I swear I've reread the article a half-dozen times since I received it in the mail, but I just don't see a class skill list (or skill points per level) anywhere in it. Nor, for that matter, do I see weapon or armor proficiencies.
The latter I can understand; a master astrologer wouldn't necessarily pick up more combat skills. The missing skill list troubles me.
Am I just not seeing it?
Director of Game Design
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I swear I've reread the article a half-dozen times since I received it in the mail, but I just don't see a class skill list (or skill points per level) anywhere in it. Nor, for that matter, do I see weapon or armor proficiencies.
The latter I can understand; a master astrologer wouldn't necessarily pick up more combat skills. The missing skill list troubles me.
Am I just not seeing it?
The skill list for the master astrologer is at the bottom of its advancement chart. As for weapon or armor proficiencies, you are right, the master astrologer gets none.
Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of Dragon
The skill list for the master astrologer is at the bottom of its advancement chart. As for weapon or armor proficiencies, you are right, the master astrologer gets none.
Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of Dragon
I can see how I missed it. The art scheme on those pages are a bit busy. I knew it had to be there, but I just couldn't find it.
Thanks!
I have another question about this interesting prestige class. Is there a reason (other than flavor) the class specifically excludes bards and sorcerers from taking levels?
I have another question about this interesting prestige class. Is there a reason (other than flavor) the class specifically excludes bards and sorcerers from taking levels?
I see it as a matter of flavor: an master astrologer spends hours poring over charts and studying the stars, so it makes sense for it to only apply to those classes that prepare spells.
On a game balance side, there are far more prestige classes that apply to spontaneous casters, so I do like that there is the occasional one that allows only prepared casters.
The powers of the class are focussed around giving a prepared caster more leeway; I don't think the rules would really fit a spontaneous caster too well - the stargazing power would be worthless, and the metamagic powers would cause a spontaneous caster to spend full rounds casting the spells, which in my mind negates the point of capitalizing on moments (sometimes seconds, sometimes longer) in which the stars are aligned 'just so.'
I see it as a matter of flavor: an master astrologer spends hours poring over charts and studying the stars, so it makes sense for it to only apply to those classes that prepare spells.
Why, though, can't a bard be that person just because they spontaneously cast? What about the bard class says they can't spend hours reading through tomes about the stars?
On a game balance side, there are far more prestige classes that apply to spontaneous casters, so I do like that there is the occasional one that allows only prepared casters.
Now, see, I disagree with this. I think there are far more prestige classes for the preparer classes than the spontaneous classes.
The powers of the class are focussed around giving a prepared caster more leeway; I don't think the rules would really fit a spontaneous caster too well - the stargazing power would be worthless,
Indeed. Just because one ability is useless, though, doesn't really make the entire class useless. I've had plenty of characters who had an ability or two I never used.
and the metamagic powers would cause a spontaneous caster to spend full rounds casting the spells, which in my mind negates the point of capitalizing on moments (sometimes seconds, sometimes longer) in which the stars are aligned 'just so.'
*shrug* I guess I'll just disagree on this point. I don't see much difference, from a flavor stand-point, of the spell taking a full-round action to cast. It's still 6 seconds or less. *shrug*
You do have excellent points, although I would have to disagree about the number of spontaneous-vs-prepared prestige classes (this is IMO; it's sparked my curiousity enough to look through my library tonight). =)
The prestige classes for prepared vs. spontaneous casters is an interesting debate, although I tend to side with Zherog's point of view.
On the one hand (when comparing wizard to sorcerer), the sorcerer loses essentially nothing when going into a prestige class, while the wizard loses bonus feats. From this perspective, any PrC with full spellcasting progression will benefit a sorcerer more than a wizard.
However, there are very few PrC that capitalize on the abilities of a spontaneous caster, in terms of abilities and in terms of prerequisites. Most spellcasting PrC's are focused on the prepared spellcaster, requiring Knowledge skills the sorcerer does not have, or an excess of metamagic feats that takes longer for the sorcerer to get. Combination PrCs (Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster...) require a sacrifice in spellcaster levels, holding the sorcerer further back than the wizard (due to an already delayed progression). Abilities tend to focus on, metamagic (a wizard's province), a narrowed theme (hindering the sorcerer with his limited spell selection), or extra oomph (benefiting both classes equally).
The sorcerer's uniqueness comes from her additional spell slots, ease of multiple castings of the same spell, and spontaneous metamagic. PrCs that are directed to such a spontaneous caster would be expected to include such abilities as: spells known, sacrificing spell slots for special effects, or increasing the versatility of spells. There are hardly any PrCs that grant these abilities.
Good points. I was basing my thought on spontaneous-vs-prepared purely on the requirement of 'must be able to prepare spells' vs 'must be able to cast spells spontaneously.'
Putting it in that light does alter the balance quite a bit. =)
Good points. I was basing my thought on spontaneous-vs-prepared purely on the requirement of 'must be able to prepare spells' vs 'must be able to cast spells spontaneously.'
That's pretty much the criteria I was looking at as well. Certainly, some classes are easier for a wizard to enter, or benefit a wizard more; but I just can't recall too many classes that are designed one way or the other - that is, requires either spell prep or spontaneous casting.
As for this class in particular - I'm quite OK with it being just for casters who prepare spells; I just want to make sure there isn't some drastic issue with altering it, should I choose to go that path.
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Director of Game Design
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Good points. I was basing my thought on spontaneous-vs-prepared purely on the requirement of 'must be able to prepare spells' vs 'must be able to cast spells spontaneously.'That's pretty much the criteria I was looking at as well. Certainly, some classes are easier for a wizard to enter, or benefit a wizard more; but I just can't recall too many classes that are designed one way or the other - that is, requires either spell prep or spontaneous casting.
As for this class in particular - I'm quite OK with it being just for casters who prepare spells; I just want to make sure there isn't some drastic issue with altering it, should I choose to go that path.
Sorcerers and bards can certainly take this class, they just have an extra feat requirment, Arcane Preparation from Complete Arcane. While this might seem like an unfair requirement, it does represent the dedication required to join this class. Of course, the final word is with the DM and if you want to change the requirements, that is your perogative.
Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of Dragon
Sorcerers and bards can certainly take this class, they just have an extra feat requirment, Arcane Preparation from Complete Arcane. While this might seem like an unfair requirement, it does represent the dedication required to join this class. Of course, the final word is with the DM and if you want to change the requirements, that is your perogative.
I think that the Master Astrologer is one of the best PrC's in the game and it has existed(to my knowledge anyway) about a week
it actually would make perfect sense that spontaneous casters who dont have much traditonal training would be unable to take this class without taking an extra feat infact it would seem as if bards and sorcerors would have to take more than one feat.