Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Book of the Damned (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Book of the Damned (PFRPG)
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Abandon All Hope!

As long as mortals have feared what awaits them after death, the threat of damnation has loomed. Powerful fiendish lords rule the deepest, darkest reaches of the Great Beyond: archdevils, demon lords, the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and more. Such is the power of their evil that even angels cannot resist it—when one servant of Heaven cataloged all the evil in existence in the Book of the Damned, Heaven's judges doomed him to exile, appalled at what he had wrought. And now you hold those horrors in your hands!

Pathfinder RPG Book of the Damned explores the evil planes and their fiendish rulers as they exist in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Book of the Damned includes:

  • Descriptions for dozens of archdevils, demon lords, Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and other fiendish divinities, including the foul boons they grant to their most devoted followers.
  • Explorations of otherworldly fiendish realms, including the infernal reaches of Hell, the death-haunted expanses of Abaddon, and the nightmare depths of the Abyss.
  • Several brand-new monsters to fill out the ranks of all 11 of the fiendish races, from sinister classics such as demons and devils to new favorites like asuras and sahkils.
  • New blasphemous rituals, magic items, powerful artifacts, and spells to arm your villains with or for heroes to discover and defy.
  • Three fiend-focused prestige classes, ready to vex and terrify adventurers who dare stand against their plots.
  • An extensive collection of in-world excerpts from the sinister pages of the Book of the Damned itself.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-970-7

Content Advisory
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Book of the Damned deals with many dark and intense concepts. The topic of demons and devils is not for everyone, nor is exploration of the themes these fiends embody and the practices they demand of their worshipers. You should make sure that your game group is comfortable with the contents of this book before using them in play—if even one player is uncomfortable with including some of the concepts in here, you should set those portions of the book (or the entire book) aside and focus on other plots for your game. Buyers should beware that the content of this book is not appropriate for all ages, and parents especially are encouraged to review the book before buying it.

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

Hero Lab Online
Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop
Archives of Nethys

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Five Evil Stars for a Five Star Evil Book!

5/5

Paizo's Book of the Damned does the nigh unthinkable in the increasingly politically correct gaming industry, in that it is filled with truly evil beings that commit hideous and offensive acts upon the universe. This book collects the best selling Book of the Damned series from Paizo and adds new parts here and there. If you have the previous books, it is still worth getting this for the new material, but your mileage may vary.

I absolutely love how much this book triggers people! I'd expect nothing less from a product called "Book of the Damned." The art is absolutely gorgeous, the lore is evocative and the evil contained within will help you unleash the hordes of heck on your unsuspecting players - and they'll thank you for it.

It's sold out now, so if you see a copy somewhere, snatch it up! This will be a much sought after collector's item for years to come.

Thank you for treating your customers like adults, Paizo. Every toolbox needs evil toys and this book helps fit that bill!


crappy overall

2/5

first 2chapters are horrid, the art is garbage. Last 3 chapters steadily grow better. I'd write more and have, but this stupid program keeps deleting my reviews! Therefore, PM me if you really want to know.


Mostly flavor for DMs, little use to players

1/5

I would not recommend this book to anyone except DMs who wanted a lot of deep flavor text on evil gods, evil planes and evil outsiders. The vast bulk of material is stuff that the DM can read in order to form a more coherent world view inside his head, but much of the material is such that it is not only useless to players mechanically, but even further, it is even difficult to convey to players flavor-wise.

Of the 280+ pages, about 120 (so almost half the book) is spent on detailing evil gods that were too small to receive full writeups in previous products. Gods like Baphomet, Dispater, Kostchtchie, Lamashtu, Mephistopheles, Moloch, Nocticula, Orcus, Pazuzu and Szuriel receive two-page writeups -- about 50 in total, covering about 100 pages. The other 20 pages in this section offer two-page writeups for 10 groupings like "Asura Ranas" and "Daemon Harbringers", giving brief detail to groupings gods even smaller than those who merited full two-pagers per individual. This section is essentially useless to players, but the DM can make some use of it for players by building cults that worship these guys and positioning them as enemies that have some of their background fleshed out thanks to this book. Having said that, spending almost half the book to detail the obscure gods of the guys who are going to be sword fodder for the players in three combat rounds? I think a hardcover slot could have been used for something much more useful.

