SPOILER SPACE
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Now that two adventures of AoW have been published, I'd like to make a few comments about what I like and don't like so far, with hope of getting more of what I like in future AoW adventures.
Unfortunately, most of "what I like" will be from Whispering Cairn, and "what I don't like" will be from Three Faces.
It's probably unfair to make the comparison like this: Whispering Cairn is a masterpiece, and Three Faces is bound to pale in comparison. But the contrast between the two helps explain what I want to see more of in the future.
To begin with: encounter variety.
Whispering Cairn has about 40 encounters, and out of all those, only two combatants (acid beetle swarm and bombardier beetles) are repeated.
Contrast with Three Faces of Evil, which of its 30 encounters, nine of them are with grimlocks. If I run this as written, my players are going to get really sick of grimlocks. It's like toward the end of Shackled City: "Oh great, more demodands."
More commentary to come in future posts on this thread.
Second comparison between Whispering Cairn and Three Faces: interaction with NPCs.
One of the problems with the Shackled City Adventure Path, which Erik Mona acknowledged in a thread on these boards, was that the NPCs exists for no reason other than to get slaughtered by the PCs. The PCs never get to know any of the Cagewrights as villians.
Whispering Cairn doesn't have this problem. The PCs get to know Filge and who he is before they face him, through what Kullen and his thugs can tell them, and from the grisly dinner party room. He'll surrender when things get bad for him, and the PCs will have a chance to interrogate him, and turn him over to the garrison.
Of the three NPC leaders of the Ebon Triad, the only one who the PCs might get to know is Theldrick. Grallak Kur and the Faceless One fight to the death. The PCs won't even get a chance to learn Grallak Kur's name.
You can definately see a huge shift in focus from Mona's fluffy romp to Mearls crunchy combat. While 'Cairn was a fully fleshed out adventure, Three Faces is really just a constant fight with diverse battle grounds and opponents. Admittedly, its a remarkably well conceived combat, with tactics that match not only the antagonists fighting styles, but their dogma as well. However, I really hated the fact that these brilliantly realized villains can't be used as reoccuring, while the violent realization of their plot is, in the end, just a brute monster.
I'm definately planning on throwing in rp where I can, I'm sure my group will take a prisoner at some point, hopefully one from each group, and that should drive home the individuality of the three faiths that have allied themselves in the Cathedral (along with the pretty scenery that I'm having to convert over to Eberron's Dark trio, no mean feat.) I'll be playing up the Dourstone/Smenk/Temple connection to give the pc's a chance to run the two despots out of town, although they'll have a harder time convicting the slippery Smenk.
I was disappointed when I first read through Three Faces, largely because of the contrasts that you pointed out. I've decided to reserve judgement until I see the third AP adventure, tho. I'm hoping we'll see that contrast of styles again, going from dungeon crawl to overland trek, from near-constant combat to more role-play and diplomacy.
My first read through the Whispering Cairn I was disappointed with the lack of role-playing. Then I read through the Diamond Lake info and back through the Whispering Cairn and realized that was simply a space issue (I hope).
The adventure started just outside the entrance to the dungeon. For me, that is a HUGE red flag for an adventure. Now that I have read all the material though, I know that when I run it will likely be several sessions before they even get to that point. There is plenty of RP to be had, it is just not written into the adventure. Do I count it as part of the adventure then? If I do, I concure this is a masterpiece, but taking the Whipering Cairn on it's own merits with no context or only including written material (sans-rp then) and I am less impressed.
Compare this to Life's Bazaar where you had a whole bunch of RP... thugs threatening a priest to keep his nose out of things, encounter with Jenya, Encounter at the orphanage (and possibly with watch or other sites of missing victims) and then finally at Ghelve's Locks... all before they enter the dungeon. This is a huge difference.
