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Pathfinder Playtest Adventure: Doomsday Dawn

1.50/5 (based on 2 ratings)
Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook

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The Final Countdown!

Mysterious ancient artifacts from sand-choked Osirion count down the years until a rare planetary conjunction that will align Pathfinder's world of Golarion with the hostile planet Aucturn, allowing the ravenous hordes of the Dominion of the Black to surge forth and harvest the brains of the Inner Sea, remaking the world in their terrible, alien image. Doomsday Dawn takes the heroes on a decade-long journey throughout Golarion as they attempt to understand and defeat the otherworldy menace and avoid utter catastrophe. This collection of seven multi-encounter scenarios is designed to introduce the Pathfinder Playtest rules in a guided, shared playtest experience coinciding with regular surveys and feedback from players like you!

ISBN-13: 978-1-64078-087-3

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1.50/5 (based on 2 ratings)

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Not worth touching - shame for the story

1/5 —

This might have yielded good playtest data - I can't judge that aspect. I have run most of those parts until my group broke apart, and running it dealt quite a bit of damage.

Part 1 starts badly and the map is largely to blame for that, but things get worse. Considering the math of the playtest, and the encounter design of this adventure, it felt unfair and was absolutely not a positive experience.

My players forced themselves to play as much as they could to generate some playtest data, but I kinda hope that this one just gets forgotten.

Other reviewers like Endzeitgeist have taken more time and skill to describe the problems I had with this adventure, but it really left a bad taste and managed to kill a lot of hype for PF2. I really hope that the final product is worth it.

Looking at the feedback and grieve my players have given me, as something that was supposed to be enjoying it failed.

A Cursory Dissection of Doomsday Dawn

—

An Endzeitgeist.com article

So, honestly, I wrestled with myself on whether or not to post this, because, ultimately, I don’t want to come off as a doomsayer or overtly negative regarding a system I am very much excited for. However, multiple folks asked me to share my thoughts on the subject matter of this adventure-anthology, so here goes.

It should be noted that this is no traditional review; the reasons for this will become evident over the course of this discussion. I will not dissect this module regarding its mechanics, as, considering the playtest-nature of the whole enterprise, that wouldn’t really be helpful – particularly due to the fact that I think that the problems of this adventure do not lie within either mechanics or the playtesting module concept per se.

I am going to SPOIL a lot of Doomsday Dawn’s plot, so if you haven’t already finished it, please be aware of that. I also assume that you know about the module’s plot below.

…

..

.

So, Doomsday Dawn is a bit of a centaur-like entity, if anything. It is very ambitious in that it attempts to do multiple things that are, at least to a degree, in direct opposition to one another:

Provide a nostalgia-infused sendoff for Pathfinder’s 1st
Deliver meaningful playtest data, which requires pitting players against situations that strain the systems of the game (and thus aren’t always fun).
Tell an epic story across multiple years.
Showcase the amazing stuff that PF Playtest/2 can do.

If this sounds familiar to some of you, then that obviously would be because it is, in some aspects, reminiscent of the practices of early access AAA-videogame development, with the crucial difference that Paizo actually has the means and desire to listen to the feedback of the fans, and, at least as far as we could see so far, really takes our concerns to heart. This is no fake BETA like Fallout 76, Anthem, et al.

That being said, I often encountered two points of view:

“Doomsday Dawn isn’t fun for reasons xyz.”
“Yeah, because it has to deliver playtest data!”

The problem with this type of reasoning is that this is not necessarily what Doomsday Dawn was sold as. Sure, being intended for playtest purposes is fine and all, but a more pronounced caveat would have mitigated some of the backlash the adventure (and system) received. In a way, the advertisement of Doomsday Dawn was one component that set it up for, at least partial, failure.

To be frank, I don’t think that Doomsday Dawn succeeded at fulfilling its ambitious baseline, but not due to the reasons that most folks would expect, and not due to how advertising it was handled.

Instead, I think that the crucial failure of this adventure-compilation is, ultimately, one of scope and scale, depending on how you look at it.

So, let’s start from the top – let’s talk about the overarching story.

I actually genuinely like it. The call-backs to classic modules, the way in which Doomsday Dawn presents an obscure and cataclysmic threat, the notion of mindquakes, the sheer stakes – the story is great. Reading about The Last Theorem and The White Axiom made me excited, nay, stoked – this notion of language shaping reality ties in with several theories near and dear to my heart, and as soon as the module’s full scope becomes evident, it can genuinely send a shiver down one’s spine.

The problem of Doomsday Dawn, from a narrative point of view, is that it takes quite a lot of time to convey the atmosphere and stakes, and that the playtesting, and, more importantly, lack of room available to develop the narrative, get in the way of fully appreciating the inspired concepts of the meta-plot.

Don’t believe me?

Okay, tell me 5 details about the good guys, the “Esoteric Order of the Palantine Eye.” I’ll be waiting.

Yeah, figured.

Okay, know what my impressions were? “Generic esoteric order that’s secretive for no reason, and they’re obviously utterly incompetent. Their guys slip up and tell hired muscle they’re working for a secret order? IRL, that’d be the time when I’d be out of the door.” We also have NO IDEA about their resources, customs, what they stand for, etc. – they are entirely defined through their opposition to the bad guys. We have no ideas about symbols, greetings, etc. A simple, small sidebar with at least a few details could have a) vastly enhanced the roleplaying interactions and b) actually made the PCs and, more importantly, the PLAYERS, invested in the order.

This would particularly have helped during the “intended TPK scenario”, which casts the PCs as hired muscle for a cause they don’t understand. This lack of connection makes the whole chapter feel, also in the read-aloud text, like a module-version of “War. War is hell.” There is no reason to sacrifice yourself per se, apart from the words of your superiors. The cause doesn’t seem worth it from a PC perspective. From a player-perspective, at this point things look better, but still. It’s just the most obvious example of the issue that plagues Doomsday Dawn throughout. I don’t expect custom angles and hooks, mind you – but knowing for what you’re fighting, feeling like you’re PART of the order of guardians against the things from beyond? That’d have been a powerful motivator for PCs and players alike. Think about it: It’d have provided this conviction that, even though you may suffer and die, you’re doing the right thing – you’re saving, literally, the world.

