No one buys medium or heavy armor


3.5/d20/OGL

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I've noticed that in all of the 3 D&D campaigns I run or play in, there is only one character (seventeen total) that wears heavy armor. No one wants those armor check penalties and speed reduction.

Is this a common phenomenon? Could it be that just about everyone that I game with is obsessed with high dexterity scores? It really came to my attention when the party found a suit of +3 plate armor recently and no one wanted it. It doesn't help that there's only one true fighter and one true cleric among the bunch--everyone else is a barbarian/ranger/rogue something or other.

Has your experience with this differed or been the same or have you not noticed this?


I have noticed this also. The bonus for dexterity far outreaches the benefits of heavy armor less the penalties.

Though, it could also be that since 3rd edition came out and my group reaching adulthood, we tend to be less min/max players and more true role-players.

Growing up I used to always play some sort of sword swinging meat grinder w/ unstoppable AC. 3rd Edition is more roleplaying friendly and adulthood helps me to appreciate the finer things in war. )IE: diplomacy, etiquette, and of course, spying.

thats my take

Utak

The Exchange

Our group's human Paladin wears heavy armor and the group's Dwarven fighter does also. The dwarf isn't penalized speed-wise so I think dwarves in general don't mind taking heavy armor.
The speed is a huge factor IMO, way moreso than the armor check penalty. Losing 1/3 of your combat mobility and ability to flee is a giant lose there should be a feat to remove the the speed penalty only, maybe something like Armor Affinity: Full plate, Armor Affinity: Banded etc. Prereqs: BAB +4, Mobility. Maybe it will remove the -10 speed but not change the Armor Check Penalty or adjustments to run speeds.

I would use heavy armor more if it wasn't such a crippler in combat movement. Also at higher levels the difference between protection from one type of armor to the next is not a big deal.
Chain Shirt +4ac light armor
Breastplate +5ac medium armor -10 speed
Fullplate +8ac Heavy armor -10 speed, can run at 3x move rate

either chain shirt is too powerful or the heavier armors are not given enough benefits to justify the penalties in their use.

just my 2

FH


Yeah, Chain Shirt is probably a bit too good.

What I've seen is that only the 'best' Medium and Heavy armours get used. So, I see lots of Breastplates and Full Plate armour, but none of any of the other armours of those types.

I can't say I've seen any shortage of characters using those armours, though. Perhaps because I use 25-point buy, which means that characters often find it hard to justify a very high Dex for a class that doesn't emphasise that attribute.

Liberty's Edge

Yep, this is as well common in my campaign.
No one wants heavy armor.

Presently the pcs of my players wear Bracers AC5 (he traded a +2 elven chain mail with SR13 vs those bracers) and the other wears no armor at all, saying that he is happy with his DEX 15 and his Sacred Vow (which gives him a +7 to AC presently).

I talked to other people and they said, that speed is more important to them than armor. This seems to be true with everyone I talk to...

The Exchange

I was in a party where none of us were stealthy, so being quiet didn't really matter. Our cleric clad himself in full plate; he was our tank. It was totally awesome! Of course, there was the time where we got attacked at night and he didn't have his armor on (he almost died).

But yea, I've never taken any heavy armor because I'm absolutely obsessed with high dexterity so I need armor with a high max dex. If it weren't for that, I'd totally create a character sometime that wore heavy armor, as long as it didn't burden the party.

Liberty's Edge

Do you guys think that just canceling the "MAX DEX ENTRY" in a armor description would help here? Just not using this value and allowing full Dex bonus no matter what kind of armor a pc wears?

The Exchange

Dryder wrote:

Do you guys think that just canceling the "MAX DEX ENTRY" in a armor description would help here? Just not using this value and allowing full Dex bonus no matter what kind of armor a pc wears?

I think the loss of 10 speed is what makes heavier armor unattractive, not so much the Max Dex. Very few classes have high dex and heavy armor proficiency, unless you go for the weapon finesse fighter type. IMO the speed loss is more important.

FH


Mobility seems to regulary trump medium or heavy armour selections in our group. Looking at the 6 straight fighters that have been played recently though, 5 of the 6 went for medium or heavy stuff. Of the 8 mages played, none selected any conventional armour (light/med/heavy). When judging whether or not med/heavy armour is used often, keep in mind some classes don't really weigh in on the issue!