And I guess I see Three Faces as not that different from Whispering Cairn, both are not the same as the Diamond Lake info that just happens to be in the same issue as Whispering Cairn. It is still just as effective for Three Faces and should be included just as much in the review of one as the other. Adding that in I feel Three faces is a pretty good adventure. There is a LOT of info gathered and the notes found (that could be expanded on)really do flesh out the relationships and who these villians are. AND I think this will be the first adventure that truly ties them to the plot so once we look back and have the whole AP, this one will rate higher in your mind.
Sean Mahoney
To be fair, Whispering Cairn benefited from an extra large adventure format and a secondary background write up for the whole town.
I think the main priests for each cult have great flavor and background, in fact Theldrick is really the most vanilla of the three. As each of the temples have extremely complicated battles, I think it is good that Mr Mearls spent words on detailing these versus fluff and rp stuff.
About the only thing I would have liked to see is more on how Vecna used the place and the sort of research, rituals, etc. that he enacted, but then again how much of that would have been relevant to the PC's?
Overall I thought it was a well done combat romp versus three very disparate and evil cults.
Comparison three: making the bad guys truly evil.
Whispering Cairn has one truly evil bad guy, Filge. But Erik did a great job of making him really really evil. Not only is he arranging for grave robberies for corpses to animate, he's clearly a multiple murderer, judging from the dinner party room.
If lawful characters kill him (though he probably will be taken alive), it's not a big deal. He's almost certainly wanted dead or alive in Greyhawk.
In Three Faces, on the other hand, the only evil the cultists are up to is worshipping Hextor/Vecna/Erythnul. They aren't doing anything illegal at all, as far as the characters know. (And as Theldrick points out to them ... though probably after they've slaughtered several tiefling guards, the cultists in area 3, and the priests Garras and Kendra.)
The only way for the PCs to get through the Hextor section is to become cold-blooded murderers. That may fit some groups, but not either of mine!
Fourth contrast between Whispering Cairn and Three Faces: PC motivations and goals.
By "motivations" I mean whatever makes the PCs do this adventure at all, and by "goals" I mean the concrete plot points that drive the PCs forward.
Whispering Cairn has a built-in motivation: the PCs are first level and poor, and exploring an unlooted cairn can be a good way to get rich (and get enough money to leave Diamond Lake for a better life elsewhere).
Then Whispering Cairn drops in a few goals on the way: return Alastor's remains to his grave; find out who stole the Land remains; get the Land remains back. It keeps the plot going forward.
In Three Faces, I can't figure out how to even motivate the PCs to go down into Dourstone Mine. As written, they're supposed to go in at the behest of Alastor and/or Smenk. But while looting a cairn is a good way to get rich, infiltrating a well-guarded cultists' lair is a good way to get killed. I can't see why they would agree to do this for Smenk, even if he does kidnap a familiar.
And even if I figure out the motivation, the PCs have no goals. What exactly does Smenk hire them to do? Kill the Faceless One, along with Theldrick and Grallak Kur perhaps? Sorry, I don't think my PCs are willing to become hired assassins, even if the victims are evil cultists.
The only way for the PCs to get through the Hextor section is to become cold-blooded murderers. That may fit some groups, but not either of mine!
In which case, they may have to find some roleplaying and/or non-combat solutions to the "problem" they pose. Personally, I agree with most of your earlier comments comparing the two adventures thusfar, but in the case of the Temple of Hextor, I thought there was an interesting quandry set-up: what do you do when the "bad guys" haven't killed anyone and aren't breaking any laws? This part of TFoE, in my opinion at least, does offer a little bit of that roleplaying intrigue that some of us feel is missing from this segment.
In which case, they may have to find some roleplaying and/or non-combat solutions to the "problem" they pose. Personally, I agree with most of your earlier comments comparing the two adventures thusfar, but in the case of the Temple of Hextor, I thought there was an interesting quandry set-up: what do you do when the "bad guys" haven't killed anyone and aren't breaking any laws? This part of TFoE, in my opinion at least, does offer a little bit of that roleplaying intrigue that some of us feel is missing from this segment.
It is an interesting quandary -- or it could have been, if Mearls had written in some role-playing way to solve it, such as Theldrick paying the PCs to double-cross Smenk. But he didn't. All that's there is one small nod to the ethical dilemma that lawful PCs will face in the Hextor area.