The next 40 pages cover evil planes like Hell and Abyss. This, I think, is one of the more useful sections in the book, because at higher levels, players and campaigns are often going to be venturing into these environments, so getting more detail on them is very good stuff, and the DM can really use this as very concrete setting material for adventures. I actually wish that the art budget from the entire first section had been put into this section, because getting lots of cool images to use as visual aids to show players when they venture into a plane would have been extremely useful to me as a DM. Unfortunately, this is the smallest of the book's four sections, showing a big disconnect between what Paizo thinks we need and what I feel I need.

The third section is essentially the crunch section. Feats, domains, magic items, prestige classes and stuff like that. 95% of it is useless to players, and essentially exists just for the DM to build bad guy statblocks that the players are never going to see. There's a few occasional things that the players can use, like the Moon and Rivers subdomains, but by and large this section is useless unless you are the sort of DM who gets enjoyment out of building statblocks for your bad guys.

The fourth section is called a bestiary, but don't think it's like the Bestiary books simply presenting statblocks -- it has that too, but only about 14 of its 40 pages are statblocks for new monsters. The larger part of this section is flavor descriptions going over existing outsiders (like six pages for devils, six pages for daemons and six pages for demons) and giving them more flavor than existed previously. It's...not useless, I suppose. Some of the evil outsider flavor can be useful for DMs to flesh out encounters between evil outsiders and players. I guess this would be my second favorite section of the book, after the evil planes section.

Finally there's an appendix that presents excerpts from the in-world Book of the Damned in replica-like format as if you were reading the actual book. Kind of neat as a novelty but I didn't feel I got much use out of it.

So essentially there's five sections -- Gods, Planes, Crunch, Bestiary and Excerpts. Gods and Crunch are mostly only useful to build the bad guys of the campaign. Gods is more flavor side, Crunch is more crunch side. But I seriously question the decision to devote over half a hardcover to material that is mostly just useful to build the guys that might be dead in three rounds. My dislike for this decision is a big reason why I only give the book one star. Planes and Bestiary are more useful sections, but they are only about 80 of the book's 280+ pages. Bestiary is about as big as it needed to be -- I don't need any more flavor or statblocks that were presented there, so I wouldn't have wanted to see that section expanded further, but Planes could have and IMO should have been expanded far more. I could have used much, much more detail on the adventuring environments that I as DM could present to players.

Overall I just feel like this book was a big misstep and mis-gauge in what is useful. At least from my personal perspective -- other DMs may disagree. And it's miscategorized -- this book should have been in the DM-focused Campaign Setting line like Inner Sea Gods, to which it is sort of an evil sequel, rather than in the core line where, IMO, books should be more player-useful.

I should add one exception. This book could be really useful and worth its price if you are running an evil campaign. In that case, all the evil gods stuff and evil crunch stuff will actually be player-useful, which rockets the utility of this book upward. If you are running an evil campaign, I would actually consider this a four-star book.


Reprints and Bad Artwork

1/5

The best thing about the new Book of the Damned that can truly be said to be original to it, is the completed list of obediences. The rest of the material consists of reprints from the prior Books of the Damned, or retcons to that material that create new problems. As seems to be the usual case, the demons and the devils take the lion's share of the material, while the daemons, despite theoretically being among the Big Three of the fiendish races, are left to language in comparative obscurity; minor demon lords receive longer write-ups than in prior books, and Asmodeus' Queens of the Night get full write-ups for the first time, but among the deamons the Horsemen and the Horsemen alone receive any attention.

Perhaps the worst thing about the book however, is the artwork. While there are a few good, new pieces, usually marking the spaces between sections, most of the individual portraits of the archfiends are reprints from prior books or stunningly ugly (or in the case of the archdevil portraits from Bestiary 6, both).

I loved the prior Books of the Damned and wanted to like this book. In the end though, what little new material there cannot compensate for the book's faults, and the bad quality art makes it actively cringe-inducing to look on. Save yourself the money and buy something else.


