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Is there a black hole in the submissions room at Paizo?


Dungeon Magazine General Discussion

1,651 to 1,700 of 1,820 << first < prev | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | next > last >>

Ahwe Yahzhe wrote:
James Sutter wrote:

CONFESSIONS OF A GATEKEEPER #17:

"Sometimes, when nobody's around, I mark all the queries in the inbox as 'read,' and then hit 'undo,' just so that - for one shining second - I can feel what it's like to be all caught up on submissions...

-The Gatekeeper

rumorrumorrumorrumorrumorrumorrumorrumor...

Okay, that's out of my system. I have a quick question that I can no longer remember if the answer is already lodged somewhere in this labyrinthine thread. The proposal submission guidelines state that once you send a query, you should shortly receive either a quick rejection or acknowledgement that the query has been received. I also read that if you don't hear anything back from the Black Hole after a month to ask. If I get no e-mail reply that my proposal query has been received, should I pester the Gatekeeper, or wait a month? (The question is somewhat academic, since it's been three weeks since a sent my happy query and SDF to the Black Hole.) Thanks!

I don't think I've ever gotten an email reply to say the query has been recieved. Usually its either a "thanks, but no thanks" rejection email from the Gatekeeper, or more rarely, an email letting you know that the query made it past the Gatekeeper and will be reviewed further at the next meeting. (At which point you'll either get greenlighted to send in a manuscript, or get a rejection email)

That being said, I don't think anyone has heard back on a query in months. (Due to various things like the holidays, weather problems in Seattle, heavy workload on other projects, etc)

Qadira

Aye on the "not receiving emails" point, Talion. I sent my two queries in back in August to October (if memory serves) and I've heard neither hide nor hair about their rejection or green lighting for the meeting.

Paizo Employee Managing Editor

Once upon a time, in the brief and shining Good Old Days, you could expect to hear "no thanks" or "received and will be reviewed at the next meeting" within a month of sending your query. Unfortunately, those days are no longer with us. It's 99% likely that if you sent your proposal, it's sitting in our inbox, so Gatekeeper is going to continue to stay dark for a little bit while we get caught up on other things. (That means there's no need to send in "hey, did you get my queries?" emails until further notice - please just assume they made it.) I promise that all queries will be reviewed before the next submissions meeting (which, contrary to any rumors you may have heard, will not be happening any time soon).

Have faith, folks! Your queries are still alive and well!

Contributor

Just to kind of refresh everyone on how things have gone in the past, here's a quote from Erik on this very thread dated April 5, 2005:

Erik Mona, Grand Puba Publisher wrote:
We finished the Great Dungeon Adventure Meeting at approximately 6:40 PM this evening. Of the dozens and dozens of proposals that arrived over the course of the last three months or so, we decided to give the green light to something like eight or nine adventures. Young Jeremy Walker has the final tally, and will begin contacting authors as soon as tomorrow...

Maybe some time in April we'll get the word that a meeting has either happened or is in the works. We'll see what happens.


James Sutter wrote:

Once upon a time, in the brief and shining Good Old Days, you could expect to hear "no thanks" or "received and will be reviewed at the next meeting" within a month of sending your query. Unfortunately, those days are no longer with us. It's 99% likely that if you sent your proposal, it's sitting in our inbox, so Gatekeeper is going to continue to stay dark for a little bit while we get caught up on other things. (That means there's no need to send in "hey, did you get my queries?" emails until further notice - please just assume they made it.) I promise that all queries will be reviewed before the next submissions meeting (which, contrary to any rumors you may have heard, will not be happening any time soon).

Have faith, folks! Your queries are still alive and well!

Thanks for the quick response, Mighty Gatekeeper! I will withhold my pestering e-mails so it will be easier for you to filter through to the chocolaty goodness that is my query.

And thanks, Steve, for the prognostication- it helps for us aspirants who don't have adventures published in Dungeon on a regular basis.

You guys rock!


James Sutter wrote:


Have faith, folks! Your queries are still alive and well!

Hi James,

Not like you don't have enough to do but... if it's not too much trouble, can you post how many adventure proposals are in the inbox? Inquiring minds and all that...

Contributor

James Sutter wrote:
Have faith, folks! Your queries are still alive and well!

