Now available in print and PDF here in the Paizo.com store!

I picked it up, so far I have only skimmed it. Not had time for more than that. But I did notice one thing that I didn't care for. That was the Jack of All Trades Feat. I liked the idea of it but not how you guys did it. Mostly because it is kinda a lousy feat for classes with only 2 skill points per level and a pretty decent feat for those with say 8 skill points per level. I think it really should have been a set number.

The Sorc and witch feat the names escape me as I write this. That adds to known spells. I really liked but wonder if they might be to good. But I am not a good judge as I always felt Sorc should get a couple of more known spells anyways.

Just giving some feedback is all. When I get some more time I will take a better look at stuff.

I picked it up, so far I have only skimmed it. Not had time for more than that. But I did notice one thing that I didn't care for. That was the Jack of All Trades Feat. I liked the idea of it but not how you guys did it. Mostly because it is kinda a lousy feat for classes with only 2 skill points per level and a pretty decent feat for those with say 8 skill points per level. I think it really should have been a set number.

The Sorc and witch feat the names escape me as I write this. That adds to known spells. I really liked but wonder if they might be to good. But I am not a good judge as I always felt Sorc should get a couple of more known spells anyways.

Just giving some feedback is all. When I get some more time I will take a better look at stuff.

We always appreciate feedback. We did look at the possibility of making Jack of All Trades a set number, but ultimately went with what is in the book. It actually went through a number of changes from the original concept to what is in the book.

The impetus for the Sorcerer's Gift & Witch's Gift feats was along your line of thinking, that Sorcerer's are a bit limited on number of spells known. It is possible that for some, it might give them more spells than they think a Sorcerer should have. However, in playtesting it was thought that the feat made the Sorcerer more fun to play, especially at lower levels, as they didn't have to cast the same one or two spells over and over and over all the time.

Yeah I was going to comment about the size of the PDF today too but i seen that was addressed in the other thread. I was wondering at first if this was some 300 page monster of the book or something :)

Having to spend a feat to get more spells known is probably a reasonably balanced trade.

I'm looking forward to someone reviewing this.

Having to spend a feat to get more spells known is probably a reasonably balanced trade.

That was what we thought as well. :)

One of the things we crave is feedback, so any comments you make are appreciated. A full review would definitely be useful to us!

I'm looking forward to someone reviewing this.

We did get a review over at DriveThruRPG. You can read it HERE.

Now that we've had a chance to see the Pathfinder witch can anyone give a comparison between it and the Paths witch?

When I get a bit more time hopefully later in the week I plan to review the product.

On a side note any word on the new PDF version that is smaller and when it will be up?

When I get a bit more time hopefully later in the week I plan to review the product.

On a side note any word on the new PDF version that is smaller and when it will be up?

We've got the smaller version up on DriveThruRPG, but not here yet. I'll be sending it to Paizo today.

Dark_Mistress wrote:

When I get a bit more time hopefully later in the week I plan to review the product.

On a side note any word on the new PDF version that is smaller and when it will be up?

We've got the smaller version up on DriveThruRPG, but not here yet. I'll be sending it to Paizo today.

Yeah I already bought it here though, so will just wait to reDL it here. Instead of buying it again, no matter how much you might like that :). So not a big deal was just wondering.

Yeah I already bought it here though, so will just wait to reDL it here. Instead of buying it again, no matter how much you might like that :). So not a big deal was just wondering.

It should be updated very soon, if not already.

Dark_Mistress wrote:

When I get a bit more time hopefully later in the week I plan to review the product.

On a side note any word on the new PDF version that is smaller and when it will be up?

We've got the smaller version up on DriveThruRPG, but not here yet. I'll be sending it to Paizo today.

It's in place now.

It's in place now.

Thanks Vic!

So do you get the .pdf when you buy the print version like with most Paizo products? I didn't see that listed anywhere.

So do you get the .pdf when you buy the print version like with most Paizo products? I didn't see that listed anywhere.

This isn't a Paizo product so as far as I know 4 Winds aren't doing that. Given it's hugely expensive, I'd be surprised if they or any other third party providers did. I'm still surprised that Paizo does, TBH.

So do you get the .pdf when you buy the print version like with most Paizo products? I didn't see that listed anywhere.

Try here

Gericko wrote:

So do you get the .pdf when you buy the print version like with most Paizo products? I didn't see that listed anywhere.

This isn't a Paizo product so as far as I know 4 Winds aren't doing that. Given it's hugely expensive, I'd be surprised if they or any other third party providers did. I'm still surprised that Paizo does, TBH.