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Luthorne wrote:

Well, the thing is that this book is primarily content for adventuring parties of good alignment...it's just focusing more on areas and creatures for those parties to adventure in/against. Which is probably the reason why we're less likely to get a hardcover about the celestial planes and such...good-aligned adventurers are less likely to adventure there or combat their inhabitants, though I'd still love to see it, but I manage my expectations there for the above reasons.

And, for what it's worth, it does say, "...for use by characters who both fight against and serve the forces of darkness." Not sure on the exact ratio, but still.

What I'm going to say is totally UNOFFICIAL and should be taken as a large amount of ASSUMPTIONS!

But

Judging by the content of the original trilogy, I'm close to sure that this book is far MORE about SERVING the darkness than fighting it. You probably (and probably only) should expect close to 75% of the book to be about option for characters serving these demigods and forces of evil. From feats and spells to prestige classes and equipment.

This will help us build foes for the PCs to fight against, and I'm again CLOSE to sure that this is how far we are going with the "fight against". Of course, we have the bestiary as well, with more enemies to battle against.

If you think to much about the serving and fighting aspects of the book, Book of the Damned is going to be really useful for all types of GMs, but only for evil aligned players. Chronicles of the Righteous would be useful for all sorts of Game Masters and also for the most common type of player: good aligned ones.

A Chronicles of the Righteous Hardcover with the same amount of contest would be a far more useful and requested book on all sorts of tables, I'm sure about it.


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Speaking as myself and not as a dragon fanatic...

I don't know about you all, but I would be whiling to sacrifice some books in the Campaign Setting line for books like Adventure's Guide and Book of the Damned. :O

I mean, in a single book we have a large amount of content covered; from lore and flavor to rules and options. All packed in one single book! A content that we are going to be able to use to design our own settings! Just imagining books like this one about the other major planes that can easily fit on anyone's setting - and by that I mean the Upper Planes, the Elemental Planes and the Realm of the Fey - It would be like a dream coming true.

I'm not really interested in or even concerned about the "fighting vs serving" aspects of this book... I'm FAR MORE interested in the options that will come within it. Rules for adventuring in these realms, feats, spells, equipment, class options, faith options, maybe even templates and racial traits! *¬*

I really liked and fully support the initiative of bringing the combination of FLAVOR and RULES to the RPG line, and I totally want to see more about the planes and faith in the line.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Gold Sovereign wrote:

What I'm going to say is totally UNOFFICIAL and should be taken as a large amount of ASSUMPTIONS!

But

Judging by the content of the original trilogy, I'm close to sure that this book is far MORE about SERVING the darkness than fighting it. You probably (and probably only) should expect close to 75% of the book to be about option for characters serving these demigods and forces of evil. From feats and spells to prestige classes and equipment.

This will help us build foes for the PCs to fight against, and I'm again CLOSE to sure that this is how far we are going with the "fight against". Of course, we have the bestiary as well, with more enemies to battle against.

If you think to much about the serving and fighting aspects of the book, Book of the Damned is going to be really useful for all types of GMs, but only for evil aligned players. Chronicles of the Righteous would be useful for all sorts of Game Masters and also for the most common type of player: good aligned ones.

A Chronicles of the Righteous Hardcover with the same amount of contest would be a far more useful and requested book on all sorts of tables, I'm sure about it.

Yeah, but a GM is going to generally make roughly a bazillion more evil cgaracters than a player will, so I still think evil material for GMs is probably seen as generally being more useful for the same reasons that evil monsters are seen as generally being more useful. Which is also probably why the original trilogy was a trilogy, and we only got a single book for Chronicle of the Righteous. I'm not certain how a hypothetical hardcover version of Chronicle of the Righteous would be useful for all sorts of GMs, though, can you expand on that? It seems like it would only be useful for GMs who are either running an evil (or at least morally ambivalent) game and want some more tools for the opposition, intend to run games in the celestial realms, or have a setting with a strong celestial presence in their setting...none of which are particularly common, given that - at least in my experience - it's more popular to adventure in the Abyss or Hell when it comes to outer plane adventures, and most GMs I've played with prefer to keep the celestial presence relatively low so that the PCs are the primary heroes...do your experiences there differ?

Edit: Though, of course, I would still love to see such a book, but the above are reasons I think it's less likely.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I wouldn't say that "good aligned ones" are the most common type of PC. 90% of PCs played in my games are Neutral, of which 80% are CN and NN. I'm yet to see a LG character at my table.