Really? Are you sure, because last time I saw my one proposal it was an undead abomination.


"Not like you don't have enough to do but... if it's not too much trouble, can you post how many adventure proposals are in the inbox? Inquiring minds and all that..."

I was just thinking the same thing. I've seen a fair number of posts in this thread where the writer states they've just sent off three to six new queries. I can only hope that the week I spent polishing my one and only query submission to shiny perfect brilliance will help it to stand out enough to get tapped for a manuscript request.

Paizo Employee Managing Editor

TConnors wrote:
Can you post how many adventure proposals are in the inbox? Inquiring minds and all that...

Sorry, folks - a Render never tells...


James Sutter wrote:

...

(That means there's no need to send in "hey, did you get my queries?" emails until further notice - please just assume they made it.)
...

James, does the same go for "hey, did you get my <b>manuscript</b>?" emails?

I sent a manuscript for an adventure back in September, and I've been holding back on emailing to check the status (The submission guidelines do list <b>waiting</b> as an important step in the process, lol)


Talion09 wrote:
James Sutter wrote:

...

(That means there's no need to send in "hey, did you get my queries?" emails until further notice - please just assume they made it.)
...

James, does the same go for "hey, did you get my <b>manuscript</b>?" emails?

I sent a manuscript for an adventure back in September, and I've been holding back on emailing to check the status (The submission guidelines do list <b>waiting</b> as an important step in the process, lol)

I have a manuscript in Dungeon and a pair in Dragon waiting since July, August and September respectively. Patience, which I sorely lack, is the name of the game (and not D&D like some would have you believe...


I need them hold off for a little while longer! I'm almost done with the development of a new adventure. I have to do some more work and then write up the adventure query.

Paizo Employee Managing Editor

Talion09 wrote:
Does the same go for "hey, did you get my <b>manuscript</b>?" emails?

Good question! The answer is a resounding "no" - if we've greenlit your proposal and requested a manuscript from you, and you sent it in but never heard back, you are more than welcome to ping us and make sure it came through. Please note as well that the Gatekeeper account is NOT for manuscripts or requested articles - those should go specifically to whichever editor requested them. In general, jeremy.walker@paizo.com is keeper of the manuscripts.

Thanks!


James Sutter wrote:
Talion09 wrote:
Does the same go for "hey, did you get my <b>manuscript</b>?" emails?

Good question! The answer is a resounding "no" - if we've greenlit your proposal and requested a manuscript from you, and you sent it in but never heard back, you are more than welcome to ping us and make sure it came through. Please note as well that the Gatekeeper account is NOT for manuscripts or requested articles - those should go specifically to whichever editor requested them. In general, jeremy.walker@paizo.com is keeper of the manuscripts.

Thanks!

Thanks James.

Hmm... the email address might have been the problem... The manuscript was requested by a specific editor (you actually, lol) but since the request came from the dungeon@paizo.com address, that is the email address I sent the manuscript to.

I'll fire off an email with the specifics.


I added another adventure query to the slush pile:

"Serpents of the Silver Scar" (3rd level - desert)

I'm hoping to have another one ready by the end of next week.


I have in two:

"A Dish Best Served Undead" and
"Big Tom and the Little Orphans"


Hey, don't forget to post them up in the Critique my Query thread. It's probably the best way of getting more feedback.


Neeklus wrote:
Hey, don't forget to post them up in the Critique my Query thread. It's probably the best way of getting more feedback.

Just remember that the Paizo staff would rather we only post rejected queries on the "Critique my Thread." If your query is still in the works you must be patient.


This seemed like the most appropriate place to pose this question, if not - move or delete the message.

I've decided to submit some adventure proposals, but have never done so in the past. I have submitted work to other places (other genres), but it was always on a hard copy by US mail. When submitting multiple adventure ideas, is it best to attach all the files on one email, or send out an individual email for each proposal?

My current experience with publishing is limited to literary journals, and the wave of technology (a la 1998) is just starting to reach them.

After a few years of trying my hand at literary short stories, I've decided to try my hand at a 20+ year hobby. I hope to succeed in both arenas, but am very much a noob when it comes to the RPG industry. I have ideas, and very much would like to see if those ideas have any merit...Jeez, I need to do *something* with these humanities/social science degrees I'm not using!

