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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Wilderness

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Wilderness

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Wild, untamed lands hold a wealth of mystery and danger, providing the perfect backdrop for heroic adventure. Whether adventurers are climbing mountains in search of a dragon's lair, carving their way through the jungle, or seeking a long-lost holy city covered by desert sands, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness gives them the tools to survive the wilds. A new 20-level base class, the shifter, puts animalistic powers into the hands—or claws—of player characters and villains alike, with new class features derived from animalistic attributes. Overviews of druidic sects and rituals, as well as new archetypes, character options, spells, and more, round out the latest contribution to the Pathfinder RPG rules!

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness is an invaluable hardcover companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Wilderness includes:

  • The shifter, a new character class that harnesses untamed forces to change shape and bring a heightened level of savagery to the battlefield!
  • Archetypes for alchemists, barbarians, bards, druids, hunters, investigators, kineticists, paladins, rangers, rogues, slayers, witches, and more!
  • Feats and magic items for characters of all sorts granting mastery over the perils of nature and enabling them to harvest natural power by cultivating magical plants.
  • Dozens of spells to channel, protect, or thwart the powers of natural environs.
  • New and expanded rules to push your animal companions, familiars, and mounts to wild new heights.
  • A section on the First World with advice, spells, and other features to integrate the fey realm into your campaign.
  • Systems for exploring new lands and challenging characters with natural hazards and strange terrain both mundane and feytouched.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-986-8

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription.

Product Availability

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Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

PZO1140


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Product Discussion (2,956)
2,501 to 2,550 of 2,956 << first < prev | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | next > last >>
Shadow Lodge

Shifter builds and math fights here


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Knight,

The fact my 2003 Ford Focus died a week ago doesn't sit well with me when you make car comparisons...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
David knott 242 wrote:

Has anyone compared the Shifter to the Unchained Monk? That would probably be the most comparable previously existing class.

Significantly less damage than a Umonk 2 hand power attacking with a sansetsukon for those first few levels. Though your defences should be slightly higher. There is a bit more parity between fists vs claws with the shifter doing well if they could snag a race with a primary natural bite or gore attack.

At 4 Shifters get a nice boost with the size and stat bonuses from wildshape. Things like grab, trip, rage and super early access to pounce are all very nice toys. (actually Umonks with flying kick are the only full BAB class that get access to a pounce like ability anywhere near as soon, though they have wait several levels before its quite as strong)

Later on the UMonk tends to make more full bab attacks and has a stronger nova options and shenanigans like medusa's wrath. Shifters get options to hit harder and look to have ways of boosting their HP, defences and survivability more easily.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I still want to know how much of the reprints have been changed from old versions

Also, yay, finally a review that give info about other stuff than shifter. Or that isn't just a counter review. Either way though, I still don't have good idea what wilderness rules are about, like is it just discovery and foraging rules?


Inkfist wrote:
Yeah ignoring feats, and abilities like rage sure make things look like trap classes. By that standard barbarians and Fighters are utterly useless too...

He did give them feats, actually. And, which ability(or, abilities) on Shifter did he ignore? It'd probably be easier to respond to if you clarified that a bit better.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Inkfist wrote:
Yeah ignoring feats, and abilities like rage sure make things look like trap classes.

I haven't ignored them, Dire Wolverine form is the only one with rage abilities and even with Rage and rage powers you're still pretty limited. At most you get is two rage powers and sure that can get you pounce and another ability but only with the dire wolverine form, and only after something hits you. The druid and feral hunter are STILL doing more damage.

Bat form gives you great sensory abilities, hover, and flyby attack. But you only do at most a bite attack +1.5 your str modifier and the sensory abilities from BSIII are more then serviceable (and better at 8th level.)

Bear gives you improved natural attack (claw), hope you didn't take it already for tiger form already. Critical multiplier and awesome blow is cool but it's still not gonna be lots of damage compared to other classes unless you crit.

Bull form gives powerful charge, nothing else gives powerful charge. Good to see some scaling damage that's comparable to other classes. Honestly though a wooly rhino accomplishes much of what this form does already.

Deinonychus, spring attack is neat but you get it way too late to matter or build off it. Plus the druid and feral hunter can use all the natural attacks this form grants you already at 6th level. And why can't you use shifter claw damage on the foreclaws?

Falcon, neat scouting form but alas basic wildshape beats it out.