Now to give credit where it's due, here's what I like about Three Faces: two interesting combat settings, the bridge in the Erythnul area, and the labyrinth in the Vecna area.
And much praise for using Kenku, one of my favorite creatures, even though the set-up doesn't allow for much use of their voice-mimicry abilities.
But in the end, as DeVermisMysteriis writes:
While 'Cairn was a fully fleshed out adventure, Three Faces is really just a constant fight with diverse battle grounds and opponents.
Three Faces reminds me of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil: just one long combat. That's not what I'm looking for in material for the two campaigns I'm running. I've got two groups of sophisticated role-players, who've been playing for years, and who have well-thought-out PCs with interesting backgrounds and motivations. I need something more than hack-and-slash, kick-down-the-door-and-kill-the-bad-guys adventures, no matter how cool the combat settings are.
It is an interesting quandary -- or it could have been, if Mearls had written in some role-playing way to solve it, such as Theldrick paying the PCs to double-cross Smenk. But he didn't.
Well, it sounds like you've already got one idea cooking that will improve the roleplaying aspect of this part of the AP (which I agree is lacking). With that sort of tweaking, and groups of sophisticated role-players making more interesting choices than simply *killin' stuff*, I'm sure you'll be able to keep this particular adventure lively.
Personally, I was disappointed at how TFoE does NOTHING with Ragnolin. I'm planning on making a) getting past him and into the dungeon and b) dealing with him after the fall of the three cults FAR more involved than TFoE as-written would suggest.
Well, it sounds like you've already got one idea cooking that will improve the roleplaying aspect of this part of the AP (which I agree is lacking). With that sort of tweaking, and groups of sophisticated role-players making more interesting choices than simply *killin' stuff*, I'm sure you'll be able to keep this particular adventure lively.
After perusing through some back-issues of Dungeon this afternoon, my plan is to use "Devil Box" from issue 109 as filler until issue 125 comes out. Devil Box is a perfect fit for the Diamond Lake setting. And it has lots of juicy role-playing goodness!
For right now, I'm not going to reveal the contents of the note from Smenk to Filge. (It's written in a cryptic code, DC 30 decipher script.)
When issue 125 comes out, I'll see where things stand, plot-wise. (Although I may be able to figure that out from Age of Worms Overload.) I'll somehow reveal the contents of the coded note to lead them to the next adventure.
If necessary, I'll run a stripped down version of Three Faces. If not, I'll have the note take them directly to Encounter at Blackwall Keep.
After perusing through some back-issues of Dungeon this afternoon, my plan is to use "Devil Box" from issue 109 as filler until issue 125 comes out. Devil Box is a perfect fit for the Diamond Lake setting. And it has lots of juicy role-playing goodness!
Excellent idea! I think I'll do the same.
I've also been pondering a way to use a modified version of "Mad God's Key" from 114. It ends up in a neat tomb in the Cairn Hills area, anyhow. With some tweaking on the front end, it may be workable. I'm trying to figure a way to involve the Free City adventurers in that mix somehow.
The only way for the PCs to get through the Hextor section is to become cold-blooded murderers. That may fit some groups, but not either of mine!
There are other ways, though. A direct attack / confrontation would be illegal - per the priest Theldrick (which could be the case, as written). But a really interesting and alternative method would be for the players to infiltrate the Hextor cult. The bridge from Whispering Cairn to TFoE really should be an interaction with Smenk, after the players get info on the cults from Filge.
Perhaps, after the players take down and interrogate Filge, they could go to one of several places for a follow-up / bridge: evidence for a cult of Vecna, whose priests are usually hunted down (per Greyhawk gazetteer), would be best brought to one of the good-aligned churches. Confronting Smenk is another option, and he might try tricking them or bribing them into a fight with the cult(s). Both Ragnolin and Smenk are referred to as "pawns," so it might be good to follow up with Ragnolin - and just maybe he could be convinced to allow the players passage so they can remove "his problem"... the tricky part of this is that Ragnolin doesn't seem to be charmed, but affected by a mix of greed and intimidation. So they could also maybe go through Ragnolin. And then there's the issue of the worms, which is enough to get Allustan (and maybe Wierus or another town priest) involved.