Thanks for a heads-up, or any advice an regular submitter/author can toss my way, I appreciate it.

Darin Dunphy


literati wrote:
...When submitting multiple adventure ideas, is it best to attach all the files on one email, or send out an individual email for each proposal?...

I believe that the editors prefer it to be one email per proposal. I usually include a quick introduction to the adventure in the actual email itself, and attach the word doc of the query, as well as the pdf of the Standard Disclosure Form.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Yeah, what Talion09 said, but get 'em in quick because any minute, the editors are going to have a MEETING!

Oh, and visit the Critique My Query thread elsewhere on these boards for hints on what to do and actually...more what NOT to do.


Thanks for the link - that was the noob place I was looking for.

A meeting! A meeting! Oh, Lords! Not a meeting! So much gets done when editors meet...(they bs back and forth for thirty minutes, while inhaling diet soft drinks, somebody finally says "maybe we should do something, huh?" - editor in chief. A random goth player shuffles the submissions, and weeps gently on the stack; where the tears land - a Dungeon writer is born).

Thanks for the advice, bookmarking now. I swear, I'm not that melodramatic in real life. My protag's name is R'qqet, and he wields duel tridents...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Also read the submission guidelines closely. They have a plethora of information on what kinds of adventures to offer and the format in which Paizo's editors want them.

It's worth the time to read this thread too, in addition to the Critique My Query thread. Many of the elements Paizo's editors are tired of appear in discussions here. For example (quoting Ahwe Yahzhe's accurate restatement from four pages back on this thread), the editors have stated that they want to see more of the following types of adventures:

MORE ADVENTURES NEEDED:
- Short (5,000-8,000 words)
- Low-level (1st-5th level)
- Forgotten Realms
- Eberron

They've also said on this thread that they do NOT want the following:

NOT NEEDED:
- Rescue missions
- Doppleganger murder mysteries
- Wacky evil wizards
- Undead / Goblinoid army invasions
- Borg assimilations / Possessed NPCs
- Straight dungeon crawls
- Anything that's appeared/will appear recently
(At last count, that included spiders and aranea, Shar, pirates, dinosaurs, aboleths, hell-related stuff, hags, weasels, stoats, goats, and rabbits.)


So...maybe no evil pig farmers who sacrifice the innocents to "Du-Roc", for a Bar-Row enhancement?

...sorry, grew up on a pig farm, that was one of my first adventure ideas back in 1987...

Actually, my first three ideas aren't on the instant reject list, so that's encouraging. I have to admit, though, it does take a bit of creativity to think outside the "dungeon crawl" box. I don't think I'm quite there, yet, but I will be pouring over these forums for the next few weeks to catch up.


Talion09 wrote:
I believe that the editors prefer it to be one email per proposal. I usually include a quick introduction to the adventure in the actual email itself, and attach the word doc of the query, as well as the pdf of the Standard Disclosure Form.

What Talion09 said, but I beleive the current SDF is in Word form.

GGG

Insert subliminal message here: Sehan = Good Yum.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

(pusher)


Ashenvale wrote:
(pusher)

Actually I just pushed my latest adventure offering, Ogre, through the internet and into the email box of endless adventure.

GGG
And remember the first vial of green welcome is always free.


Actually I think I'm more of a fiend as in I'm fiending for a meeting soon. So while I wait I give you this latest retro-entrant to the superdense Black Hole - The Lords of Norwold

G-to-the-three


Great Green God wrote:

Actually I think I'm more of a fiend as in I'm fiending for a meeting soon. So while I wait I give you this latest retro-entrant to the superdense Black Hole - The Lords of Norwold

G-to-the-three

So how many queries do you have in the Black Hole right now? lol

I thought I was being very prolific by sending in 4 queries so far, with a couple more in various stage of editing that will be submitted by the end of the week.

But I'm just humbled by the sheer amount of queries you send in, lol

*On a related note, how many queries have we each sent in? And any word on the current volume in the Black Hole? Is it approaching 4 digits yet? ;-)

Contributor

I still have 3 in the hole at the moment and I don't see that changing in the near future since I have other assignments pending first. Hey, 3 is the magic number, right?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Another CW article for the render.

