In my own news, finished Queen of Thorns last night and posted my review. Moving on to King of Chaos.
By the time I finish that, the latest book in the October Daye series by Seanan McGuire, The Winter Long, should be out so I'll be moving on to that, followed by going back to the Pathfinder Tales with The Crusader Road.
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Just started Anathem. I found a hardback copy in a used book store today (as well as a copy of Saturn's Children with the British cover ^_^) and decided to reread it because for the life of me I cannot remember anything but slivers of its story.
Can anyone recommend any fantasy where the protagonist isn't a very special snowflake? I've been having trouble finding stuff that doesn't engage in Great Man fiction.
Not exactly a fantasy, but you might want to check out TALES OF THE KETTY JAY, aka STEAMPUNK BUTTERFLY. Not about special snowflakes at all, and it actually feels at times like the author goes a little bit too far with making his characters convincingly outlaws.
For more fantasy but less action, check out Robin Hobb's wonderful THE LIVESHIP TRADERS, that has several characters, most of them regular people in fantastic situations.
Do not, under any circumstances, read THE NAME OF THE WIND.
For non-special snowflakes, I'd recommend Juliet E. McKenna's books set in Einarrin, Ellen Kushner's three Riverside novels (Swordspoint, The Privilege of the Sword, and The Fall of the Kings).
While Django Wexler's series The Shadow Campaigns does have its fair share of snowflakes, the point-of-view character are mostly just protagonist-special.
Anf, of course, a lot of D&D and Pathfinder tie-in fiction feature characters that's low-to-middle in power and specialness (although less so in later books wit recurring characters, obviously) - for some utterly mundane characters involved in good stories I'd start by looking at Rosemary Jones's Forgotten Realms novels.
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My girlfriend keeps suggesting it. I keep saying no. I'll check the other two out!
Do not, under any circumstances, read THE NAME OF THE WIND.
I can certainly see where she's coming for - I tend to think of "The Name of the Wind" as the best incarnation of the Mery Su (is it Gery Su for a boy or something?) I have ever seen. Character is unabashedly the specialist of snowflakes in the universe, but the book is so fun that I didn't really mind. Sounds like you are more agitated by that kind of thing than I am, though. Also, the second book in the series was a dramatic decrease in quality...
I can certainly see where she's coming for - I tend to think of "The Name of the Wind" as the best incarnation of the Mery Su (is it Gery Su for a boy or something?) I have ever seen. Character is unabashedly the specialist of snowflakes in the universe, but the book is so fun that I didn't really mind. Sounds like you are more agitated by that kind of thing than I am, though. Also, the second book in the series was a dramatic decrease in quality...My girlfriend keeps suggesting it. I keep saying no. I'll check the other two out!
Do not, under any circumstances, read THE NAME OF THE WIND.
I've always heard the male version as Gary Stu.
Yeah, Kvothe is indeed the most special of snowflakes. Haven't read the sequel yet though.
Finished The Republic of Thieves. Final thoughts? Eh. It was good, but it wasn't as good as the first two books. It felt like it took even longer than they did to get into the meat of it, and it never reached the height of excitement and consequence that the first two did. The games between Locke and Sabetha were fun, and the flashbacks were interesting as well, but on the whole it just felt like it left things back at the status quo. For those wondering what exactly I'm referring to with the status quo comment, I'll put it in spoilers. I'll talk about some of my specific disappointments there as well. There will be actual spoilers for those who haven't read the books.
- The Lies of Locke Lamora - Ends with Jean fit and healthy, Locke nearly dead. They have barely anything to their names, and have to flee the city. It's just them against the world
- Red Seas Under Red Skies - Jean fit and healthy (admittedly having suffered a grave loss, but physically fine). Locke isn't nearly dead this time, but is poisoned and doomed to a slow death. Once again they have nothing, and have fled the city they were working in.
- The Republic of Thieves - Jean fit and healthy, Locke is also healthy for once, but has taken some severe emotional beatings and has had his entire understanding of who he is torn apart. Everything they had was taken away again, and they're once again fleeing the city. Once again, it's also just them, because apparently neither of them can have a relationship.
