Gary Teter Senior Software Developer |
BenS |
Removed some unkind comments. Let's not derail this right out of the gate.
I missed whatever those comments were, but my guess is they were about Logue. We'll see if I can keep my cool so this comment isn't deleted as well.
I understand why you're having that particular lineup for the convention, but having Logue there is dredging up very bad feelings for all of us he stiffed. Well, I can't speak for those who have forgiven him (I obviously haven't).
Mind you, he advertised for his company on your website, and I never would have given him money had I known what would have happened. Do I blame Paizo? No. But I think it's poor taste to have any association w/ him at all on a professional level.
Anguish |
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I've got a different view. Nick wrote absolutely top-notch material and I frankly miss his work. So frankly I'd love to see him return to the RPG writing career. Not that I think sitting on a panel means he's coming back, but one can dream.
No, I'm not out any cash. But even if I were, I would view things from a self-centered viewpoint. I want more Logue. I'd just make sure I bought it from Paizo, not directly.
Folks, "forgive and remember" is a good motto to live by. Especially if you want something from someone.
I wish I were able to attend.
DitheringFool |
Gary Teter wrote:Removed some unkind comments. Let's not derail this right out of the gate.I missed whatever those comments were, but my guess is they were about Logue. We'll see if I can keep my cool so this comment isn't deleted as well.
I understand why you're having that particular lineup for the convention, but having Logue there is dredging up very bad feelings for all of us he stiffed. Well, I can't speak for those who have forgiven him (I obviously haven't).
Mind you, he advertised for his company on your website, and I never would have given him money had I known what would have happened. Do I blame Paizo? No. But I think it's poor taste to have any association w/ him at all on a professional level.
Agreed whole heartily but forgiving and wanting my product and/or money back are two different things. Maybe he could take the time to explain to us what's going on? I could bring a thumb drive and he could copy over the Dark Vistas #1: Razor Coast, Dark Vistas #2: The Ebon Shroud, Dark Horizons #1: Cold Black, and The Known Universe Gazetteer files he has? I'd be happy to bring my paypal receipt.
No ill will, I just want what I paid for or my money back.
Blackdragon |
I think Logue has the potential to have this turn into a public lynching. People are angry about what happened with Razor Coast, especially those who still haven't gotten refunds (Rightfully so!) And while Nick has designed some of the best games I've ever run, I think that his baggage might lead to an ugly scene.
Blackdragon |
Agreed whole heartily but forgiving and wanting my product and/or money back are two different things. Maybe he could take the time to explain to us what's going on? I could bring a thumb drive and he could copy over the Dark Vistas #1: Razor Coast, Dark Vistas #2: The Ebon Shroud, Dark Horizons #1: Cold Black, and The Known Universe Gazetteer files he has? I'd be happy to bring my paypal receipt.
No ill will, I just want what I paid for or my money back.
The whole incident has kept me from preordering anything, even from Paizo. I had almost fell for the preorder of Razor Coast because I wanted to see if it could be converted to run as a sequel or continuation of Savage Tide, but I've been so glad that I decided to wait for it to be released.
marv |
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I am extremely happy about the choice of guests!
May I suggest the authors engage in a pre-CON signing activity of all the hard bound RotRL's expected to be sold at Piazocon and also given to Tier-1 GMs? This would be faster, prevent a long lined signing event, and encourage people to buy it at PiazoCON.
Any left over signed books could then be sold for a premium on the web site.
As a Tier-1 GM, I will not have the time to stand in line for such a signing.
Liz Courts Contributor |
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It is of course a real coup to have Rich Pett come over to the US, but the return of Steve Greer is also a big deal, in my view. He worked on some of the very earliest Pathfinder modules and it would be great to hear from him on his experiences.
Truth! He's returning to write a Pathfinder module with "No Response from Deepmar"—huzzah!
As Dark Sasha said, there are plenty of other threads around to air your grievances regarding Razor Coast. Please keep them in those threads, rather than here.baron arem heshvaun |
The above mentioned are indeed an amazing pool of talent; if but half of them were in attendance, that would already be well worth the trip, to have ALL of them there, well that took a lot of work on someone's part (I would guess Erik had a hand in all this, but others too no doubt).