GGG,

After the mythical meeting, could you post one of your queries in the critique my query thread? I would like to read one of them, or you could post all of them ....and make that thread even more popular than this one ;>


I currently have six in the submission pile and I'm working on the seventh.


Talion09 wrote:
Great Green God wrote:

Actually I think I'm more of a fiend as in I'm fiending for a meeting soon. So while I wait I give you this latest retro-entrant to the superdense Black Hole - The Lords of Norwold

G-to-the-three

So how many queries do you have in the Black Hole right now? lol

Hmmm.... ::pulls off shoe to count some more::

"Black Water" (Stormwrack/underwater)
"Blood and Ice" (Heroes of Battle/Frostburn/Mystara)
"City in the Depths" (Stormwrack/dungeon)
"City on the Edge of Shadow" (urban/planar)
"Cold and Alone" (Frostburn/horror)
"The Fish Singer" (Stormwrack/urban)
"Harbinger of the End" (planar)
"Junk" (epic/planar)
"The Lords of Norwold" (Heroes of Battle/Mystara)
"Ogre" (horror/investigative)
"The Pirate and the Princess" (one part of a collaborative arc/wilderness)
"Plague of Madness" (urban/horror)
"The Next War" (one chapter in a collaborative arc/Eberron)
"Spirit Dance" (diplomacy/challange/Mystara)
"Tiger, by the Tale" (humor/wilderness/dungeon/Mystara)
"Trollheim" (wilderness/Mystara)
"Valley of Gargantua" (collaborative adventure/wilderness/Mystara)
"The War Eaters" (urban/war)
"A Wolf Amongst the Flock" (urban/horror)

Uhh, by the looks of it though I've got one or two more collaborations that I could probably send in, and I'm probably forgetting one or two.

Note: these are just the adventures....
-GGG


Darkjoy wrote:

GGG,

After the mythical meeting, could you post one of your queries in the critique my query thread? I would like to read one of them, or you could post all of them ....and make that thread even more popular than this one ;>

Truth time: I'm not a huge fan of showing my rejected work in public for two reasons. 1) If my stuff is bad enough to warrant rejection based on style/format/grammer/choice of green crayons over word processor/etc... I figure why show off my screw ups. 2) I'm probably not done with half of the things I submit. If Paizo rejects my stuff because of too many Malar-worshipping pirate hag adventures then I can always shop them to another d20 company. Both of these points keep me quiet on these boards.

There is a third reason as well. In point of fact, I and everyone else who submits an adventure query are in competition with one another. This includes my fellow were-cabbages (many of whom are name brands on these boards), and while I trust my writing mates with my rejections, this forum is a bit too open for my tastes.

That's just me though.
GGG


Talion09 wrote:

But I'm just humbled by the sheer amount of queries you send in, lol

There was a time several meeting ago where I had out submitted everyone. The next time around Chris "Wereplaytpus" Wissel out did me by one or two adventures.... You'll notice Chris has been absent from the boards since then.....

Don't let this happen to you. ;)

The ever-hungry Great Green God


Great Green God wrote:

Hmmm.... ::pulls off shoe to count some more::

"Black Water" (Stormwrack/underwater)
"Blood and Ice" (Heroes of Battle/Frostburn/Mystara)
"City in the Depths" (Stormwrack/dungeon)
"City on the Edge of Shadow" (urban/planar)
"Cold and Alone" (Frostburn/horror)
"The Fish Singer" (Stormwrack/urban)
"Harbinger of the End" (planar)
"Junk" (epic/planar)
"The Lords of Norwold" (Heroes of Battle/Mystara)
"Ogre" (horror/investigative)
"The Pirate and the Princess" (one part of a collaborative arc/wilderness)
"Plague of Madness" (urban/horror)
"The Next War" (one chapter in a collaborative arc/Eberron)
"Spirit Dance" (diplomacy/challange/Mystara)
"Tiger, by the Tale" (humor/wilderness/dungeon/Mystara)
"Trollheim" (wilderness/Mystara)
"Valley of Gargantua" (collaborative adventure/wilderness/Mystara)
"The War Eaters" (urban/war)
"A Wolf Amongst the Flock" (urban/horror)

Uhh, by the looks of it though I've got one or two more collaborations that I could probably send in, and I'm probably forgetting one or two.