Anyone else seeing a pattern here?
On to specific things that made it a more disappointing novel for me... It felt like the introduction of Sabetha was a bit of a wasted opportunity. She shows up, she toys with Locke and Jean, and is toyed with in turn... then she leaves. After the way they built up to her appearance, it felt anti-climactic. I've seen someone commenting that they felt it made sense, because she couldn't live up to Locke's
As for the stakes in the games they play, well, just compare the games of the first two books. The Lies of Locke Lamora has them caught between the Grey King, Capa Barsavi and the Duke's Spider. Everyone wants them dead or captured, except for Barsavi, who WILL want them dead if he finds out what they're up to. Red Seas Under Red Skies has them trying to rob the most dangerous man in Tel Verrar, Requin. While trying to pull this job, they've got Bondsmagi sabotaging them by convincing influential men to send assassin's after them; advising the Archon of Tel Verrar of their presence, leading to him poisoning them and blackmailing them into going to try and entice a bunch of pirates to attack the city for his own purposes; and then having to deal with the actual realities of life at sea as pirates... The Republic of Thieves gives us a game of political maneuvering against one of their own, Sabetha, who has the advantage in that Locke is entirely stupid when it comes to her. Okay, so both sides are being backed by opposing factions of Karthani Bondsmagi, but they've also agreed to non-interference. The stakes this time aren't life threatening, at least not immediately... win the election and they're told they'll have protection from their bondsmage patron and be provided with wealth. Lose, and they get nothing, but are free to walk away (though no one will stop the opposing bondsmagi from coming after them later). There's no true danger, because one of the rules set down for the contest is that lethal tactics aren't allowed. The biggest threat in the whole book (excluding the flashbacks) is that if Locke and Sabetha try to work together in some way, they will be killed. Given that they both are content to oppose each other, it's not really a risk. Compared to the first two stories, it just feels like it's lacking something.
Now none of that is to say that I didn't enjoy it. I did. It was fun. But it didn't grab me the same way the others did. What does give me hope for the next four books is the final stinger in the epilogue, which reintroduces a character that I'm looking forward to hearing more about.
I'm about to start catching up on the last few years worth of Christopher Brookmyre novels, I think Pandaemonium was the last one I read, so I've got 4 to go. Unfortunately it looks like he's abandoned Jack Parlabane as a protagonist, and has started more thriller style novels as well as branching into sci-fi/fantasy (he did a bit of that with Pandaemonium, I thought it was just going to be a one off thing, but at least one of the new novels is straight up sci-fi). Everything I've heard also tells me he's dropped the satirical nature and dark and twisted humour as well, which was the primary reason I read his novels, since I'm not big on straight forward crime fiction. This may be the death knell of my love of his work, but we'll see what happens.
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I can certainly see where she's coming for - I tend to think of "The Name of the Wind" as the best incarnation of the Mery Su (is it Gery Su for a boy or something?) I have ever seen. Character is unabashedly the specialist of snowflakes in the universe, but the book is so fun that I didn't really mind. Sounds like you are more agitated by that kind of thing than I am, though. Also, the second book in the series was a dramatic decrease in quality...My girlfriend keeps suggesting it. I keep saying no. I'll check the other two out!
Do not, under any circumstances, read THE NAME OF THE WIND.I've always heard the male version as Gary Stu.
Yeah, Kvothe is indeed the most special of snowflakes. Haven't read the sequel yet though.
I really liked The Name of the Wind, but the next in the series really is a mess. The whole thing feels like the love child of George R. Martin and J.K. Rowling. Some great potential there, but really wanders all over the place.
I really liked The Name of the Wind, but the next in the series really is a mess. The whole thing feels like the love child of George R. Martin and J.K. Rowling. Some great potential there, but really wanders all over the place.
The way one of my friends described it: "It feels like someone writing fan fiction about Kvothe, like they've taken what he was like in the first story and just turned it up to 11"
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Can anyone recommend any fantasy where the protagonist isn't a very special snowflake? I've been having trouble finding stuff that doesn't engage in Great Man fiction.