Frog, really gimicky. A druid could just wildshape into a crocodiles or shark or something else to accomplish her goals better then frog form.

Lizard, I don't know why anyone would take this.

Monkey, use it to wield large weapons I guess. Just get giant hide armor for a druid if you want to do that.

Mouse, you get evasion and improved evasion for a number of minutes per day and only if you activated it ahead of time. If you're not prepared for the time when you need the evasion then tough luck buddy. Not provoking attacks of opportunity is cool I guess but I doubt anyone is going to build around it.

Owl, nice stealth abilities but you only get two claw attacks and by the time you get Snatch you'll be fighting things too large for you to grab them or too powerful to be held by you.

Snake, the bonuses regarding attacks of opportunity are cool but you only get a single bite and poison is not guaranteed. A bonus to the poison save would have been neat. Once again wildshape outclasses it.

Stag, same problems the bull and bear had. I guess you can move faster, a certain number of minutes a day...

Tiger, already covered, Druid and Feral Hunter just plain do it better and 7 levels earlier.

Wolf, there are better ways to become a tripper without limiting yourself.

There we go, how about that. Did I leave anything out?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Painful Bugger wrote:
Inkfist wrote:
Yeah ignoring feats, and abilities like rage sure make things look like trap classes.

I haven't ignored them, Dire Wolverine form is the only one with rage abilities and even with Rage and rage powers you're still pretty limited. At most you get is two rage powers and sure that can get you pounce and another ability but only with the dire wolverine form, and only after something hits you. The druid and feral hunter are STILL doing more damage.

Bat form gives you great sensory abilities, hover, and flyby attack. But you only do at most a bite attack +1.5 your str modifier and the sensory abilities from BSIII are more then serviceable (and better at 8th level.)

Bear gives you improved natural attack (claw), hope you didn't take it already for tiger form already. Critical multiplier and awesome blow is clue but it's still not gonna be lots of damage compared to other classes unless you crit.

Bull form gives powerful charge, nothing else gives powerful charge. Good to see some scaling damage that's comparable to other classes. Honestly though a wooly rhino accomplishes much of what this form does already.

Deinonychus, spring attack is neat but you get it way too late to matter or build off it. Plus the druid and feral hunter can use all the natural attacks this form grants you already at 6th level. And why can't you use shifter claw damage on the foreclaws?

Falcon, neat scouting form but alas basic wildshape beats it out.

Frog, really gimicky. A druid could just wildshape into a crocodiles or shark or something else to accomplish her goals better then frog form.

Lizard, I don't know why anyone would take this.

Monkey, use it to wield large weapons I guess. Just get giant hide armor for a druid if you want to do that.

Mouse, you get evasion and improved evasion for a number of minutes per day and only if you activated it ahead of time. If you're not prepared for the time when you need the evasion then tough luck buddy. Not provoking attacks of opportunity is...

And, completely left out of this comparison is some of the crazy spells Druid (and Hunter) gain access to. Putting those in'd probably imbalance things even further.

I'm no number god when it comes to Pathfinder, but I imagine taking Natural Spell, and then casting spells like Strong Jaw or Magic Fang/G. Magic Fang could widen that gap even further.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alchemaic wrote:
Inkfist wrote:
Yeah ignoring feats, and abilities like rage sure make things look like trap classes. By that standard barbarians and Fighters are utterly useless too...
What's currently being left off of the list for the Shifter in that comparison then? Bearing in mind it should probably be posted in the math thread.

Wolverine aspect notably gives rage and rage powers. He's also missing the feat for the extra scaling attack.

Due to items like Bestial rags, a level 8 shifter should have three aspects to chose from and can pick the most beneficial minor aspect bonus.

If we are comparing DPR shouldn't we be comparing the higher damage options? Tiger is a combat form yes, but it exchanges the damage and survivability of the wolverine for pounce, grab and an extra 10 feet of movement.

Seeing as the "Kineticist does less DPR than a commoner with a bow" did the rounds for a solid six months after release, shouldn't we be more honest in our comparisons and builds?


Inkfist wrote:
Alchemaic wrote:
Inkfist wrote:
Yeah ignoring feats, and abilities like rage sure make things look like trap classes. By that standard barbarians and Fighters are utterly useless too...
What's currently being left off of the list for the Shifter in that comparison then? Bearing in mind it should probably be posted in the math thread.

Wolverine aspect notably gives rage and rage powers. He's also missing the feat for the extra scaling attack.

