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I hope the previews for this one come out earlier. This is like Starfinder's first bestiary, so a bit of expectation management would be welcomed.
I have a question. All creatures in the book were said to be described in two pages, and also get two pictures. So...
Are each of the two pages getting one of the two illustrations or are the two pictures on the same page, just like was done in the Core Rulebook for the core races?
I agree about the previews, it will be 3 weeks till this is in stores and subscribers will begin to get it on monday.
I especially would like to know which races are playable beyond dragonkin & contemplatives and how they differ from the 7 core races, which are fine, but all have a "too humanoid" feel.
Check out First Contact for some other examples.
My guess for Dragonkins:
- +2 STR, +2 Cha, -2 Dex
- Medium Dragon
- Immune to Sleep and Paralysis effects
- Darkvision 60 ft
- Gliding Wings
- +2 Diplomacy and Intimidate
- Dragon Gland: like the implant, but 1d6/2 HD, same rules for recovery.
My guess for Dragonkins:
- +2 STR, +2 Cha, -2 Dex
- Medium Dragon
- Immune to Sleep and Paralysis effects
- Darkvision 60 ft
- Gliding Wings
- +2 Diplomacy and Intimidate
- Dragon Gland: like the implant, but 1d6/2 HD, same rules for recovery.
I am pretty sure that they are supposed to be Large, not Medium. Do the other features seem reasonably compatible with the existing Pathfinder monster entry?
From what I glanced in the book I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be Large as well.
From what I glanced in the book I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be Large as well.
Many starfaring dragonkin families have resorted to genetic engineering to reduce their size to better fit in the narrow corridors of space stations and starships, and thanks to their near-telepathic bond with their partners, no humanoid of the legion would dream of flying a starfighter without her dragonkin copilot.
You were saying?
I, for one, welcome our new wookiee dragonkin overlords co-pilots.
It's a fun month all around. :-)
From what I glanced in the book I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be Large as well.Many starfaring dragonkin families have resorted to genetic engineering to reduce their size to better fit in the narrow corridors of space stations and starships, and thanks to their near-telepathic bond with their partners, no humanoid of the legion would dream of flying a starfighter without her dragonkin copilot.You were saying?
The fact that Medium Dragonkin exist doesn't mean the Large sized ones no longer exist. It even says "many" in what you bolded, not "all".
The fact that Medium Dragonkin exist doesn't mean the Large sized ones no longer exist. It even says "many" in what you bolded, not "all".From what I glanced in the book I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be Large as well.Many starfaring dragonkin families have resorted to genetic engineering to reduce their size to better fit in the narrow corridors of space stations and starships, and thanks to their near-telepathic bond with their partners, no humanoid of the legion would dream of flying a starfighter without her dragonkin copilot.You were saying?
They may still exist, but you cannot have a 10HD Large Dragon as a "playable race"...
They may still exist, but you cannot have a 10HD Large Dragon as a "playable race"...The fact that Medium Dragonkin exist doesn't mean the Large sized ones no longer exist. It even says "many" in what you bolded, not "all".From what I glanced in the book I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be Large as well.Many starfaring dragonkin families have resorted to genetic engineering to reduce their size to better fit in the narrow corridors of space stations and starships, and thanks to their near-telepathic bond with their partners, no humanoid of the legion would dream of flying a starfighter without her dragonkin copilot.You were saying?
HD doesn't exist in Starfinder.
And even if it did, the playable version wouldn't have them.
They may still exist, but you cannot have a 10HD Large Dragon as a "playable race"...The fact that Medium Dragonkin exist doesn't mean the Large sized ones no longer exist. It even says "many" in what you bolded, not "all".From what I glanced in the book I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be Large as well.Many starfaring dragonkin families have resorted to genetic engineering to reduce their size to better fit in the narrow corridors of space stations and starships, and thanks to their near-telepathic bond with their partners, no humanoid of the legion would dream of flying a starfighter without her dragonkin copilot.You were saying?HD doesn't exist in Starfinder.
And even if it did, the playable version wouldn't have them.