J-


Fake Healer wrote:


I think the loss of 10 speed is what makes heavier armor unattractive, not so much the Max Dex.

Aye!


Dryder wrote:
Do you guys think that just canceling the "MAX DEX ENTRY" in a armor description would help here? Just not using this value and allowing full Dex bonus no matter what kind of armor a pc wears?

I wouldn't -- it conjures images of rogues running around in full plate. However, in practice, the speed decrease and proficiency requirement would seem to make heavy armour a poor choice for characters who don't normally use it!

I think the idea of max dex is not to keep rogues from wearing full plate, but rather, to stop fighters pumping up their dexterity and ending up unhittable in full plate. Max dex means you have to choose between a dextrous, lightly-armoured fighter and a slow, heavily-armoured fighter, which encourages strategic character design rather than pile-it-on play.

So I'd keep max dex as it is.


Did anyone see that show on the history channel a few years ago about historical arms and armor and it showed the guy in full plate mail doing somersaults? He was wearing historical armor and obviously had a high dex....

I really don't have a problem with the fact that no one likes medium or heavy armor, it's just that I'm a bit nostalgic to a time when the PCs fought over magical platemail in treasure hords like rabid chihuahuas tearing apart a piece of raw meat.

Now, it's a "sell off" item.

Liberty's Edge

I saw that show. Thing is, it seems to me a lot of dm's I've had experience with get their panties in a bunch when a fighter props with the plates. They've gotta "teach them a lesson" so next thing you know, it's rust monster time, or dunk in the ocean time, etc...etc...
And I had one dm make me shell out 2.5x price for the plate mail, and wait around the town for a month while it was custom made for me, then we got ran out of town and I got no plate, no money, nada. Gee that'll teach me to go around wanting plate mail.
Frankly, I feel it makes you a metagame subconscious karmic target for the dungeon master with plate mail inferiority complex. So any time I get wanna get plate mail, I first feel the dungeon master out about it, so I don't end up "taught a lesson in humbleness" for wanting plate mail.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Delericho wrote:


What I've seen is that only the 'best' Medium and Heavy armours get used. So, I see lots of Breastplates and Full Plate armour, but none of any of the other armours of those types.

Yup. We had a discussion about this last session when the players found a suit of +1 banded mail and didn't even bother discussing who would wear it because it wasn't as good as a standard breastplate. The only time I see the intermediate medium and heavy armors worn is at character creation/low levels when the PC can't afford the best armor in a particular category. I'm not sure what can be done to undifferentiate the middle armors.

As for light armors being too good, it might be worthwhile to chop down all the light armors by +1 AC (and eliminate the bottom rung armor - is it still padded?). That way there would be a bigger jump between light and medium armor.

Another option would be to treat the use of a shield and light armor as if the user is wearing medium armor for purposes of speed. Thus, if you had a heavy shield and a chain shirt, you would have your movement reduced as if you were wearing medium armor. I'm not sure if that really addresses the problem of making light armor too good or just nerfs the shield.


In 1e there was a table that differentiated the various weapons vs. the various armors. Chainmail did very little to protect you from blunt weapons, but was pretty decent against slashing weapons, leather wasn't much vs. piercing, etc....

Obviously, that was a bit cumbersome so it was largely ignored. I noticed that in Iron Heroes, armor is not given a "defense value" at all, just damage resistance.

I've been toying with giving medium armor DR 2/magic and heavy armor DR 3/magic just to make it a little more appealing, leaving all the other things like max dex and armor check penalty intact....thoughts?


I see this trend myself. Almost no one in my group uses anything heavier than a breastplate, and those they get made of mithril ASAP. It has as much to do with having to put the armor on and take it off again in long-term dungeon delves, coupled with worries about sudden, unexpected needs for mobility (swimming, running, climbing, sneaking, etc) that keeps my players from investing in heavy armor for their characters. The trade-off of mobility for AC just never seems to balance out for my bunch, so they almost always go about in light armor or, at best, medium armor made of mithril. The few who use shields immediately trade up for darkwood or mithril as well. The new breed of adventurers seems to shun the notion of being stuck in heavy armor, making lots of noise and moving about too slowly to take advantage of movement tactics. This would seem to be a somewhat unanticipated impact of the greater use of tactical movement tracking in the new editions.


