Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Book of the Damned (PFRPG)

***½( ) (based on 14 ratings)
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Book of the Damned (PFRPG)
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Abandon All Hope!

As long as mortals have feared what awaits them after death, the threat of damnation has loomed. Powerful fiendish lords rule the deepest, darkest reaches of the Great Beyond: archdevils, demon lords, the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and more. Such is the power of their evil that even angels cannot resist it—when one servant of Heaven cataloged all the evil in existence in the Book of the Damned, Heaven's judges doomed him to exile, appalled at what he had wrought. And now you hold those horrors in your hands!

Pathfinder RPG Book of the Damned explores the evil planes and their fiendish rulers as they exist in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Book of the Damned includes:

  • Descriptions for dozens of archdevils, demon lords, Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and other fiendish divinities, including the foul boons they grant to their most devoted followers.
  • Explorations of otherworldly fiendish realms, including the infernal reaches of Hell, the death-haunted expanses of Abaddon, and the nightmare depths of the Abyss.
  • Several brand-new monsters to fill out the ranks of all 11 of the fiendish races, from sinister classics such as demons and devils to new favorites like asuras and sahkils.
  • New blasphemous rituals, magic items, powerful artifacts, and spells to arm your villains with or for heroes to discover and defy.
  • Three fiend-focused prestige classes, ready to vex and terrify adventurers who dare stand against their plots.
  • An extensive collection of in-world excerpts from the sinister pages of the Book of the Damned itself.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-970-7

Content Advisory
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Book of the Damned deals with many dark and intense concepts. The topic of demons and devils is not for everyone, nor is exploration of the themes these fiends embody and the practices they demand of their worshipers. You should make sure that your game group is comfortable with the contents of this book before using them in play—if even one player is uncomfortable with including some of the concepts in here, you should set those portions of the book (or the entire book) aside and focus on other plots for your game. Buyers should beware that the content of this book is not appropriate for all ages, and parents especially are encouraged to review the book before buying it.

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription.

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***½( ) (based on 14 ratings)

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Mostly flavor for DMs, little use to players

*( )( )( )( )

I would not recommend this book to anyone except DMs who wanted a lot of deep flavor text on evil gods, evil planes and evil outsiders. The vast bulk of material is stuff that the DM can read in order to form a more coherent world view inside his head, but much of the material is such that it is not only useless to players mechanically, but even further, it is even difficult to convey to players flavor-wise.

Of the 280+ pages, about 120 (so almost half the book) is spent on detailing evil gods that were too small to receive full writeups in previous products. Gods like Baphomet, Dispater, Kostchtchie, Lamashtu, Mephistopheles, Moloch, Nocticula, Orcus, Pazuzu and Szuriel receive two-page writeups -- about 50 in total, covering about 100 pages. The other 20 pages in this section offer two-page writeups for 10 groupings like "Asura Ranas" and "Daemon Harbringers", giving brief detail to groupings gods even smaller than those who merited full two-pagers per individual. This section is essentially useless to players, but the DM can make some use of it for players by building cults that worship these guys and positioning them as enemies that have some of their background fleshed out thanks to this book. Having said that, spending almost half the book to detail the obscure gods of the guys who are going to be sword fodder for the players in three combat rounds? I think a hardcover slot could have been used for something much more useful.

The next 40 pages cover evil planes like Hell and Abyss. This, I think, is one of the more useful sections in the book, because at higher levels, players and campaigns are often going to be venturing into these environments, so getting more detail on them is very good stuff, and the DM can really use this as very concrete setting material for adventures. I actually wish that the art budget from the entire first section had been put into this section, because getting lots of cool images to use as visual aids to show players when they venture into a plane would have been extremely useful to me as a DM. Unfortunately, this is the smallest of the book's four sections, showing a big disconnect between what Paizo thinks we need and what I feel I need.

The third section is essentially the crunch section. Feats, domains, magic items, prestige classes and stuff like that. 95% of it is useless to players, and essentially exists just for the DM to build bad guy statblocks that the players are never going to see. There's a few occasional things that the players can use, like the Moon and Rivers subdomains, but by and large this section is useless unless you are the sort of DM who gets enjoyment out of building statblocks for your bad guys.