The next Paladin or cleric someone makes for one of our campaigns will be our first. :-)

Silver Crusade

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've had to take things in my own hands and play a flexi-sexual albino tiefling Paladin of Shelyn in my friends' Out of Abyss game.

Long white hair. A massive zwiehander called Maria whom he is in platonic love with. An even greater ego and an even greater libido.

Some people are yet to recover from my performance, which was part Sephiroth, part Sterling Mallory Archer and part Dr. Frank 'n' Furter, while all the time adhering to Shelyn's paladin code. As long as somebody was looking, that is.


The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Luthorne wrote:

Well, the thing is that this book is primarily content for adventuring parties of good alignment...it's just focusing more on areas and creatures for those parties to adventure in/against. Which is probably the reason why we're less likely to get a hardcover about the celestial planes and such...good-aligned adventurers are less likely to adventure there or combat their inhabitants, though I'd still love to see it, but I manage my expectations there for the above reasons.

And, for what it's worth, it does say, "...for use by characters who both fight against and serve the forces of darkness." Not sure on the exact ratio, but still.

What I'm going to say is totally UNOFFICIAL and should be taken as a large amount of ASSUMPTIONS!

But

Judging by the content of the original trilogy, I'm close to sure that this book is far MORE about SERVING the darkness than fighting it. You probably (and probably only) should expect close to 75% of the book to be about option for characters serving these demigods and forces of evil. From feats and spells to prestige classes and equipment.

This will help us build foes for the PCs to fight against, and I'm again CLOSE to sure that this is how far we are going with the "fight against". Of course, we have the bestiary as well, with more enemies to battle against.

If you think to much about the serving and fighting aspects of the book, Book of the Damned is going to be really useful for all types of GMs, but only for evil aligned players. Chronicles of the Righteous would be useful for all sorts of Game Masters and also for the most common type of player: good aligned ones.

A Chronicles of the Righteous Hardcover with the same amount of contest would be a far more useful and requested book on all sorts of tables, I'm sure about it.

75%? That doesn't at all jive with the previous books of the damned. IIRC we are getting at least a 2 page spread for every archdevil, Queen of Darkness, demon lord, and horseman, plus random stuff on the planes, other prominent groups, the book itself, etc. I'd expect "PC Options" to be closer in percentage to Inner Sea Gods or Inner Sea Races.


Set wrote:

I'd expect more small 'Books of the Damned' covering Kytons and perhaps other evil outsider groups, before a hardcover book of Empyreal Lords or whatnot.

Of the neutral outsiders, Psychopomps and Proteans *might* be ready for the softcover treatment (Inevitables and Axiomites, which could share a book, or Aeons, not so much), and I'd expect at least three softcovers and a couple of years to pass before a hardcover is even warranted.

Gosh, now I've jazzed myself up for a hypothetical 'Book of Balance: Proteans...' which is not even a gleam in the mailman's eye, at this point.

'Book of Balance' strikes me as a pretty planescape-y term- Unlike the Great Wheel of D&D, in the Great Beyond it's not in balance between anything, it came before them and doesn't represent a balance point but more... hm... 'Book of Creation: Proteans' maybe?


MMCJawa wrote:
75%? That doesn't at all jive with the previous books of the damned. IIRC we are getting at least a 2 page spread for every archdevil, Queen of Darkness, demon lord, and horseman, plus random stuff on the planes, other prominent groups, the book itself, etc. I'd expect "PC Options" to be closer in percentage to Inner Sea Gods or Inner Sea Races.

We are not talking about the FLAVOR X "PC OPTIONS" aspects of the book, we are talking about SERVING X FIGHTING.

For example - Dragon Slayer Handbook is completely different from Legacy of Dragons - the first is about fighting dragons and the second about using the power of dragons. Book of the Damned is 75% serving the evil demigods and I can't really remember any option about fighting them...

To me, Book of the Damned isn't about how to fight and defeat the demigods, it more about serving them.


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To me, Book of the Damned is about knowing them and their motivations. It gives you information on those who serve, and their goals.

It's not about how to fight them in the same sense a Slayer Handbook is, but it does give a lot of info on how they work as villains in plots.