Most of my early D20 characters were either rogue types or diplomat types. The one fighter I had was of a flying race and so couldn't wear heavy armor if he wanted to get of the ground. If I remember correctly he didn't wear armor at all, just a shield and a high dex. My latest Paladin character is the first character I have had that has worn heavy armor, if I remember correctly. He has a special mount though, so mobility hasn't been as big of a problem. The only other person in our party who used heavy armor was the ex-marshal. (ex as in he doesn't have an army anymore) He wore it more for its intimidating presence than anything though. I guess with the proper enchantments, medium armor can be just as good or better than heavy armor. Bracers of armor are pretty good in that regard as well.

Scarab Sages

In my group, we have two long term campaigns going. In the first one, we don't have anyone wearing anything heavier than a heavily enchanted mithral breastplate. In the other game, an Age of Worms game, we have a couple of Admantine body warforged (consider them to be wearing Admantine full-plate), but everyone else either doesn't wear armor or wears light armor. Also, you may want to take a look at some of the variant rules from Unearthed Arcana. We use the armor as damage reduction and the damage conversion rule. It's turned out very well actually and makes more people think twice about armor


My players don't seem to have any problem with heavy armor. Asside from the Wizard (who doesn't wear any) only the Rogue has a light armor.

Ultradan


Damn that sux Heathansson, I can't imagine a DM 'teaching a lesson' to plate mail users.

My attitude, and that of everyone I've played with, is that a character should wear the highest-AC armor that his/her class allows. Of course, I play with people who prefer rangers, barbs and druids over fighters and clerics. I myself prefer platemail girt fighters and clerics augmented by shields, but I'm obsessed with high ACs. I've never considered reduced mobility to be a big problem for a tank character. It is iritating sometimes for a cleric who wants to heal a companion but can only move 20, but that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make for the BBG missing me on a natural 10 rather than a 6.

I recently revamped armor so that all light is +2 AC, medium is +4 and heavy is +6. All armor has DR from 1-4 based on its material. I took away max Dex but added in Str requirements for each.


As a DM, I don't look at any of the rules for D&D as being rules. They are suggestions. What you could try for some variety is consider the armor in the PH to be the norm; what you could get from say, a journeyman armorsmith. Different MASTER armorsmiths in your world could be capable of creating armor unique for a specific character. Perhaps there is a great elven craftsman capable of creating full plate with it's weight so well distributed that a character wouldn't suffer any movement loss from it, or a dwarven armorer whose work is made for those expected to be clamboring around underground and is fitted so as not to hinder the wearer as much (lower armor check penalty). Of course, these armors should be made of fantastic materials, and the smiths probably won't make them for just anyone. The master dwarf armorsmith isn't going to make a suit of armor from the block of mithril that's been passed through his family for gererations just because the characters have lots of money to pay. I've found it provides good role-playing opportunities and gets my players into the game more. If they're a little overpowered after that, so what. I made them work for it and besides, it's a game.


My players enjoy using heavy armour for their fighters and clerics. I think it's an image thing. :)

Or maybe it's because I like catching them flatfooted. That AC just drops like a stone when light armoured folk lose their Dex bonus. Heh heh... :D


Green Ronin's 'Plot & Poison' offers a feat called Armor Mastery. The feat reduces the armor check penalties for a specific type of armor.

Not a perfect fix, but it's something.

Perhaps Armor Focus/Specialization could be offered as feats? They could reduce the mobility penalties and lessen armor check penalties while increasing the Max Dex.

Such feats might not eliminate all the penalties, but if it were to reduce them, heavy armor might be a more attractive option.


In my Age of Worms campaign we have a high amount of spellcasters and spellcasterish types (warlock, psions), so you don't see much in the way of armor. The two melee combatants we have are a hexblade and swashbuckler, so none there either. This coupled with the fact that most of my players are familiar with Gird the Warrior (spell from the Complete Book of Eldritch might that gives a plus 10 armor bonus and a plus 4 enchantment bonus to hit and damage) I doubt I'll be seeing much armor later in the game either.