The fourth section is called a bestiary, but don't think it's like the Bestiary books simply presenting statblocks -- it has that too, but only about 14 of its 40 pages are statblocks for new monsters. The larger part of this section is flavor descriptions going over existing outsiders (like six pages for devils, six pages for daemons and six pages for demons) and giving them more flavor than existed previously. It's...not useless, I suppose. Some of the evil outsider flavor can be useful for DMs to flesh out encounters between evil outsiders and players. I guess this would be my second favorite section of the book, after the evil planes section.

Finally there's an appendix that presents excerpts from the in-world Book of the Damned in replica-like format as if you were reading the actual book. Kind of neat as a novelty but I didn't feel I got much use out of it.

So essentially there's five sections -- Gods, Planes, Crunch, Bestiary and Excerpts. Gods and Crunch are mostly only useful to build the bad guys of the campaign. Gods is more flavor side, Crunch is more crunch side. But I seriously question the decision to devote over half a hardcover to material that is mostly just useful to build the guys that might be dead in three rounds. My dislike for this decision is a big reason why I only give the book one star. Planes and Bestiary are more useful sections, but they are only about 80 of the book's 280+ pages. Bestiary is about as big as it needed to be -- I don't need any more flavor or statblocks that were presented there, so I wouldn't have wanted to see that section expanded further, but Planes could have and IMO should have been expanded far more. I could have used much, much more detail on the adventuring environments that I as DM could present to players.

Overall I just feel like this book was a big misstep and mis-gauge in what is useful. At least from my personal perspective -- other DMs may disagree. And it's miscategorized -- this book should have been in the DM-focused Campaign Setting line like Inner Sea Gods, to which it is sort of an evil sequel, rather than in the core line where, IMO, books should be more player-useful.

I should add one exception. This book could be really useful and worth its price if you are running an evil campaign. In that case, all the evil gods stuff and evil crunch stuff will actually be player-useful, which rockets the utility of this book upward. If you are running an evil campaign, I would actually consider this a four-star book.


Reprints and Bad Artwork

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The best thing about the new Book of the Damned that can truly be said to be original to it, is the completed list of obediences. The rest of the material consists of reprints from the prior Books of the Damned, or retcons to that material that create new problems. As seems to be the usual case, the demons and the devils take the lion's share of the material, while the daemons, despite theoretically being among the Big Three of the fiendish races, are left to language in comparative obscurity; minor demon lords receive longer write-ups than in prior books, and Asmodeus' Queens of the Night get full write-ups for the first time, but among the deamons the Horsemen and the Horsemen alone receive any attention.

Perhaps the worst thing about the book however, is the artwork. While there are a few good, new pieces, usually marking the spaces between sections, most of the individual portraits of the archfiends are reprints from prior books or stunningly ugly (or in the case of the archdevil portraits from Bestiary 6, both).

I loved the prior Books of the Damned and wanted to like this book. In the end though, what little new material there cannot compensate for the book's faults, and the bad quality art makes it actively cringe-inducing to look on. Save yourself the money and buy something else.


A Compelling Compilation of Corruption

****( )

As many other reviewers have said, this book is largely reprinted material from the "Book of the Damned" line of Campaign Setting books that came out a while back. As someone who has, and loves all of those three books, I have to say...

This book is great. I was a fan of the concept of the Book of the Damned, and it being compiled together like this fills me with dark joy. It does what it says as well, and the staff were up front about the reprinted material, so I enjoy it for what it is, which is a gathering up of their fiend-related material from the earlier books and some other far-flung sources, such as the devil contract mechanics from the Hell's Rebels adventure path and the more in-depth description of the Book of the Damned itself from Hell Unleashed. Having all of these things together in one place is handy, though it does appear some subjects, such as the demonic grafts, didn't make it into this book. Regardless, it's good for that reason alone.
Thankfully that isn't the only reason this book is good. It also expands on the fiendish boon system introduced in Lords of Chaos, handing out boons to the diabolical and daemonic demigods, and introduces, at least in passing, many of the more obscure evil entities in the setting. More interestingly to me, it does so in such a way that gives ample seeds and ideas on how to stat such demigods up, should we be so inclined. That coupled with more concrete rules on the various evil rituals also teased at in the earlier books and a mini-bestiary in the back help round out the book nicely.