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To me, this is the book I want so I can say "Feel the evil!" as I strike down my players. ;)


I'm not saying that Paizo shouldn't do a core manual book with 75% of the content based on serving or describing the fiendish planes of the multiverse and the vile powers that dwell there. What I am saying is I hope Paizo balances the scales and release hardcover core manuals covering the other two works of Tabris (aka Chronicle of the Righteous and the Concordance of Rivals).

Quote:
I wouldn't say that "good aligned ones" are the most common type of PC. 90% of PCs played in my games are Neutral, of which 80% are CN and NN. I'm yet to see a LG character at my table.

Oops, uh, if I implied that Paizo had a focus on good-aligned manuals then I slipped up. What I was trying to imply was that Paizo had a focus on producing content for adventuring parties that were interested in defeating the enemies of the adventure paths and modules they were in (usually this involves defeating foes that threaten the world of Golarion or a nation or kingdom in it in some such manner). They could be scoundrels with hearts of gold or selfish and roguish rakes with a soft spot for kittens but generally they are motivated to stop the bad guys (instead of wanting to serve them or join their cause).

Quote:
I wouldn't say that "good aligned ones" are the most common type of PC. 90% of PCs played in my games are Neutral, of which 80% are CN and NN. I'm yet to see a LG character at my table.

There's always that righteous crusader of Ragathiel you salivated for Gor dude. ;) :D

Quote:

To me, Book of the Damned is about knowing them and their motivations. It gives you information on those who serve, and their goals.

It's not about how to fight them in the same sense a Slayer Handbook is, but it does give a lot of info on how they work as villains in plots.

I can accept that we need that as well as needing more info on the three fiendish planes of the multiverse.

I just hope Paizo balances it out by giving us rich detail on all the other planes (and powers that dwell within them).

Quote:
75%? That doesn't at all jive with the previous books of the damned. IIRC we are getting at least a 2 page spread for every archdevil, Queen of Darkness, demon lord, and horseman, plus random stuff on the planes, other prominent groups, the book itself, etc. I'd expect "PC Options" to be closer in percentage to Inner Sea Gods or Inner Sea Races.

Will that include stats for them?


Will we be getting more information on Qlippoth lords like Yamasoth or his realm, Sekatar-Seraktis or more generally the Spiral Path?


Berselius wrote:
Will that include stats for them?

No. No stats for any demigod.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Berselius wrote:


There's always that righteous crusader of Ragathiel you salivated for Gor dude. ;) :D

Yeah, but he would be LE with Chaotic tendencies, so I'm eagerly awaiting Book of the Damned for material. Kill the heretic, eviscerate the unclean. Only through the purging flame of pyres full of witches shall the bliss of purity be achieved.

Dark Archive

The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Berselius wrote:
Will that include stats for them?
No. No stats for any demigod.

Aren't the stats for all Archdevils, Queens of Darkness and Horsemen to be in Bestiary 6(66)? ;-)

Bestiary 4 has Pazuzu, Kostchie and another one if i remember correctly.

Silver Crusade

Marco Massoudi wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Berselius wrote:
Will that include stats for them?
No. No stats for any demigod.

Aren't the stats for all Archdevils, Queens of Darkness and Horsemen to be in Bestiary 6(66)? ;-)

Bestiary 4 has Pazuzu, Kostchie and another one if i remember correctly.

Yes, but no stats in this book.

Dagon is the other Demon Lord you're thinking of.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Berselius wrote:
Oops, uh, if I implied that Paizo had a focus on good-aligned manuals then I slipped up. What I was trying to imply was that Paizo had a focus on producing content for adventuring parties that were interested in defeating the enemies of the adventure paths and modules they were in (usually this involves defeating foes that threaten the world of Golarion or a nation or kingdom in it in some such manner). They could be scoundrels with hearts of gold or selfish and roguish rakes with a soft spot for kittens but generally they are motivated to stop the bad guys (instead of wanting to serve them or join their cause).

Eh, rather than alignment, I think that's more about just making sure your PCs are willing to subordinate themselves to the overall story. If you decide to play a good-aligned character in, say, Rise of the Runelords, but they're only there to gather allies to fight an evil shadow demon back home and keep steadfastly resisting getting involved in the adventure path because that's not what their character would do, that's just as disruptive. Conversely, an evil character could have motivations that would allow them to play the adventure path without being disruptive...if the player is willing to make a character whose motivations align appropriately.