We don't. *Subscribers* get free PDFs of their Pathfinder products when their subscription copy ships, but that's the only way to get a free PDF from us.

So do you get the .pdf when you buy the print version like with most Paizo products? I didn't see that listed anywhere.

Right now, the only place we are set up for PDF/print bundles is IPR.

Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

hunter1828 wrote:

Dark_Mistress wrote:

When I get a bit more time hopefully later in the week I plan to review the product.

On a side note any word on the new PDF version that is smaller and when it will be up?

We've got the smaller version up on DriveThruRPG, but not here yet. I'll be sending it to Paizo today.

It's in place now.

A question what's different between the old version and this smaller version now in place?

I must say this is a neat book! The Voyageur class caused me to do a double take when I saw it mentioned but having long had an interest in Canadian history the class is certainly welcome as are the canoe related material (Handle Canoe and types of canoes). New weapons are always welcome and the samurai and gladiator classes look like a solid addition especially the multiple focus possiblities for the samurai. The witch class should be interesting as well (to bad the APG playtest also has a good looking witch class but great minds and all that I guess) All in all well done.

A question what's different between the old version and this smaller version now in place?

Nothing different other than the file size. Just readjusted the file size of the cover, basically.

I must say this is a neat book! The Voyageur class caused me to do a double take when I saw it mentioned but having long had an interest in Canadian history the class is certainly welcome as are the canoe related material (Handle Canoe and types of canoes). New weapons are always welcome and the samurai and gladiator classes look like a solid addition especially the multiple focus possiblities for the samurai. The witch class should be interesting as well (to bad the APG playtest also has a good looking witch class but great minds and all that I guess) All in all well done.

That makes us very happy to hear! The Voyageur was a labor of love for me, as my non-gaming related career is in North American fur trade history. I've always felt there was a place for this type of character class in the game.

Sean's work on the Samurai and Gladiator were just as focused and intense. He did a bang up job there, and we were happy to have him on board with us with those classes.

The witch was also a special one for us, as we felt it needed to be done a certain way and that's what we went with.

Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

Got mine in the mail yesterday, and I was VERY impressed with the vast majority of the stuff. The Voyageur is already being used in my home game, as we had an NPC fur trader that works much better with this class than with that I'd used previously, and I already KNOW that the Gladiator will be seeing some heavy usage, due to the awesome pro-wrestling vibe it has on top of some great game mechanics. The Samurai actually SEEMS like a Samurai, which can be hard to do, and the witch was clearly a labor of love and can easily fill two or three different roles depending on the build. The new feats had some must-takes as well!

Special note should go to the NPC classes. The Sycophant amuses me endlessly, and I can already see the fun of utilizing it in my campaign, and the others are well-done as well.

My only (VERY minor) complaint was that the way that the Elemental Wizard was presented made it kind of difficult to tell at what level they got what abilities. Otherwise, this item was perfect. Can't wait for the next one!

Got mine in the mail yesterday, and I was VERY impressed with the vast majority of the stuff. The Voyageur is already being used in my home game, as we had an NPC fur trader that works much better with this class than with that I'd used previously, and I already KNOW that the Gladiator will be seeing some heavy usage, due to the awesome pro-wrestling vibe it has on top of some great game mechanics. The Samurai actually SEEMS like a Samurai, which can be hard to do, and the witch was clearly a labor of love and can easily fill two or three different roles depending on the build. The new feats had some must-takes as well!

Special note should go to the NPC classes. The Sycophant amuses me endlessly, and I can already see the fun of utilizing it in my campaign, and the others are well-done as well.

My only (VERY minor) complaint was that the way that the Elemental Wizard was presented made it kind of difficult to tell at what level they got what abilities. Otherwise, this item was perfect. Can't wait for the next one!

Glad to hear all of that! Thanks for letting us know!

Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

Got mine in the mail yesterday, and I was VERY impressed with the vast majority of the stuff. The Voyageur is already being used in my home game, as we had an NPC fur trader that works much better with this class than with that I'd used previously, and I already KNOW that the Gladiator will be seeing some heavy usage, due to the awesome pro-wrestling vibe it has on top of some great game mechanics. The Samurai actually SEEMS like a Samurai, which can be hard to do, and the witch was clearly a labor of love and can easily fill two or three different roles depending on the build. The new feats had some must-takes as well!

Special note should go to the NPC classes. The Sycophant amuses me endlessly, and I can already see the fun of utilizing it in my campaign, and the others are well-done as well.