But I’m getting ahead of myself.

“The Lost Star” had me flash back to the days when Episode 1 hit the silver screens, in particular, ill-omened George Lucas’ statement that “everything rhymes.” In a way, much like the final dungeon of Rise of the Runelords #1: Burnt Offerings, we have a pretty vanilla fantasy dungeon-crawl, with a few tidbits thrown in: There would be a few hazards/traps that are a bit beyond what you’d expect, and here, PF Playtest highlights how its engine makes traps and hazards less of a “cross and invisible line for damage” thing, and more like something that can be meaningfully interacted with. This is a HUGE plus for PF Playtest, and an aspect of the system that I genuinely love. Drakus the Taker feels akin to Nualia, in that he’s a random boss that hints at the larger story awaiting. Drakus is interesting in that he highlights what the system can do with bosses. This adventure, as a whole, is decent, but suffers from the fact that a) it had less room to develop its dungeon and antagonist than RotRL #1, and b) is also a somewhat less interesting dungeon. In the original RotRL #1, at this point players were already invested in Sandpoint, had finished some smaller dungeons and encounters, etc. – here, it’s just a goblin-dungeon, like we’ve cleared about a bazillion times in various systems so far. The failure of this module, why it fails to garner the same impact, is one of scale and context – and that, alas, is a leitmotif for Doomsday Dawn.

“In Pale Mountain’s Shadow” introductory prose makes the Esoteric Order look like bumbling buffoons, which doesn’t really help the narrative. The trek through the foothills suffers from a lack of player choice and agenda, but the main failure of the module, to me, lies in the “Chamber of Planar Alignment”, which presents a puzzle that may as well not be there. Instead of presenting a gorgeous handout, a beautiful artwork, instead of having the players figure out the puzzle, it’s a series of checks. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t object to that per se, but here, this looks very much like a puzzle that should have been solvable by the players, with the OPTION to brute-force it with checks (or by waiting for the antagonists). This is not a puzzle, it’s an exercise in rolling the dice. It is abstract in the most unrewarding way possible. Considering how games have moved towards ROLEplaying, towards blending the rolling of the dice with actual roleplaying, this is, to me, a pretty big downer, and something that could have really highlighted a difference in design paradigm for PF Playtest. It’s also one of the aspects that made me rather apprehensive and something I genuinely hope Paizo will move away from.

Indeed, this ties in with another aspect of Doomsday Dawn: VTTs/player-friendly maps. They are pretty much a staple for the vast majority of 3pps out there, and from handouts to such maps, I really think that Paizo should step up their game in that regard. There is no reason the PCs shouldn’t have a keyless version of e.g. Sombrefell Hall. Don’t get me wrong: The module is a step in the right direction, with the neat keyless maps that ARE provided. I just don’t think it’s enough when compared to the handouts that modules by Goodman Games, for example, provide constantly.

Speaking of which. “Affair at Sombrefell Hall” could have EASILY been a truly remarkable adventure, but once more, is held in check by the scope it has to develop its ideas. The same meaningful playtest data could have been collected with a few tweaks: 1) make the situation more complex/include more NPC interaction. This is one of two modules herein that feature a bit of investigation, and it’s as basic, obvious and unrewarding as it gets. It feels a bit like a less nuanced version of Evil Dead. Similarly, the module could have used the valuable asset of the system regarding the streamlined interaction with the environment in combat to lighten up combat and highlight what the system offers regarding sensible interaction. The front-loaded roleplaying could have been injected in-between waves of undead for a more rounded and less redundant experience. Once more, the scale, the wordcount available, really hampers what this module could have easily been.

“The Mirrored Moon” is the adventure herein that perhaps best encompasses the issues regarding scale that plague Doomsday Dawn. This module could best be called “needless and nonsensical implementation of subsystems, the module” – treasure points, ally points, research points – I like all of these in theory. The issue of this chapter is, however, that none of these systems contribute anything meaningful to the adventure. When do you use points as an abstraction in adventure-design? When too many factors accrue to make the listing of individual consequences of actions feasible, when the if-then-diagrams would become too sprawling. I *LIKE* resource-gathering like this; I don’t object to using abstract means to determine the like. But here? There are a grand total of 3 (!!) entries for the consequence of research points, and a similar amount for ally points. Not every point ever matters, which ultimately DETRACTS from the feeling that the actions of PCs have consequences – because that third ally or research point?

It.Does.Not.Matter.

If not every point counts, why bother with the point systems anyway? Why not state: 2 allies = x; 4 equals =y – this just creates a false illusion of a degree of differentiation that is just not here. In fact, most GMs would probably improvise a more nuanced action-consequence ratio here. Why bother at all with the point systems? Oh yeah, to showcase them. Thing is, while I LIKE them as concepts, their implementation here is so clumsy, it’d be funny, were it not so sad. I am almost 100% certain that this part of Doomsday Dawn was cut down from something that could have been so much better, that, you know, actually had a reason to use points?

“The Heroes of Undarin” could have been an amazing offering; in a way, daring to include it, is great. Players should be aware that there’s danger, that they may well be wiped out. Problems here range from the lack of environmental interaction points to the very unfortunate narrative issues bred from the introductory/denouement flavor texts and lack of information about the cause of the order. With a different framing, I am pretty sure that this wouldn’t have received the same level of disappointment, and instead elicited cheers for heroic blazes of glory. Another issue from a psychological perspective would be that the B-team, ultimately, doesn’t matter to the PLAYERS. While their A-team is attaining the White Axiom, a series of combats happen. Why not let the players play the process of attaining it, succumbing to the trauma, barely keeping it together as the B-team tries to keep them as safe as possible against the approaching onslaught? Switching characters would have added A LOT to this one. Again, scale. And what about making the performance of the doomed B-team actually have, you know, consequences regarding the whole plot??