When I first read through TFoE, I saw this as a DM challenge to get the players into some really gritty, hazy areas. Especially given that a Vecnan priest is involved, and either Filge, Allustan, or a wizard PC would be interested in his "secrets," I don't think that this is meant to be a straightforward "dive in and kill everything" type of adventure. There are a lot of places for subtlety.
Did Mearls leave out the subtleties? Not at all - he talks a lot about Smenk's motives and actions, and also about tensions between the three cults. Lots to play with! And as the adventure path progresses anyway, the goals and motivations of different player groups could be quite diverse. So I think that quite a bit was left open-ended. One thing Mearls notes is that some of the Hextorite priests could be wandering around town (legally, btw), getting supplies and perhaps encouraging strife among the mine-operators. This could be used to really good effect in role-playing... as the cultists become more comfortable with their "power," the town might become more cowed and even darker (businesses always cater to their clients' desires, and Hextorites could have a lot of base desires). Does anyone in the town care about the murder of Smenk's right-hand man, for instance? Imagine a good Paladin-PC who could get the garrison back to "right thinking," or a CN Rogue-PC who works his way into a cut on someone's extortion.
Or this line could be dropped entirely if one is running a fully evil-aligned party: the players could start *working* for Ragnolin, or Theldrick, or the Faceless One, until tensions between them become too great... or until the players' greed overmatches their caution. None of the priests seem to like each other, and both Ragnolin and Smenk have been intimidated, so the players could stir things up and then stand back to watch the fireworks. Even if the party is good-aligned, an infiltration approach seems really appropriate (and the most dangerous) for role-playing. Initially less crunchy, perhaps, but combat is pretty much inevitable after they find out about the growing, festering Ebon Aspect.
So I think a lot of the bridges from Wh. Cairn to TFoE really depend a lot on who your players are, their alignments, who they might be working with, and their personal goals and motivations. Much trickier for the DM, but it's also nice and open-ended for you as the DM!
I am beginning to wonder if we are overthinking this. I haven't seen 125 yet but why would a priest or paladin of heironous need any reason to attack followers of Hextor other than they simply there. Mortal enemies and all that.
Oh, I can see a case where in court the two might have to exist peacefully, but we are talking about a underground temple of Hextor in a town the servants of heironous are pledged to protect. Holy Crusade time.
Well, I had an in depth response to this topic, but it took a while to write it up and when I hit preview, apparently there was some kind of timeout and it just went to the store. It was long, too.
OK, to sum up. I thought Evil had a sucky leadin but so did Cairn. With time to prep, Evil should have good leadin. DL is a town of 1000 and there's at least 30 "people" in that dungeon - they would require food in some quantity, the Hextorite petitioners have to come from somewhere, etc. Theldrick at least would certainly would do some hobnobbing up top, someone must have spotted a grimlock at some point, etc. You just need to start working stuff in early, during Cairn.
This is one of the challenges faced by the AP format. Unless you wait a long time, you don't have later adventures in hand to prep for (and the adventures are written without seeing each other in most cases so can't help much).
The three dungeonettes are good but it's way contrived that they're all in one place with conveniently themed sub-corridors, it's like some demented Disneyland. They should get spread out and thus more interaction with DL.
As for motivation - the grimlock are "monsters", no one's going to bat an eye at that. It's the mass of Hextorites, especially the petitioners, which cause a problem. Most of them are likely local, with relatives etc.