This book isn't perfect, however. While it may not be of much concern to someone being exposed to this material for the first time, I personally found some of the changes and minor tweeks to the existing material a bit jarring. The diabolist prestige class was a notable example, with its new alignment restrictions and curtailing of spellcasting levels feeling more like a hurried effort to make it fit the formula of the other two fiend-inspired prestige classes than any effort to help modernize it. For one thing, I think that this means that the diabolist is no longer available for PFS play, for those who participate in that. Likewise, I would have liked to see a bit more space devoted to some fiends other than the three big 'D's. Some new fiendish archetypes would have been fun as well, and the missed opportunity bums me out just slightly.

Over all, this book is a pretty solid four stars. The reprinted material is very helpful for first-timers who haven't gotten the three previous Campaign Setting books, though I don't think I could recommend the hardcopy version to someone who already has them. It's got lots of info on evil deities and rituals, a few nifty items, a few new foes, and enough flavor to keep readers entertained through it's two-hundred ot pages. What it doesn't have is a ridiculous amount of new material, or a ton, or really any, PC-friendly options outside of a very evil campaign. But then again, it'd be a poor look out if a curse'd tome of vile lore helped look out for the good guys.


Good deal for lovers of demons, daemons, and devils.

****( )

It's nice to have the fiendish planes fleshed out in one handy book, and (if you're grabbing the PDF) for less than the cost of the much smaller source material books. There are a bunch of cool new things you can do, like become a true werewolf or a worm that walks!

The reason it's not five stars is because it's very heavily weighted towards (in order) demons, devils, and daemons. If you're interested in other fiends, there's not a lot of mechanics that work with them, and where they're specific, they're purposefully weaker.


"Remember kids, there's nothing EVIL about reading!!" - MermaidMan

*****

A great book for evil, even if it's not your thing.

Not as valuable if you already own the original three soft covers but still worth the price.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.


So, looking through the Malebranche, I noticed something interesting. Some of the names are familiar to me.

Scarlimonge, Barrbaccia, Caganazzo, Rubicante.

Those are the four fiends of the elements from FF4!

Now, I know those names originally came from the Divine Comedy (like all the Malebranche, hence why they all have Italian names), but I noticed Rubicante is similar to how he is in FF4. (His areas of concern are fire and honor, and in the game Rubicante was the fiend of fire, and he was an honorable opponent, always healing your party before you fought him).

Now, none of the other of the four fiend names corresponded to their namesakes, so I decided to look around at the rest of the Malbranche, and see who connected to what.

Ironically, The Pathfinder Scarlimonge seems to correspond to FF Cagnazzo (Water element, specializes in deception, since in FF Cagnazzo disguised himself as a human captain of the guard to lure the heroes into a trap." For the Earth fiend we have Draghignazzo, who connects because he's an earth fiend. But the wind fiend, Libicocco' background makes me think that she is a direct reference to FF Barbaccia, since it says she is the "Proud lady of winds", and she was once part of a team of four other fiends who tried to conquer other worlds. Which makes me think she was the survivor of FF4 while the other Malebranche were killed.

So Paizo staff, am I right in my suspicions here? Was FF some level of motivation for some of the writeups for the Malebranche?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I suspect FF did inspire these fiends in some way, since Wes Schneider was the one who designed the Maelbranche in the original Book of the Damned, and Wes Schneider is a certified FF fan.

That said, they're not direct ports, and the primary inspiration for them all (for us AND for Square, I suspect) remains Dante.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

3 people marked this as a favorite.
FallenDabus wrote:
Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

This is not only RAD, but is also fascinating. I'm pretty sure that 3D prints of creatures based on our art and design was never really anticipated by the community use license (maybe it was... dunno), but I guess it would still be covered by it?

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:


Yup, the void yai shogun knows and pays tribute openly. In the same way a priest of any faith would pay tithes or sacrifice to the gods.

As for how the oni daimyo gain their wealth and standing... it's by sheer virtue of the fact that they're immortal divinities who have been doing what they're doing in various ways for many many centuries, and have become very good at it. They function in the shadows and their "rule" is less of one akin to a king or queen on a throne and more like the god who inspires the king or queen.