Worst case I remember in that regards wasn't an evil character, but someone who joined a Skulls & Shackles game...but somehow never found time to actually read the Player's Handbook for it...or anything about it...and didn't realize they were supposed to become a pirate. Not only did they absolutely refuse, they tried to burn down the boat we were on after getting kidnapped...because that was what their character would do, apparently.

Berselius wrote:
I just hope Paizo balances it out by giving us rich detail on all the other planes (and powers that dwell within them).

It would be nice, I just suspect they're considerably lower priority. I love planar material regardless, and would especially love some more information about Axis. There's just much more of a tradition of storming the gates of Hell than the gates of Heaven...well, maybe if you're playing in a Dragon Age setting, but that's pretty different all around...

Liberty's Edge

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I'm skeptical about this product. It seems like yet another "Enemy Book" type thing. Villain Codex -- enemy statblock book. Bestiary 6 -- enemy statblock book. Adventurers' Guide -- enemy organizations. Books of the Damned -- more enemies again. Maybe this one is more flavor than crunch, as opposed to something like B6, but nonetheless an enemy book. Seems like the focus for the RPG line is to provide material for DMs. I feel like material for players -- new feats, archetypes, classes, subsystems -- is only an afterthought now, and will get sprinkled in to DM-oriented enemy books where you have to comb for them.

Oh, for another APG/Ultimate Magic/Combat/Campaign/Equipment/Occut Adventures/ACG/Technology Guide. With those you felt like the players were catered to. Ever since Horror Adventures, I no longer really feel that anymore. The RPG line feels like it's abandoned the players and only throws them vague scraps in-between DM material.


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Do you really need more player material.

Can there be many classes left to build, and the last thing that's needed is more feats. :-)

Liberty's Edge

So what we're saying is that the player side of Pathfinder is finished? And from here on it'll only be a torrent of DM-oriented enemy books anymore?


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That's not what I said at all.

Liberty's Edge

Well you asked

Quote:
Do you really need more player material.

Why would you ask that if not to imply that I don't need more player material?


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captain yesterday wrote:

Do you really need more player material.

Can there be many classes left to build, and the last thing that's needed is more feats. :-)

Here's what I said.

Liberty's Edge

Correct. I see that a few posts back, too. It seems to me that you're saying that no more player material is needed and more player options aren't needed. In other words, the game is finished.


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Samy wrote:
So what we're saying is that the player side of Pathfinder is finished? And from here on it'll only be a torrent of DM-oriented enemy books anymore?

And yet this is what you drew from it.

First of all, I have absolutely no input into what books they release, or what they put in them. So drawing implications from anything I say on the subject is on you. :-)

Liberty's Edge

I don't really understand what point you're trying to make here. Are you, or are you not, saying that more player options aren't needed anymore?

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My understanding is that the Adventurer's Guide is a player focused book, but the crunch is themed around the different Golarion organizations.


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I've got two characters that are getting plenty of use out of this. One Rakshasa who really screwed up in the last reincarnation (now a Kitsune Mesmerist/Psychic), who will be glad to have obediences available along with any other Rakshasa-related material, and one NE character who has resigned herself to her afterlife destination, and would like to arrive there in a better position than "fresh soul-meat".

Rakshasas are pretty niche content, so I never expected to get anything PC-friendly for them apart from the bloodline and familiar, and Daemons are less popular than their LE and CE cousins, so getting this much for them was a pleasant surprise as well.


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Iammars wrote:
My understanding is that the Adventurer's Guide is a player focused book, but the crunch is themed around the different Golarion organizations.

In addition, I'd say that most are allies - Eagle Knights, Lantern Bearers - or, at worst, neutral - Aldori Swordlords, Mammoth Lords.