Due to items like Bestial rags, a level 8 shifter should have three aspects to chose from and can pick the most beneficial minor aspect bonus.

If we are comparing DPR shouldn't we be comparing the higher damage options? Tiger is a combat form yes, but it exchanges the damage and survivability of the wolverine for pounce, grab and an extra 10 feet of movement.

Seeing as the "Kineticist does less DPR than a commoner with a bow" did the rounds for a solid six months after release, shouldn't we be more honest in our comparisons and builds?

I imagine you were typing as he wrote up his own response, but he adressed an awful lot of this.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Duke of Dosh wrote:

And, completely left out of this comparison is some of the crazy spells Druid (and Hunter) gain access to. Putting those in'd probably imbalance things even further.

I'm no number god when it comes to Pathfinder, but I imagine taking Natural Spell, and then casting spells like Strong Jaw or Magic Fang/G. Magic Fang could widen that gap even further.

I completely forgot about Strong Jaw. Good lord that spell.

Duke of Dosh wrote:


Due to items like Bestial rags, a level 8 shifter should have three aspects to chose from and can pick the most beneficial minor aspect bonus.

A waste of 8000 gp in my opinion. Why should I spend such a large amount of money to feel like a complete class?

As for Rage and shifter wildshape you might as well multiclass Barbarian and never bother with Wolverine form. But at that point you might as well be a druid or feral hunter when multiclassing with Barbarian.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Knight,

The fact my 2003 Ford Focus died a week ago doesn't sit well with me when you make car comparisons...

LOL Let me tell you about the chevy I had for a week before it spontaneously combusted... :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Painful Bugger wrote:
Duke of Dosh wrote:

And, completely left out of this comparison is some of the crazy spells Druid (and Hunter) gain access to. Putting those in'd probably imbalance things even further.

I'm no number god when it comes to Pathfinder, but I imagine taking Natural Spell, and then casting spells like Strong Jaw or Magic Fang/G. Magic Fang could widen that gap even further.

I completely forgot about Strong Jaw. Good lord that spell.

Duke of Dosh wrote:


Due to items like Bestial rags, a level 8 shifter should have three aspects to chose from and can pick the most beneficial minor aspect bonus.

A waste of 8000 gp in my opinion. Why should I spend such a large amount of money to feel like a complete class?

As for Rage and shifter wildshape you might as well multiclass Barbarian and never bother with Wolverine form. But at that point you might as well be a druid or feral hunter when multiclassing with Barbarian.

Oh, /yeah/. From what it looks like, dropping it on yourself's pretty much doubling the output from your dice, at minimum, average, and maximum.

And that's just a preliminary look. Between the two of them, Ranger and Druid spell lists offer a fantastic array of utility spells, buffs, and survivability(Healing, Energy Resistance, etc)

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just took a quick look at the book; can someone please confirm I'm reading this right? i.e. can a 4th level shifter wildshape into a dire bear or dire tiger?


Phranklin wrote:
Just took a quick look at the book; can someone please confirm I'm reading this right? i.e. can a 4th level shifter wildshape into a dire bear or dire tiger?

Yes, they can- albeit, in Tiger's case, limited. The Rakes don't come in to play until level 15. It definitely starts strong, but when you hit level 6, other options (as seen in Painful Bugger's posts) catch up, and by level 8, surpass it entirely.

You also only get to choose from one form at level 4, which is a little disappointing.

Shadow Lodge

...what if, instead of shifter, we call the class Totem? It's more suited to that, mechanics wise. Extra aspects become Totem Pole.

Grand Lodge

Dragonborn3 wrote:
...what if, instead of shifter, we call the class Totem? It's more suited to that, mechanics wise. Extra aspects become Totem Pole.

With a different, more tribal, flavor, and those names/abilities it would be much better imo. It certainly fulfills that fantasy better then a master shapeshifter one.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
...what if, instead of shifter, we call the class Totem? It's more suited to that, mechanics wise. Extra aspects become Totem Pole.

I agree completely.

This touches a lot on what I was trying to explain earlier in thread. The class is playable, but does not live up to the name.
A slight shift in flavour also allows for the introduction of new mechanics/abilities to fill in the dead levels.
Something we have not really seen is a class that explores the mechanics of training animals really. The druid just 'gets' an AC for example.
the Totem could include something where it allowed the rapid training and semi-domestication of a wild animal.
Imagine something like leadership, but with animals, baked into the class. That could be properly awesome.
They come to command entire domains of nature that they reside in.
Something like Beorn from LoTR.