What is also very important to remember is the guest list above threw their talent behind Paizo when the company's future was not as secure as it is now. The writers and artists helped in the years when Paizo had to make the shift from magazine publishers and simple web store to take the necessary steps that would lead them to be the RPG darling they would become (can you guys still be called that?! Your the queen belle of the ball now!). And while some gamers may readily forget that fact, I am sure there were some 'lean months' where not everyone at Paizo was sure a 10th year anniversary would look so blissful.
And for all you guys playing PFS at PaizoCon, as you wear shirts to show with pride the factions you may belong to, why don't you ask Mr. Nic Louge who thought up the idea of a secret faction war to begin with?
Then make sure to thank him.
Greg A. Vaughan Frog God Games |
GreatKhanArtist |
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Oh boy, I hope Logue brings his tower shield...
He made some mistakes and coming out to PaizoCon to face up to many still grieving fans is very brave of him. I really hope that the community at PaizoCon can come together as a whole and say:
"I forgive you."
Let's show that we are a gaming community and come together as one.
(I wouldn't mess with him anyway, he's some kind of martial arts master and swordsman.)
ShadowcatX |
Nor does "forgive and forget" and "acceptance no mater what" make for a stronger community.
I hope Logue makes a good showing at the Con, I hope he manages to come up with everyone's money (with appropriate interest), or the product that they are owed. Heck, I hope he comes back to the fold, from what I've heard, he's an exceptional talent.
Of course, I also hoped to win 600 million dollars on the lotto the other night. . . Hope in one hand . . .
Saint_Meerkat |
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I have mixed feelings about Nick being featured as a special guest. I appreciate his great work, but I am one of the Razor Coast pre-orders that has not gotten a refund. I thought that I had put it all behind me as a lesson learned. I guess I was wrong. I felt a little wrench in my gut when I saw his name on the list.
While I am not going to boycott the convention, stone anyone, or introduce myself to him as one of his victims, it does seem a little bit...what is the word I'm looking for...insensitive on the part of the planners to honor him. I don't know how widespread the incident really was, but it was certainly highly visible among the Paizo faithful.
I understand the theme. They're putting the band back together. I am all for him being there. But as a headlining special guest? There was probably a less controversial way to acknowledge Nic's excellent contribution to this fine product without seeming to overlook his behavior.
ThatEvilGuy |
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Whatever Nick Logue did in regards to his business and how many customers are upset with never getting refunds (let alone products) it doesn't take away from the fact that he was one of the 6 original authors of the flagship Adventure Path that essentially put Paizo on the road to where it is today. He's not being honored for being a lousy businessman, he's being honored for being a great adventure writer.
While I got off lucky in the whole SA debacle, being that I only pre-ordered the AGC and I can only imagine how angry some people, like DitheringFool who unfortunately pre-ordered the whole slew of products, have become (BTW Lou Agresta put forth a very generous offer to those of you who have pre-ordered the Known Universe Gazetteer, details available by clicky clicky. Please don't abuse this offer by lying to the guy. It's pretty decent of him to do what he's doing.) and PaizoCon may be the only place you can "meet the person who wronged you", please people, try not to ruin it for everyone by making a scene and chasing the guy off the stage with pitchforks and torches.
Richard Pett Contributor |
Gorbacz wrote:Celebrity Deathmatch: Vaughan vs Pett!There can be only one!
However, having never personally met the man, my understanding is he's something like a 6'4" blooded Saxon huscarl, so I think I may feel the flu coming on for that day.
Why I'm nothing but a quiet, bookish, slight fellow.
Come on Vaughn, 2 falls, 2 submissions or a knockout!
The thing that worries is that I know there is most definitely not only one Mr Vaughn, plus he never sleeps so he must be a vampire, so we aught to have a better way to decide who is the one...
Can't wait to come - huzzah!
Dragnmoon |
That is an impressive list, I am looking forward to meeting many of those I have not met before and meeting again those I have.