Personaly, ever sense I started getting used to third edition I've always seen physical armor as little more than something to enchant to get the real bonuses. With deflection bonuses, enchantment bonuses, buffing spells, and damage reduction, the plus 8 to armor class that a good suit of heavy armor gives isn't anywhere near worth it when you factor in speed penalties and max dex.

One thing I'm looking into is getting rid of the speed penalty for medium armor, and reducing heavy to only minus 10, then possibly switching to some form of armor as damage reduction, though I haven't seen a rule set that I'm happy with.


The first thing people must consider when looking at the dirge of characters wearing medium and heavy armor is the classes that exist in the game. Lets run through the basic ones:

1. Barbarian (can wear medium or heavy armor, but cannot use his move bonus in armor heavier than light)

2. Bard (does'nt get proficiency in armor heavier than light and needs to worry about arcane spell failure)

3. Cleric (no problem with heavy armor)

4. Druid (can't wear any metal armor)

5. Fighter (no problem)

6. Monk (nuff said!)

7. Paladin (no problem)

8. ranger (can wear heavy or medium armor, but his abilities suffer in most medium or heavy armor)

9. Rogue (doesn't get proficiency in medium or heavy armor. Abilities suffer from wearing it)

10. Sorcerer and Wizard (no proficiency in armor, arcane spell failure)

Most of the new classes have this problem as well. In fact, only the marshal and knight have no problem with heavy armor and the knight actually benefits from wearing it at higher levels)

Everyone has already talked about speed reduction and not being able to use Dex. Fortunately the options for PCs to overcome this are tremendous. There are enough feats, magic items, and special materials out there to make heavy armor very attractive. Also, people are so concerned with speed and mobility that they fail to notice the number of times this is not an issue in the game. While its true that PCs in plate armor in my campaign have had trouble chasing down foes or running away from foes, just as many times this has not proved a problem, particularly in an underground environments where there is little space.

I think the sort of campaign DMs run and the rules they implement can heavily influence what armor people wear. Damage reduction for armor certainly helps (especially coupled with adamantine armor) as can lighter materials like dragonhide and mithril. Having attacks that work better against unarmored foes also makes people think twice about wearing no armor or light armor.


Ultradan wrote:

My players don't seem to have any problem with heavy armor. Asside from the Wizard (who doesn't wear any) only the Rogue has a light armor.

Ultradan

I'm in a similar boat. Fair number of players going for the heavy armour. In fact the player playing the Dwarf Fighter/Rogue meanders about in full plate. You'd think that this would really put a damper on his rogue skills but it does not seem to effect the ones he cares about. Mainly he seems to want to use magic devices, open locks and find traps - the player claims that he feels a lot safer trying to disable nasty traps decked out in full plate.


Thanks for some good ideas. A while back, I house ruled an advanced armor proficiency feat (prereq: 2 ranks armorer and normal proficiency with that type of armor) that allowed PCs to customize their own armor to reduce armor check penalties and gain some DR, but no one at my gaming table glanced at it twice.

I'm thinking that perhaps a combination of DR and/or the reduction of critical hits (x2 becomes +2 damage, x3 becomes x2, etc) vs. the wearers of heavier armor might do the trick to balance out the armor equation.

Historically, heavy well made armor was highly desired and considered essential for survival on the battlefield. It was the chief thing keeping nobles in power over the unarmored masses for many centuries, so I think the standard D&D rules should be tweaked a bit to make the armor more effective and therefore potentially more attractive to players.


Fake Healer wrote:
Dryder wrote:


I think the loss of 10 speed is what makes heavier armor unattractive, ... IMO the speed loss is more important.