It is an interesting option. Perhaps tie the domestication into the aspects. Depending on which aspects you pick when you gain dominion over a portion of that type of animal.
If you pick mice you begin to be able to talk with and command rodents.
With owl you can commune with and command birds.
Tiger gives you cats.
Etc.

Would that be something that makes the class a lot more unique? Help it feel less like it is missing a primary feature?

Shadow Lodge

J4RH34D wrote:
If you pick mice you begin to be able to talk with and command rodents.

And quickly bring any area of civilization you wanted to it's knees!


Painful Bugger wrote:
I saw somewhere that someone wanted comparison builds between classes. Challenge accepted.

Thank you for your effort Painful Bugger. The comparison truly is painful!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alex Mack wrote:
Painful Bugger wrote:
I saw somewhere that someone wanted comparison builds between classes. Challenge accepted.
Thank you for your effort Painful Bugger. The comparison truly is painful!

Yeah, it is. Especially when you take into account that the Druid and Hunter can't use much of their spellcasting as he made them- even without it, they outstrip the Shifter quite thoroughly

Dark Archive

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In every interview I heard about this book the single most common description of the shifter was something to the effect of: "So you have a shifter with the aspect of the bear. Then you can combine those powers with another animal, like an owl. So you'd have some kind of bear-owl shifter"
Now, this isn't untrue, but I feel it grossly misrepresents the class's powers when the most common example isn't true before level 9.
That's why I'm disappointed, and from where my frustration stems. We were sold the idea that we'd get to mix and match animal forms for the situation. That's only true in a very limited capacity and only later in the game than many people play.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Keydrin wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
...what if, instead of shifter, we call the class Totem? It's more suited to that, mechanics wise. Extra aspects become Totem Pole.
With a different, more tribal, flavor, and those names/abilities it would be much better imo. It certainly fulfills that fantasy better then a master shapeshifter one.

Problem there is that it overlaps with the Barbarian's totems.

Grand Lodge

Alchemaic wrote:
Keydrin wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:
...what if, instead of shifter, we call the class Totem? It's more suited to that, mechanics wise. Extra aspects become Totem Pole.
With a different, more tribal, flavor, and those names/abilities it would be much better imo. It certainly fulfills that fantasy better then a master shapeshifter one.
Problem there is that it overlaps with the Barbarian's totems.

That's a fair point. If this helps, I did mean tribal more based on native american tribes, more spiritual and respectful of nature (and with the general aesthetic of them), rather than the stereotypical barbarian tribes.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
CorvusMask wrote:

I still want to know how much of the reprints have been changed from old versions

Also, yay, finally a review that give info about other stuff than shifter. Or that isn't just a counter review. Either way though, I still don't have good idea what wilderness rules are about, like is it just discovery and foraging rules?

What's in chapter 4:

Discovery and exploration provides a rule subset for the situations of: "We know this place exists somewhere in this large area, and we need to make repeated treks into the wilderness to find it" and "Well, this is a new area. Let's find out what's in here".

Territory rules are a GM tool to help design an area to be explored by a party. It has steps for creation, guidelines for creating random encounters, and gives an example of a territory with a stat block.

A big writeup on the first world that I haven't had time to read. It had a history, some stuff on the eldest, the first world's planar traits, some hazards (including weird 1st world haunts that are affected by positive and negative energy backwards from regular haunts)

Foraging: acquiring anything from the wilderness besides food and water (herbs, spell components, ect.)

Salvaging: breaking down stuff you have to get raw materials to make other stuff. ie: I wanted a magic ring, not a magic dagger! Let me melt down this dagger, so I can use the magic metal to make the ring I want.

A bunch of stuff on the green faith that I haven't read through.

Harvesting poisons: How to acquire poison from living spiders, dead spiders, or plants. Fresh poison expires in 24 hours, but can be preserved with craft(alchemy)
Also, making antivenoms. (the process for which is really cool)

A bunch of natural hazards and disasters.

Herbalism: how to gather herbs (kinda overlaps with foraging), how to prepare herbs, and what that herb concoction can do. Neat, but mostly very minor effects. One thing absent from this section, IMO, is a DC for knowing which of the listed plants exists in what area.

Spells of the Wilderness. A very similar section to Spells of Intrigue, with an appropriate listing of spells and their uses in the wild.