“Red Flags” is easily the best stand-alone module herein: The characters are quirky, the metaplot components matter; we get actual roleplaying, the system showcases how it can blend interaction/exploration/roleplaying, etc. – This is a genuinely well-made and fun ADVENTURE I enjoyed. It showcases the strengths of the system, is fun to play, and it’s a tragedy that it shows up so late in the book. If this one had been included earlier, I bet more groups would have stuck with the playtest to the end. While it could have used more key-NPCs to interact with, it’s also the only adventure herein that doesn’t suffer from the scale-issue: It presents a comparably humble premise and delivers on it. It doesn’t feel like it needed a couple of pages to work as well as it should. (Though, handouts/artworks depicting the heist-relevant rooms would have been AWESOME…just sayin’…)

And then, there’d be “When the Stars Go Dark.” This is, in a way, the chapter of this module that highlights best a crucial component of what PF Playtest does infinitely better than the 1st edition. The finale, the rules presented for the White Axiom? They are AMAZING. I love the final encounter to bits. That being said, this chapter does have issues that look like compromises on…bingo…scale. Where is the read-aloud text, or better, artwork showing the revelations the PCs have?

This brings me to my main gripe with the finale, which has less to do with content, and more with art. That artwork of the star-spawn at the start of the module elicited a groan from me. It’s not creepy, it’s goofy. Also: Cthulhu et al are SO played out anno 2018/19, and the module frankly doesn’t need them, when it has malignant theorems and Ramlock himself, as great examples how you can provide fresh creatures that are lovecraftian, and not a rehash of the done-to-death mythos critters.

Ramlock gets an amazing artwork. The issue is, that the artwork fails to hit home regarding its impact, as we don’t have a scale reference. Reading the text, seeing his ginormous face approach, realizing how grossly mutated he is, how vastly swollen, is an AWESOME image that begs to have a visual representation. The artwork of Ramlock, sans scale, makes him, courtesy of the lack of…scale…look like a humanoid-sized monster and makes him miss the mark regarding his grotesque and epic proportions. He loses much of the impact.

Similarly, the veinstone pendulum, the whole set-up of the final battle – if anything ever warranted the talent of Paizo’s amazing artists, it’d be that final scene. While I would have loved to see a bit more exploration of Ramlock’s Hollow prior to the finale, this is, alongside “Red Flags”, by far the most structurally-sound adventure herein, and it really made me excited for the future. The “Ashen Man”-encounter is also nice, has a glorious artwork and is really cool – easily one of my favorite roleplaying interactions in the whole module. We need more of that type of Lovecraftian horror, and less simple quoting of mythos monsters to be hacked apart. The only failure in scale of this last module, would thus pertain the choice made in art-direction.

The conclusion of my dissection can be read here!

Great Art, Poor Adventures

2/5 —

NO SPOILERS

Doomsday Dawn is a 96-page softcover book designed to play-test the rules for the upcoming second edition of Pathfinder. The adventure is divided into seven chapters, each of which is designed to take a couple of sessions to get through. Although the chapters link to tell one overall story, each jumps forward a couple of years in Golarion-time and many require the creation of new PCs.

I was very excited by the idea of Doomsday Dawn when it was first announced, as it promised to involve a cool (and long-dangling) plot thread that has been part of Golarion lore for several years. I'm one of those people who are more into story than mechanics, and I couldn't wait to see what kind of awesome adventure Paizo had in store as it transitioned Pathfinder from its first to its second edition.

Unfortunately, I was very disappointed by the experience. I played through the first four chapters before dropping out (along with the rest of the group). Although the product itself is high-quality, with some great artwork and layout, the storytelling is poor and the encounters forgettable. There are few NPCs to interact with, few opportunities for good role-playing, few interesting choices to make, and very little player-facing information on what the heck is going on (behind the scenes) until very late in the book. I think I was expecting a package of well-written Pathfinder Society scenarios that tied together into one awesome story, and instead I got a collection of encounters, poorly tied-together, that I would rather have just played in isolation as exercises in tactical combat without the expectation of role-playing and plot development. To be fair, a really good GM could probably smooth over some of the rough patches and add some extra material to tie things together better, but that's a lot to ask someone who is trying to figure out a whole new rules-set alongside the players.

Now that the playtest is over and a lot of people have grumbled about the experience, there's been a counter-argument in the forums that "playtesting is work, and isn't supposed to be fun." I can accept that, but that's not the view that was circulated and led to such excitement among the community. I think, unfortunately, my participation in the playtest has led me further away from embracing second edition than I would have been if I just went in with my eyes closed and hoped for the best. As for Doomsday Dawn, my recommendation would be for hardcore Golarion-lore fans to download the free PDF (something we have to give Paizo credit for) to see how it resolves that big story-thread, but for other Pathfinder fans to leave it alone.

SPOILERS!:
I'll start with the book's strength: it's really pretty. The cover artwork (featuring Harsk and Seoni assaulted by mummies) is beautiful, and most of the interior artwork is of similarly-excellent quality (look at the Hidimbi on page 57 or the Ashen Man on page 90). The art that starts each chapter is weaker, but still, on the whole, Paizo has a great thing going with its selection of artists. The book itself is laid out well, with a sidebar on each right-side page indicating which chapter is being looked at, notes from the designers interspersed throughout to help the GM know what the goals of each chapter are, well-designed maps (even those not part of the printed flip-mats are good), and more. The inside front cover is a map of Golarion indicating where each chapter takes place, while the inside back cover is a hex map (suitable for photocopying if the encounter locations are removed) that ties into the fourth chapter. All in all, it's a high-quality production, especially when you realise this is just a playtest document and will be obsolete in a few months--it's of better physical and artistic quality that most publishers' premiere output!