So, when's the next Kvothe book supposed to come out? Sometime after the last volume of A Song of Fire and Ice?
In the meantime, I started The History of Mary Prince, A West Indian Slave because I like happy, light-hearted books.
Read the lyrics to John Brown's Body today. Much better than the generic religious war song based on the same tune.
I like all three versions.
[Clenches fist]
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Including the 'Glory, Glory Hallelujah, Teacher hit me with a ruler' variation, or the 'They rubbed him up with camphorated oil, camphor-amphor-amphorated' one?
I read Marriage and Love by Emma Goldman this week, and have started on the Satyricon, in which two polysexual Romans go around stealing stuff. 'Salright, I suppose.
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I picked up The Soprano Sorceress by L.E. Modesitt Jr. from the .50c pile at the library sale. It isn't bad, but it ain't good either.
Things I like so far: fairly realistic portrayal of professional singers and their personalities that are shaped by their singing. Dang it, I KNOW these people! (except if they had magic...it would scare the ship out of me)
Things I don't like: having to take the "stolen-from-earth" genre for what it is and the disconnect between the "naturalistic" fiction of the protagonist's "Earth" in contrast to the fantasy world. Even with Robert E. Howard (John Carter) or Mark Twain (Connecticut Yankee) I've yet to see it done in a way that doesn't make me work really hard to suspend my disbelief. Excepted for Francis Stevens' The Heads of Cerberus who makes it work because it is just too gonzo, like a trippy episode of "Sliders."
Pet Peeve: It's "I couldn't care less." COULDN'T! grumbles about writers and lazy editors.
I read Marriage and Love by Emma Goldman this week,
Goin' all stream-of-consciousness, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, who probably rubbed shoulders with Emma back in the day, but I can't be sure, was once asked by a bourgeois journalist whether she believed in "Free Love" to which she replied, "As opposed to what? Slave love?"
Goblins do it in the streets!
I am still anticipating/hoping for a last-minute Joe Abercrombie/Henry James-style big reveal that Kvothe is really a lying, self-serving asshat and all the accusations of Gary-Stu-ing will turn out, instead, to be unreliable-narrator-dom.
I mean, the guy's an English grad student, isn't he? If he's just a hopped-up fanfic writer, I'm gonna be a little disappointed.
I am still anticipating/hoping for a last-minute Joe Abercrombie/Henry James-style big reveal that Kvothe is really a lying, self-serving asshat and all the accusations of Gary-Stu-ing will turn out, instead, to be unreliable-narrator-dom.
I mean, the guy's an English grad student, isn't he? If he's just a hopped-up fanfic writer, I'm gonna be a little disappointed.
Thanks for the reminder that I need to read the rest of Joe Abercrombie's work Comrade Doodlebug! I've read the First Law trilogy, need to read the stand alone stuff now.
I've been reading Christopher Brookmyre's novel Bedlam... it's a sci-fi novel. I'm halfway through and struggling, without the sarcastic humour and satire it just doesn't feel like his work.
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♪♫ I hit her in the butt with a rotten coconut...♪♫
Dammit, Limeylongears!
Thanks for the reminder that I need to read the rest of Joe Abercrombie's work Comrade Doodlebug! I've read the First Law trilogy, need to read the stand alone stuff now.
For the record, I bought a copy of Red Country, handed it off to one of my players and he, no gushing fanboy, said it was the best one yet.
I handed it off to another one of my players who had also read all the Abercrombie books, let's see what he has to say.
As for myself, I realized that it's going to be quite a while before I get to Red Country because I decided that I am going to re-read all the other books before I start it and I don't think I'm going to do that for quite a while.
So, really, I guess I don't mind if Rothfuss (and Martin, for that matter) take their time.
I am still anticipating/hoping for a last-minute Joe Abercrombie/Henry James-style big reveal that Kvothe is really a lying, self-serving asshat and all the accusations of Gary-Stu-ing will turn out, instead, to be unreliable-narrator-dom.