Trophies: How to identify, harvest, and prepare parts of defeated foes as trophies. Trophies can be sold or used as raw materials for creating magic items.

More about weather than I'm ever going to read. Unless I end up running Kingmaker someday.
Includes climate, seasons, and the naturally occurring variations that happen day by day. (temperature variations, different kinds of precipitation, and such)

Wilderness themed traps.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The territory statblocks and "how to make wilderness exciting in a reality where rope trick and divination spells are a thing" advice will likely make it or break it for me. Honestly, Shifter is like 10% of my excitement for the book.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't think it would overlap at all. 'Beast' is very generic, for example, while Celestial, Fiendish, and World Serpent are less so.

Where are the Mouse Totem Barbarians? :)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The foraging and weather subjects might have interest for me. I like the idea of finding spell stuff / being able to brew alchemical items with pine sap and whatnot while away from the cities.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
these sort of nasty forum arguments are the very reason why we may never see another playtest, lol.
It's been downright civil around here compared to other forums. The shifter has NOT gone over well at all. IMO, even if there hadn't been an actual playtest, 'testing the waters' with a preview of proposed abilities could have gone a long way in managing expectations: it's not that the shifter is awful/unplayable, it's that it's not what people wanted/expected so a little heads up might have 'let people down' easier.

Well, while I agree that these arguments are a lot more civil than people here think, because they definitely are, Shifter not being a horrible class is up for debate. Going over it all real quick

1). The Chasis: This part of the class is actually one of the best things about it. 4+Int Skills, 2 good saves, Full BAB, D10 HD. This is rather nice.

2). The Non-shifting parts: These are pretty lackluster and lacking, but that's too be expected. However the abilities themselves aren't great. The AC ability is not that good for a class that is going to be a frontliner and lacks the options to occupy other roles. It's two-stat dependent in a class that is also going to want Strength and Constitution as well. The rest is just bland stuff ripped from Druid and Ranger.

3). The Claws: These just make me irritated because they steal so much of the focus of the class. For a class focused on full-body shifting and becoming a variety of animals, being stuck with a pair of claws for the first four levels does not help. It also doesn't help that the max damage scale they get is D10. At level 20. Which any other class can achieve by spending a small amount of money at any level for a weapon. Oh, and I have no idea if you can attack with both of these without using TWF. Points on the DR shredding abilities, those are nice.

4). The Shifting: This is just a letdown throughout. It's limited in use and duration, limited in forms, the forms don't scale that much at all, the minor forms bonuses are mostly small ones that are probably better when stacked but start off as worse than A Barbarian's Rage and similar abilities.

5). Lack of Versatility: Overall this class just lacks in options. If this is backlash against the class ability bloat from Occult Adventures, it's a good move, but the baby's been tossed out with the bathwater. The lack of options at all means the class lacks versatility in what it can do and be, and contributes to making the class feel bland and like I can level it up on auto-pilot, and if there are no good alternatives, I can play it on auto-pilot as well. This class would greatly benefit from spells, which I usually hate to see because of how often they are shoved into classes these days.

I won’t go into the people who were expecting X and getting Y. That failure is down to Paizo not choosing to go that way or not knowing it’s own audience, but is moot to discussing the classes balance as is. As is, this class is pretty obviously a Hybrid Class, not a Base Class like the description of Ultimate Wilderness says, mostly of Monk and Druid, with a dash of Hunter, but without even some of the class specific abilities of those hybrids.

On the idea that this was designed for new players and was designed to be more easier for them to get into Pathfinder, why would that be done with a splatbook that most new players are unlikely to pick up? If it would be done to anything it would be to the Core classes before a hybrid class in a very late splatbook.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
captain yesterday wrote:

How easy would it be to convert Vine Leshies to Starfinder.

Skittermanders need some competition.

I have completed this (even posted it before thinking about it and deleted it).

I will wait until after the PDF becomes available to the general public. It strikes me as somewhat wrong that a race would be available as a conversion for another game before it is available for the game in which it was made!

:)


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Dragonborn3 wrote:

I don't think it would overlap at all. 'Beast' is very generic, for example, while Celestial, Fiendish, and World Serpent are less so.

Where are the Mouse Totem Barbarians? :)

Let us not insult the brave wilderness dwelling ratfolk of the noble Mouse Totem clan!

;)


Ectar wrote:

What's in Chapter 4:

Wilderness themed traps.

