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Evil PCs?


Age of Worms Adventure Path


Hey Everyone,
I am about to start AoW and after talking with my players they asked me if they could run evil characters. I would like to say yes, but im not quite sure how that would affect the campaign and any hooks to keep the campaign running. So i was woundering if i could get some advice on whether they should be alowed, and if so what should be changed. Thanks in advance for any advice!


It should not be a problem, per se. However, some abilities that evil PrClasses get like "Smite Good" and items like "Unholy" weapons will be nigh worthless b/c virtually all the adversaries are evil. You might want to swap these out to something more useful, e.g. "Smite Good" --> "Smite Infidel"

Also, make sure there is a strong basis for keeping the party together. Evil parties tend to be selfish and may go their separate ways or (even worse) turn on each others.

It would be better to stick with LE (perhaps NE) characters that are sanctioned by a powerful evil organization. This should help them stick togethr and give the group focus.

Liberty's Edge

I don't want to argue, or anything, but for an evil crew, what's their motivation? I mean, why don't they just join in on the fun of it all and sell out to the 'bad side?' If they can answer that question to your satisfaction, then maybe, yes, go for it. In the real world, evil has been known to work in groups before, for a common goal. Often, though, the whole thing all falls apart in the end. If that's what everyone wants to explore, then so be it.

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Heathansson wrote:
I don't want to argue, or anything, but for an evil crew, what's their motivation? I mean, why don't they just join in on the fun of it all and sell out to the 'bad side?' If they can answer that question to your satisfaction, then maybe, yes, go for it. In the real world, evil has been known to work in groups before, for a common goal. Often, though, the whole thing all falls apart in the end. If that's what everyone wants to explore, then so be it.

the simple fact that they have to live in that world too should be enough of a motivation for evil PCs. consider this... if they want to live in a world where everyone is undead and under the control of a mad demi-diety then they shouldn't play the AoW. even more to the point, if they think they can handle being chased constantly by people who know that they (the PCs) could have done something to prevent the AoW from happening and did nothing (word like this tends to spread pretty quickly), well they can kiss their little patooties good bye.

some of my players are evil, so i have to drill this point home whenever they ask "why they are going through all of this?" because of the alternative....


Make sure that the party leader is a Hextor cleric. After he gets wind of the Ebon Triad he should have all the motivation he needs to pursue the campaign, if just to punish the infidels. It would also help if you create some sort of connection between all the characters, for example some of them could be related, siblings, cousins or something like that. Furthermore the party alignment should probably lean toward LE.


Check out Marc Chins "Evil variant SCAP campaign journal on this message board, on setting up an evil campaign for an AP. Well worth a look at.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Consider replacing Tenser with Mordenkainen. At least Mordenkainen will deal with evil characters.


Yeah, any devout followers of Vecna, Erythnul, or Hextor has enough of a reason to follow the AP: Thwart the Ebon Triad and show everyone that their worship is false.

Money and power are motivators to good, neutral, and evil characters alike.

Liberty's Edge

Blayde MacRonan wrote:


the simple fact that they have to live in that world too should be enough of a motivation for evil PCs. consider this... if they want to live in a world where everyone is undead and under the control of a mad demi-diety then they shouldn't play the AoW. even more to the point, if they think they can handle being chased constantly by people who know that they (the PCs) could have done something to prevent the AoW from happening and did nothing (word like this tends to spread pretty quickly), well they can kiss their little patooties good bye.

some of my players are evil, so i have to drill this point home whenever they ask "why they are going through all of this?" because of the alternative....

Dude, you're preaching to the choir. I know that, you know that; if the characters think that way it's all kopacetic.

All I know is that if I was an evil player, there'd be a lot of temptation to go over to the other side if the price was right. If I get MY big gothic castle and MY own kingdom, MY MY MY, Mr. Kyuss, watcha need, boss?


Personally, I don't believe anyone who plays an evil PC or who runs and evil campaign has any real idea how to do it properly. Unless you're a hateful, greedy, back-stabbing, ignorant, or fanatically evil person yourself, you have no concept. And if you are one of those people, you're giving the game a bad name (and who would want to play with someone like that anyway?).

Forget about what motivates a PC. What motivates a player to run an evil PC? Of course, the adolescent, newbie reason is so that he/she (typically he) can rape, murder, lie, and steal from whoever and not have to suffer the "shackles" of a good alignment.