Thank you Mr. Jacobs. I guess I was misinterpreting the daimyo as very powerful warlords, rather than as objects of religious devotion.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Creon Vizcarra wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


Yup, the void yai shogun knows and pays tribute openly. In the same way a priest of any faith would pay tithes or sacrifice to the gods.

As for how the oni daimyo gain their wealth and standing... it's by sheer virtue of the fact that they're immortal divinities who have been doing what they're doing in various ways for many many centuries, and have become very good at it. They function in the shadows and their "rule" is less of one akin to a king or queen on a throne and more like the god who inspires the king or queen.

Thank you Mr. Jacobs. I guess I was misinterpreting the daimyo as very powerful warlords, rather than as objects of religious devotion.

Ah, yah.

In this case, the "daimyo" in "Oni Daimyo" is serving the same role as the word "lord" in "demon lord" or "usher" in "Psychopomp usher."

"Oni Daimyo" is just the name of the pantheon of oni divinities.


All I know is the Jester Prince is still the best Maelbranche for me. ;)

Contributor

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James Jacobs wrote:
FallenDabus wrote:
Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.
This is not only RAD, but is also fascinating. I'm pretty sure that 3D prints of creatures based on our art and design was never really anticipated by the community use license (maybe it was... dunno), but I guess it would still be covered by it?

FallenDabus is seriously cool! They also made a 3D printable model of my home game's version of Tegresin the Laughing Fiend (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2561365).

I highly recommend their Planescape Bestiary blog!


Alex Smith 908 wrote:
If any of the developers are willing to answer I've got a question. Was Kaikyton directly inspired by the Junji Ito manga Army of One?

Gotta wonder what The Spiral would be, Genus Loci? Plus that weird guy who gets stuck with the electric cat *KRAKAZOOM!*

Junji has also done a normal comic detailing his life with a house cat. Same creepy art but it is kinda sweet.


MannyGoblin wrote:
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
If any of the developers are willing to answer I've got a question. Was Kaikyton directly inspired by the Junji Ito manga Army of One?

Gotta wonder what The Sprial would be, Genus Loci? Plus that weird guy who gets stuck with the electric cat *KRAKAZOOM!*

Junji has also done a normal comic detailing his life with a house cat. Same creepy art but it is kinda sweet.

Yeah, Junji Ito apparently reacts to cute kitties the same way he reacts to lovecraftian horrors. Its kind of sweet really.


CrinosG wrote:
MannyGoblin wrote:
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
If any of the developers are willing to answer I've got a question. Was Kaikyton directly inspired by the Junji Ito manga Army of One?

Gotta wonder what The Sprial would be, Genus Loci? Plus that weird guy who gets stuck with the electric cat *KRAKAZOOM!*

Junji has also done a normal comic detailing his life with a house cat. Same creepy art but it is kinda sweet.

Yeah, Junji Ito apparently reacts to cute kitties the same way he reacts to lovecraftian horrors. Its kind of sweet really.

I think he has also done work for Pokemon!


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FallenDabus wrote:
Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.

What does it say that at first glance, I read this as Pepsidaemon?

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Readerbreeder wrote:
FallenDabus wrote:
Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.
What does it say that at first glance, I read this as Pepsidaemon?

You are aware of how evil that drink is.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Readerbreeder wrote:
FallenDabus wrote:
Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.
What does it say that at first glance, I read this as Pepsidaemon?

Introducing the newest Daemon Harbinger: Arcecola, Daemon Harbinger of cheapness, being a poor host, and store brand generic products.

His Obedience is you have to buy generic store brand Soda and chips and serve it at a party and then deny that you got generic brand when you get called on it. +4 bonus to saves vs. Poison.

Charon:..... WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF IDEAS SHUT UP.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Readerbreeder wrote:
FallenDabus wrote:
Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.
What does it say that at first glance, I read this as Pepsidaemon?
You are aware of how evil that drink is.

Eh, I'm on team pepsi. Maybe its just because drinks have real sugar over here .-.


I finally got a physical copy of the book and I love it. So very many great things inside.