Without using HD, a Large Dragonkin would have to be severely toned down... Between playing as a nerfed Large Dragonkin or a standard Medium one, I'll take the latter.
Without using HD, a Large Dragonkin would have to be severely toned down... Between playing as a nerfed Large Dragonkin or a standard Medium one, I'll take the latter.They may still exist, but you cannot have a 10HD Large Dragon as a "playable race"...The fact that Medium Dragonkin exist doesn't mean the Large sized ones no longer exist. It even says "many" in what you bolded, not "all".From what I glanced in the book I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be Large as well.Many starfaring dragonkin families have resorted to genetic engineering to reduce their size to better fit in the narrow corridors of space stations and starships, and thanks to their near-telepathic bond with their partners, no humanoid of the legion would dream of flying a starfighter without her dragonkin copilot.You were saying?HD doesn't exist in Starfinder.
And even if it did, the playable version wouldn't have them.
Then you will most likely have to settle for never getting to play a Large Dragonkin then outside of GM approval. Whereas other people will be more than happy to play a large draconic creature and not care that it doesn't have 10 more HD/Levels on everyone else.
Toning monsters down to make them playable worked great in Blood of the Sea.
Then you will most likely have to settle for never getting to play a Large Dragonkin then outside of GM approval. Whereas other people will be more than happy to play a large draconic creature and not care that it doesn't have 10 more HD/Levels on everyone else.
Toning monsters down to make them playable worked great in Blood of the Sea.
TBH, I'd prefer a Medium Dragonkin over a Large one. Less customization problems... and cost, in line with the new SF weapon system, adventuring being less tedious since you can actually FIT in narrow hallways...
You don't have many Large PC races in PF, because of how restrictive your Large size is... and not even your "higher weapon damage" can elevate this.
Furthermore, people have been asking for a playable draconic race for years now. Ever wonder why the half-breed templates can't be used by PCs? Because you now have the aasimar, tiefling, geniekin, skinwalker, dhampir and more. Oddly enough, there is no PC alternative for the half-dragon... whihc has been filed as an "overused and overpowered PC template".
Finally, I think I lost count of the line "should be played only with the GM’s permission." in Blood of the Seas. At this point, give me a suitable version that won't conflict with the game itself.
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Size in Starfinder has no effect on weapons, either cost or damage.
And we HAVE had a playable draconic race for years now.
Yes, those monstrous races in BoS have that cavaet, as even though they're toned down they're still really, really strong. But then that cavaet applies to all non-core races. Not every GM will let you show up with a Drow or Aasimar.
Sarcesians are apparently a Large and presumably playable humanoid race in this setting, so there is nothing in the game inherently preventing Dragonkin from being size Large -- but that quote from the Starfinder Core Rulebook does suggest that they have taken a reduction in size to be more useful as a co-pilot than as a mount. I guess we will find out for sure next week, when people start getting their Alien Archive PDFs.
Size in Starfinder has no effect on weapons, either cost or damage.
And we HAVE had a playable draconic race for years now.
Yes, those monstrous races in BoS have that cavaet, as even though they're toned down they're still really, really strong. But then that cavaet applies to all non-core races. Not every GM will let you show up with a Drow or Aasimar.
There's also a weaker dragon-kin race that's easier to get GM approval for.
There's also a weaker dragon-kin race that's easier to get GM approval for.Size in Starfinder has no effect on weapons, either cost or damage.
And we HAVE had a playable draconic race for years now.
Yes, those monstrous races in BoS have that cavaet, as even though they're toned down they're still really, really strong. But then that cavaet applies to all non-core races. Not every GM will let you show up with a Drow or Aasimar.
*nods*
They don't have the Dragon Type though.
I'm just happy for 20 playable races. It can't come soon enough.
There's also a weaker dragon-kin race that's easier to get GM approval for.Size in Starfinder has no effect on weapons, either cost or damage.
And we HAVE had a playable draconic race for years now.
Yes, those monstrous races in BoS have that cavaet, as even though they're toned down they're still really, really strong. But then that cavaet applies to all non-core races. Not every GM will let you show up with a Drow or Aasimar.