What other reason could there possibly be? "Because it's interesting and compelling to take on the role of an evil PC." Fine, but just so you know that a TRULY evil person is motivated by only two things: fear of the consequences and greed. There is no desire to right the wrongs of the world, there is no desire to risk one's life to save a loved one... None of that. If any of that exists in an evil campaign... Well, that's not an evil campaign. Only the desire to attain wealth and power and avoid the authorities would remain, and who wants to play in a campaign like that, where every man is ultimately out for themselves, and everyone must watch each other to avoid backstabbing and treachery?

Sounds like a big mess waiting to happen, especially when you have PCs fighting amongst themselves (which SHOULD inevitably happen when wealth and power are attained on some level). PCs fighting amongst themselves will eventually lead to PLAYERS fighting amongst themselves, and that's the last thing any decent DM wants at his/her table.

That's not a campaign I want to play in. An evil campaign SHOULD eventually have a meltdown. Evil PCs don't love each other, won't risk their lives to save another, won't make sacrifices so a fellow PC can excel... If any of that exists in your "evil" campaign, then your campaign isn't really evil at all.


Evil has some advantages, and drawbacks.
As I said on another topic, if a blackguard dies,
his diety might turn him directly into a death knight.
After some player realizes evil characters have the lifespan
of a fruitfly the appeal dissapears.


Crust...
have a look at what you are saying- backstabbing, lust for power and wealth. Those are evil. Maybe not vile. Perhaps the character is totaly twisted- has personal sex-zombie follow him/her round for 24/7 gratification. OR maybe they just value gold over life. Both evil.
Do you have to be "TRULY" evil to have LE or even CE on a character sheet.. I don't think so. In fact Champions of Ruin has a feat for those who think they are good and sometimes detect as neutral but are actualy evil and quite deluded.
You're just getting annoyed at people who don't want to go "all the way" on your vision of evil. Saying "well if you're going to steal that then obviously you would murder these other folks".
I reckon that is flawed. Now I agree that some people use evil on their character sheet for justification of petty actions. But some people use LG for justifying annoying anti-group decisions.
My solution- sit them all down and say- you guys sort out amongst yourselves why you are adventuring together. IF they can't make a cohesive group, irrespective of alignments you will have problems getting them to all go in 1 direction.
Evil just makes it more likely to end in tears rather than boredom..


Kostchtchie wrote:

Crust...

have a look at what you are saying- backstabbing, lust for power and wealth. Those are evil. Maybe not vile. Perhaps the character is totaly twisted- has personal sex-zombie follow him/her round for 24/7 gratification. OR maybe they just value gold over life. Both evil.
Do you have to be "TRULY" evil to have LE or even CE on a character sheet.. I don't think so. In fact Champions of Ruin has a feat for those who think they are good and sometimes detect as neutral but are actualy evil and quite deluded.
You're just getting annoyed at people who don't want to go "all the way" on your vision of evil. Saying "well if you're going to steal that then obviously you would murder these other folks".
I reckon that is flawed. Now I agree that some people use evil on their character sheet for justification of petty actions. But some people use LG for justifying annoying anti-group decisions.
My solution- sit them all down and say- you guys sort out amongst yourselves why you are adventuring together. IF they can't make a cohesive group, irrespective of alignments you will have problems getting them to all go in 1 direction.
Evil just makes it more likely to end in tears rather than boredom..

i've played evil characters before, one of whom was a twisted half fiend with a passion for knives (and using them on anybody and everybody), but as has been said before, these types of characters can be fun to play but they are ultimately short term!... unless, as a DM, you can hook a particular character into the campaign. just because a character has an evil alignment it doesn't necessarily follow that they wont follow the plot. in the upcoming AP3 both of my fellow gamers have decided that they want to play necromancers... this might cause a few problems but i am sure i can manage to get around things and hook them both into the campaign.

a good DM should be able to hook in and adapt any adventure to suit the PC's while still retaining the flavour of the AP. Diamond lake is the perfect example of where evil characters have the ability to thrive before moving on to the free city itself where even more opportunities await those with the drive to acheive them.

remember evil characters should not be above doing good deeds if it serves their ultimate purpose

Kendrik


And conversely, an evil character can perform evil acts with a good goal in mind, as opposed to the good acts with an evil goal in mind (speaking to the addage that the road paved to hell is with good intentions...)


I’ve Got Reach wrote:

And conversely, an evil character can perform evil acts with a good goal in mind, as opposed to the good acts with an evil goal in mind (speaking to the addage that the road paved to hell is with good intentions...)

to use that immortal tag line from goonies "that's what i said!"

Kendric


Was "Sloth" a Goliath?


I’ve Got Reach wrote:
Was "Sloth" a Goliath?

uh huh, a swashbuckler/dread pirate goliath!

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