CBDunkerson |
I might have missed it but are there any psychic casting based prestige classes or archetypes in this book? Any organisations with a psychic theme to them? Any Vudrani organisations?
Hmmm. None of the ten listed organizations have any particular psychic or Vudrani focus... but the writeup says we are getting 18 total.
That said, I can't think of any significant psychic or Vudrani organizations which have been introduced thus far. So, unless we get a completely new group, probably not too likely.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I might have missed it but are there any psychic casting based prestige classes or archetypes in this book? Any organisations with a psychic theme to them? Any Vudrani organisations?
Seems like this book has a good mix of crunch and flavour. :)
We haven't released that level of detail yet on the book's contents, but there are some options in here for classes from Occult Adventures, yes.
Lemartes |
Lemartes wrote:We haven't released that level of detail yet on the book's contents, but there are some options in here for classes from Occult Adventures, yes.I might have missed it but are there any psychic casting based prestige classes or archetypes in this book? Any organisations with a psychic theme to them? Any Vudrani organisations?
Seems like this book has a good mix of crunch and flavour. :)
Cool. Thanks. :)
Marco Massoudi |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What have we here?
Courtesy of Wayfinder 16. Go get it, it's free! ^_^
Thanks for showing us the cover, it looks much better than the placeholder art (from Jade Regent #1 i think). :-)
Monkeygod |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If the prestige classes are anywhere near the same level of quality as Paths of the Righteous, this'll be a must buy.
Obviously, we won't know till we get the book, but considering James Jacobs was a developer(lead? lone?) on Paths, and on this book, I would like to think they'll be close to the level of awesome found in PotR :)
Kalindlara Contributor |
Bellona |
I have been waiting a LOOOonnnggggg time for more information on the Cypher Mages.....I wonder if they are revising the PrC ???
Well, each organization is getting "at least one prestige class". So... either revising the old one from Second Darkness, getting a brand new one, or maybe both.
As far as I know, there only ever was the one Cyphermage prestige class (found in Inner Sea Magic). And that's already Pathfinder content (as opposed to 3.5).
The two Cyphermage-related feats (originally in the Second Darkness Player's Guide) were updated to PF in the Inner Sea World Guide.
On the other hand, only one of the four Cyphermage-related spells in the SD PG have been updated to PF (Codespeak, found in Ultimate Intrigue).
So yeah, more information on the Cyphermages would not be amiss ...
tsuruki |
Damn, a step backwards in my opinion.
There are still many way's to fight that are not covered by the rules and there are so many rules that have been a little broken since the Core rulebook was released. The only characters that fight with one handed weapons, for example, are the ones who can cheeze them with some kind of special attack (magus, Swashbucklers). I'dd love to see some oe-handed fighting feats. Also, Two-weapon-fightting still needs help.
Isnt it time for an updated core rulebook?
Im not saying pathfinder 2, nor am I saying Core-rulebook 2. Im saying a new Core rulebook for this very same system, with some new generalized feats and some class updates.
It seems we've reached the point of exhaustion for new crunch, therefor the pathfinder crunch book line is delving deeper and deeper into Pathfinder's campaign setting, which is a big turnoff for me.
Rysky |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |
The only characters that fight with one handed weapons, for example, are the ones who can cheeze them with some kind of special attack (magus, Swashbucklers).... I wouldn't call the classes' main abilities "cheeze". Fighting one-handed is their thing. Fighting styles for other characters that only want to use a one-handed weapon? Sure. But the classes that have it as their shtick aren't cheezing it simply because they exist.
It seems we've reached the point of exhaustion for new crunch,
You are very mistaken.
QuidEst |
The only characters that fight with one handed weapons, for example, are the ones who can cheeze them with some kind of special attack (magus, Swashbucklers).
There's also sword-and-board for players who like high ACs more than high damage. That's being encouraged for Occultist by a new option from Psychic Anthology. Also, some classes only get martial proficiencies with one-handed weapons (Bard, Mesmerist, and Investigator). One-handed is the best choice for finesse builds, since there are several finessable martial one-handed weapons with better damage than light weapons.
I'dd love to see some oe-handed fighting feats.
My favorite is Possessed Hand, which is one-and-a-half feats with some perks rolled in, so long as you're using a one-handed weapon at most.
Also, Two-weapon-fightting still needs help.