There's also one of those in Chapter 1.

Silver Crusade

Duke of Dosh wrote:
Phranklin wrote:
Just took a quick look at the book; can someone please confirm I'm reading this right? i.e. can a 4th level shifter wildshape into a dire bear or dire tiger?

Yes, they can- albeit, in Tiger's case, limited. The Rakes don't come in to play until level 15. It definitely starts strong, but when you hit level 6, other options (as seen in Painful Bugger's posts) catch up, and by level 8, surpass it entirely.

You also only get to choose from one form at level 4, which is a little disappointing.

So... STR-based, half-orc, full BAB DIRE BEAR at 4th, yes? with possible amulet of might fist / magic fang items applicable to the build yes? wow...


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Phranklin wrote:
Duke of Dosh wrote:
Phranklin wrote:
Just took a quick look at the book; can someone please confirm I'm reading this right? i.e. can a 4th level shifter wildshape into a dire bear or dire tiger?

Yes, they can- albeit, in Tiger's case, limited. The Rakes don't come in to play until level 15. It definitely starts strong, but when you hit level 6, other options (as seen in Painful Bugger's posts) catch up, and by level 8, surpass it entirely.

You also only get to choose from one form at level 4, which is a little disappointing.
So... STR-based, half-orc, full BAB DIRE BEAR at 4th, yes? with possible amulet of might fist / magic fang items applicable to the build yes? wow...

Yeah, it's pretty nice for 4th level, but as people have pointed out, as soon as two levels later they aren't that strong anymore and two levels after most other options surpass it. The Major Forms suffer from a major lack of scaling, both in the fact that they don't scale that much at all, and what does scale isn't that much for the levels you get them. So the class becomes an early-game beast at fourth level but very quickly loses that status.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Xenocrat wrote:
Ectar wrote:

What's in Chapter 4:

Wilderness themed traps.

There's also one of those in Chapter 1.

The three racial entries in chapter 1 each contain a variety of race based character options of the sort that you would expect to find in other chapters of the book.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The race-based options are very... proprietary.

They've avoided some of the ambiguity of tomes like the ARG, but at the cost of accessibility.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Duke of Dosh wrote:
Phranklin wrote:
Just took a quick look at the book; can someone please confirm I'm reading this right? i.e. can a 4th level shifter wildshape into a dire bear or dire tiger?

Yes, they can- albeit, in Tiger's case, limited. The Rakes don't come in to play until level 15. It definitely starts strong, but when you hit level 6, other options (as seen in Painful Bugger's posts) catch up, and by level 8, surpass it entirely.

You also only get to choose from one form at level 4, which is a little disappointing.

But you are one level away from getting your second form.

The Shifter does seem to follow the general pattern for martial classes of picking from its options primarily with character leveling, whereas prepared spellcasters pick from their options on a daily or even spur of the moment basis.


David knott 242 wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Ectar wrote:

What's in Chapter 4:

Wilderness themed traps.

There's also one of those in Chapter 1.

The three racial entries in chapter 1 each contain a variety of race based character options of the sort that you would expect to find in other chapters of the book.

Trust me to screw up a Shifter joke. I assumed it was in Chapter 1, just like the Vigilante was Chapter 1 in Ultimate Intrigue.

Silver Crusade

Saithor wrote:
Phranklin wrote:
So... STR-based, half-orc, full BAB DIRE BEAR at 4th, yes? with possible amulet of might fist / magic fang items applicable to the build yes? wow...
Yeah, it's pretty nice for 4th level, but as people have pointed out, as soon as two levels later they aren't that strong anymore and two levels after most other options surpass it. The Major Forms suffer from a major lack of scaling, both in the fact that they don't scale that much at all, and what does scale isn't that much for the levels you get them. So the class becomes an early-game beast at fourth level but very quickly loses that status.

Interesting, thank you for your insights. If what you say is true, I think a 4-level dip could be interesting for some half-caster builds like bloodrager and fighter child of amaznen and avcavna (I apologize in advance for the botched spelling of that last one).

Do they suffer from the same problems druid face? (i.e. need the wild armor enchantment for high AC builds and need natural spell feat in order to cast in dire bear form?)


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Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Phranklin wrote:
Duke of Dosh wrote:
Phranklin wrote:
Just took a quick look at the book; can someone please confirm I'm reading this right? i.e. can a 4th level shifter wildshape into a dire bear or dire tiger?