The adventure itself concerns a set of mysterious artifacts (recovered from ancient pyramids in Osirion) known as the "countdown clocks." The countdown clocks herald some sort of world-wide cataclysm, and first appear in a module from 2008 (!) called The Pact Stone Pyramid. Doomsday Dawn reveals that the countdown clocks are ticking down to when the planet Aucturn will be in the right celestial conjunction with Golarion to allow for an invasion by the Dominion of the Black and the release of a Great Old One that will destroy the entire planet! Even adventure paths only deal with the fate of a city or a country, and this is the first Paizo story I know about where the entire planet is at stake--it's pretty exciting stuff. The backstory, explained in a two-page section, is pretty complicated stuff, involving a "mind-quaked" priest named Ramlock, his development of the Last Theorem (and the missing White Axiom), portals to Aucturn, the Dominion of the Black, the pharaohs of the Pact Stone Pyramid, cultists called the Night Heralds, and more. I was fairly lost reading through it for the purposes of this review, but had far less of an idea of what was going on as a player. Anyway, I'll go through each of the seven chapters in a separate paragraph below.

Chapter 1, "The Lost Star", starts things off poorly. It's set in Magnimar just before the events of Rise of the Runelords, but doesn't really have a link apart from the fact that the giver of the adventure hook, Keleri Deverin, is cousin to Sandpoint's mayor and plans to travel there for the Swallowtail Festival. The chapter dumps the PCs into Keleri's house as friends/allies summoned to help retrieve a family heirloom stolen by a bunch of goblins from her basement vault. The goblins belong to the Mudchewer tribe and can be tracked through the vault to a sewer complex called the Ashen Ossuary, where their "hobgoblin" leader, Drakus, is revealed as a faceless stalker. It's essentially a very, very basic dungeon crawl, with goblins, skeletons, a giant caterpillar, and some traps. Really, it's about as generic as a D&D-style adventure can get, at least until the very end where (potentially) Keleri reveals that she is a member of an organisation called the Esoteric Order of the Palantine Eye which looks after mystical secrets and tries to stop dangerous cults like the Night Heralds from using them to cause harm. There's some backstory here, but the PCs can't engage with it even if they find out about it.

Chapter 2, "In Pale Mountain's Shadow", has players create a new set of fourth level PCs for an adventure set in Katapesh. There's a race between the Esoteric Order of the Palantine Eye and the Night Heralds to penetrate the Tomb of Sular Seft and get a countdown clock so they know when the apocalypse is coming (as Buffy says, "If the apocalypse comes, beep me."). One of the criticisms I have of the entire adventure is that there's very little background provided on the Esoteric Order of the Palantine Eye, which results in the PCs being members of the group just because they're supposed to be. Anyway, this chapter tests out the wilderness travel rules and some wilderness-themed hazards and monsters (such as a manticore and gnolls) before the PCs reach the tomb. Inside, there are elementals, a poorly-described puzzle, and a dude who has been trapped for millennia named Mabar who is the key to the PCs getting any background information about what's been going on so far. Reading the chapter after having played through it, I can recognise that there are some good story elements that just didn't come up during the actual session--I'm not sure if that was the GM's or the adventure's fault.

Chapter 3, "Affair at Sombrefell Hall," is set in Ustalav and has PCs creating a new set of 7th level characters. One of the reasons I found the playtest such a chore was that it was a real pain to create or level up increasingly high-level characters in a new rules system while still sticking to the "one chapter every two weeks" schedule that was necessary in order to keep up with the surveys. Some pre-gens for those of us with limited time would have made a big difference. Anyway, the PCs are asked to travel to a manor on the shores of Lantern Lake to ask a scholar, Verid Oscilar, to return with them and share his knowledge about the Dominion of the Black. (I really wish that the chapter had tied in Dr. Quolorum, a fellow academic at the Sincomakti School of Sciences from The Phantom Phenomena into this adventure, as his travels are centered in the same area!). What actually happens is that the PCs arrive at the manor, Oscilar refuses to leave until he finishes a project, and the manor is assaulted by wave after wave of undead in a test to see how long the PCs can hold out. The adventure has some flaws in it, particularly with failing to address what happens if the PCs try to intimidate or charm Oscilar into leaving right away (as my group did), expecting the PCs to spend a game-day or more poking around the manor before anything interesting happens (a lot of PCs aren't going to be the type to rummage around someone else's house), and having a location site that's pretty big and complicated to draw and not either using an existing flip-mat (Haunted House or Pathfinder Lodge, for example) or having it be one of the ones specifically released for the playtest. All in all, there's a lot of combat in a very lethal adventure with very little story development from the players' perspective.

Chapter 4, "The Mirrored Moon," has the problem that, no matter what happens in previous chapters (whether the PCs succeeded or failed), events play out exactly the same. The premise is that the Eye have learned about the Night Heralds' attempts to contact the slumbering wizard Ramlock, and that both the Eye and the Night Heralds are racing to find Ramlock's lost tower in the River Kingdoms. This chapter uses a wilderness hex grid and tests overland movement and a "one encounter per day" paradigm (a.k.a., "hexploration"). Our GM gave us (presumably by mistake) a photocopy of the marked hex map in the back of the book, so we knew exactly where encounters would be, even if we didn't know what type they would be. The premise of the adventure is very different than the others, as it uses "ally points," "treasure points," and "research points" to track how well the PCs are doing in gathering resources to help with what I guess is presumed to be a big battle with the Night Heralds at Ramlock's tower. Most of this is explained pretty poorly, as abstract trackers and mechanics need to be carefully integrated into an adventure to seem justified to players. What basically happens is the PCs wander around, meet creatures (a dragon, some cyclops, a lake monster, etc.), do some simple fetch/messenger quests to gain allies, and then have a big battle at the tower. It all seemed very simplistic and cheesy when I played it (like a bad board game with a little role-playing tacked on and every single skill check DC seemingly pegged at the magical number of "26"). This is where I dropped out, so the rest of the review is based purely on reading the subsequent chapters.