The way to help TWF is generally class features, not more feats. It's feat intensive, after all. Anything that adds lots of damage on an attack (sneak attack, hidden strike) or removes the feat burden (flurry of blows) benefits it. If you're interested in more feat chains, though, Hand's Autonomy can further reduce TWF penalties and provide lots of utility benefits.
Isnt it time for an updated core rulebook?
Im not saying pathfinder 2, nor am I saying Core-rulebook 2. Im saying a new Core rulebook for this very same system, with some new generalized feats and some class updates.
Not really feasible to do that way. There's a decade of material based on the current Core Rulebook, and changing that breaks everything. It would need to be a separate book just to avoid breaking all the references. Once you get that hurdle out of the way, it's starting to sound a lot like either the Pathfinder Unchained book or the Advanced Class Guide.
It seems we've reached the point of exhaustion for new crunch, therefor the pathfinder crunch book line is delving deeper and deeper into Pathfinder's campaign setting, which is a big turnoff for me.
Pathfinder Player's Companion just came out with an Occultist who uses ostentatious displays of wealth for arcane power (probably the best dedicated 6/9 caster), a cool new Spiritualist phantom and a nice melee casting archetype, tons of new Kineticist options, and some major improvements on Mesmerist's playstyle. Upcoming, we've got more rules for underwater games and an Adventurer's Armory 2. And if you want a blank slate, you can always see if you like Starfinder. Maybe backport some of the rules, race, or class changes you like.
David knott 242 |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It seems we've reached the point of exhaustion for new crunch.
No, we've only reached a point of exhaustion for on-line reference sites to keep up with the new content. I am hoping that they will all eventually catch up.
Fourshadow |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I for one wouldn't mind a little more love for the Blackfire Adepts as I have a character who was a former member and needs to be fleshed out more.
Ah! Now we are back to the Product Discussion thread! I would like to see more on the resistance to these Adepts: the Riftwardens! I would also like to know if they are working on the problem of the Worldwound. It seems to be their jurisdiction...
thecursor |
thecursor wrote:Ah! Now we are back to the Product Discussion thread! I would like to see more on the resistance to these Adepts: the Riftwardens! I would also like to know if they are working on the problem of the Worldwound. It seems to be their jurisdiction...I for one wouldn't mind a little more love for the Blackfire Adepts as I have a character who was a former member and needs to be fleshed out more.
Actually a little more fleshing out of the whole "Wizads who have opposite goals" part of that whole conflict would suit me fine. Are the Riftwardens picking and choosing their battles or are the knee deep in the Worldwound? Are the Blackfire Adepts more interested in just acquiring power or is there a grand plan? Is the Worldwound an obstacle to the Blackfire Society or is it all part of the plan? I can imagine that a giant hole in the universe that they don't control is a giant pain in the ass for the Blackfire Adepts
Milo v3 |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Pathfinder Player's Companion just came out with an Occultist who uses ostentatious displays of wealth for arcane power (probably the best dedicated 6/9 caster), a cool new Spiritualist phantom and a nice melee casting archetype, tons of new Kineticist options, and some major improvements on Mesmerist's playstyle. Upcoming, we've got more rules for underwater games and an Adventurer's Armory 2.
Thing is, that just says to me that Paizo has gotten confused when it comes to the lines. Because those things make a lot more sense to be in RPG-line books, and this golarion stuff makes a lot more sense to be in Campaign setting books and player companions.
Rysky |
QuidEst wrote:Pathfinder Player's Companion just came out with an Occultist who uses ostentatious displays of wealth for arcane power (probably the best dedicated 6/9 caster), a cool new Spiritualist phantom and a nice melee casting archetype, tons of new Kineticist options, and some major improvements on Mesmerist's playstyle. Upcoming, we've got more rules for underwater games and an Adventurer's Armory 2.Thing is, that just says to me that Paizo has gotten confused when it comes to the lines. Because those things make a lot more sense to be in RPG-line books, and this golarion stuff makes a lot more sense to be in Campaign setting books and player companions.
Player's Companion and Campiagn Setting are two different lines.
Plausible Pseudonym |
He's saying player companions should be Golarion-centric player options that are flavored to that world, not generic class improvements like the Silksworn and Mesmerist stare/trick feats which would be great to share with the wider ecosystem via the RPG line. Both would have fit in nicely in Ultimate Intrigue and been a lot better than feats letting you ask for the salt so politely at the dinner table that they might also give you the pepper if your Diplomacy is high enough.