Note: these are just the adventures....
-GGG

Well, thats 19 on the list above, plus the couple you might have forgot, plus the other collaborations...

Well, that gives me something to aspire to anyways, lol


Great Green God wrote:


Truth time: I'm not a huge fan of showing my rejected work in public for two reasons. 1) If my stuff is bad enough to warrant rejection based on style/format/grammer/choice of green crayons over word processor/etc... I figure why show off my screw ups. 2) I'm probably not done with half of the things I submit. If Paizo rejects my stuff because of too many Malar-worshipping pirate hag adventures then I can always shop them to another d20 company. Both of these points keep me quiet on these boards.

There is a third reason as well. In point of fact, I and everyone else who submits an adventure query are in competition with one another. This includes my fellow were-cabbages (many of whom are name brands on these boards), and while I trust my writing mates with my rejections, this forum is a bit too open for my tastes.

That's just me though.
GGG

This is specifically directed at GGG, but feel free to respond with your experiences.

Aside from shopping Adventure ideas that were rejected by Paizo to other D20 companies, how often do you plunder those rejected queries for new ideas?

ie. If you had a cool adventure query, but it got rejected because the main villain was a Malar-worshipping Pirate Hag, do you ever just change up the one or two main elements why it got rejected, give it a little tweak, and re-submit it?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Great Green God wrote:
Darkjoy wrote:

GGG,

After the mythical meeting, could you post one of your queries in the critique my query thread? I would like to read one of them, or you could post all of them ....and make that thread even more popular than this one ;>

Truth time: I'm not a huge fan of showing my rejected work in public for two reasons. 1) If my stuff is bad enough to warrant rejection based on style/format/grammer/choice of green crayons over word processor/etc... I figure why show off my screw ups. 2) I'm probably not done with half of the things I submit. If Paizo rejects my stuff because of too many Malar-worshipping pirate hag adventures then I can always shop them to another d20 company. Both of these points keep me quiet on these boards.

There is a third reason as well. In point of fact, I and everyone else who submits an adventure query are in competition with one another. This includes my fellow were-cabbages (many of whom are name brands on these boards), and while I trust my writing mates with my rejections, this forum is a bit too open for my tastes.

That's just me though.
GGG

OK, so we are not going to see any of your queries. Another question to you and other writers: so you submit your query do you A) write the adventure anyway or B) wait until paizo get's back to you and then go....urrr what did I want to do again? ( the query might remedy that situation somewhat)


You definitely want to hold off writing anything, especially when it uses WotC-exclusive elements, otherwise you can't sell it to anyone but Paizo or WotC, and the chances of that, given the limited number of available adventure slots in Dungeon and WotC modules, is slim. Time is very valuable to a free-lance worker and you shouldn't waste it on a idea that may not garner any interest.
On the other hand, if you want to write for fun, go ahead.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

John Simcoe wrote:

You definitely want to hold off writing anything, especially when it uses WotC-exclusive elements, otherwise you can't sell it to anyone but Paizo or WotC, and the chances of that, given the limited number of available adventure slots in Dungeon and WotC modules, is slim. Time is very valuable to a free-lance worker and you shouldn't waste it on a idea that may not garner any interest.

On the other hand, if you want to write for fun, go ahead.

mmm, I get your point, but I am not a fulltime freelance writer (and at 5 cents a word can anyone afford to be one?). My goal at this point is getting one of my CW articles on the pile, after I've done that I can expand into the query business, which means competing with GGG's 19+ a month queries :>


Talion09 wrote:


This is specifically directed at GGG, but feel free to respond with your experiences.

Aside from shopping Adventure ideas that were rejected by Paizo to other D20 companies, how often do you plunder those rejected queries for new ideas?

ie. If you had a cool adventure query, but it got rejected because the main villain was a Malar-worshipping Pirate Hag, do you ever just change up the one or two main elements why it got rejected, give it a little tweak, and re-submit it?