FH

I thought about the move limitations and almost skipped the heavy armor on account of it. Then I realized we always have a halfling, dwarf, or gnome so it was not a big deal. I was not slowing the party down, and I did not want to reach the big baddies alone. If I need the heavier armor 'gainst a foe, I plan to bring someone with me *grin*. You can throw more flat-footed attacks at them though, that may balance the armor out (or at least your party's perceptions of it.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Like everyone has been saying the speed reduction and limited Dex mod to add to AC is a big negative to heavy armor. Though I'm surprised so many people seem to refuse to use it. We had a paladin in one of our games that was actually using full plate. It was mithral, which I guess makes is medium armor rather than heavy. It still had a speed redutcion, but she solved that with a pair of boots of striding and springing. I'm surprised more people don't utilize armor made out of mithral. After all, mithral full plate allows a dex of +3, though it still has a check penalty of -4. We play in the Forgotten Realms, and in the Magic of Faerun book, there is an armor special ability called nimbleness that increases the dex allowance by +2 and reduced the check penatly by 1. So nimbled mithral full plate would allow a dex of +5 and only have a check of -3. With boots of striding and springing (or something else that increases your movement speed by 10), you'd be moving at the normal 30 ft. per round, and have a kick @$$ suit of full plate. Or if you're really that concerned with movement speed, just play a dwarf.


Sel Carim wrote:
The only other person in our party who used heavy armor was the ex-marshal. (ex as in he doesn't have an army anymore) He wore it more for its intimidating presence than anything though.

That was my character, he’s a wizard/marshal. He wore full plate constantly on the battle field. He wore it for several reasons. The first, as mentioned, was for intimidation value. The second is that it let him go to the hottest part of the battle to lead his men and not worry to much about being stabbed. His armor was made out of a magic material (out of the equipment guide) that reduced arcane spell failure by 20. Unfortunately this doubled the weight of the armor. He had to use items to up his strength while he was wearing it. Even though different armor would probably have been better numerically, this guy wearing full plate just made more sense for the character and his personality.

Also we have tried turning AC bonus into damage reduction and it seems to work very well. Magic full plate is very appealing when it lobs 8 off any damage taken. It becomes even more appealing when enchanted. This makes an armor wearer quite the tank. It also makes more sense to us to do things this way. Although I like the idea of adding armor modding since in the age of not having assembly lines, no two suits of armor would be exactly alike.


I think a big part of the issue is literature.
Very few heros in current fantasy lore gear up in heavy armor. And the art usually shows only improbable pieces of armor. Thus the image of the quick lighly armored or non-armored hero are strongly reinforced.

I think this more than the mechanical issues is a big part of it.

Armor also has a lot of downsides if you try to roll play it. Say you're a tank with heavy armor. Do you wear it all of the time? When you're in town do you wher it to dinner or the pub, when you sleep on the road, if you ambushed at night do you put it on before you enter the fray, do you maintain it, etc. Heavy equipment is a pain - and its equipment - there is for many gamers myself included - I want to paly a character that relies on himself, his abilties not the gear - don't get me wrong gear is fun, but I don't want it to define me, and I want gear that I can use all them time, in town, dungeon, forest, etc. Heavy armor is (with its movement, spellcasting, and check penalties, dex bonus limitations and wieght (for those of us who try to take encumbrance seriously) a tool for a specific kind of battle.

That said I don't think it is an unreslvable issue. First heavy armor is great for some characters without modification.

But new materials could help - (mithril and adamant seem a limited selection of useful materials)
New magics - Torc of Armor manifestation a suit of X armor manifests when a command word is spoken.
Armor of the Herald Knight - effectively weightless always shiny, no dex bonus limitations.

Feats that allow you to eliminate dex modifiers limits, and movement penalties - or even improve the effectiveness of armor through mastery of how to use it to effect.

All of these could be added to make armor REALLY popular again.

I feel a query coming on.


farewell2kings wrote:

I've noticed that in all of the 3 D&D campaigns I run or play in, there is only one character (seventeen total) that wears heavy armor. No one wants those armor check penalties and speed reduction.

Is this a common phenomenon? Could it be that just about everyone that I game with is obsessed with high dexterity scores? It really came to my attention when the party found a suit of +3 plate armor recently and no one wanted it. It doesn't help that there's only one true fighter and one true cleric among the bunch--everyone else is a barbarian/ranger/rogue something or other.

Has your experience with this differed or been the same or have you not noticed this?

Since I switched to 3.x Ed, players at my table always try to get the heavier armour they can. I have the same reflex when I'm playing myself.

