Skeld |
I'm always wary of monsters. I just was hoping to SEE some. But I guess it will wait for another day. Like Bestiary 6. ;)
I haven't seen any in here, but i may have missed something. However, it's not a surprise, given that this is basically and military conflict book.
I've got some reading to do though. I've been waiting for a Nirmathis gazetteer for a while. :)
-Skeld
Garrett Guillotte |
Thomas Seitz wrote:I'm always wary of monsters. I just was hoping to SEE some. But I guess it will wait for another day. Like Bestiary 6. ;)I haven't seen any in here, but i may have missed something. However, it's not a surprise, given that this is basically and military conflict book.
I've got some reading to do though. I've been waiting for a Nirmathis gazetteer for a while. :)
-Skeld
Jelly AF
Anything in there on organizing and controlling an army of owlbears? I mean obviously there has to be but I'd like to know details
Fourshadow |
Thomas Seitz wrote:I'm always wary of monsters. I just was hoping to SEE some. But I guess it will wait for another day. Like Bestiary 6. ;)I haven't seen any in here, but i may have missed something. However, it's not a surprise, given that this is basically and military conflict book.
I've got some reading to do though. I've been waiting for a Nirmathis gazetteer for a while. :)
-Skeld
Me too! Nirmathas has interested me almost as long as Andoran has...
Marco Massoudi |
DeciusNero wrote:How much dedication is there to the respective countries?There are 11 pages each for Nirmathis and Molthune.
-Skeld
22 out of 64 seems too few for 2 nations...
1. Which maps are in it?
2. How detailed are they (is every building/how many locations are marked)?
3. How good are they (are there enough different colors to distinguish regions, settlements, and sites from each other - this has been a problem lately, especially with last months Qadira book)?
Thank you, Skeld!
Skeld, PDF Prophet |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Skeld, PDF Prophet wrote:DeciusNero wrote:How much dedication is there to the respective countries?There are 11 pages each for Nirmathis and Molthune.
-Skeld
22 out of 64 seems too few for 2 nations...
1. Which maps are in it?
2. How detailed are they (is every building/how many locations are marked)?
3. How good are they (are there enough different colors to distinguish regions, settlements, and sites from each other - this has been a problem lately, especially with last months Qadira book)?
Thank you, Skeld!
It may not seem like much, but looking through it, it feels pretty complete. I'm sure there are more details they could get into additional pages, but this book isn't intended to just be a gazetteer.
1 - Molthune and Nirmathis each get half page maps on the inside cover. The Molthune chapter includes city maps of Canorate and Korholm. The Nirmathis chapter maps are Crowstump, Crystalhurst, and Tanram.
2 - The city maps are dtailed enough that you can see individual buildings and important locations are annotated. The number of annotations varies because each settlement is different.
3 - The nation maps are on par with what you'd find in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Another thing is that there is a chapter on region history (with timeline) and chapters about the on-going conflict between the two nation, as well as campaign advice and NPC/Troop information.
So far, I think this is a very good book.
-Skeld
Axial |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm particularly interested in this book because I ran a one-shot where the PCs were soldiers of Molthune fighting for their citizenship. It turned out...weird. Message me if you want details.
What is revealed here about the privileges of citizens in Molthune? I.e what incentivizes soldiers to risk their lives in order to become citizens?
Also, how much moral ambiguity is there in the conflict besides "Free-spirited Nirmathi resisting Molthune's imperialism!"?
Samy |
September will see a 96 page issue or even a hardcover?!
We already know this year's Campaign Setting hardcover: Inner Sea Faction Guide
Eric Hinkle |
I'm particularly interested in this book because I ran a one-shot where the PCs were soldiers of Molthune fighting for their citizenship. It turned out...weird. Message me if you want details.
What is revealed here about the privileges of citizens in Molthune? I.e what incentivizes soldiers to risk their lives in order to become citizens?
Also, how much moral ambiguity is there in the conflict besides "Free-spirited Nirmathi resisting Molthune's imperialism!"?
I hope you get an answer, these are questions I have myself.
And congrats on doing an adventure for Molthuni PCs.
Axial |
Axial wrote:I'm particularly interested in this book because I ran a one-shot where the PCs were soldiers of Molthune fighting for their citizenship. It turned out...weird. Message me if you want details.
What is revealed here about the privileges of citizens in Molthune? I.e what incentivizes soldiers to risk their lives in order to become citizens?
Also, how much moral ambiguity is there in the conflict besides "Free-spirited Nirmathi resisting Molthune's imperialism!"?
I hope you get an answer, these are questions I have myself.
And congrats on doing an adventure for Molthuni PCs.