You could prepare the PCs by having a related lead-in - perhaps someone comes to them whose brother/son/whatever fell in with some bad cult and now has "disappeared" while on duty in the mine, but their relative figures they ran off. They'd ask them to be retrieved without killing, so the PCs might be prepped for nonfatal personnel retrieval. I think the actual tieflings and priests of Hextor wouldn't be missed, especially as the local garrison is strongly Heironean. Remember that we're not talking about modern legalistic law. Medieval and Renaissance law was often quite subjective especially in the case of foreigners. Tieflings coated with devil tattoos hiding in an evil temple - fair game. If one was playing dragonchess in Lazare's it would be different. And I'd think that in most Greyhawk societies yes, worshipping Hextor etc. would be a priori illegal - perhaps the domain of Greyhawk is a bit more tolerant... The Vecnans wouldn't escape that, though,with their history with the Circle of Eight.
Well, my group just had their first session in TFoE tonight. Here is a brief summary: Smenk coerced the group into undertaking a mission to the mine (we are playing Forgotten Realms, btw). In order to infiltrate, they bribed a miner who they met in one of the taverns. By flashing a lot of gold, they convinced him and some of his buddies to create a late night distraction. This took the form of them setting to fire to a supply shack inside the compound. While the majority of the guards were occupied, the party made their way into the mine and down the elevator shaft.
Once in the cathedral, conflict started almost immediately with the tiefling guards. Luckily, the party took care of the guards before they could warn the skeletons. When they entered the skeleton room, a large fight broke out, involving the skeletons, the cultists, and the two other tiefling guards. None of the bad guys were able to make a complete run for it to either release the dire boar, or warn the rest of the compound, so the group was able to continue their infiltration. When they came upon the group of tieflings guarding the entrance to the priests' quarters, only then was a general alarm sounded. The priests and remaining guards rallied in the battle hall, and this is were the climax battle took place. In the end, the party was able to defeat all the bad guys, with no PC deaths or incapacitations, though there were some close calls.
As for resting, as long as the other factions aren't yet aware that the complex has been infiltrated (it states in the adventure that the three groups may go for days without interacting), I see no reason why they can't rest in the area they've just cleaned out.
In Three Faces, on the other hand, the only evil the cultists are up to is worshipping Hextor/Vecna/Erythnul. They aren't doing anything illegal at all...The only way for the PCs to get through the Hextor section is to become cold-blooded murderers. That may fit some groups, but not either of mine!
Actually the worship of Vecna and Erythnul is extremely illegal. The only place worship of Hextor is kosher is in the lands of the former Great Kingdom, but putting this aside. The adventure is written in such a way that the followers of these deities (in the case of Hextor the sentries are half-FIENDS!) don't just sit around and say hey adventuring dudes! Pull up and stool and let us tell you the great oppurtunity that is before you, become a worshipper of Hextor, and thats not all, he is about to become an ubergod combined with other awesome depraved evil deities! Yes, join us and help usher in the Age of Worms!
No, as written the worshipers of these evil cults are pretty proactive about exterminating any invasion into their temples, which is what you might expect.
In Three Faces, on the other hand, the only evil the cultists are up to is worshipping Hextor/Vecna/Erythnul. They aren't doing anything illegal at all...The only way for the PCs to get through the Hextor section is to become cold-blooded murderers. That may fit some groups, but not either of mine!
Actually the worship of Vecna and Erythnul is extremely illegal. The only place worship of Hextor is kosher is in the lands of the former Great Kingdom, but putting this aside. The adventure is written in such a way that the followers of these deities (in the case of Hextor the sentries are half-FIENDS!) don't just sit around and say hey adventuring dudes! Pull up and stool and let us tell you the great oppurtunity that is before you, become a worshipper of Hextor, and thats not all, he is about to become an ubergod combined with other awesome depraved evil deities! Yes, join us and help usher in the Age of Worms!
No, as written the worshipers of these evil cults are pretty proactive about exterminating any invasion into their temples, which is what you might expect.
You are right about the Hextorites/Banites. The way the adventure is written, they are pretty much on the offensive from the beginning. In our game, once the two tieflings below the elevator realized the PC's didn't belong, they attacked. Then, the second the PC's entered the skeleton guard room, they were attacked by the undead, followed up by the cultists, and the other two tiefling guards. From that point, it was a running battle. Near the end, Thedrick made a half-hearted overture, but by that time, the feral human barbarian in the party was in full rage, and no quarter was given.
the feral human barbarian in the party was in full rage, and no quarter was given.
lol...barbarians..excellent props to move the action along.