Right now, we're currently going through the Shackled City AP and everyone except the scout and the wizard is wearing medium or heavy armor. The figther/hexblabe/kensai is in mundane full plate, the cleric wears a +1 spiked full plate, the ranger/paladin/knight of the chalice wears a +1 breastplate. That's logical because it is more interesting to have a high AC rather than hp. And high saves rather than high AC. Tank fighters need to hold the line and do not need that much movement. Being stealthy is not that important if you have a good scout or divination magic. And fighter types don't have access to many Dex skills except Riding for which armour penalty doesn't count. Many combats start with a round of surprise and if you lose initiative you could be hit twice or more being flafooted before you could even reply. All in all, I understand why they are so fond of heavy armor. They just got two sets of mithral +1 full plate from Zenith and the kuo-toa high priest (Mang Minctho) and I think they will use them once they are tailored for them (a few months work). The Rgr/Pal/KoC will be able to use its full dex bonus (+2) and will certainly ask for one.

Bran.


My friends and I never had a problem trying to get the best types of armour for our characters. WE never really looked at the speed and mobility issues. If I am a paladin I am not going to want to run away quickly. All our fighters regardless of their dexterity always tried to get the biggest piece of hardware they could get.
My most recent character was a cleric and his ac was through the roof, because of his full plate and large shield. I didn't care if i was slow. But i can also see the idea of how the character is.

later
A>

The Exchange

Bran wrote:

I think they will use them once they are tailored for them (a few months work). The Rgr/Pal/KoC will be able to use its full dex bonus (+2) and will certainly ask for one.

Bran.

Why would it take a few months work to refit a suit of plate. I always saw people adjusting straps and buckles to refit it to their body type? Are they from a large or small creature? If not I think a DM is trying to make people do needless hurdle-jumping in order to use a treasure that they handed out. Any fighter-type should know how to adjust the fit of armor and it shouldn't take months to adjust, you aren't reforging the stuff.

I love hearing about DMs who don't have an understanding of something that impose ridiculous restrictions on their players, its treasure, give it to them already. A few months in a time-sensitive campaign like Shackled City makes those items useless and obsolete by the time they can be used.

just my 2
FH


Consider that the same move away from heavy armour occurred in history when guns became more commonplace, so that being slowed down by your armour became a greater problem than the added protection the armour gave. You're seeing a similar move in your games for similar reasons. Perhaps this is movement is taking hold in your world and should be reflected as such, with armoursmiths going out of business, knights decreasing in power as the nation becomes more solidly held by a single king, crossbows becoming more commonplace and perhaps even guns coming into use.


i have not encountered this problem, in my weekly game two of the three characters currently use heavy armor, the one who doesn't is a wizard. perhaps it is because I enforced a point buy system when the characters were made, and the people had to chose between a high Dex and high scores in stats that helped thier classes... (Although my point-buy is a generous 30)


One of the rules of the 1st Ed. game Players Handbook I enjoyed was the bonus that plate armor granted from blunt weapons, and chainmail granted from edged weapons. I think it added a realistic component to the game.
I increase the base AC of half-plate by 2 and full plate by 4. I also give half-plate a DR 1/-, and Full Plate a DR 2/-. These can be increased with Adamantine armor. I agree that their needs to be perks for paying the money and acquiring heavy armor, and the loss of mobility that it necessarily creates.


Well my group has gone through a huge amount of diverse armors in our days. My latest cleric is clomping around in Full Plate and a nice Tower Sheild. My last Orc barbarian was a Were-bear and there was no chance i was putting a bear in armor, My groups has gone through many armors, many of them being on thew run loot what you need not alot of choice armors but it works to keep everyone out of the same thing.


The prevalence of chain shirts can cause medium/heavy to get ignored, but not always. It depends on how the melee guys work, too. If they are quick or graceful, it makes sense. I think another reason they get ignored is that alot of good feats require Dex 13, so peeps don't want to invest in Dex just to lose the bonus.

I personally love to play a guy who moves slow but hammers the hell out of people. I always find a way to get to the heavy armor when I am playing melee or a cleric. I'll take a minor hit on movement to get the hellacious defense bonus.

I think this problem, though can be fixed a number of ways.

The most obvious would be hitting higher ACs. If a fighter has to go for it, he has ot go for it.

Another problem might be the way PCs get stats. If there is a lot of rollign or points available, melee guys can put more into dex. When the stats are more limited, they have to focus on Str or Con, and dex suffers.

