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I don't think so because... (PRD Divine Vessel- These modifiers replace the normal modifiers for increasing your size.)
Seems like that would mean modifiers from enlarge person as well.
But I have a player who insists they stack and Hero Lab does allow the stack. (I know that Hero Lab can not always be trusted, but that is another debate)
It's a magical effect that changes size. It does not stack.
I don't think so because... (PRD Divine Vessel- These modifiers replace the normal modifiers for increasing your size.)
Seems like that would mean modifiers from enlarge person as well.But I have a player who insists they stack and Hero Lab does allow the stack. (I know that Hero Lab can not always be trusted, but that is another debate)
They definitely do not stack. Enlarge person gives a +2 size bonus to strength, and Divine Vessel gives a +6 size bonus to strength, along with additional bonuses. As with all named bonuses other than dodge bonuses, two bonuses of the same type do not stack with each other. Thus Enlarge person does not stack with Divine Vessel, Righteous Might or any of the Polymorph spells. They all give size bonuses.
On the bright side, any one of those spells will stack with Bull's Strength, as it gives an Enhancement bonus to strength.
The stat bonuses you get are due to the increased size, not a separate thing.
The stat bonuses you get are due to the increased size, not a separate thing.yes. but what about the size category it's self? Can you go Huge, regardless of stat bonuses.
Nope, the stat bumps are a function of the change in size. You don't increase in size without the concurrent stat increases. If you're ineligible to receive the stat increase due to stacking issues, you are also ineligible to receive the size increase.
Really? Your player insists that he can stack the spells and end up as a huge humanoid? Sounds like this guy is trying to take you for a ride, and I would examine any non-standard combinations of abilities/spells he is using for any other munchkin silliness. A player like this does not realise that he is taking away from the other players' enjoyment of the game by trying to be the super-star of the party. A cleric who is a better fighter than the fighter makes the player who chooses the fighter feel like he may as well not show up.
I may have been misrepresented here.... (Yarb doesn't know i read these every once in a while =]) my raising the issue is out of concern for Hero Lab's adjudication of the PFRPG rule set. I don't think Divine Essence and Enlarge person SHOULD stack together to effectively increase size by 2 steps, but that is the result of Hero Lab.
This is really part of a broader issue i have with PC's outpacing the monsters they fight as ECL nears 20.
Even if this is merely a ruling error on the part of Hero Lab, the description of the spell effects from Divine Essence need to be more clear with regard to size increases. I think an easy fix would be to list the size modifier in the same way that enhancement modifiers are listed (even if this is redundant and size does not increase more than 1 step at a time currently). the divine essence spell description seems to lack this clarity.
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@everyone. Thank you all for your responses, man I love this community. Back in the day we would have just devolved into 3 days of arguing and no community to turn to. ya interwebs!
@ Mabven the OP healer. In this player's defense, he brought this up because he thought it was broken, not to use with one of his PC's. Sometimes when we end up with game down time due to an absent player etc we build crazy character concepts at 20th level and run them against mixed pairs of high cr monsters just to sort of test out the mechanics of combat at that high a level. It was during one of these "experimental" sessions that this question arose. This player is very conscious of game play and balance. munchkins don't stay at our table, we either "retrain" them or bounce them.
enlarge person:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
Divine essence would need a quote saying that it trumps enlarge person in order for it to stack. The lack of one means it does not.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
I'm assuming all these spells are transmutation (polymorph), so they don't stack in any way - in fact, you don't even get the best of them. Once you're under the effects of one, you're immune to all others.
After reading the spell description for Divine Essence, it's clear this is a Hero Lab error. Your points about spell effects that change size not stacking is also clearly stated in the divine essence description. So i should have let the issue drop. Yet...
the game at higher levels is so cumbersome as to necessitate some software support for number crunching which leaves me thinking either Paizo needs to trim down the rolling and number crunching associated with high level play or work more closely with herolab to facilitate full game play...lvl 1-20!
if you have kept an eye on the RPG superstar feedback you may have seen SKR's comments about a lvl 14 Faction leader being too high for most campaigns and thus out of place for the superstar contest. this strikes me as odd, if lvl's 15-20 exist and not much content is available at those levels (particularly in society play)then there seems to be lots of room for development here , esp from a marketing perspective.
End Rant: as this devolves let me summarize: Fix mid-high level play or simply remove it from Core
The software is not needed. It just makes things faster.
The software is not needed. It just makes things faster.
it depends on how much time you have to play i suppose. but consider:
20th lvl monk
flurry
power attack
haste
heroism
good hope
weapon focus
bane on amulet
Ki expenditure
Finesse
ioun stone
lots of calculations to arrive at 9 attacks of 4d8 + 2d6 + static...
...... then anti-magic field hits.....
without software assistance this can easily be a 20 min intermission to unravel spell effects from non-spell effects for those that don't track carefully.
AT THIS POINT THE GAME BECOMES ACCOUNTING
20 minutes is a long time. Maybe 3 minutes.
The only things that need to be accounted for are the magical effects. to find the base number.
The only change is that enlarge person now has a longer duration. It's still a spell, and it does not stack.