I like it! Also, I'm glad these Andorans don't have those tiny little heads.
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I am still wary of the America Is Teh Awesome!!! potential of this product.
I'm just worried that I'll be grumbling: "Hey, you spilt some of your politics on my Pathfinder."
Of course, you may think it is wicked awesome when Soldiers are sent out under the banner of the eagle to liberate people in the name of democracy but i find it pretty odd that a campaign setting should make that statement.
I'm not looking forward to the modules in which PCs investigate the Nidal-Contra affair or get taken away by the Secret Eagle Police because they fight without a uniform.
Maybe none of these things will happen but it brings these things to mind because it's so clumsy and explicit. None of the other cultural analogues take such an extraordinary tone as has been suggested in this blog and some of the messageboard posts.
As I've said several times now: the USA isn't the only model for Andoran. France is, too--and not all revolutions in France turn out like Galt. You'll also note that France's flag is blue, white, and red.
And naturally this will be a chance to play around with those messed up aspects of democracy, too.
It's just a guidebook. We can make of it what we want.
As I've said several times now: the USA isn't the only model for Andoran. France is, too--and not all revolutions in France turn out like Galt. You'll also note that France's flag is blue, white, and red.
As is those of the United Kingdoms, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Iceland, Norway, Russia, Thailand, the vast majority of the various Slavic nation-states in central and eastern Europe, and so on for quite a long time.
My point was that redwhiteblue+revolution+democracy isn't always = America, it can = France. And other countries, of course, but we're an American company and it's easy to assume an American bias. ;)
My point was that redwhiteblue+revolution+democracy isn't always = America, it can = France. And other countries, of course, but we're an American company and it's easy to assume an American bias. ;)
Well, the eagle narrows it down a bit. ;)
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And France is, of course, a country which prides itself on its plain but wholesome food, scorning fancy cuisine
"Likewise, the cattle in the plains
near ________ produce steaks of exceptional
quality, and the farms of the rolling grasslands
bring in corn, alongside a wide array of other
vegetables. The colder north sees apple, cherry,
and pear trees, while certain portions of the
coastline of the Inner Sea sport orchards of
orange, lemon, and lime."
Very French.
I also think it's very French that we're told the only internal problems are guilds and monopolists. Seems like the banks are probably too big to fail as well.
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I don't really know why this is bugging me so much. I think I just like my setting a bit more nuanced. The magical-land-of-wonderful-fairness needs some flaws, just like all the rest. I have no idea how to square this with Falcon's Hollow.
I guess I'll have to work on the basis that Spirit of Liberty was written by one-eyed Andoran patriots and create my own seedy side, which is a chore.
Remember that Andoran, Spirit of Liberty is a (player-oriented) Pathfinder Companion book, so it doesn't have any spoilers or GM's-eyes-only information. There's ugly stuff in Andoran, just like there is in any country, but the second- and third-generation patriots of democracy are still optimistic and hopeful.
Also, we didn't want Andoran to end up as, "yeah, it's a democracy, but still a crappy place, so freedom and voting and such doesn't matter at all." It would suck if our game world's one democracy was doomed to fail because the authors were pessimistic or felt they had to point out that corruption goes hand in hand with power, no matter how it's distributed.
Romans, Nazis? which one did you mean?
Alas, the Romans and Nazis don't also have the red+white+blue (and the National Socialists overthrew the Weimar Republic, so they were backards). But the Romans set up a Republic--in fact, it's where we get the word (res publica). ;)
Otherwise, yeah, there are many nations that have used the eagle as their national symbol.
Right, the combination of red, white and blue with an eagle points to US-american symbols. I see predominantly blue and white there, however - red is not strong in the Andoran color scheme. It is not too close IMHO.