I assumed this from the get-go, and am kind of surprised that anyone didn't. Maybe not out-and-out lying, but definitely cutting corners, rearranging or simplifying events to put himself in a better light, leaving out bits of information that would show more fault in himself than he's willing to hand out, and otherwise skewing the story in his own favor.
Granted I still haven't read Wise Man's Fear yet.
I'm about halfway into The Winter Long now. Almost forgot how much I love McGuire's fey.
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I picked up The Soprano Sorceress by L.E. Modesitt Jr. from the .50c pile at the library sale. It isn't bad, but it ain't good either.
Things I like so far: fairly realistic portrayal of professional singers and their personalities that are shaped by their singing. Dang it, I KNOW these people! (except if they had magic...it would scare the ship out of me)
Things I don't like: having to take the "stolen-from-earth" genre for what it is and the disconnect between the "naturalistic" fiction of the protagonist's "Earth" in contrast to the fantasy world. Even with Robert E. Howard (John Carter) or Mark Twain (Connecticut Yankee) I've yet to see it done in a way that doesn't make me work really hard to suspend my disbelief. Excepted for Francis Stevens' The Heads of Cerberus who makes it work because it is just too gonzo, like a trippy episode of "Sliders."
Pet Peeve: It's "I couldn't care less." COULDN'T! grumbles about writers and lazy editors.
I really like most of Modesitt's work. This one was hard for me to read, though. I got the impression that he wrote it specifically for his wife who is a professional opera singer. To me, it feels a little forced. Try out some of his Saga of Recluce books. They're all in an odd chronological order for the history of his world, but some of them are really good. I never thought the description of making a wooden dresser could be interesting, but it had me enthralled in Magic of Recluce. I suggest starting with that one, if you do.
I read Marriage and Love by Emma Goldman this week,Goin' all stream-of-consciousness, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, who probably rubbed shoulders with Emma back in the day, but I can't be sure, was once asked by a bourgeois journalist whether she believed in "Free Love" to which she replied, "As opposed to what? Slave love?"
Goblins do it in the streets!
Speaking of which, Behold! A message from Wonder Norm!
It is not hard to find, really. Just look for a world that lies a thousand degrees north of monothink, a thousand degrees east of orthodoxy, a thousand degrees west of ideological conformity, a continent far from the placid waters of predictable mediocrity, a different world, one real, one like no other, one beyond the familiar world’s horizon, one emergent from far, tumultuous, untamed seas, a world alert to deep currents, which listens to secret whispers, which wears stars in her hair.
The maps of ideologically servile cartographers may choose not to show the Gorean world, but it is there, a wonderful, forbidden continent. Some of you know her, and have been there.
I think he may have meant to have written 'cheese' rather than 'seas', but nonetheless...
Remind me to send you another private message about SMURF, Comrade Longears.
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Vive le Pays Maudit!
I bagged a beaut' today at the flea market - the British Edda, by L A Waddell. Unbeknownst to anyone except L.A., the Icelandic prose eddas were actually written in British, and tell the story of Thor (who IS Adam, who IS Mithra, who IS St George) and his efforts to bring manly Aryan civilisation to the world. It also turns out that the Sumerians were Goths, as were/are both the Welsh and the Anglo-Saxons, that the story of the garden of Eden is actually a corrupted account of a battle between cloth-wearing Thorean goths and fur-wearing Odinite worshippers of the Serpent-Wolf cult and that Christianity was a dreadful thing until it passed out of the hands of pesky Semites and into the clean-limbed grasp of flaxen-haired noble Northmen. Reads like a fascist rip-off of Thongor, with extra poetry. A biog of the author can be found here, which puts things into perspective.
Also, while I was sitting down with a small sherry and a copy of A La Recherche du Temps Perdu, someone snuck into my house, snatched the book out of my hands and replaced it with 'Priest-Kings of Gor'! I am very annoyed.
Limey, have you heard of a book called The Iron Dream? It sort of combines the best (I use that word advisedly) parts of Gor with a fascist rip-off of Throngor, as written by Adolf Hitler if he'd set his sights on writing pulp science fiction instead of world domination. It's a pretty weird reading experience, but it might be right up your alley.
