and Wenching" but hey whatever turns your crank and lets you have fun

Also while i am trying to make an argument at least somewhat sound it's based on my own experiance and more than one person would say that this is not to be trusted (perhaps even by me)

Logos


Logos wrote:

Eberron is no more generic i'd say then Starjammer

Hm . . . I don't know how the members of Corsair's crew will take to being compared to Eberron . . . Hepzibah might be mistaken for a shifter I guess, and Ch'od does look like a lizard folk of some kind . . . but I bet Raza would feel right at home.


Lol this is what i'd get for reading Paizo and Marvel Concurrently,

STill I think the Starjammer's would do awesome in eberron , and i wonder if anyone can guess the campeign setting i was refering too

Corsair is also a kewl name,NPC TIme

Logos


Fatespinner wrote:


I don't even PLAY Greyhawk, but I can look at these names and say they aren't silly at all. You're just thinking too Americanly (if it wasn't a word before, it is now!). Don't think of it as English, because its not. First of all, Verbobonc is French. VEHR-bo-bonse is how you should say it. Doesn't sound so stupid now, does it? Hochoch is quasi-Gaelic. Think Irish/Scottish for this one. It's HO-koch, not HOCK-hoch. Furyondy... well... okay, that one I have no idea on. FUHR-yondy would be my guess.

I was just having fun with Verbobonc.

As an aside this literal translation thing is really something of an Anglo-Saxon trait and can't be pinned on the Americans. The British, historically at least, are famous for it. Tommy's and their khaki and red coated fore bearers wandered the world and when they came upon a local name that did not roll off their tongue easily or maybe sounded almost like something else they were more familiar with they simply fixed the problem by modifying the name and sticking the new and improved version on their maps and charts.

Of course they did not always have the luxury of changing the maps. For example if one reads about the British advance across France in World War Two one gets the strong impression that the natives would not recognize most of the landmarks the British where fighting for. For example I recall reading of a small battle where the British where trying to capture a hospital complex that had been occupied by the Germans and turned into a fortified defensive position. It of course had a French name but the Tommy's heard the name of the complex, and decided that it sounded like 'Two Pence' so that's what they called it ever after. When those selfsame British vets returned home after the war they would regale each other with grossly distorted fabrications down at their local pub of their struggle to take 'Two Pence' off the Germans and how after much heart ache they finally triumphed and captured 'Two Pence'.


Torpedo wrote:
Logos wrote:

...that doesn't change the fact it' esentially gygax's homebrew and who really wants to play in someone elses homebrew.

Logos

I'm not trying to flame you or start an argument but I find this reasoning flawed. Isn't Eberron 'essentially Keith Baker's homebrew'? If you don't want to play in someone else's homebrew how is it that Eberron is acceptable and others aren't?

I have no problem with people enjoying whatever campaign they enjoy. Play more D&D, whatever the setting.

A more interesting take on this, IMO, would be if one were to hold the position that, yes, Eberron is essentially Keith Bakers homebrew and that presumably The Forgotten Realms is essentially Ed Greenwoods homebrew.

Contributor

Or for that matter that Tolkien's World is his homebrew, so why read the LotR, instead stick to Earth's History by petitioning God in prayer about what he really did during those 7 days...

Liberty's Edge

Erik Mona wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
As soon as Erik Mona announces his 'secret project' everybody in the City of Greyhawk will be happy. I heard it while on a vision quest from a little green man dancing on a cactus.

I really need to have a talk with Mescalito. He is terrible with secrets. :)

--Erik

He he he he he!!!

Funny little green dude.

Liberty's Edge

So.......what did I win?


You win nothing Heathansson.

On the setting thing, I enjoy Eberron and at least some elements of FR. I would probably enjoy elements at least of Greyhawk (and kudos for spelling it GREY) and would buy if it were assembled in a GHCS book for 3.5.

On the names, take a look at North America, South America, Australia. Some of the names (from NA Canada (actually a French bastardization of Kanata meaning the village), Toronto, Ontario, Iqaluit (pronounced EE kal ew it), Nunavut, Quebec, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Ohio, Manhatten, Mississippi, Idaho, Iowa, etc) are all derived from First Nations and Inuit (or indian and eskimo for some people) words. A similar story in Australia, where names derive from Aboriginee words and in Africa too. The names sound perfectly reasonable in the original languages but may seem odd to different tongues until they have been used enough to seem normal.

Dark Archive

Kalin Agrivar wrote:

If GH was still a viable campaign world then produce official products for it, if it doesn't sell then that sucks but there are Dark Sun and Birthright fans that wish WoC would do something for them

and the fact that there is no real GH products being made for the core rules (the dogma of GH) it shows that the "crunchers" and "sellers" know that GH isn't really a seller...and that is too bad :(

Kalin

Or the bean counters and folks in charge are just like you and don't like GH and gave it passing support but no real support and then do what you just did an say "see, no one likes it, it sucks and doesn't sell."


Uh, you did notice the rest of the posts date back to 2006 right? Eight years ago. Well, seven and a half. You have some serious thread necromancy going on here carmachu! :D

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