And I totally agree there is no moral dilemia here with going on the offensive from the get go. The cult leaders know that discovery of their existance means they have to immediately silence intruders. The Faceless one more or less says that in 124. They are 3 evil cults hiding in a mine, not officially sanctioned temples ..and good characters have a legit reason for going down there and smiting.
Someone in this thread made a comparison between Three Faces and Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. That's a very apt comparison - if you didn't like RttToEE, you probably aren't going to like Three Faces.
I have an adventure design style that veers about as far into 1e and away from 2e that you can get. I write adventures that let the PCs, rather than the NPCs or the DM, drive the action. If the players want to roleplay, they can try to negotiate with the denizens of the mines. If PCs want to kill them, that's what they're going to do. There's nothing in the adventure that dictates a specific course of action that the PCs must take to "solve" the adventure.
Someone in this thread made a comparison between Three Faces and Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. That's a very apt comparison - if you didn't like RttToEE, you probably aren't going to like Three Faces.
My dissatisfaction with Three Faces is ultimately a question of gaming style, and the comparison with RttToEE is apt. (Although the problem with total Grimlock overload would exist even if I did care for the style.)
This is just my voice as a subsciber, but this is exactly the kind of adventure I'm NOT looking for as part of AoW. I need storyline advancement, and interestingly NPCs with motives and goals to role-play, not cardboard-cutout bad guys hanging out in evil temples waiting to be slaughtered.
I can draw dungeons and populate them with bad guys myself, but I can't write a story. That's where I need help from Dungeon magazine. I want a series of adventures more along the lines of Terror/Death/Madness in Freeport, instead of RttToEE.
I'll be skipping Three Faces entirely in the two AoW campaigns I'm running, and using Devil Box (issue 109) and Cry Wolf (issume 122) as filler material before Encounter at Blackwall Keep. It won't advance the storyline any, but as far as I can tell, Three Faces doesn't either. But both are much more the story/character based sort of campaigns I'm trying to run.
Hopefully the "Age of Worms Overload" will give me enough info about the upcoming storyline that I can plant some clues. And hopefully Encounter at Blackwall Keep will be more my style.
I really don't understand what people don't like about Three Faces of Evil. I think it is a terrific change up from Whispering Cairn. Whispering Cairn was all about exploring an ancient tomb with a feeling of eery isolation. Three Faces of Evil is about a full on assault into the bad guys' fortress, where you have to overcome an intelligent, active defense. Wonderful variety here! Later, we're going to get some city action. Can't wait!
As far as there being a lot of grimlocks, I really don't see that as a problem given the nature of the adventure. You are, after all, assaulting a grimlock stronghold. There are a variety of challenges in these encounters so I really don't think your players are going to get bored. This is one section of one adventure, after all.
As for motivation, that's really up to you as the DM, although Mike does provide a couple of possibilities: loyalty to Allustan, mercenary benefit from Smenk. My players are likely to go out of curiosity and a sense of trying to defeat an evil threat.
As for RPing, the entire town of Diamond Lake is still there, and I imagine the players will need to return to it at least once, so there is just as much opportunity for RPing. In fact, RPing is nicely set up as a way to start the adventure: talking to Allustan or Smenk, bribing or otherwising dealing with the guards/miners, trying to talk past the two guards at the bottom of the elevator shaft who think you are making a delivery, etc. Theldrick clearly wants to talk, and I doubt the other two BBEGs are going to just mutely fight to the death. They may die, but that doesn't mean they don't talk first. (And whoever said the players won't even get to know the grimlock leader's name is just wrong--it's written in Theldrick's journal.)
Although most of the NPCs introduced in this adventure are likely to die, so what. The really important ones so far have been introduced in Whispering Cairn: Allustan, Smenk, Dourstone, the other mine managers, the rival adventurers, whoever the PCs work for in town. They aren't going anywhere just yet. If each new adventure introduced NPCs that were meant to survive, we would soon be overcome with important NPCs, when we really just need a few. I say it's great that the PCs have the opportunity to totally clean out this rat warren and save their town from this particular threat.