*nods*
They don't have the Dragon Type though.
Huh, no... People didn't request a hybrid between a kobold and a wyvern; people have been requesting for Paizo's take on D&D's Dragonborn. Y'know, the usual hybrid between a human and a true dragon?
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No, I'm pretty sure people haven't been that specific. They've been wanting a Humanoid shaped Dragon race and they got one.
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No, I'm pretty sure people haven't been that specific. They've been wanting a Humanoid shaped Dragon race and they got one.
They got the "wrong" one...
Yes, you're right: the wyvaran IS a Dragon PC race... but it's "technically" not a good replacement for the Dragonborn nor a "consolation prized" race for the half-dragon. Aasimars are to the unplayable half-celestials, just as tieflings are to half-fiends, geniekins to half-elementals, dhampirs to vampires and skinwalkers to lycanthropes.
We didn't get a "Blood of the Dragon" booklet detailling a new PC race, like how skinwalkers were first added to "Blood of the Moon", with several bloodlines (chromatic, metallic, primal, imperial, outer, esoteric, planar), like how aasimars, tieflings, dhampirs and skinwalkers got, with new feats, skill usages, items, spells and archetypes.
So yeah, wyvarans are a playable Dragon race... but come on, it's a wyvern, NOT a true dragon. The Dragonkin in Starfinder will surely be what people have been asking for some times now.
On a sidenote, I do expect Large PC races to be few and far between even in Starfinder, mostly because, well, being in a narrow/cramped space isn't going to get you somewhere. Dude, in PF, the Trox are the ONLY playable Large race. Yep, and they didn't get to half-giants or something similar to D&D goliaths, possibly due to the size.
The Haan are Large, playable monstrous humanoids that get 1st-level flight (i.e. feather fall) as a non-magical at-will ability.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Dragonkin are Large, with a 1/day breath weapon.
Honestly, the Haan make me so angry...I just don't see how they're supposed to be a player race. They're literally Large giant insects with no opposable thumbs. How do they wield weapons? How do they wear armor? It just screams "convoluted and disruptive to games".
Just waiting for the order to jiggle so I can get my download...
I'll be totally honest with you, I'm less concerned with size in a game where everybody gets a machine gun with a range of fifty feet.
Regarding the size issue of large player races, is enlarge/reduce person still in the spell section 8i don´t have my CRB handy)?
If not, it shouldn´t be too hard to build a technological gadget which does the same.
Nope... nowhere to be found ?_?
I'll be totally honest with you, I'm less concerned with size in a game where everybody gets a machine gun with a range of fifty feet.
Size alteration now boils down to stat adjustments, increased carrying capacities and better extra damage with melee attacks since weapons don't increase in damage with size anymore.
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No, I'm pretty sure people haven't been that specific. They've been wanting a Humanoid shaped Dragon race and they got one.
To be fair, this isn't just a JiCi complaint. I've heard other folks complain that the Wyvaran just doesn't scratch the "dragon-humanoid" character niche in the same way as Dragonborn do. I think just completely dismissing this opinion is comparable to a situation where, say Paizo didn't include dwarfs, and just telling dwarf fans they can play halflings if they want a short human-like humanoid.
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Yeaaaaah, its kinda like saying "Nagaji are snake people, so you don't need playable lizardfolk". Heck, I would argue that even though nagaji are snake people, I wouldn't mind playable version of serpentfolk itself since just because both are reptiles or snakes doesn't really make them the same thing.
Especially if you are going to say "well elf and humans aren't obviously same things despite them looking the same" <_< Plus going with "they both share same animal so same thing" just kind of implies that only content/feature/lore race has is the animal gimmick.
Anyhoo, dunno if that made sense, but I agree that saying wyvern humanoid is same as dragon humanoid is just like saying dwarves are same as halflings. Or halflings same as gnomes I guess? All of the core races being the same, you get the idea
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Okay, my apologies then, I honestly haven't seen any complaints of that nature directed at the Wyvaran till this thread.