I am very amused by that new art of Asmodeus. I wonder if he looks like that when he goes out to make diabolic contracts; most people would be quicker to cut a deal with someone who looks dumb enough to be tricked rather than a coldly masterful prince of darkness, after all.

And after they're dead and in the Pit, they can spend the rest of eternity learning just how foolish they were.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So I'm having this conversation with someone who is annoyed at Szuriel article in the book. Since 1) they feel Szuriel feeling gratitude for Lamashtu is out of character 2) it doesn't even make sense because Lamashtu killed Roshmolem the Steel Weaver and not Ortaro of the Ten Thousand Screams her really badass predessor she killed herself, so why would she lack antipathy for Lamashtu because she killed her predecessor's predecessor? Especially since Ortaro was much worse opponent than Roshmolem(who is considered stain upon reputation of Horsemen)?

So can anyone give their thoughts on the matter whether this is continuity error or retcon, since this conversation is about whether this is retcon or not? xD I feel like they raised pretty good point of that seeming really weird things to say.

(they in general feel like Daemons have been nerfed to make them feel weaker than before, but I'm not touching that argument)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:

So I'm having this conversation with someone who is annoyed at Szuriel article in the book. Since 1) they feel Szuriel feeling gratitude for Lamashtu is out of character 2) it doesn't even make sense because Lamashtu killed Roshmolem the Steel Weaver and not Ortaro of the Ten Thousand Screams her really badass predessor she killed herself, so why would she lack antipathy for Lamashtu because she killed her predecessor's predecessor? Especially since Ortaro was much worse opponent than Roshmolem(who is considered stain upon reputation of Horsemen)?

So can anyone give their thoughts on the matter whether this is continuity error or retcon, since this conversation is about whether this is retcon or not? xD I feel like they raised pretty good point of that seeming really weird things to say.

(they in general feel like Daemons have been nerfed to make them feel weaker than before, but I'm not touching that argument)

No error or Retcon.

1) her article in Rasputin Must Die mentions that Lamashtu holds a grudge against her, but it doesn’t mention anything from Szuriel’s POV.

2) Yes, Lamashtu killed Roshmolem which left an opening for a long time. A time she spent planning and consolidating her power until Ortaro took power whom she promptly killed. If she hadn’t taken out Roshmolem there wouldn’t have been the power vacuum.

And Roshmolem’s “stain” has to do with him divulging the secrets of creating demons to Lamashtu after she tortured him. That “weakness” is what the Horseman despise, his battle prowess is not even brought up.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Umm, but it doesn't really make sense for Szuriel not hate Lamashtu if Lamashtu considers her one of her enemies. Especially since Szuriel hates everyone. Like, it just feels like writer of Szuriel article wasn't shown all of related material to the article .-.

And that power vacuum reasoning feels bit of a stretch as reason to feel gratitude.


Stretch maybe but not a leap over a mountain.

As for Szuriel not hating Lamashtu, I figure it's more because Szuriel figures she can kill a god. Eventually.


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Nah, power vaccuum makes sense - without Lamashtu's invasion, Szuriel would probably still be a harbinger.

Lamashtu's also the goddess of numerous super prolific yet short-lived cannon fodder races.

Lamashtu's one of the main engines in the multiverse that drives war forward.

If anything, Szuriel's job would conceivably be a lot harder without Lamashtu.

Now, I can see Lamashtu not liking any daemons at all in the slightest (Lamashtu is essentially a corrupted goddess of life, after all), but the daemons of Abaddon being well aware of how they benefit for her efforts.

Hell, goblins are usually neutral evil (and I suspect usually not religious enough to actually qualify for the Abyssal divine realms of Lamashtu or the Barghest Hero Gods). Gobbos in of themselves probably make up a giant chunk of the Hunted (and thus future daemons).

Isn't that a screwed up thing? Abaddon's quite possibly dependent on Lamashtu's leftovers to keep itself functioning.

Edit: And now I'm thinking about the Gobbo stretches of Abaddon, where the Hunted gather in packs, sing absurd songs, and try to gang up on, kill, and eat anyone and anything that enters the region, with no regard to their own relative lack of actual power.


Hell, goblins are usually neutral evil (and I suspect usually not religious enough to actually qualify for the Abyssal divine realms of Lamashtu or the Barghest Hero Gods). Gobbos in of themselves probably make up a giant chunk of the Hunted (and thus future daemons).