I'm thrilled to hear all of that. Actually, professional wrestling was a significant part of the inspiration for the Gladiator's feats. While the classic Gladiator was the champion of the Roman colosseum, the fact is that "warrior as professional entertainer" is more universal and constant than that. Even today we have Mixed Martial Arts, Boxing, and Professional Wrestling as popular world-wide forms of entertainment. The larger-than-life personas of wrestlers and the like, brought into the fantasy realm.

I thought the Sycophant class would be a great tool for GMs to create memorable NPCs to really screw with a party, a useful ally that wasn't a disposable bazooka for encounters, or a "quest giver", so to speak.

The Heel and Face traits made it pretty clear where you were going with the Gladiator, and my exact first though upon reading the capstone ability of the class was that it will take 0.125 seconds for one of my players to use it to declare he's entering into a state of Hulkamania. :) It really fills a great role in any campaign whether you're building a backwoods cage fighter or a larger-than-life king of the ring. Great, great work.

The Sycophant definitely fills those roles nice. I imagine using one in the Bruce Campbell "snooty usher" role from Spider-Man II fairly soon, as well as scheming senators and the like. It fills a role that was needed for the d20 system in general.

The Heel and Face traits made it pretty clear where you were going with the Gladiator, and my exact first though upon reading the capstone ability of the class was that it will take 0.125 seconds for one of my players to use it to declare he's entering into a state of Hulkamania. :) It really fills a great role in any campaign whether you're building a backwoods cage fighter or a larger-than-life king of the ring. Great, great work.

The Sycophant definitely fills those roles nice. I imagine using one in the Bruce Campbell "snooty usher" role from Spider-Man II fairly soon, as well as scheming senators and the like. It fills a role that was needed for the d20 system in general.

That's exactly what we thought about it, too.

It's great to hear your feedback on the material. Would it be a huge imposition to ask if you could put your thoughts in a review of the book?

#7 on the RPG Countdown for the period between 29 November and 12 December 2009!

RPG Countdown

I know this is a bit late in the day but...Thank you for a decent take on the witch.I consider your version far superior to the 'official' PF one

I know this is a bit late in the day but...Thank you for a decent take on the witch.I consider your version far superior to the 'official' PF one

really? i gotta say i love the official witch

I know this is a bit late in the day but...Thank you for a decent take on the witch.I consider your version far superior to the 'official' PF one

Thank you very much for such a high compliment! The witch was my baby, so I'm especially thrilled to hear when people like her.

And we'll take compliments whenever they come, no expiration dates. :D

Connie
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

i have a question. for the samurais 1st level ability, what does 'meditation' do? the ability descriptions go from weapons/armor feats to weapon style (2nd level ability). it skips meditation all together.

i have a question. for the samurais 1st level ability, what does 'meditation' do? the ability descriptions go from weapons/armor feats to weapon style (2nd level ability). it skips meditation all together.

Meditation is explained under Bushido on page 19. It is the first part of Bushido after the Bushido entry begins.

Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

strongblade wrote:

i have a question. for the samurais 1st level ability, what does 'meditation' do? the ability descriptions go from weapons/armor feats to weapon style (2nd level ability). it skips meditation all together.

Meditation is explained under Bushido on page 19. It is the first part of Bushido after the Bushido entry begins.

Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

Thank you good sir!

Thank you good sir!

You bet! Thank you for the support!

Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

My Review as promised, just a lot later then I said. It wouldn't fit above and I couldn't cut it down anymore. So just doing it as a forum post.

Note I have not yet used this product in game to see how balanced some of it is. This is just my impression from reading it.

This product is 106 pages long.
Cover, table of content, Intro etc (5 pages)

Chapter 1 - Classes
The first chapter adds 6 new base(27 pages), 3 NPC(6 pages), and 3 PrC classes(all 10 level)(7 pages).
Anti-Paladin - d10, 2 skill points, all weapons and armor. Is very much a evil paladin. It is pretty much what you would expect. With a nice twist, instead of a mount they can choose a fiendish pet instead similar to a familiar.

Elemental Wizard - It replaces normal specialization with the 4 elements(otherwise a normal wizard). You pick one with a opposed school you can't learn. New spell list in later chapter. A well done elemental flavor wizard.

Gladiator - d12 HD, medium armor, 2 skill, with some interesting powers. But hard to use in a traditional none urban based game. Class starts with a debt to pay off, before they can leave. Interesting class but I felt it fits better as a NPC class.

Samurai - All saves are good, d10, 2 skills. all weapons(some samurai) light, medium and samurai armor. has 4 fighting styles similar to rangers in Single sword, Dual Wield, Spear, Long bow. The class seems well researched with tough restrictions like one would expect. I felt the class with the more social focused should have had 4 skill points per level.