Hardly a tome of enemy organizations. ^_^


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Samy wrote:

I'm skeptical about this product. It seems like yet another "Enemy Book" type thing. Villain Codex -- enemy statblock book. Bestiary 6 -- enemy statblock book. Adventurers' Guide -- enemy organizations. Books of the Damned -- more enemies again. Maybe this one is more flavor than crunch, as opposed to something like B6, but nonetheless an enemy book. Seems like the focus for the RPG line is to provide material for DMs. I feel like material for players -- new feats, archetypes, classes, subsystems -- is only an afterthought now, and will get sprinkled in to DM-oriented enemy books where you have to comb for them.

Oh, for another APG/Ultimate Magic/Combat/Campaign/Equipment/Occut Adventures/ACG/Technology Guide. With those you felt like the players were catered to. Ever since Horror Adventures, I no longer really feel that anymore. The RPG line feels like it's abandoned the players and only throws them vague scraps in-between DM material.

The Adventurers book is definitely focused on PC material (To be honest more than I would prefer actually).

I wouldn't read too much into this year's line of releases. I suspect we are getting this line up of books more because of Starfinder than because of Pathfinder running out of material. Producing a rulebook for a relatively brand new rules system in a brand new genre, a rulebook topping 500 pages, is going to eat up a lot of the rule design team's time.

Large chunks of all three of the upcoming rules books are heavily based off of existing material, and also material that can probably be easily outsourced to freelancers. I would be pretty shocked if we didn't get a player option heavy Ultimate or Adventures line book next year, once this initial Starfinder hurdle is passed.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm not sure how one can consider a game that has an entire monthly product line churning out feats, archetypes, spells and items as "finished", but YMMV.

Liberty's Edge

Exactly, there's clearly much more room to do still. That's why I found Captain Yesterday's question so astonishing.


Davia D wrote:

To me, Book of the Damned is about knowing them and their motivations. It gives you information on those who serve, and their goals.

It's not about how to fight them in the same sense a Slayer Handbook is, but it does give a lot of info on how they work as villains in plots.

About the SERVING X FIGHTING aspects of the book:

Here is Mr. James Jacobs comment on this subject.

Exactly as this friend here said. So I think we can move on now... XD

Rysky wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Berselius wrote:
Will that include stats for them?
No. No stats for any demigod.

Aren't the stats for all Archdevils, Queens of Darkness and Horsemen to be in Bestiary 6(66)? ;-)

Bestiary 4 has Pazuzu, Kostchie and another one if i remember correctly.

Yes, but no stats in this book.

Dagon is the other Demon Lord you're thinking of.

IIRC, there's no stats for the Queens of the Night in B6. There's also no stats for the rest of the Demon Lords.


Samy wrote:

I'm skeptical about this product. It seems like yet another "Enemy Book" type thing. Villain Codex -- enemy statblock book. Bestiary 6 -- enemy statblock book. Adventurers' Guide -- enemy organizations. Books of the Damned -- more enemies again. Maybe this one is more flavor than crunch, as opposed to something like B6, but nonetheless an enemy book. Seems like the focus for the RPG line is to provide material for DMs. I feel like material for players -- new feats, archetypes, classes, subsystems -- is only an afterthought now, and will get sprinkled in to DM-oriented enemy books where you have to comb for them.

Oh, for another APG/Ultimate Magic/Combat/Campaign/Equipment/Occut Adventures/ACG/Technology Guide. With those you felt like the players were catered to. Ever since Horror Adventures, I no longer really feel that anymore. The RPG line feels like it's abandoned the players and only throws them vague scraps in-between DM material.

Various members of Paizo staff have said on multiple occasions, that their release paradigm was to focus on all the options you needed to play the game first and foremost, and then expand beyond those rules into various other non-essential supplements.

You'll note, CRB was released around 2009, APG in 2010 or so, and the first two Ultimate books(magic and combat) shortly thereafter.

Once those books were out of the way, and thus the *vast* majority of PC options were in the hands of the players, Paizo began releasing other, less essential books. Like the ARG and ultimate equipment.

There's currently 43 base classes, including alternate ones(like ninja) and the unchained variants.

19 'core' PrCs, ie, not the ones found in campaign specific books.

A SLEW of archetypes, feats, traits, etc.

Oh, and uh...

AN ENTIRE LINE DEVOTED SPECIFICALLY TO PLAYERS


Monkeygod wrote:
Samy wrote:
***

Various members of Paizo staff have said on multiple occasions, that their release paradigm was to focus on all the options you needed to play the game first and foremost, and then expand beyond those rules into various other non-essential supplements.