I have fond memories of getting to meet Nicolas Logue, Richard Pett and Wayne Reynolds at GenCon UK 08, and definitely looking forward to meeting Greg A. Vaughan who I still think, like Pett says, never sleeps...
Would love to see a Call of Cthulhu game with Nicolas Logue, Richard Pett and Greg A. Vaughan in it... ;)
sozin |
Fantastic list! Can't wait.
Re: the whole Logue thing - I'm happy to see him there. Yes he owes me a little bit of money for the Anarchists Gamemaster Cookbook.
I now see it like I bought him a couple of of beers and and a snifter of whiskey to thank him for the fantastic gameplay he's brought me over the years.
Forgive and forget.
Add me to that Cthulhu game, Dragonmoon!
baron arem heshvaun |
Would love to see a Call of Cthulhu game with Nicolas Logue, Richard Pett and Greg A. Vaughan in it... ;)
Through the kindness and organizational skills of Lou Agresta I got to play a post apocalyptic dark super hero game run by Nic and played in by Greg and a half slumbering Tim Hitchcock (the man ran 10 slots and still took the PFS fans and his table GMs out for drinks!), and other Werecabbages at Gencon a few years back.
Through Lou's kind invitation again, last year I got to play in Brandon Hodge's supremely enjoyable Civil War Cthulhuesque Magnum opus 'Black Cow's Milk, Black Hen's Eggs.'
That game was singularly among the best one shot games I have participated in since I started gaming in the early 80's. I will thank Brandon every time I see him.
The Renaissance man and Slumbering Tsar Maestro Greg Vaughan played a Union Staff Sargent and NEVER broke character at the gaming table; that alone was the worth the price of the whole convention.
Adam Daigle Director of Game Development |
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Through Lou's kind invitation again, last year I got to play in Brandon Hodge's supremely enjoyable Civil War Cthulhuesque Magnum opus 'Black Cow's Milk, Black Hen's Eggs.'
That game was singularly among the best one shot games I have participated in since I started gaming in the early 80's. I will thank Brandon every time I see him.
Damn. That game is more than awesome. Love it!
Christina Stiles Contributor |
cibet44 |
Wow. Tons of comments about Mr. Logue! Sounds like it was a bit of an oversight to have him invited although it might have been even more odd to not have him invited. For those that are disgruntled about the invite, I wouldn't worry too much, he'll probably catch "the flu" at the last minute and not actually attend. That's typically how these things go. Maybe Paizo has some sort of plan in mind to rectify the situation for everyone.
Sounds like a fun line up though. Good luck all.
zylphryx |
Actually, I would love to meet both Logue and Pett to get a further glimpse into the minds of two of the more twisted designers out there. I know there are those who are upset at Logue being on the guest list, and while his later business endeavor was truly unfortunate, it should not detract from what he did have a hand in prior to that.
RotRL was a breath of fresh air when it came out; a series of adventures designed for adult players with adult themes. All the authors deserve recognition for their roles in bringing it to life.
Tim Hitchcock Contributor |
Todd Stewart Contributor |
Louis Agresta Contributor |
Hey all, I created a thread to bring the Logue commentary -- as well as an announcement about how to get your Sinister money back.
I figure maybe that'll let everyone talk about Paizocon here and Logue over there.
Zuxius |
Ah crap ... I'll have to bring the entire RotRL AP with me ... and pick up the hardcover ... and get signatures from all these folks on all of it ... the hardship! The HARDSHIP!!!
<shakes fist giddily>
Crap, you are right! That is going to suck but what a good excuse to meet all these guys.
zylphryx |
zylphryx wrote:Crap, you are right! That is going to suck but what a good excuse to meet all these guys.Ah crap ... I'll have to bring the entire RotRL AP with me ... and pick up the hardcover ... and get signatures from all these folks on all of it ... the hardship! The HARDSHIP!!!
<shakes fist giddily>
The only thing that would make the hardship even more would be if all the artists were there as well! ;)
<starts checking if any of the artists from the RotRL are listed as guests ... aside from Wayne Reynolds listed above ... cover artist is covered, so to speak. ;)>