Urath DM |
The Player Conpanion line is much more crunch-heavy than the Campaign Setting line - so they will always have more opportunity for "generic" content as part of their overall offering. While the Player Companions are intended to provide Golarion-appropriate options for players, and sometimes even Golarion-specific ones, they are not limited to that.
Some crunch requires supporting generic crunch first, and if that's not in the RPG line, then it needs to be in the Player Companion with the stuff it is there to support.
Several Player Companions do this.. Heroes of the Wild, Black Markets, Undead Slayers' Handbook, Demon Hunters'... all have rules content that could be in the RPG line.
On-Topic, I look forward to seeing how the Cyphermages compare to my homebrew version of the organization. I am also curious to see how the Lantern Bearers compare to the version in the Faction Guide. I was disappointed that the "Influencing Organizations" rules in Ultimate Intrigue were so different from the rules in the Faction Guide, Inner Sea Combat, Inner Sea Magic, and Occult Mysteries (Fame/Prestige based like PFS, but for non-PFS games).
Graeme Lewis |
Hmm... 18 factions. Probably nothing on the Technic League. I mean, on the one hand, it makes sense since the TL would probably necessitate reprinting and/or expanding on the Technology Guide, but on the other, I do kinda want to learn more about them. Plus, I mean, there are some organizations of bad dudes here.
But they are kinda local and not exactly major players in a lot of other regions.
MadScientistWorking |
He's saying player companions should be Golarion-centric player options that are flavored to that world, not generic class improvements like the Silksworn and Mesmerist stare/trick feats which would be great to share with the wider ecosystem via the RPG line. Both would have fit in nicely in Ultimate Intrigue and been a lot better than feats letting you ask for the salt so politely at the dinner table that they might also give you the pepper if your Diplomacy is high enough.
The problem is that there all ready is a line of books that introduce Golarion-centric player options. Its the Campaign Setting Line. Those books usually when relevant introduces more mechanics into the game than a lot of Player Companions. In fact the Golarion-Centric player option book for Ultimate Intrigue exists and its so much better than the Player Companion equivalent.
The Technic League would have the least utility for adapting to a non-Golarion setting, which is another big reason we won't see it.
Its not like they didn't adapt the concepts that helped form the Technic League from a completely different setting.
John Kretzer |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
So anyway....
(quietly avoids this stupid debate about setting vs generic)
Anyone wanna spit ball what other organizations might be covered in this book? Also, how crazy would it be if PFS approved an Apsis Archetype for play LOL?
Still hoping for the Wasp Queens...but I kinda doubt they will make it in.
Graeme Lewis |
Yeah, since the Technic League is basically "Evil psychotic dumbasses find crashed spaceship" you could put them in any setting where you have a crashed spaceship.
Or "Power-hungry brutes meddling with concepts beyond their comprehension", which can go into any setting that plays with Clarke's Third Law a bit. Or "Secret society attempting to withhold wonders the like of which the world has never seen" which... I mean, is there a setting where that particular group wouldn't work? Just because the Technic League isn't especially great at it doesn't mean you couldn't have a more competent (or Lawful or even Good) version of them dedicated to keeping technology a secret (Lawful Evil TL would be all about controlling it, like the current TL is, but with the addition of a better-managed hierarchy, while I could see a Neutral Good TL being more interested in sequestering technology away until it's able to be used by everyone in society, keeping it secret so that some dumbass warlord doesn't conquer half the world with an army of laser-wielding murderbots).
Plausible Pseudonym |
Rysky wrote:Yeah, since the Technic League is basically "Evil psychotic dumbasses find crashed spaceship" you could put them in any setting where you have a crashed spaceship.Or "Power-hungry brutes meddling with concepts beyond their comprehension", which can go into any setting that plays with Clarke's Third Law a bit. Or "Secret society attempting to withhold wonders the like of which the world has never seen" which... I mean, is there a setting where that particular group wouldn't work?
One without a very specific form of future tech that follows the rules of Paizo's tech guide. Which seems like a large majority of settings. This is a rules line book, and those are the least generalizable rules.