Chapter 5, “The Heroes of Undarin,” is designed to result in a TPK, though the players won’t be told this! The premise is that the PCs are grizzled crusaders from the Worldwound (new 12th level characters), and they’re tasked with escorting the (off-screen) PCs from the previous chapters as they undertake an important mission in the demon-haunted wastelands. In order to decipher the true meaning of Ramlock’s text, The Last Theorem, the Esoteric Order of the Palantine Eye needs to recover the fabled White Axiom—which exists scrawled on a cave underneath the ruins of the city of Undarin. (I’m not exactly sure why the Eye needs this info, and suspect it might be better left there, but that’s neither here nor there.) The plot stuff is only in the background, because how this chapter plays out from beginning to end is 100% pure combat: the PCs have to defend a ruined temple for as long as they can, against wave after wave after wave of demons and undead. These are some amazing, earth-shaking battles, and the temple flip-mat is given some cool terrain and features to spice things up. There’s no role-playing and little story, but I have to admit it sounds like a blast to play (as long as you weren’t expecting anything with more depth).

Chapter 6, “Red Flags”, looks to be the best adventure of the bunch. The PCs are sent to infiltrate a gala in the Shackles at a mansion where the last known copy of The Last Theorem is kept securely in the vault. The way the PCs proceed in the gala is handled in a free-form manner, with lots of opportunity for role-playing, information gathering, deception, stealth, and more. There’s a really interesting story here, and the chapter reads like a good PFS scenario as the PCs realize they have to race to retrieve the book before a rival “party guest” from the Night Heralds gets into the vault first. I think if an adventure like this had occurred earlier in the book, it would have left a better taste in my mouth about the whole playtest.

Chapter 7, “When the Stars Go Dark”, is a suitably epic climax to the storyline. Using The Last Theorem and the White Axiom, the PCs can enter a demiplane called Ramlock’s Hollow and disrupt something that’s kind of like a giant countdown clock, the Veinstone Pyramid, to stop the conjunction of Golarion and Aucturn. But of course, they have all manner of cosmic-level threats to overcome, including Ramlock himself who attacks during the lengthy ritual needed to disrupt the Veinstone Pyramid. Earlier in the chapter, the PCs have the opportunity to undergo some visions to learn about the backstory to the entire adventure, but I think it’s probably too little, too late. Anyway, the chapter would be a great opportunity to test out the playtest rules in some high-CR confrontations.

I *almost* regret not sticking with the playtest longer in order to experience the last chapters of Doomsday Dawn, as they seem better written and more interesting than the earlier ones. Further, I think if I had gone in with lower expectations and if there had been more time allotted in the schedule so that creating new PCs and finishing chapters didn’t have to be done in such a hectic manner, I would have enjoyed the whole thing more. But all of that is in hindsight, and I suppose what matters now is the legacy of this book going forward now that the playtest is finished: it wraps up the “Aucturn Enigma” plot thread and offers some more insight (though not much) into the Esoteric Order of the Palantine Eye, the Night Heralds, the Dominion of the Black, and more. As I said in the introduction, however, there’s not enough of interest to make this anything more than a curiosity unless you really need to learn some additional lore on these topics.


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carborundum wrote:

Weird getting shipping notifications but no pdf :-(

Waiting til mine reach the Netherlands...

I had the same impulse but then realized that even though it is a preorder it never said anywhere that preorders would get their PDF with the shipping of the physical book as would be normal.

I guess everybody gets their PDF the same way, the same day. Let's just hope the server goblins can take the whipping on August 2...
Marco Massoudi wrote:


Ah, ein Landsmann. ;-)
I'm curious about when you will be getting your shipment, where do you live?
I'm from Köln & should receive this between 1st & 3rd of august from my local flagstore, depending on how long customs will take.
Ich drück dir die Daumen, dass du es schneller hast!

I live in Dresden and I get it delivered to my mailbox. Delivery time has swung wildly in the past anywhere from 1 week (I think) to 6 weeks.

But I can let you know when it gets here!

Do you save money on shipping for having it sent to your FLGS?
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Here, Vic said:

Vic Wertz wrote:

NO preorders have shipped. The confirmation email some of you have received says "A package... is about to ship from Amazon Main Warehouse via Amazon Standard Delivery."

We are still in the process of charging cards so that we can deliver Amazon the data on the orders that were successfully charged. Amazon will then be shipping them with the target of delivering to most customers near the August 2 release date (which is when the PDF will be available).

And if you haven't received such an email yet, don't worry; they'll be going out for a while yet; at least into tomorrow, I should think. You can check for updates on that here.

The playtest preorders don't work like regular subscription shipments. They're not leaving the Paizo warehouse, they will be shipped (like Amazon pre-orders) with the goal of arriving on release date, and they don't grant PDFs when your card is charged.

Huh, look at that, it really does say Amazon Warehouse. I didn't even notice that.

Thanks for the clarification, Joana!
Dark Archive
Nullpunkt wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:


Ah, ein Landsmann. ;-)
I'm curious about when you will be getting your shipment, where do you live?
I'm from Köln & should receive this between 1st & 3rd of august from my local flagstore, depending on how long customs will take.
Ich drück dir die Daumen, dass du es schneller hast!

I live in Dresden and I get it delivered to my mailbox. Delivery time has swung wildly in the past anywhere from 1 week (I think) to 6 weeks.

But I can let you know when it gets here!

Do you save money on shipping for having it sent to your FLGS?

I buy them directly from my flagstore and pay no shipping costs whatsoever.

I do pre-order a lot of stuff through them, but that is not required.
It is Germany's biggest role-play & board-game store and the employees and owner are all very nice.
If you have any questions pm me.
It would be interesting to know when your shipment arrives, i'll let you know when it arrives in my flagstore. :-)
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Nullpunkt wrote:
... Let's just hope the server goblins can take the whipping on August 2...