I haven't, but I'll keep my eyes peeled for that one. Thanks!
Just to be clear, I don't find myself thinking while reading Thongor, "Yeah, it's *OK*, but how, how I wish there was more genocidal racism in it" I imagine I'd be pretty disturbed if I ever read, say, The Turner Diaries
. . . That wasn't the alley I was talking about, I promise. :)
Edda
Limey, are you familiar with the work of Benjamin Bagby? He just released a recording of the Edda that's an attempt to recreate the original performance style. I've been listening to it while I edit to keep my cube extra heroic.
In other news, just finished The Glass Sentence (the world's timeline breaks, sending different eras into different time periods, some of them magical). It's a fun read, but I really need to go back through the end when life is less frantic to make sure it holds together. But for now, on to The Death of King Arthur!
Im reading Valor (The Faithful and The Fallen #2) by John Gwynne. Its a very good series from an unkown author.
And the Name of the Wind Books are really good. Very worth a read.
EddaLimey, are you familiar with the work of Benjamin Bagby? He just released a recording of the Edda that's an attempt to recreate the original performance style. I've been listening to it while I edit to keep my cube extra heroic.
I have not - one more to add to the list now, so thanks! Reading some inter-war military lunatic's butchering of it has made me want to seek out the original, which is on Project Gutenberg, in various forms...
Have finished 'Battlefield Yorkshire', which was an eye-opener. Now started 'Zofroya, or the Moor', by Charlotte Dacre. Byron liked it, probably because of the interracial Lesbian/semi-Sadean elements that the blurb on the back alludes to, though seeing how those two themes blend will be interesting.
Now started 'Zofroya, or the Moor', by Charlotte Dacre. Byron liked it, probably because of the interracial Lesbian/semi-Sadean elements that the blurb on the back alludes to, though seeing how those two themes blend will be interesting.
[Adds to list]
Smashing my way through Stephen Lawhead's Song of Albion trilogy. One of my favourite fantasy trilogies from when I was a teenager. Tells the story of Lewis, an American graduate student of Celtic history at Oxford, who finds himself travelling to the Otherworld to try to prevent the two worlds from losing all connection to each other (which would have catastrophic impact on humanity).
The Paradise War (book 1) and The Endless Knot (Book 3) are told from Lewis' point of view, while The Silver Hand (book 2) is narrated by Tegid, a bard who acts as Lewis' best friend and advisor.
It was one of my first introductions to Celtic mythology (okay, it takes liberties with it, but that's to be expected) and helped cement a fledgling interest (due to discovering that I had Irish heritage) with it into a lifelong fascination.
Limey, have you heard of a book called The Iron Dream?
I've had my eye out for that since I read about it in an essay by Ms. le Guin. Must read!
New England Paizonians: I was in the People's Republic of Cambridge this past weekend to attend a lecture at the Center for Marxist Education on the history of the Israeli Socialist Organisation but, alas, we arrived rather late and we missed all of the historical stuff but arrived just in time to have our own organization subtly dissed by the speaker. [Curses] Did pick up some neat-o Soviet published Lenin and Marx for the lit table, though.
But we were able to step into Pandemonium Books in Central Square where they were proudly advertising a collection of sixties and seventies sword-and-sorcerror and sci-fi paperbacks under a sign reading "M.I.T. Science Fiction Club Library"!!!
They were each $3.95 (rent in the People's Republic ain't cheap, you know), and most of the stuff I was interested in I already had, but I still was able to pick up Mistress of Mistresses by E.R. Eddison which, you know, I'll hopefully be able to read someday before I die.
Influential Books List Betrays the Fact that Most Adults Don't Read
Man, if that poll saying 23% of Americans don't read a book in a year is even close to accurate, then wow. Even my mates who claim they "don't read for fun" get through at least a few books in a year, even if they are historical stuff or biographies (it's not for study purposes, so I count it). Personally I get through at least one book a week, normally more (but I tend to re-read a lot of stuff) and most of my friends get through one a week too. I can't even imagine going for a year without reading a book.
