i've got a lich that's bothering me


Shackled City Adventure Path


i'm going to run the enconter with the lich in TotSE the one where you are suposed to summon monsters I was looking at the choises of summoned monsters and was kinda board with them. I thought it would be fun to have a themed summon list like UA talkes about however I want to do an insect list.

Here is my problem and the point of this post I can't find a good pattern between HD and CR for each summon monster spell so it's hard to subsitue creatures in the list UA says to switch with monster of app power level but I don’t know what they mean. It's not a list by CR witch is what I would think power level is all about.

thanks


lordmolay wrote:

i'm going to run the enconter with the lich in TotSE the one where you are suposed to summon monsters I was looking at the choises of summoned monsters and was kinda board with them. I thought it would be fun to have a themed summon list like UA talkes about however I want to do an insect list.

Here is my problem and the point of this post I can't find a good pattern between HD and CR for each summon monster spell so it's hard to subsitue creatures in the list UA says to switch with monster of app power level but I don’t know what they mean. It's not a list by CR witch is what I would think power level is all about.

thanks

That's always bothered me. Why should summoned vipers always be a much lower CR than other summoned creatures? It might be a calculation about how much harm a creature can inflict within the limited time frame of the summoning (poisons, for example, can do harm even after the creature vanishes).

I was thinking you could look at the vermin on the list as a guideline, but even they vary (Summon Monster 5 gets you a CR 4 Scorpion while Summon Monster 4 gets you a CR 4 Mantis or a CR 3 Spider).

Here's my recommendation:
Summon Monster 6 gets CR 7-8 creatures
Summon Monster 5 gets CR 5-6 creatures
Summon Monster 4 gets CR 3-4 creatures
Summon Monster 3 gets CR 1-2 creatures

You should probably decide for yourself whether to push your players or be more conservative. Remember they get no experience for all these beasties (at least, not directly).


You posted this same question on another board...and my answer here will echo the one there.

If you look at the ENTIRE list of vermin, you'll find that with the exception of the Ants and the Fire Beetle, EVERY lower-CR vermin, in either a fiendish or celestial flavor, is already on the Summon I-VI lists. What more do you want, if you already have just about every type of vermin known to the game?

You could substitute Summon Swarm for one of his 2nd level choices, if desired. I suppose you could even replace one of his 5ths with Insect Plague if desired. I'm not sure what more you're looking for.


I apprecate your help everyone... and andorax i posted here first but i thought it was a little two technical and decited to post other places to see what kind of respoces i would get...

Thanks.... i still don't like how they did summon moster but i think i know what i'm going to do with it


Just had another idea entirely (as I'm setting up, myself, to prep for this fight).

Libris Mortis has Summon Undead I to V, and one of Myaruk's first tactics is to cast a Desecrate. If you know enemy clerics won't just insta-dust them, you might want to mix some of those in for variety sake (or even specialize out on them).

My group has no turn capability, so I think I'm going to use this myself.


my party has one strong cleric and one cleric of pelor that's not as strong, they also have a paladen and one of my players has a +1 holy long sword with all of that i don't think that undead would be all that powerful against them... the last few times they faught low level under they beat the crap out of them way to fast... I still like the insect idea... but thanks for the help

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