Isn't that a screwed up thing? Abaddon's quite possibly dependent on Lamashtu's leftovers to keep itself functioning.

Edit: And now I'm thinking about the Gobbo stretches of Abaddon, where the Hunted gather in packs, sing absurd songs, and try to gang up on, kill, and eat anyone and anything that enters the region, with no regard to their own relative lack of actual power.

And that's why we love the little goons. Nothing gets them down for long.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Umm, but it doesn't really make sense for Szuriel to not hate Lamashtu considering Lamashtu hates her and Szuriel hates EVERYONE. Ye aren't addressing that

Sovereign Court

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Well, Szuriel hates everyone except Lamashtu. Lamashtu hating Szuriel hardly has any effect on how Szuriel feels.

Silver Crusade

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KingOfAnything wrote:
Well, Szuriel hates everyone except Lamashtu. Lamashtu hating Szuriel hardly has any effect on how Szuriel feels.

Agreed, just because some hates you doesn’t automatically make you hate them back, especially if you know that doing so makes them hate you even more, which I’m sure Szuriel is aware of.

Liberty's Edge

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Szuriel not hating Lamashtu does not mean Szuriel will not destroy Lamashtu if she has the opportunity

Just that Szuriel will target other deities first because she hates their guts and they have no redeeming value while Szuriel feels she gained much from Lamashtu's actions. A kind of professional courtesy if you will

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ye guys aren't providing good reason there. I mean, why would Lamashtu creating the power vacuum result in Szuriel not hating Lamashtu? That isn't any kind of personal favor towards her so thats really weak reasoning. Sure, it technically doesn't contradict anything previously stated, but its weird and doesn't make much of sense.

Silver Crusade

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...?

I'd say you have been given plenty of good reasons, whereas you aren't providing one. Your whole argument hinges on "she hates me so I need to hate her back just as equally, just because".

Lamashtu created the power vacuum that allowed her to ascend to Horseman status. So Szuriel feels a kind of backhanded gratitude towards Lamashtu, which probably infuriates her further. Szuriel doesn't hate Lamashtu, but nowhere does it say she likes her either.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

*shrugs* I'm not sure why you think I'm trying to convince you guys of anything(I was asking you guys to clarify how this new information makes consistent sense with Szuriel's previous portrayal, not asking to be told "Well it hasn't been previously said she hates Lamashtu specifically", that doesn't really address source of my confusion), but I don't want to continue this conversation anymore because I'm starting to feel ganged upped here for expressing my confusion.

Silver Crusade

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You stated, and repeatedly stated, an odd stance that others such as myself disagree with. Sorry you feel ganged up on and that we weren't able to clear up your confusion, but at this point we've given multiple reasons and explanations.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Professional courtesy is the best explanation.

Or from a different view, the player doesn't hate the pawn.


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If anything, the Four Horseman's relationship with Lamashtu is probably pretty complicated.

As the Demon Queen of the Abyss, she is essentially the daemons' greatest creation.

The fact that she invaded Abaddon and largely whupped her "parents" just emphasizes that the daemons successfully created an engine of destruction that exceeded them.

Lamashtu's endless drive to fill the multiverse with her brood also simultaneously advances the work of all four Horsemen as collateral damage, as her servitor races endlessly spread famine, disease, war, and death.

Yet the Horsemen cannot overlook that as long as Lamashtu exists, they can never actually complete their task of annihilation.

It's like if Sisyphus, while just pushing his boulder along, got the idea to raise a hill in his route - some extra effort to reach the top, yet easy rolling after cresting - and accidentally raised Gangkhar Puensum instead.


I think Zhangar hit the nail on the head.

Or the Horsemen of War slices off heads. Either works.


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I really do enjoy the occult rituals with this book. Great new options for summoning fiends, turning oneself into a fiend, and trapping souls for trading with fiends. And they all have suitably nasty effects if you blow the rituals. I consider the latter to be the best aspect of the ritual system as well as a great explanation for why in a magical world they aren't well known. When doing that 'simple' ritual has the chance you'll be torn limb from limb by an enraged demon or devil, word gets around.