You can also offer up magic medium or heavy armor. That is incentive to wear it.


I don't know, in my campaign, obviously the druid/rogue, sorcerer, barbarian, and monk had no use for heavy armor, but the dwarven fighter and human cleric couldn't wait to get the stuff. I did make them wait to have full plate custom made, but I let them have half plate without much hassle.

Of course, the first time they ran into a rust monster, they shoved their poor dwarven ranger friend with a chain shirt in front of them to save their multiple thousand gold peice investment, placating him with promises of treasure to compensate him.

In the new campaign we are starting up, the psychic warrior is loading up on armor, because she doesn't have a decent dexterity to speak of. Rarely does anyone worry TOO much about movement penalties, because the people that move the slowest are the ones that should be protecting the unarmored party members as they retreat to a safe position anyway . . .

But thats just how it works in my campaigns thus far . . .

Liberty's Edge

How HYOO-miliatin'--rust monster bait. Now I heard it all.


Its always amusing to see stalwart clerics and fighters that willinly go toe to toe with giants and dragons cower in fear behind a hireling when an overgrown metal eating bug wanders into the room . . .


KnightErrantJR wrote:
Its always amusing to see stalwart clerics and fighters that willinly go toe to toe with giants and dragons cower in fear behind a hireling when an overgrown metal eating bug wanders into the room . . .

...and they run like little sissies saying "Not the platemail!!"


Ah . . . good times . . . to be a DM is to touch the heart of cruelty and know that it is good . . .


In my groups, we have an even mix. Not everyone wants the light armor...not even the mage :)

That's what happens with an Orc Warmage 9/Blackguard 2 in Adamantine Full Plate. (in my games, I switched out the Advanced Learning for a Cleric's BAB, it just made a little more sense to me this way)


Jonathan Drain wrote:
Consider that the same move away from heavy armour occurred in history when guns became more commonplace, so that being slowed down by your armour became a greater problem than the added protection the armour gave.

Actually, it was the fact that heavy armor didn't stop bullets (or cannonfire, for that matter) that phased it out of use, not mobility issues. Why wear protective gear that no longer protects?

Instead of a max Dex quality, a Dex penalty worked fine in one campaign I played, while allowing half a character's Str bonus to increase the max Dex worked well in another. An idea I'm playing with for my next campaign is a combination of the Dex penalty (for all types) and a bit of DR (for the medium and heavy stuff).


One of our players ran into the Rust Monster issue. Poor guy /just/ blew a bunch of cash on some shiny new plate mail, and the very next adventure the DM threw a rust monster into the mix.

Obviously, the plate mail went poof.

The player/character was so peeved that he adamantly insisted that he kill the thing all by himself. So we all got a good laugh while he tried to bludgeon the thing to death with, eventually, his bare fists.


Xellan wrote:
The player/character was so peeved that he adamantly insisted that he kill the thing all by himself. So we all got a good laugh while he tried to bludgeon the thing to death with, eventually, his bare fists.

I bet it was awfully satisfying, though. "Die, you miserable piece of metal-eating BASTAAAAAAAAARD!!!"


I should point out an interesting piece of imagery: Dwarves can use Tumble in full plate. No one else, just dwarves. (granted, I didn't know about that "no tumbling if your speed's reduced" rule until a couple of days ago, so I'm used to thinking about characters in heavy armor leaping around - I've got a 13th level Paladin who has a net +4 to tumble in adamantine full plate. Once the game he's in gets started back up again, I'm going to have to discuss things with my DM.)


Speaking of that paladin, he had an experience with a rust monster shortly after aquiring said suit of tank-mail.

Now, I usually pride myself on not using out-of-character knowledge and just reacting to things the way my character should. But... I had just spent all the money I had, and the rest of the party had chipped in as well, to buy this tasty rust-snack.

Even though my character likely didn't know what that strange creature bearing down on him was capable of, he uncharacteristically stepped to the back of the group and pulled out his longbow - which he hadn't used at all previous to this encounter (except once I think, when he was blinded - but that may have happened later).

I still feel slightly shameful of this deed, but given the opportunity again, I can't say I wouldn't react in the same manner - rust monsters are just a mean thing to throw at the party.

TK

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