Voyageur - d8, 4 skills, Light armor, simple weapons(with a few martial) medium BaB. Explorer is the focus. Interesting class but to many class abilities deal with canoes. Otherwise would have been a good alternate to the ranger as a more skill/social.

Witch - Spells like a Sorcerer. A divine class powers that increase in power with levels, broom(cleaning, protection from evil/good at 3 portals, fly, banishing outsiders.), Cast circle (non detection, protection good/evil, protection from spells), Grimoire (spell book), familiar, The class has 4 traditions (Black, Healer, Protector and Seer) each one has bonus spells, feats, circle power and rites(spell like abilities). A interesting take on a well tread class. I would have liked to have seen more traditions and some general rites added. I liked somethings better and some less than the PFRPG witch class.

Captain(NPC) - A leader for the Warrior NPC class. More skill based with abilities to help lead men in battle. I actually liked this class and feels it has a place if you use the Warrior NPC class.

Courtesan(NPC) - low BaB, d6, weapon armor(like rogue) 6 skills. Class abilities Negotiator (bonus to social skills), healer/Poisoner (good/evil), skill focus at 4th(every 3rd level after). I love the idea of the class, i honestly wish they had fleshed it out a lot more and made it a true base PC class.

Sycophant(NPC) - d8, 4 skills, all weapons and armor. abilities Rumor-mongering (social bonus for gossiping), Patronage (paying for a artist, give social bonus), weapon focus (rapier), Detente and Scheming (more social bonuses), favoring (favors owed, very interesting ability. But with no rules on how to gain more once used makes it less useful).

Child of Bast - PrC for cleric for god of cats. d8, 6 skills, +1 divine spell progression per level, exotic weapon(hand claws), cat empathy, 3 bonus feats, 2 skill bonuses, Darkvision, scent ability, Feline Apotheosis (+2 dex, Chr. safe fall, natural d6 claws. but permentaly gain cat like features). How i like PrC's very specialized and focused. The final power might be a bit to powerful, it is borderline for sure.

Crypt Stalker - Cleric/ranger PrC that focuses on hunting undead, d10, 4 skills. +3 cleric and +4 ranger spell progression. All the class abilities are about sensing or killing undead. Another very focused PrC.

The Envemoned - d8, 4 skills, medium BaB. Someone that over time makes their bodies filled with poison. All abilities deal with poisoning others with touches, kisses, claws etc. This class was ok. While focused this PrC just kinda felt there and just felt lacking in purpose and why.

Chapter 2 - Skills and Feats. (12 pages)
Skills (3 pages) - adds in new skill Handle canoe. Existing skills Crafts (adds in subskills for making canoes, meditative garden, spiritual tools), Perform (games, tea ceremony).
Feats (9 pages) - 58 new feats(will only comment on a couple)
6 feat add a +1 to a ability score and stack up to 3 times(I am unsure how balanced this is, seems a bit strong)
Jack of all Trades (doubles the skill points that level. I would have preferred a set amount. Weak for some classes and powerful for others)

Kiss Spell(allows touch or personal spells to be cast on another with a kiss. I thought this one was one of the more interesting feats)

Nine Lives(may reroll a failed skill or save check that would leave you with -1 or lower hp, but only 9 times ever. Neat feat but i think there should have been some way to recharge it but hard)

Sorcerers Gift(version for all spontaneous casters/Bards) This gives 2 extra spells known per level. Some I think will find this feat perfect and others to powerful.
All and all most of the feats seem pretty well done.

Chapter 3 - Spells (18 pages)
Spell lists for Anti-Paladin, Elemental Wizard and Witch. (12 pages)
Then 6 pages of new spells. All and all the spells seemed well done. Ranging from Elemental versions of magic missle, to a few spells dealing with reproduction (block seed, detect, Conception, mostly new elemental spells. I did like Wolf Guardian (creates a spirit wolf that gets AoO on anyone that attacks the witch)

Chapter 4 - Equipment and Magic Items
Weapons and Armor (9 pages) New weapons and armor for Gladiators and Samurai.
Equipment (2 pages) canoes, makeup, some toolkits etc.
Magic Items (3 pages) Items mostly for the classes/PrC's in the book. They are pretty interesting magic items.

Chapter 5 - Guilds, Clubs, and Organizations. (10 pages)
It list several Adventures Guild, Courtesan, Witch Coven, Royal Order of the White Lions of Elsith(knight order), Voyageurs Club. Each talks about the guild, some benefits for belonging, history and some key NPC's (no stat blocks).