You'll note, CRB was released around 2009, APG in 2010 or so, and the first two Ultimate books(magic and combat) shortly thereafter.

Once those books were out of the way, and thus the *vast* majority of PC options were in the hands of the players, Paizo began releasing other, less essential books. Like the ARG and ultimate equipment.

There's currently 43 base classes, including alternate ones(like ninja) and the unchained variants.

19 'core' PrCs, ie, not the ones found in campaign specific books.

A SLEW of archetypes, feats, traits, etc.

Oh, and uh...

AN ENTIRE LINE DEVOTED SPECIFICALLY TO PLAYERS

Many of those have options more suited for NPCs than PCs, and options usable by both... the Player Companion lines isn't immune to giving GM/NPC only options/rules, Blood of the Night comes to mind, Blood of the Elements also got bashed for the "fluff" vs rules/mechanic.


captain yesterday wrote:

Do you really need more player material.

Can there be many classes left to build, and the last thing that's needed is more feats. :-)

Maybe, more player friendly material...


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Gorbacz wrote:
Berselius wrote:
There's always that righteous crusader of Ragathiel you salivated for Gor dude. ;) :D
Yeah, but he would be LE with Chaotic tendencies, so I'm eagerly awaiting Book of the Damned for material. Kill the heretic, eviscerate the unclean. Only through the purging flame of pyres full of witches shall the bliss of purity be achieved.

From what I'm aware Gor, only LG characters can become Crimson Templars and I don't think Ragathiel would tolerate a evil-aligned PC worshiping him much less grant him any abilities or spells.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hope there is more info on the Ladies of the Night.


DeciusNero wrote:
Hope there is more info on the Ladies of the Night.

There will be info, just no stat block (the "it has stats, now we can kill it" kind).

Dark Archive

9 people marked this as a favorite.

Queens of the Night. "Ladies of the night" are a whole other thing.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I was looking for info, not stats, so thats fine with me ^_^

Scholar of Damnation wrote:
Queens of the Night. "Ladies of the night" are a whole other thing.

Ahh, thanks, slipped my mind!


I only just realised this is a RPG-line book rather than a Campaign Setting hardcover.


I just know that I want it.


I hope the "how to become a demon" rules get expanded a bit to include something similar for daemons, and that the infernal contract rules from Hell's Rebels get a reprint and maybe expansion.


Plaus,

I kind of hope so too because that would be cool to do for daemons.


Daemons need something cool on par with the demon transformation or infernal contract roads to power. I suppose expanding use of soul trapping and using/destroying them to gain long term power would be most thematic but would have required the most alteration or expansion of the source material.


OR! It might require soul sucking out of fiends along with mortals.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

21 people marked this as a favorite.

One of the things that helps to keep demons, devils, and daemons from being interchangeable and indistinguishable from each other is the fact that devils use infernal contracts and demons are good at helping mortals destroy themselves (such as by destroying their humanity through the transformation of the body into something demonic).

Mixing that up across fiend types tends to blur boundaries and homogenize things in a way for fiends overall that I'm not fond of; these three races already have enough baseline similarities that diluting the things that make them different from each other is undesirable from my viewpoint.

Daemons have traditionally lacked much in the way of a "path to power" for mortals because unlike devils (who want to enslave mortals) and demons (who need mortals to live and sin so they can become demons in the afterlife), daemons only want to eat our souls, and they don't really particularly care if we're loyal or not or tough or not.

That's why infernal contracts are generally limited to devils, and the transformation ritual is traditionally something that's associated with demons, and the practice of soul trapping and trading and consuming is associated with daemons but doesn't particularly allow for a lot of daemon/mortal cross-cultural empowerment.

That said, the ritual detailed in Book of the Damned for fiendish apotheosis are presented in a way that they CAN be used for any type of fiend, not just demons. And the ritual detailed in Book of the Damned for soul trapping likewise just requires you to be evil, not specifically a minion of daemons. And while it remains easiest for devils to forge infernal contracts, any fiend could do one if they wish... just don't expect chaotic ones to honor said contract!


Thanks for that insight Mister Jacobs!

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