As far as not moving the story along, I really don't get that. This adventure reveals tons of material about the plot. I'm not sure what you're not seeing. Not only that, the "flow" of information and encounters in the adventure makes for a quite a story of its own in my opinion.
And it's just filled with exciting, cinematic, interesting moments. There's fighting the husband and wife clerics of Hextor, knocking over the statue of the Ebon aspect to reach the balcony level of the Battle Temple, the encounter with the grimlocks on the rope bridge, etc. Cool stuff!
My only real beef is that the adventure *does* seem to be too big a challenge for a third level party (note that Whispering Cairn was also overpowered, with the really tough encounters frequently coming when the PCs were still 1st level). Given that this is an AP, I really want the PCs to survive. So, I'll probably either nerf the encounters a tad, make sure the PCs have help (Melinde?), or give them a side trek or two to get them to higher levels before attempting this adventure.
Long and short of it: I loved Whispering Cairn and I really love Three Faces of Evil, too! In my opinion, Mike has created a true gem of an adventure, and I have to agree with an earlier poster that this will be one of the most memorable of the whole AP.
If the rest of the Age of Worms is as good as the first two installments, this AP could become an instant classic.
Are any other subscribers still patiently awaiting their issue of 125? I'm starting to get worried...
My main problem with Three Faces of Evil isn't a lack of motivation, or even the lack of role playing per se; it's the lack of pacing. It's a total slugfest from the moment the elevator hits the temple floor.
Whispering Cairn mixed it up nicely. There were puzzles, interesting combat areas, traps, etc. The players left the cairn, fought some battles and interacted with some NPC's, then came back later. There was an actual story there that the players participated in.
In contrast, TFoE feels like just an endless horde of monsters thrown at the players until they gain enough experience to move on to the next installment.
When my players finish up Whispering Cairn, I think I'll do as another poster suggested and split up TFoE into three separate temples in different locations. In between I'll add some role playing opportunities to connect the different locations and add a break in the tension. I'm also going to thin out the module by removing similar encounters (when you only get one session a week, every encounter has to be memorable). Maybe I'll mix in the Devil Box in between (modified so that the Emporium takes the place of the travelling carnival, of course). I'm also going to have to figure out a way to introduce the Faceless One early on.
Okay i admit i "skimmed" the posts and i dont understand what the problem is ive only played the first adventure, (i dont have a subscription so i await it at my local bookshop.) But all my NPCs have survived even Filge. The party knows that Balabar runs the town including the garrison so when the finally got to him they beat him, he gave up. the took some stuff from him, (not his spell book or items within his eyesight), basically the group came to this conclusion that to bring Filge in to the garrison is pointless becuse there owned by Balabar so whats the point? same with the albino orc, no point? the spend there time trying to figure out how to "de- throne" Balabar. then to top it off ive added in some gangs that wander about town using skermish cards for cool NPCs so far the party must watchout for Kullan And The Gang, The Frount Street Boys, Filge, those NPC adventures in the book??? (Which ive named The Grimlocks), and gang of halflings that pickpockets 'bout everything (no name yet). No longstanding NPCs sorry guys i just dont understand???
PS. I think after this my players deserve a "slugfest", bring it on!
|
I'm also going to have to figure out a way to introduce the Faceless One early on.
Something about the Faceless One makes me see him as a silent watcher of the PC's actions. Say they're shopping in the marketplace. While the rest of the PCs haggle over the price of the wierd red pedestal, have a more disinterested PC make a Spot check to notice the eerie hooded figure wearing a mask watching them from across the market. When he turns to tell his companions, the figure is now gone. Play some eerie music whenever it happens, if possible- strange bells, or chanting would work (Buddhist chants are amazingly creepy to Western ears). Play if off as a wierd trick of the eye- until it happens again, maybe as the PCs go through Smenk's lab, the same PCs eyes will wander to a window where a lone, robed figure stands hundreds of feet away in the observarory's surrounding fields, looking through that exact window.