Yes, they can- albeit, in Tiger's case, limited. The Rakes don't come in to play until level 15. It definitely starts strong, but when you hit level 6, other options (as seen in Painful Bugger's posts) catch up, and by level 8, surpass it entirely.

You also only get to choose from one form at level 4, which is a little disappointing.
So... STR-based, half-orc, full BAB DIRE BEAR at 4th, yes? with possible amulet of might fist / magic fang items applicable to the build yes? wow...

Yeah! Level 4, you’re the nastiest martial in the game, as far as I can tell. At level five, you get a second form as well, although like the Druid, you’re only able to shift once per day.


I am on the fence about buying this book. What gets most of my interest is the familiar and animal companion sections. Are the new options cool and useful? Are there new archetypes?

I have heard that there is some stuff reprinted from animal archive and familiar folio, is the new content from that section worth it? Thanks in advance for any answers.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Xenocrat wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Ectar wrote:

What's in Chapter 4:

Wilderness themed traps.

There's also one of those in Chapter 1.

The three racial entries in chapter 1 each contain a variety of race based character options of the sort that you would expect to find in other chapters of the book.

Trust me to screw up a Shifter joke. I assumed it was in Chapter 1, just like the Vigilante was Chapter 1 in Ultimate Intrigue.

Sorry I missed that. The racial options are so varied that it would actually be plausible for a racially based ranger wilderness trap option to be in chapter 1.

There are probably a few "traps" in the archetypes section as well, but I haven't analyzed them in enough detail to identify them.


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Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Phranklin wrote:
Saithor wrote:
Phranklin wrote:
So... STR-based, half-orc, full BAB DIRE BEAR at 4th, yes? with possible amulet of might fist / magic fang items applicable to the build yes? wow...
Yeah, it's pretty nice for 4th level, but as people have pointed out, as soon as two levels later they aren't that strong anymore and two levels after most other options surpass it. The Major Forms suffer from a major lack of scaling, both in the fact that they don't scale that much at all, and what does scale isn't that much for the levels you get them. So the class becomes an early-game beast at fourth level but very quickly loses that status.

Interesting, thank you for your insights. If what you say is true, I think a 4-level dip could be interesting for some half-caster builds like bloodrager and fighter child of amaznen and avcavna (I apologize in advance for the botched spelling of that last one).

Do they suffer from the same problems druid face? (i.e. need the wild armor enchantment for high AC builds and need natural spell feat in order to cast in dire bear form?)

Wisdom plus a scaling boost to AC meant I found Mage Armor was enough to get by on. To make roleplay interesting, they’d really like the feat that lets them speak in animal form, or a cheap ring for the same.


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Phranklin wrote:
Saithor wrote:
Phranklin wrote:
So... STR-based, half-orc, full BAB DIRE BEAR at 4th, yes? with possible amulet of might fist / magic fang items applicable to the build yes? wow...
Yeah, it's pretty nice for 4th level, but as people have pointed out, as soon as two levels later they aren't that strong anymore and two levels after most other options surpass it. The Major Forms suffer from a major lack of scaling, both in the fact that they don't scale that much at all, and what does scale isn't that much for the levels you get them. So the class becomes an early-game beast at fourth level but very quickly loses that status.

Interesting, thank you for your insights. If what you say is true, I think a 4-level dip could be interesting for some half-caster builds like bloodrager and fighter child of amaznen and avcavna (I apologize in advance for the botched spelling of that last one).

Do they suffer from the same problems druid face? (i.e. need the wild armor enchantment for high AC builds and need natural spell feat in order to cast in dire bear form?)

Well, first off you won't need Natural Spell because Shifter has no spellcasting capabilities at all. Also, it's AC is mostly a Wis to AC bonus out of armor or half-wis while in armor. Shifted form AC is probably just by animal. Painful Bugger ran the math, and it generally looks like the Druid is a better shifter than this.


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Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FreezingWolf wrote:

I am on the fence about buying this book. What gets most of my interest is the familiar and animal companion sections. Are the new options cool and useful? Are there new archetypes?

I have heard that there is some stuff reprinted from animal archive and familiar folio, is the new content from that section worth it?

The familiar and animal companion sections are worth it.

New animal companion archetypes are neat for concept stuff (not-quite-animal) or doing things animal companions lack the skills/intelligence for (tracking or certain combat maneuvers). There are also some nice feats for animal companions.