I was responding initially to JiCi's statements that Pathfinder didn't have a playable Dragon race. I wasnt saying I'm opposed to half-dragon race or that since the Wyvaran exists people should stop asking for one, cause LINNORMS!
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Okay, my apologies then, I honestly haven't seen any complaints of that nature directed at the Wyvaran till this thread.
"Complaints" is rather an overstatement... To me, wyvarans are a sub-species of kobolds, which they are, but that got slapped with the Dragon type in order to show an example using that type with the race building rules from the Advanced Race Guide... when, let's face, wyvarans should have gotten the Humanoid (kobold) type.
That they are wyverns isn't a bad thing either, considering the close relationship between kobolds and dragon-like creatures. The only "issue" is that people cannot play an actual humanoid character with prominent draconic traits similar to the D&D Dragonborn. In fact they got so popular that they appeared as regular races in BOTH 4E and 5E.
I was responding initially to JiCi's statements that Pathfinder didn't have a playable Dragon race. I wasnt saying I'm opposed to half-dragon race or that since the Wyvaran exists people should stop asking for one, cause LINNORMS!
That would be because to me, a wyvern isn't a true dragon, as opposed to a Red or Gold Dragon. There is a chart that explains that a creature with 4 legs and a pair of wings is called a "dragon":
- No forelegs = wyvern- No wings = drake
- No leg = amphithere
- No leg AND wings = wyrm
- No hind legs AND wings = linnorm
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Well I don't care that Linnorms aren't "true" Dragons, they're f&&@ing awesome ^w^
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Uh oh Someone said the magic word (Starts with a L end with a Inorms)
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I don't really care whether we will get another "half human" race, but I definitely want reptile race that fills the same role as Vesk in starfinder: buff strong scary reptile people role. So playable lizardfolk race would be nice, but I don't think it would be the "okay now we have playable lizard race, no more reptile races ever again!" kind of a thing.
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People seem to just not like that it isn't called Dragonborn -.-
People seem to just not like that it isn't called Dragonborn -.-
Not "that it isn't called", more like "that doesn't feel"...
Look, a wyvern may be a Dragon-type creature, but it is not a dragon "by D&D's / Pathfinder's / D20's" definition.
I understand Paizo's stand about it: the half-dragon template in 3.5E D&D was used a lot and it was powerful in the hands of many players and DMs alike. This is one reason why it was nerfed for PCs. One example is this:
A half-dragon retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains a breath weapon usable once per day based on the dragon variety (see below). The breath weapon deals 1d6 hit points of damage per racial HD possessed by the half-dragon (Reflex half; DC 10 + 1/2 creature's racial HD + creature's Con modifier).
Class levels don't count toward "HD possessed", which is logical, but still a modified rule from the original writing which didn't separate racail and class HD.
The problem with several players is the lack of a replacement or alternative to play a half-dragon. I stated before about PC races that actually try to replicate templates. For instance, aasimars can take a feat to gain wings and a fly speed. With the removal of level adjustments (thank goodness), templates cannot be easily used by PCs, hence having races that emulate them. In the end, unfortunately, the half-dragon didn't get such a race to compensate.
The Dragonkin is essentially a Dragonborn... minus the fact that it isn't created by a deity. Now, how is it going to be used in Starfinder? We'll hav eto wait to find out.
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At this point, please start another thread, as this isn't really about Alien Archives anymore, is it.
Am buying into Starfinder so I will purchase this. 80 monsters isn't much because its surely going to be while before we really need more pC options, races, kit etc?
Have an enormous book to play with first!
At this point, please start another thread, as this isn't really about Alien Archives anymore, is it.
True... but the conversation about it is over. We're cool.
Back on topic, I'm kinda curious if we're going to get templates here...
Am buying into Starfinder so I will purchase this. 80 monsters isn't much because its surely going to be while before we really need more pC options, races, kit etc?
Have an enormous book to play with first!
It's a smaller book because they apparently want to make it a yearly release, as opposed of releasing a huge bestiary once every 2 or 3 years.