Rysky |
Graeme Lewis wrote:One without a very specific form of future tech that follows the rules of Paizo's tech guide. Which seems like a large majority of settings. This is a rules line book, and those are the least generalizable rules.Rysky wrote:Yeah, since the Technic League is basically "Evil psychotic dumbasses find crashed spaceship" you could put them in any setting where you have a crashed spaceship.Or "Power-hungry brutes meddling with concepts beyond their comprehension", which can go into any setting that plays with Clarke's Third Law a bit. Or "Secret society attempting to withhold wonders the like of which the world has never seen" which... I mean, is there a setting where that particular group wouldn't work?
They can use the tech in that book, they don't have to though. It's just equipment.
Set |
The Technic League, Aspis Consortium and Pathfinder Societies are just three edges of the same blade, organizations dedicated to uncovering sources of knowledge and power and keeping them to themselves.
The Technic League is just a highly specialized organization, dedicated to one specific source of knowledge and power, confined to one region, while the Pathfinder Society and Aspis Consortium are more trans-national and open in their 'gather and hoard all the things' approach.
They *might* have different end-goals, as well, but nobody knows what the Decemvirate actually wants, so it's not particularly relevant to the story whether they are benevolent 'protect the people from bad knowledge' sorts or acquisitive power seekers who just use the Pathfinders to bring them more lost lore and magic bling. As long as the missions get done, it really doesn't matter whether or not you're bringing the lore and bling back to your superiors in the League, Society or Consortium (or Whispering Way, for that matter). You'll never find out what happened to it, in any event.
They're the tabletop equivalent of an MMO's 'quest NPCs,' there to point the PCs at adventure, and take anything potentially unbalancing or game-wrecking off their hands at the end.
Plausible Pseudonym |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:They can use the tech in that book, they don't have to though. It's just equipment.Graeme Lewis wrote:One without a very specific form of future tech that follows the rules of Paizo's tech guide. Which seems like a large majority of settings. This is a rules line book, and those are the least generalizable rules.Rysky wrote:Yeah, since the Technic League is basically "Evil psychotic dumbasses find crashed spaceship" you could put them in any setting where you have a crashed spaceship.Or "Power-hungry brutes meddling with concepts beyond their comprehension", which can go into any setting that plays with Clarke's Third Law a bit. Or "Secret society attempting to withhold wonders the like of which the world has never seen" which... I mean, is there a setting where that particular group wouldn't work?
And feats tied to tech. And a prestige class based around tech. And spells that interact with tech.
My point, which should be entirely uncontroversial, is that the Technic League is the least portable to most other settings for both flavor and rules reasons and therefore is the least likely to be in the book. I hope it is, since I like Golarion and tech, but if they're going to cut something I would expect this to be low on the priority list.
Kalindlara Contributor |
Isabelle Lee |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Technically, I believe its presence on the PRD is the determining factor, rather than which line it's from. It just seems like that sort of reference is RPG line-only because, other than that book, everything on the PRD is from the RPG line. (At least so far - there are murmurs that Aquatic Adventures might be added to the PRD as well.)
Personally, I wish Campaign Setting hardcover books like Inner Sea Gods were on the PRD; I'd love to be able to reference Deific Obedience and the boons. ^_^
Plausible Pseudonym |
Yeah, Inner Sea Gods is in this weird position where it's too useful not to have, but way too expensive for me to justify actually buying it. If it were RPG line and 9.99 for the PDF I'd go for it, but all the really important stuff is on the free sites and I don't need all the pages about the gods at this point.
PannicAtack |
thecursor wrote:Ah! Now we are back to the Product Discussion thread! I would like to see more on the resistance to these Adepts: the Riftwardens! I would also like to know if they are working on the problem of the Worldwound. It seems to be their jurisdiction...I for one wouldn't mind a little more love for the Blackfire Adepts as I have a character who was a former member and needs to be fleshed out more.
Guh. I've been kinda hoping they wouldn't come up on account of a bad campaign experience I had...
Silly, I know.
Crystal Frasier Developer |
archmagi1 |
Well damn, I will be unsubbing for this book and resubbing afterwards. I like to keep my RPG line separate from the Campaign line.
I'm still hoping we get substantial previews before the subscription auths. Otherwise I'll probably do the same, and maybe get only the pdf. If we get previews early enough to know what level of golarion is actually infecting the rpg line, it will help me decide better. I can handle setting fluff on par or a bit more than bestiaries, but if it's player companion levels of golarion, it's not something I really want a hardback of.