Not to worry! All the pugwampis on the boards intend to lend the goblin servers a hand! ;)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer
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NO preorders have shipped. The confirmation email some of you have received says "A package... is about to ship from Amazon Main Warehouse via Amazon Standard Delivery."
You received this email when we charged your card, which had to happen before we can deliver Amazon the data regarding orders that were successfully charged. Amazon will then be shipping them with the target of delivering to most customers near the August 2 release date (which is when the PDF will be available).
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Generic Villain wrote:

According to Occult Mysteries, the Countdown Clocks might reach a special conjunction on 4718 AR - which corresponds to 2018 in real life. The last time such a conjunction happened was 4606 AR, when Aroden died. I know the developers have said no massive cataclysm will usher in 2nd edition (as has been the case with every iteration of, say, Forgotten Realms), but I'm definitely hoping for something special.

Maybe kill off one of the less popular deities? I'm looking at you Alseta the Welcomer.

So no. 4718 comes out in 2018 but it doesnt correspond to it. 4718 =1923 in our world.

I say this because of PF's 4516= 1721 in our world.
Liberty's Edge
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Marco Massoudi wrote:

The adventures are taking place over the course of seven years will be interesting.

I hope they take place in different Inner Sea nations and are not 100% dungeon crawls, but offer 5% world story at least.
I'm also looking forward very much to an eventual "Inner Sea Guide 4719" with an advanced timeline from all 24 Adventure Paths (and Varisia maybe called New Thassilon?).

Ooh I like this idea. Having a new world order style Inner Sea World Guide would be awesome. Extra points if the APs are shown to be canonical to the world's progression.

BMO wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:

The adventures are taking place over the course of seven years will be interesting.

I hope they take place in different Inner Sea nations and are not 100% dungeon crawls, but offer 5% world story at least.
I'm also looking forward very much to an eventual "Inner Sea Guide 4719" with an advanced timeline from all 24 Adventure Paths (and Varisia maybe called New Thassilon?).
Ooh I like this idea. Having a new world order style Inner Sea World Guide would be awesome. Extra points if the APs are shown to be canonical to the world's progression.

The APs being cannon would be important.

Silver Crusade
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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Feylin wrote:
BMO wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:

The adventures are taking place over the course of seven years will be interesting.

I hope they take place in different Inner Sea nations and are not 100% dungeon crawls, but offer 5% world story at least.
I'm also looking forward very much to an eventual "Inner Sea Guide 4719" with an advanced timeline from all 24 Adventure Paths (and Varisia maybe called New Thassilon?).
Ooh I like this idea. Having a new world order style Inner Sea World Guide would be awesome. Extra points if the APs are shown to be canonical to the world's progression.
The APs being cannon would be important.

I beg to differ. It would be far more important if they could be gun-howitzer.

So, wait, will this end up being a six part adventure path?

No, it's one book with 7 "chapters". There's no time for this being a full fledged Adventure Path.

The book will tell you what level you should build a character for, and when to level up (Also probaly some instructions on what kind of character you should or shouldn't build).
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Franz Lunzer wrote:
No, it's one book with 7 "chapters". There's no time for this being a full fledged Adventure Path.

Nutbunnies.

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Berselius wrote:
Franz Lunzer wrote:
No, it's one book with 7 "chapters". There's no time for this being a full fledged Adventure Path.
Nutbunnies.

What were you expecting?!

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Zaister wrote:
Berselius wrote:
Franz Lunzer wrote:
No, it's one book with 7 "chapters". There's no time for this being a full fledged Adventure Path.
Nutbunnies.
What were you expecting?!

I was hoping Paizo was going to save the stopping of the countdown clocks of Osirion's (as well as the foretold invasion of the Dominion of the Black into Golarion's solar system) for a 6 part adventure path that would span at least six of the planets of Golarion's solar system (Castrovel, Akiton, Triaxus, etc etc) and culmulate on the planet Aucturn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to get whatever I can from Paizo, I was just hoping we'd get something bigger is all. Unless I'm wrong and this manual will be the size of the Rise of the Runelords/Curse of the Crimson Throne manuals (in which case I take back everything ^_~).
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There's no pagecount noted in the description, so it's hard to tell, but I think it's going to be less than the Emerald Spire Superdungeon in Volume.

[edit:] it's a 96 page softcover, according to the playtest-microsite

So not really anywhere near the AP-Hardcovers.
Scarab Sages
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

So, same size as Thornkeep...
Paizo Employee Creative Director
5 people marked this as a favorite.

This story line began in the modules line, so it seemed apt to have it culminate in a module, not an Adventure Path.

Plus the timing of the countdown was too perfect not to do something like this.
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Marco Massoudi wrote:


I buy them directly from my flagstore and pay no shipping costs whatsoever.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

We certainly have some flag stores in Cologne, but they sell flags, not Pathfinder. :)
1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think he meant FLG store (Friendly Local Gaming).
Or flagship-store.
Dark Archive

Thx Zaister & Franz, i really mean FLG store! :-)

It now looks like i will get my hands on the playtest stuff in just two days!
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Except for the Bestiary :)
James Jacobs wrote:

This story line began in the modules line, so it seemed apt to have it culminate in a module, not an Adventure Path.

Plus the timing of the countdown was too perfect not to do something like this.

(shrugs) While I'm still grateful for any released content James, I still think a great deal more could have been done with this. Too each their own I guess.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer
8 people marked this as a favorite.
Marco Massoudi wrote:

Thx Zaister & Franz, i really mean FLG store! :-)

It now looks like i will get my hands on the playtest stuff in just two days!

The street date is August 2. If your store is getting you product prior to August 2, they are breaking street date. If we find out that a retailer is breaking street date on the playtest products, we will do our best to ensure that next year, they don't receive their second edition products until *AFTER* the street date.

Silver Crusade
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:

Thx Zaister & Franz, i really mean FLG store! :-)

It now looks like i will get my hands on the playtest stuff in just two days!

The street date is August 2. If your store is getting you product prior to August 2, they are breaking street date. If we find out that a retailer is breaking street date on the playtest products, we will do our best to ensure that next year, they don't receive their second edition products until *AFTER* the street date.

Gee Marko, that was really nice of you to rat out your own favourite store, von Stauffenberg-style :)

Dark Archive
Vic Wertz wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:

Thx Zaister & Franz, i really mean FLG store! :-)

It now looks like i will get my hands on the playtest stuff in just two days!