The eagle is a symbol for immortality, courage, vision and strength, and is the king of the sky and messenger for the highest gods (according to wikipedia). Especially the courage, vision and strength part make it a very fitting symbol for any democracy. The "king of the sky" part explains why it is so popular for royality and ruling, and appears in countless heraldic designs, often with two heads (Holy Roman Empire, Russia, Austria, Byzantium).
The gods commonly associated with the eagle are Zeus, Jupiter and Odin.
Stefan
Right, the combination of red, white and blue with an eagle points to US-american symbols. I see predominantly blue and white there, however - red is not strong in the Andoran color scheme. It is not too close IMHO.
Yep, aside from imagery, there is practically nothing similar between the United States and Andoran.
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Also, we didn't want Andoran to end up as, "yeah, it's a democracy, but still a crappy place, so freedom and voting and such doesn't matter at all." It would suck if our game world's one democracy was doomed to fail because the authors were pessimistic or felt they had to point out that corruption goes hand in hand with power, no matter how it's distributed.
I'm sure I used the word nuanced.
I don't think Taldor is a crappy place because it's flawed.
I don't even think Cheliax is a hopeless case despite the presence of House Thrune.
Societies are analogue, not binary: imperfect is not the same as crappy.
How does Darkmoon Vale fit into the magical-happy-land-of-invincible-freedom?
How do you create a rebellious Andoran character who isn't just a stroppy, self-important teenager?
How about a player who wants to play an Andoran PC that is secretly working against her government?
Is there no conflict in this society? No tension?
I'm not saying a perfect world is a bad thing, I'm just saying that it's not much of a place to set a story.
So far it seems like Andoran characters are supposed to leave Andoran to go kill people from 'inferior' societies, all of the conflict and threat comes from outside (it's even weirdly one-dimensional that Andoran seems to have no allies).
It would suck if the game world's one democracy was doomed to banality because the authors were afraid of being pessimistic with their America analogue or felt they could not suggest that corruption often goes hand in hand with power, no matter how it's distributed.
It would suck if the game world's one democracy was doomed to banality because the authors were afraid of being pessimistic with their America analogue or felt they could not suggest that corruption often goes hand in hand with power, no matter how it's distributed.
We had very clear marching orders that Andoran was, at its core, good. However, I did try to instill a sense of moral ambiguity in the fluff sections I wrote, which were government section, banks section, resources section, the lumber consortium section, & slavery section.
For example, in the Lumber Consortium section, I point out that the People's Council looks the other way and views them as a "necessary evil," showing that even the epitome of goodness and decency will turn a blind eye to suffering if there's a profit in it. I also point out how House Naran lobbies extensively for them, alluding that one of the most powerful banks--and consequently most powerful entities--of Andoran might not be strictly motivated by freedom and liberty for all.
Even in the slavery section, I explain how the freedom and granting of land and ownership to slaves after the People's Revolt may have been motivated by more than a mere desire for justice. And so on throughout the sections.
There is plenty of room for shades of gray in Andoran, but it's important to note that, at least for the time being, the fledgling nation does more good than harm, and that a majority of its citizens truly believe that they are pioneering a truly noble cause for all free-thinking people everywhere.
How does Darkmoon Vale fit into the magical-happy-land-of-invincible-freedom?
Darkmoon Vale is a symbol of some of the underlying corruption that you seem to be craving. The free market economy pushing constoriums into taking some pretty unethical measures. The overall ideals of the country are high and noble however they are being twisted in some cases to make profits at the expense of others.
How do you create a rebellious Andoran character who isn't just a stroppy, self-important teenager?
How about a player who wants to play an Andoran PC that is secretly working against her government?
My angle on this would be to create a character who believes that though the people of Andorian have the best of intentions and morals, they lack the divine birthright to manage the country properly. Eventually the conflicting beliefs of the masses will lead the nation into chaos. A strong fist is needed to take the reins of leadership and guide the Andoran people to the greatness that is their manifest destiny. The rebellious Andorian seeks to put the govenerment back in the hands of an Emperor who can better harness the will of the confused mob.