The rest of the book is taken up with OGL, upcoming products and back cover. (4 pages)

Closing Thoughts. As a whole i liked the book. Most of the classes where well thought out and researched. Several are very much niche classes I feel that will only fit very specific games. Most of the rest of the book is dedicated to supporting the new classes/PrC's. I feel a couple of the base classes are more suited to NPC's and I would have liked the Courtesan expanded to a base class.

Power level seems pretty close but a few things seem a bit weak or powerful. Not sure enough to be concern but each GM should give them a good once over and decided for themselves. I couldn't give this product a 4 star for the price. I wanted too, what is good in the product tends to be very good, but felt it was a bit weak in a few area's. I noticed only a few spelling errors in the product. If I was allowed I would have given this product a 3.5 stars, but in this cases rounded down. Mostly cause this product is more of a niche product, if the classes/PrC's appeal to you it is a good pickup. If they don't it is a lot less useful.

My Review as promised, just a lot later then I said.

Thank you very much for the review!

The PrCs are especially cool. Very unusual and specific which is what I like

The PrCs are especially cool. Very unusual and specific which is what I like

I feel the same way about the PrC's. I like them very focused and specific and unusual is a plus. Which is why I liked these. The Envemoned fit the bill. But I can't put my finger on it, but I just felt this class was a bit lacking in something. I think for me it is just such a odd idea for a PrC that I have trouble seeing anyone do this besides a Assassin and in that case why not go Assassin PrC.

Silly wish we could give half stars for reviews.

As a side note I added a review of this over at ENWorld as well. Basically a copy and past of this one here.

MerrikCale wrote:

The PrCs are especially cool. Very unusual and specific which is what I like

I feel the same way about the PrC's. I like them very focused and specific and unusual is a plus. Which is why I liked these. The Envemoned fit the bill. But I can't put my finger on it, but I just felt this class was a bit lacking in something. I think for me it is just such a odd idea for a PrC that I have trouble seeing anyone do this besides a Assassin and in that case why not go Assassin PrC.

Silly wish we could give half stars for reviews.

I understand what you are saying but PrCs need not be only for PCs. The Envenomed could make an exciting and unusual NPC

As a side note I added a review of this over at ENWorld as well. Basically a copy and past of this one here.

Thank you!

Dark_Mistress wrote:

MerrikCale wrote:

The PrCs are especially cool. Very unusual and specific which is what I like

I feel the same way about the PrC's. I like them very focused and specific and unusual is a plus. Which is why I liked these. The Envemoned fit the bill. But I can't put my finger on it, but I just felt this class was a bit lacking in something. I think for me it is just such a odd idea for a PrC that I have trouble seeing anyone do this besides a Assassin and in that case why not go Assassin PrC.

Silly wish we could give half stars for reviews.

I understand what you are saying but PrCs need not be only for PCs. The Envenomed could make an exciting and unusual NPC

Yeah I know, but even when used for NPC's I still just felt like it was missing something. Right now at least for me, it just feels very tacked on for lack of better word. Like it is just there.

Question about the sentence "You also gain air immunity and can no longer be harmed by spells and spell-like abilities with the air descriptor." I am assuming the elemental wizard gets this at 1st level and not at 20th level.

BTW, between the fire elemental wizard and the leather vest from Luven Lightfinger's Gear and Treasure Shop I can totally recreate my favorite 2e character in PRPRG.

Thanks you very much,
Doug

Question about the sentence "You also gain air immunity and can no longer be harmed by spells and spell-like abilities with the air descriptor." I am assuming the elemental wizard gets this at 1st level and not at 20th level.

You are correct there.

BTW, between the fire elemental wizard and the leather vest from Luven Lightfinger's Gear and Treasure Shop I can totally recreate my favorite 2e character in PRPRG.

Thanks you very much,
Doug

Awesome! That's wonderful!

Robert
4WFG

Just curious but you guys do know this is listed twice on the 4wfg store location as a product yes? Just thought I would point that out.

Just curious but you guys do know this is listed twice on the 4wfg store location as a product yes? Just thought I would point that out.

I didn't realize that, no. I'll have the Paizo folks check into it.

Dark_Mistress wrote:

Just curious but you guys do know this is listed twice on the 4wfg store location as a product yes? Just thought I would point that out.

I didn't realize that, no. I'll have the Paizo folks check into it.

Fixed, thanks to the amazing Liz!

Cool, it wasn't a big deal. But thought it was odd and maybe a bit confusing to customers seeing it twice. So thought I would mention it.