The street date is August 2. If your store is getting you product prior to August 2, they are breaking street date. If we find out that a retailer is breaking street date on the playtest products, we will do our best to ensure that next year, they don't receive their second edition products until *AFTER* the street date.

I (or anyone else) won't be able to buy the playtest stuff and take it home with me (until august 2nd), but i am unpacking the books and have to lay them aside for the people who ordered them so they won't be sold (to anyone else) as there will be no reprints.

I will leaf through the books though, to make sure there are no misprints or other damages.
So, i will get my hands on them today, but that won't be a breach of street date, as they won't be sold and won't leave the store (until august 2nd). ;-)
Scarab Sages

So apparently Paizo will «focus» on one of the seven playtest scenarios every 3 weeks... are we supposed to play the scenario during that window, or is that only important for the feedback and discussion?

I'm having enough trouble drumming my players together over the summer months without an external schedule on top... :Þ

In particular, is it OK to play through the scenarios more quickly than that 3-week rhythm?

Should a scenario correspond more or less to a single session?
Dark Archive

It would certainly be nice to know for how long the feedback surveys will be open/possible. ;-)

We will probably start with pregenerated characters and the first PFS scenario to get a feel for the new rules and then make our own characters and i will gm Doomsday Dawn.

I'm very much looking forward to the "Playtest(Best)iary", as i am very interested to see what has changed with the creatures design.

Have gargantuan & colossal creatures been reduced in size to large or huge to better present them on the battlefield with pawns & minis for instance?
D&D did that with some creatures.
Paizo Employee Creative Director
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Catharsis wrote:

So apparently Paizo will «focus» on one of the seven playtest scenarios every 3 weeks... are we supposed to play the scenario during that window, or is that only important for the feedback and discussion?

I'm having enough trouble drumming my players together over the summer months without an external schedule on top... :Þ

In particular, is it OK to play through the scenarios more quickly than that 3-week rhythm?

Should a scenario correspond more or less to a single session?

We'll have a LOT of info about how to do this by this time next week. Just a few more days and all will be revealed!

The short preview version is: Playtest as much as you want/can. Even if you only play a few parts overall that's important info for us to know, not only in the category of what feedback you can give us but meta-feedback on how long it takes groups to play through various types of encounters.

Full details will be out in a week though, so stay tuned!
Scarab Sages
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
No pregens at all...

That sucks to hear. I have a 5e D&D group I was hoping to run the playtest with and it would have been nice to be able to just hand characters to them to play so they can get a feel of the rules as we learn.

Since I'm the only one buying the books, having them create characters themselves is not an option.

Any chance paizo will post pregnerated characters for each of the levels required to play Doomsday Dawn?
Dark Archive
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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Play test documents will be free to download so they don't need to buy a physical book I think?
CorvusMask wrote:
Play test documents will be free to download so they don't need to buy a physical book I think?

Yep, everything will be available as a free PDF on August 2nd

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer
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Reebo Kesh wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
No pregens at all...

That sucks to hear. I have a 5e D&D group I was hoping to run the playtest with and it would have been nice to be able to just hand characters to them to play so they can get a feel of the rules as we learn.

Since I'm the only one buying the books, having them create characters themselves is not an option.

Any chance paizo will post pregnerated characters for each of the levels required to play Doomsday Dawn?

One of the main things we're testing is character building, so making it easy to avoid that isn't really on plan for us. (We will have Pathfinder Society pregens, but they're not built the same way.) But I'm sure other people will be happy to share characters they've built...

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:

Has this been changed to three PFS scenarios on august 7th (which would be generous enough imo) or will there be more in september?

Thank you for your time and dedication! :-)
We'll have three adventures premiering at Gen Con and releasing to the public just after the convention, with one more coming out on September 26th. As it happens, we just released a Pathfinder Society blog that has a lot more to say on what Organized Play has to offer for the playtest at Gen Con and beyond, including titles and levels for each of the scenarios, rewards you can earn for playtesting, how to give feedback, and tips for running playtest events.

I don't think it's entirely right that those who went to GENcon or some other -con have had access to the material and freedom to post it on the internet while those of us who paid for it in April have to wait until whenever 11-20 business days from July 13 will be. Guess I just have to wait until the PDF is available. Although the pregen characters are already available for download on some sites. Just seems a little off balanced.

Silver Crusade
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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Quickshadow94 wrote:
Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:

Has this been changed to three PFS scenarios on august 7th (which would be generous enough imo) or will there be more in september?

Thank you for your time and dedication! :-)
We'll have three adventures premiering at Gen Con and releasing to the public just after the convention, with one more coming out on September 26th. As it happens, we just released a Pathfinder Society blog that has a lot more to say on what Organized Play has to offer for the playtest at Gen Con and beyond, including titles and levels for each of the scenarios, rewards you can earn for playtesting, how to give feedback, and tips for running playtest events.
I don't think it's entirely right that those who went to GENcon or some other -con have had access to the material and freedom to post it on the internet while those of us who paid for it in April have to wait until whenever 11-20 business days from July 13 will be. Guess I just have to wait until the PDF is available. Although the pregen characters are already available for download on some sites. Just seems a little off balanced.

The PDF is going to be available on August 2nd. The only people who are ahead are those whose shops broke the street date.

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Not to mention that while it may have been pre-ordered in April, it wasn't paid for in April.

I just noticed that Quickshadow94 is specifically referring to PFS Scenarios. While off-topic for this thread about Doomsday Dawn, I believe that Society GMs running the playtest scenarios at GenCon do get access to the scenarios early so they can prep them for the convention. The scenarios won't be available to the general public until August 7th.
Vic Wertz wrote:
One of the main things we're testing is character building, so making it easy to avoid that isn't really on plan for us. (We will have Pathfinder Society pregens, but they're not built the same way.)

What do you mean that PFS pregens are not built the same way?