Familiar archetypes lean more towards neat concept stuff, since you’re not going to beat the added party power of Mauler/Guardian or the crafting boost of Valet. There is a nice familiar archetype for being more of a party face, though, rounding out the party role options. The cool options include a familiar that’s more in charge, one that is good at tricking people (including their master), and a familiar that has a piece of somebody’s soul.

Both animal companions and familiars get a lot of new options, including vermin and plants. Large-size bears (at last!) are a stand-out option, but I enjoyed a lot of them.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
FreezingWolf wrote:

I am on the fence about buying this book. What gets most of my interest is the familiar and animal companion sections. Are the new options cool and useful? Are there new archetypes?

I have heard that there is some stuff reprinted from animal archive and familiar folio, is the new content from that section worth it?

The magic item slots section is expanded a little and updated from that in the Animal Archive.

The list of Animal Companions and Familiars is much more extensive, although the Improved Familiar options from the Familiar Folio aren't there. This makes sense as those aren't really tied to wilderness and nature.

The Bodyguard, Racer, and Totem Guide companion archetypes have been reprinted, and there are thirteen new ones added. I kind of like Precocious Companion: although you lose evasion, improved evasion, and the 4th or 7th level ability advancement (whichever applies), you get double the tricks and an increase in Int, Wis, and Cha at 4th or 7th instead. For companions that need to be more versatile than just a combat pig.

Emissary, Figment, Infiltrator, Mascot, Mauler, Pilferer, Protector, Sage, and Valet are reprinted familiar archetypes. A number of the new tricks are specific to spider companions or plant companions, but those are quite cool: Cocoon trains your spider pet to weave web around the subdued victim of your choice and Pose as Scenery allows you to command your plant to look like just another part of the shrubbery.


Inkfist wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Has anyone compared the Shifter to the Unchained Monk? That would probably be the most comparable previously existing class.

Significantly less damage than a Umonk 2 hand power attacking with a sansetsukon for those first few levels. Though your defences should be slightly higher. There is a bit more parity between fists vs claws with the shifter doing well if they could snag a race with a primary natural bite or gore attack.

At 4 Shifters get a nice boost with the size and stat bonuses from wildshape. Things like grab, trip, rage and super early access to pounce are all very nice toys. (actually Umonks with flying kick are the only full BAB class that get access to a pounce like ability anywhere near as soon, though they have wait several levels before its quite as strong)

Later on the UMonk tends to make more full bab attacks and has a stronger nova options and shenanigans like medusa's wrath. Shifters get options to hit harder and look to have ways of boosting their HP, defences and survivability more easily.

To me, the biggest difference between the shifter and the unchained monk is that the monk gets more tricks. Every two or three levels the monk is getting some sort of flavorful power like "tongue of the sun and moon" and "timeless body". This is on top of all of his combat abilities like ki powers, style strikes, and flat bonuses.

I guess the reason I got so upset over the shifter class is because I feel like the shifter should have that kind of stuff too. This lack of 'flavor' abilities makes the shifter dull compared to other classes at higher levels. Aside from having somewhat higher damage and AC, the shifter isn't terribly different from an NPC warrior with scrolls of Beast Shape II.

Ah well, I guess I'll just have to get over it. I still have my Spheres Shifter and Beastsoul Monk :)


I just like hyperrealistic statues of spiders. Nothing suspicious is going on!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

More Chapter 4!

I won’t go into the First World stuff until I’ve read and digested it, except to say new haunts (one at CR 10) and a few nice hazards.

Foraging and salvage. Two sides of a similar coin: foraging is getting materials found in nature to make... herbs, alchemical supplies, spell components, and primitive weapons. Salvaging is the pricey version that lets you get crafting materials and the like. It’s simple enough: spend time (based on abundance of resources), make check, pass or fail. There is a cute thing you can do to salvage a perfectly good (but not the one you need) potion, too...

Harvesting poisons. How to get poison from... dead poisonous creatures, hazards, live poisonous creatures (“G’day. Oi’m here ta show ya how ta get venom from a snake without gettin’ bit.”). How to make antitoxins. 14 new natural poisons, and if you’re not using Nymph’s Lure at least once in your campaign, you make the golem cry.

More chapter 4 later! (Hazards and Disasters coming up!)


Feros wrote:
The magic item slots section is expanded a little and updated from that in the Animal Archive.

Do the magic item slot lists resemble those found in this blog post?

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