The various fiendish boons are great too, especially the ones that transform their possessor. I do wonder if the one boon Baphomet offers, giving his servitor a fiendish aurochs, might be changed to granting a man-eating aurochs with the template from the Worldwound AP. It is described there as something especially sacred to Baphomet's faith, and as something he'd give to loyal worshipers.


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I'm with you Eric. The occult rituals (especially now) are what sells me on doing MORE stuff with fiends for those NPCs that might not be able to cast Gate, but could theoretically find ways to offer sacrifices for fiends.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Todd Stewart wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
FallenDabus wrote:
Want to 3D Print a Sepsidaemon? Here you go! I take payment in souls and likes.
This is not only RAD, but is also fascinating. I'm pretty sure that 3D prints of creatures based on our art and design was never really anticipated by the community use license (maybe it was... dunno), but I guess it would still be covered by it?

FallenDabus is seriously cool! They also made a 3D printable model of my home game's version of Tegresin the Laughing Fiend (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2561365).

I highly recommend their Planescape Bestiary blog!

And with those two comments my day been made!

Anyhow, you're absolutely right James, it is a grey zone that is really unclear for RPGs right now. I doubt anyone 10 to 15 years ago realized how much 3D printing was going to take off, and I feel like won't really see its full impact until the price drops in the next 5 years to become truly affordable. I feel like we are sitting right on the bubble. Anyhow, I spent tons of time trying to figure out if I was covered or not before posting things to Thingiverse, and I'm pretty sure I've covered by the Community License, but if anyone at Paizo feels otherwise (or if the terms change in the future and I don't notice), I'm happy to pull my stuff down. I do it mostly for my own enjoyment of modelling, posting is really just an extra shot of positivity for my work when people like it. I truly doubt anyone other than myself has printed any of the models I've made, so its not like anyone would be losing out.

And hey, if I can be the conversation starter for Paizo developing a 3D printing policy for community use (or even better, a strategy/policy for selling official STL files!), I'm cool with that.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

So, from the better late than never file-

The Tyrant Lizard King asked what my favorite piece of new art in this book is.

There were many strong contenders- the Four Horsemen's splash opening to Chapter 1, the Nikaramsa Asura, Nualia's throne shot to lead into Chapter 3, Inma on page 127, Folca's creepy, creepy viasge, Nurgal...

But in the end, I think the winner for me (of art that as far I know is new to this book)?

Mahathallah, on page 69. It's a gorgeous rendering of that sad, broken, evil, deadly former Psychopomp.

Dark Archive

Is there a reason why none of the Kyton Demagouges offer the kyton subdomain, or just an oversight?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Creon Vizcarra wrote:
Is there a reason why none of the Kyton Demagouges offer the kyton subdomain, or just an oversight?

Because there wasn't room to reprint the Kyton subdomain, and we would have had to do so, and then we would have had to create domains for all the other fiend races so the rakshasas and oni and sahkils and so on would also all have their own subdomains.

And since there was no room in the book to drop in subdomains, we couldn't draw upon them.

And giving demigods domains that aren't just the name of their race is, to me, more interesting. I kinda wish we didn't "use up" a precious domain slot on Demon or Devil for demon lords and archdevils, for example. It certainly made choosing domains for a lot of them VERY difficult, since they only get four of them.

For Pazuzu, for example... his four subdomains probably should have been Cloud, Deception, Feather, and Wind, but one of those had to be Demon... so xxx never made the cut. Which is a shame, considering the fact that he's in charge of "winged creatures" and Feather's a domain that doesn't show up often.

I think the BEST solution would be that the outsider race domians would be things you unlock access to via a feat or archetype or something like that—an option for your deity, rather than one of the four assumptions.

That all said, granting the Kyton Demagouges the ability to grant access to the kyton subdomain certainly won't break anything, and it does make sense. So if you wanna do it in your home games, go for it. I would!

Dark Archive

Thanks for the answer Mr. Jacobs. Book of the Damned helped me make some adjustments to an important deity in my 10+ year old homebrew setting; I decided to move him from being an Infernal Duke to being a Kyton Demagogue, which is what prompted the question.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dropped a review. Sorry to say, I had to give this book only one star.

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