The Cable Car in America by George Hilton and James A. Bier
The Europe Book by Lonely Planet
Started The Lenâpé and Their Legends (thanks, Project Gutenburg!) as my Kindle book.
Contributor
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I recently read Sword of the Bright Lady for a cover blurb. Today I posted an interview with its author, Micheal Planck. Gamers are the perfect audience for this novel.
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I haven't, but I'll keep my eyes peeled for that one. Thanks!
Just to be clear, I don't find myself thinking while reading Thongor, "Yeah, it's *OK*, but how, how I wish there was more genocidal racism in it" I imagine I'd be pretty disturbed if I ever read, say, The Turner Diaries
I could make some suggestions from nineteenth century American political writing if you really want to corrupt your internal monologue. Sometimes it's very darkly funny when a random proslavery argument just pops into your head, with most of the key phrases as direct quotes.
Does make me very happy that telepathy isn't real, though. I'm socially unacceptable enough without the extra help.
Man, if that poll saying 23% of Americans don't read a book in a year is even close to accurate, then wow. Even my mates who claim they "don't read for fun" get through at least a few books in a year, even if they are historical stuff or biographies (it's not for study purposes, so I count it). Personally I get through at least one book a week, normally more (but I tend to re-read a lot of stuff) and most of my friends get through one a week too. I can't even imagine going for a year without reading a book.Influential Books List Betrays the Fact that Most Adults Don't Read
It's hard for me to even count anymore. I probably only read two or three fictions a year and a few more non-fictions, but I do quite a bit of reading for my blog (which is both research and for-fun reading) that skews things. I tried to set myself aside an hour right after the daily writing to read, but that ended up being an extension of the blogging time past when I previously had the satisfaction of having finished for the nonce. Even I need a break from history now and then.
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That's kind of sad. Even if I do absolutely none else, I get a half-hour of reading time before crashing each night. Helps me get to sleep. I'm to the point where it's harder to get to sleep if I skip it. That I enjoy reading is a plus.
That's kind of sad. Even if I do absolutely none else, I get a half-hour of reading time before crashing each night. Helps me get to sleep. I'm to the point where it's harder to get to sleep if I skip it.
Yeah, you, me, and E.C. "Scar" Gordon.
I could make some suggestions from nineteenth century American political writing if you really want to corrupt your internal monologue. Sometimes it's very darkly funny when a random proslavery argument just pops into your head, with most of the key phrases as direct quotes.
Does make me very happy that telepathy isn't real, though. I'm socially unacceptable enough without the extra help.
Hum. The mental indigestion I got from reading Nesta Webster was bad enough (or when somebody lent me William Cooper's 'Behold A Pale Horse'... Or when I made the mistake of reading the Protocols... Or the SCUM manifesto... At least that was kind of funny. Or a book by someone called Frances Cress Wilson (?) who claimed that white people put up Christmas trees with brightly coloured baubles on because they secretly want to castrate black men)
And Zofraya the Moor is male, so sorry for raising false hopes.
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Man, if that poll saying 23% of Americans don't read a book in a year is even close to accurate, then wow. Even my mates who claim they "don't read for fun" get through at least a few books in a year, even if they are historical stuff or biographies (it's not for study purposes, so I count it). Personally I get through at least one book a week, normally more (but I tend to re-read a lot of stuff) and most of my friends get through one a week too. I can't even imagine going for a year without reading a book.Influential Books List Betrays the Fact that Most Adults Don't Read
Alas, I can attest that most of my less geeky friends don't read at all, and most of my geeky friends only read a little. Of course, there are religious people who read exactly one book a year (the same one every time, but at least it's a long one), so hopefully they can be some sort of saving grace for modern society.
For some reason, I'm reading The Tenant of Wildfeld Hall. It's a break from all the Dummies books and textbooks, plus it completes my Bronte sister collection. Their heads look great on my wall.
And Zofraya the Moor is male, so sorry for raising false hopes.
No fears; I'm not picky.