All the time. Thought the elements I am most-likely to change are theme and mood. Take a simple "humanoid infestation" now do it in the style of a horror flick, or a slapstick comedy, or "300" or "Sands of Iwo Jima." In particular I love turning concepts that folks don't use on their head or presenting them in ways folks wouldn't ordinarily attribute to them but still make sense. Pushing the envelope is also a personal mission of mine as I come from a multi-game background. D&D was not my first game nor is it particularly my end all be all fave. I like lot's of stuff and I try to bring all my tools with me when I write.

GGG


Darkjoy wrote:

OK, so we are not going to see any of your queries. Another question to you and other writers: so you submit your query do you A) write the adventure anyway or B) wait until paizo get's back to you and then go....urrr what did I want to do again? ( the query might remedy that situation somewhat)

Actually I do have one or two queries posted on the "Critique" thread if you go back aways. I usually wait, why write a 15,000 word epic and invest all that time in statblocks when in the end it doesn't get accepted. I usually go into enough detail in the query that I can picture the adventure layout in my head but I'm still coming to terms with things like deadlines and word counts. There's always one more thing to drop in, one more cool peice to the puzzle that you don't think of until after you're knee-deep in it. I do know other people who plow through and write a first draft (I did something similar when I received a note from the editors asking for more detail).

As to John's point, it's true it is harder to rewrite an adventure that features fensir giants or yakfolk or scouts or other non-core elements, but it can be done. Simply come up with a new (and different) monster, class, feat, item, etc... that fits the bill (maybe better than the one you were thinking about using in the first place) or alter one that already exists (body-stealing doppelgangers for yakfolk, use a multi-class ranger/rogue instead of a scout or magically inclined troll for a fensir).

GGG


Darkjoy wrote:
John Simcoe wrote:

You definitely want to hold off writing anything, especially when it uses WotC-exclusive elements, otherwise you can't sell it to anyone but Paizo or WotC, and the chances of that, given the limited number of available adventure slots in Dungeon and WotC modules, is slim. Time is very valuable to a free-lance worker and you shouldn't waste it on a idea that may not garner any interest.

On the other hand, if you want to write for fun, go ahead.
mmm, I get your point, but I am not a fulltime freelance writer (and at 5 cents a word can anyone afford to be one?). My goal at this point is getting one of my CW articles on the pile, after I've done that I can expand into the query business, which means competing with GGG's 19+ a month queries :>

That's over six months dating back to late September. I'm not that fast. Though sometimes I can crank one out in an hour or two if the muse is with me, and the idea seems killer.

GGG
PS That is with a 40+ hour-a-week job and a couple of side projects not involving Paizo.

Contributor

I agree with John Simcoe for the most part about not committing yourself to writing up a manuscript that may not get the greenlight. If you happen to have a few pending projects it can really eat up your time. However, I am in the camp of "write the thing anyway for fun" since I enjoy running my adventures in my home game. The other thing is that you can shoot off queries to other publishers if it gets rejected and if the adventure is that good and already have a finished manuscript to deliver if they are interested. Such was the case with Escape from the forest of Lanterns, which was originally pitched to Dungeon.
I find that about half of the ideas I have are ones that are cool enough that I simply have to write it, regardless of what anyone else thinks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

You notice there hasn't been any new posts from ye eds in the last week or so? And they try to distract us with fancy bells n whistles here on the forums (with the alises,profiles,etc.) What's happenin' fellas? Do this mean what I think it means....?


Well, I just fired off my seventh query and it only took me a week and a half to develop it. Someday, I may be just as prolific as GGG. In any case, "The Red Death" (desert/underwater) now joins my other queries...


drunken_nomad wrote:
You notice there hasn't been any new posts from ye eds in the last week or so? And they try to distract us with fancy bells n whistles here on the forums (with the alises,profiles,etc.) What's happenin' fellas? Do this mean what I think it means....?

Meeting?! Has there been a MEETING?!


Shroomy wrote:
Well, I just fired off my seventh query and it only took me a week and a half to develop it. Someday, I may be just as prolific as GGG. In any case, "The Red Death" (desert/underwater) now joins my other queries...

Not to be out done, I've added "Univited Pests" to the list.

GGG


Great Green God wrote:

Not to be out done, I've added "Univited Pests" to the list.

GGG

I think I speak for everyone when I saw "AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!"

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