The PCs were intended to invade the forest, discover that the Green Maiden was feeding Nirmathi commoners to a giant evil tree to break down the boundaries between the Material Plane and the First World for her master, the Green Mother. After dealing with the maiden, the PCs would return to the (strongly LE) General Armadus, who would then order them to raze the nearby Nirmathi village. So they would be faced with a choice of either becoming war criminals but getting citizenship, or becoming fugitives but not committing murder.
So the PCs all rolled CE characters and pretended to be edgy CN defectors from Nirmathas. They would do really creepy things on occasion that seemed rather evil; like telling a cultist who admitted to murdering a girl who rejected his marriage proposal that what he did was "understandable".
When they confronted the Green Maiden, they revealed to her (and to me) that they were demon worshippers and proposed an alliance. She agreed, and they sacrificed the nearby village that Armadus would have ordered them to destroy. They confronted Armadus and killed him; with our Antipaladin of Baphomet (or the "paladin" as the player described him to me before the game) being killed with a greatsword crit from Armadus. Baphomet thanked him for his service by implanting his soul within Armadus' iron, gear-powered chassis, allowing him to infiltrate Molthune from within. The Green Maiden presumably succeeded in her mission of breaching the Material with the First World.
Marco Massoudi |
Marco Massoudi wrote:September will see a 96 page issue or even a hardcover?!We already know this year's Campaign Setting hardcover: Inner Sea Faction Guide
No, we don´t. :-p
That book is part of the RPG line and not of the Campaign Setting line (even if i agree with you on it´s content being what you called it).
Also, i don´t see how a book coming out in may would be responsible for there being no Campaign Setting book in august. ;-)
Axial |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So wait, once "We aren't evil, we are CN" party was actually CE? ._. I thought lying to gm is sort of faux pas, though I guess that oneshot ended as cool anyway?
Just to ask, which god the antipaladin claimed to serve? xD
Yeah, at the beginning I thought they were a "Chaotic Neutral" evil party. I think they erred just enough on the immoral but not openly evil side that I didn't call their bluff.
I could have just demanded that they tell me their actual alignments or reacted poorly to them concealing said alignments from me; but it was honestly a really well thought-out ruse and made the game so much more memorable. I would compare it to a "Twilight Zone" plot twist.
The Dhampir Antipaladin of Baphomet claimed to be a Paladin of Apollo or some nonsense.
Zaister |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hm, turns out that the "detailed militia system" mentioned in the product description is very explicitly for the Ironfang Invasion Adventure Path, and is basically a reskinned version of the rebellion rules from the Hell's Rebels Players Guide. It seems a bit weird to me that this takes up 12 pages in a Campaign Setting book instead of going into the Ironfang Invasion Player's Guide, as with Hell's Rebels, though.
Axial |
Hm, turns out that the "detailed militia system" mentioned in the product description is very explicitly for the Ironfang Invasion Adventure Path, and is basically a reskinned version of the rebellion rules from the Hell's Rebels Players Guide. It seems a bit weird to me that this takes up 12 pages in a Campaign Setting book instead of going into the Ironfang Invasion Player's Guide, as with Hell's Rebels, though.
Yeah, that's...weird.
Do we get to command Nirmathi and Molthuni troops in Ironfang Invasion?
Amanda Hamon Developer |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hm, turns out that the "detailed militia system" mentioned in the product description is very explicitly for the Ironfang Invasion Adventure Path, and is basically a reskinned version of the rebellion rules from the Hell's Rebels Players Guide. It seems a bit weird to me that this takes up 12 pages in a Campaign Setting book instead of going into the Ironfang Invasion Player's Guide, as with Hell's Rebels, though.
A big conceptual difference between the militia system in Lands of Conflict and the rebellion system in the Hell's Rebels Player's Guide is that, while the latter is explicitly for use in Hell's Rebels and is constructed entirely in that context, the militia system in Lands of Conflict is more general and can be used in any game, homebrew or otherwise, where the GM or PCs want a mechanical system for building and running a militia from scratch. While the rebellion system's mechanics and flavor are tightly tied to Kintargo as well as the events and resources available in Hell's Rebels, the militia system in Lands of Conflict provides a way to easily build a militia in any game. The militia system's structure is very loosely based on the rebellion system, but that's about where the similarities end. Nirmathas, the Nirmathas-Molthune border, and even Molthune proper are some of the best-suited places to set a game in which players build a militia to oppose a larger force, so that's why the militia system is in Lands of Conflict.
That said, Crystal and I recognized that the militia system is perfect for Ironfang Invasion, since that AP is all about gaining allies and building forces to oppose a hobgoblin army. So, in Lands of Conflict's militia system, we included a short section with the recommended militia progression for each volume of that AP. Outside of that short section, though, the entire militia system is designed for use in any adventure you see fit.