One last question. Since this is a Doomsday module, this is obviously the cataclysm event that kicks off PF2, where things will be shifted around, maybe even things in Golarion itself.

At level 17, are we meant to win or lose (basically a very high EL final encounter) or will the success/failure during these scenarios have any impact on the overall Golarion story going forward? Hmmm...
Paizo Employee Creative Director
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Jason S wrote:

One last question. Since this is a Doomsday module, this is obviously the cataclysm event that kicks off PF2, where things will be shifted around, maybe even things in Golarion itself.

At level 17, are we meant to win or lose (basically a very high EL final encounter) or will the success/failure during these scenarios have any impact on the overall Golarion story going forward? Hmmm...

The "shifting around" of the setting isn't this module's result, but the result of ALL the adventures and Adventure Paths and products we've published over the past decade or so.

That said, you could look at Doomsday Dawn as a "If your players don't play this game, Golarion as you know it is doomed."

In other words, the kinda-jokey idea there is that by playing this adventure, players PREVENT Golarion from having any drastic, realms-shaking events.

There will be some changes to the setting going forward, but they will be organic changes informed by 24 Adventure Paths and other products we've published, not just this one adventure.

The adventure itself is a playtest, so whether or not folks win or lose (aka: Is the game too hard or too easy?) is part of the playtest process. The aggregate results of that won't influence the setting's evolving storyline though. In fact, my hope is that in-world, NPCs won't notice the change of editions; that's how we handled things 10 years ago when we shifted from 3.5 to Pathfinder.
Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer
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Jason S wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
One of the main things we're testing is character building, so making it easy to avoid that isn't really on plan for us. (We will have Pathfinder Society pregens, but they're not built the same way.)
What do you mean that PFS pregens are not built the same way?

Each section of the playtest adventure has specific instructions for character creation and/or party makeup. (Some sections are very specific; others, much less so.) Those requirements may or may not be satisfied by the PFS pregens. Also, we'll be providing PFS pregens for 1st and 5th level only, and the playtest has you creating characters at other levels.

Bottom line: nobody has attempted to match up the pregens to the adventure—remember, pregens are contrary to some of our goals—but from what I've heard, I suspect that you might be able to use the 1st-level pregens for the 1st-level section, and you can level them up yourself for a couple of the later sections, but there will be several sections for which PFS pregens won't be workable.
Grand Lodge
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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Quickshadow94 wrote:
I don't think it's entirely right that those who went to GENcon or some other -con have had access to the material and freedom to post it on the internet while those of us who paid for it in April have to wait until whenever 11-20 business days from July 13 will be. Guess I just have to wait until the PDF is available. Although the pregen characters are already available for download on some sites. Just seems a little off balanced.

Everyone with access to the documentation from GenCon and others are under NDA to not release any of it. The pregens were allowed to be previewed officially, anything else is posted against the direction of Paizo.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Quickshadow94 wrote:
I don't think it's entirely right that those who went to GENcon or some other -con have had access to the material and freedom to post it on the internet while those of us who paid for it in April have to wait until whenever 11-20 business days from July 13 will be. Guess I just have to wait until the PDF is available. Although the pregen characters are already available for download on some sites. Just seems a little off balanced.
Everyone with access to the documentation from GenCon and others are under NDA to not release any of it. The pregens were allowed to be previewed officially, anything else is posted against the direction of Paizo.

So this:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5440-6-Pathinder-2E-Iconic-Pregen- Characters-In-PDF-Format

Is against the rules? We all know that everyone follow the rules, I mean, that's why we have jails and such right?
Nullpunkt wrote:

Huh, look at that, it really does say Amazon Warehouse. I didn't even notice that.

Thanks for the clarification, Joana!

It doesn't specify which one though. There's one in Dallas which takes less than three days to ship from to where I am.

Grand Lodge
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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Quickshadow94 wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Quickshadow94 wrote:
I don't think it's entirely right that those who went to GENcon or some other -con have had access to the material and freedom to post it on the internet while those of us who paid for it in April have to wait until whenever 11-20 business days from July 13 will be. Guess I just have to wait until the PDF is available. Although the pregen characters are already available for download on some sites. Just seems a little off balanced.
Everyone with access to the documentation from GenCon and others are under NDA to not release any of it. The pregens were allowed to be previewed officially, anything else is posted against the direction of Paizo.

So this:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5440-6-Pathinder-2E-Iconic-Pregen- Characters-In-PDF-Format

Is against the rules? We all know that everyone follow the rules, I mean, that's why we have jails and such right?

See bolded text.

I don't know how you expect volunteers to assist Paizo in special preview events at PaizoCon and GenCon without being given the materials to run it. I also do not understand why you find fault with Paizo for people breaking the promise they made to keep the information confidential outside of those events. I would think you would hold those people accountable for their own actions.

They'll ship from the closest warehouse, but they'll ship it on a timetable to get it to you on release day, not before. Just like Harry Potter books or new release video games you order before release date. They'll stagger shipping for near-uniform delivery, rather than shipping everything at the same time and have them arrive at different times.

As for the pregens on ENWorld, TOZ noted that they were a Paizo-approved preview, just like the stuff released in the blog.
Dark Archive

You can play Doomsday Dawn part 1 with the Iconic Alchemist "Fumbus" with no problem at all.

You only need to replace the "Pathfinder Hopeful" background with the "Goblin Renegate" one (both on page 3 of DD).

Does the Doomsday Dawn document say anywhere who wrote which of its parts? All I found was the list of authors in the backmatter credits, but they're listed alphabetically, not in order of the book's chapters.

At least I've found out who wrote the first three from watching them GM on the Twitch stream.
President, SmiteWorks

This is now available for Fantasy Grounds as part of our support for the Pathfinder 2.0 PlayTest.

This product is marked as Early Access, so it features parts 1 through 3 only. Parts 4 - 7 will be added with subsequent updates.

Pathfinder Playtest Adventure: Doomsday Dawn
Publisher: Paizo Inc.
System: Pathfinder 2.0
Type: Adventure
Get it on Steam
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