Don't forget, the Faceless One's got ways of knowing something's up. He sent the googly-eyed lurking stranglers into the cairns- when the Whispering Cairn's strangler doesn't come back, and a bunch of locals start throwing all that loot around, him and his 21 Intelligence will put two and two together. His kenku allies would make excellent spies- why shold the Hextor cultists be the only ones seeing the outside world? You could even mix it up with the occasional kenku sighting- as the PCs are bedding down in the mine office, they hear noise outside. They gather a few weapons and a torch and head out, only to catch glimpses of figures darting into the shadows of the surrounding environs. Perhaps while out in town, a PC should hear someone surprisingly close to him speak to him and use his name- in his own voice, and turn to see nothing.
I don't know about you, but after I felt like I was being watched, I'd like to find out what the heck was up. And when I found notes form the Faceless One warning the other cultists that me and my friends (mentioned by name) were coming, I'd pee myself.
Paranoia is a good thing.
Or maybe all those Dark*Matter books got to me.
I don't know about you, but after I felt like I was being watched, I'd like to find out what the heck was up. And when I found notes form the Faceless One warning the other cultists that me and my friends (mentioned by name) were...
I love it..why did I feel like I was having an x-files moment when reading this..
Diamond Lake is all a big Conspiracy.
the truth is out there
Wow, those are great ideas, N'Wah. I really like the Faceless One as a villian, he's got the perfect combination of creepy and bad ass. I do like the combat encounters and the villians in TFoE, I'm just gonna stretch 'em out a bit. Maybe involve some more NPCs from Diamond Lake.
Are any other subscribers still patiently awaiting their issue of 125? I'm starting to get worried...
I am patiently waiting... well not so patiently since I am checking my mailbox before the mailman can get to the next box.
Also, I agree. N'Wah had some excellent ideas that I will definitely begin to weave into my game. Thanks.
|
Don't forget, the Faceless One's got ways of knowing something's up. He sent the googly-eyed lurking stranglers into the cairns- when the Whispering Cairn's strangler doesn't come back, and a bunch of locals start throwing all that loot around, him and his 21 Intelligence will put two and two together.
The strangler in the Cairn felt a bit flat for me; I knew it had been sent there by the Vecna cultists, but there's no way for the players or PCs to realise that. It's just some wierd creature that's just there.
I think I'll add a lurking strangler to the Vecna temple, maybe curled round The Faceless One's neck like a scarf, or being stroked in his lap, like Blofeld's cat.
His kenku allies would make excellent spies- why should the Hextor cultists be the only ones seeing the outside world? You could even mix it up with the occasional kenku sighting- as the PCs are bedding down in the mine office, they hear noise outside. They gather a few weapons and a torch and head out, only to catch glimpses of figures darting into the shadows of the surrounding environs. Perhaps while out in town, a PC should hear someone surprisingly close to him speak to him and use his name- in his own voice, and turn to see nothing.
I like this; kenku are great antagonists.
Depending on how big you imagine their beaks, they could disguise themselves with those 'plague doctor' costumes, from Curse of the Crimson Throne, or Heironymous Bosch paintings.
|
I used the Kenku outside the temple in my campaign. The party had tried to meet with Smenk at his house, only to discover that "something" had gotten there first. Several of his thugs, as well as his pet dire apes were slaughtered. Blood was everywhere and the place was ransacked.
What freaked the party out was that they found large, black feathers around the areas with the most blood. I had already planted seeds in the story with ominous appearances of crows in earlier scenes, including a shared nightmare, so this worked well.
By the time they got to the Labyrinth, the kenku were more than just things to kill.
By the way, the Kenku kidnapped Smenk and brought him to the Faceless One for punishment (remember the rotten food he sent them?).
Smenk is now "changed" (undead template and taint rules from Heroes of Horror) and has been a recurring villain who has grown in power as the party has. Whenever he shows up, it's a bad day.