For those who do decide to run Ironfang Invasion using the militia system, each volume of that AP will include a section giving explicit instructions and advice for doing so based on the adventure's events and NPCs. The Ironfang Invasion Player's Guide also will include a militia tracking sheet. That's because, in order to make sure the militia system was robust enough, we just couldn't squeeze a tracking sheet into Lands of Conflict. It's not needed for militia play, of course, but will be available for free as soon as the player's guide is released.
Just wanted to clarify for folks wondering about the differences between the two systems. :)
Amanda Hamon Developer |
Axial |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You are most welcome! :D Since the short section explaining how to use the militia system in Ironfang comes early in the system's text, I didn't want folks to get the impression that the system is explicitly for that AP. It just happens to work really well with it.
I second the other posters in thanking you for elaborating on the inclusion of the militia system.
Could you address a a thread I made recently? I had a question over how relevant Molthune is to the AP, and the reveal of this militia system has me wondering whether Molthunis will be among those you can recruit.
Amanda Hamon Developer |
Amanda Hamon Kunz wrote:You are most welcome! :D Since the short section explaining how to use the militia system in Ironfang comes early in the system's text, I didn't want folks to get the impression that the system is explicitly for that AP. It just happens to work really well with it.I second the other posters in thanking you for elaborating on the inclusion of the militia system.
Could you address a a thread I made recently? I had a question over how relevant Molthune is to the AP, and the reveal of this militia system has me wondering whether Molthunis will be among those you can recruit.
I didn't develop the AP, so Crystal would be the best person to address that question you linked.
Steve Geddes |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Only 11 pages for Molthune and
11 for Nirmathas, but 12 for a militia subsystem?This book sounds less and less good to me.
How long is the history part?
How long is the "9 fleshed out locations" part and what are the locations?
Thx.
I wouldn't write it off too quickly based on page count breakdowns. This book is hard to characterise in that way really (since each nation is so inextricably entwined with the other). I would spell it out as:
- 4 pages on the region as a whole - really about both nations (including the usual timeline which means that doesn't take up a couple of pages in the nation-specific chapters).
- 12 pages on Nirmathas (including the halfpage illustration and flavor-introductory bit which you may have been picturing in the 11 pages)
- 12 pages on Molthune
- 6 pages on the conflict - do you 'count' this as 3 each or a double-value 6 pages on top of the 12 of the nation you're interested in?
- 10 pages on adventuring sites - this also should really be "counted" I think (9 sites with one page each from fey forests to besieged forts to an astral demi-plane ruled by a dragon..)
- 18 pages on how to run campaigns commanding small military forces
I havent read much in detail (I prefer the harcopy which is still a couple of thousand miles away) but I like the look of it. The maps are definitely good quality - the inside cover one of each nation is as usable as the ISWG maps (and in a similar style). I didn't see any cities sitting in rivers or coastal ports ten miles inland and so forth.
As I said - I haven't read it to the point of being able to give a review but it looks great from what I've seen. It's definitely ramping up my interest in Ironfang Invasion. One of my favorite things about APs which are 'off the beaten track' a little is that we get a whole bunch of fresh, previously-only-hinted-at Golarion lore. :)
FWIW, 18 pages on the militia system is a good decision in my view (though that includes 'sample troops' and such, so it's not all rules). I say that as someone unlikely to actually use these rules. I'm nonetheless glad that paizo devoted enough pages to them to do them justice.
Sometimes rules subsystems in non-rulebooks can seem a bit skimpy, imo. There's no doubt a fine balancing act between flavor and mechanics when you include something like this in a product line more usually associated with flavor - I suspect it's more difficult than in a rules focussed book. I'm much more satisfied with a proper, fully detailed system than two or four pages (or something) of sketched out rules laid over the top of a book otherwise devoted to flavor.
Marco Massoudi |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Marco Massoudi wrote:Only 11 pages for Molthune and
11 for Nirmathas, but 12 for a militia subsystem?This book sounds less and less good to me.
How long is the history part?
How long is the "9 fleshed out locations" part and what are the locations?
Thx.
I wouldn't write it off too quickly based on page count breakdowns. This book is hard to characterise in that way really (since each nation is so inextricably entwined with the other). I would spell it out as:
- 4 pages on the region as a whole - really about both nations (including the usual timeline which means that doesn't take up a couple of pages in the nation-specific chapters).
- 12 pages on Nirmathas (including the halfpage illustration and flavor-introductory bit which you may have been picturing in the 11 pages)
- 12 pages on Molthune
- 6 pages on the conflict - do you 'count' this as 3 each or a double-value 6 pages on top of the 12 of the nation you're interested in?
- 10 pages on adventuring sites - this also should really be "counted" I think (9 sites with one page each from fey forests to besieged forts to an astral demi-plane ruled by a dragon..)
- 18 pages on how to run campaigns commanding small military forces
I havent read much in detail (I prefer the harcopy which is still a couple of thousand miles away) but I like the look of it. The maps are definitely good quality - the inside cover one of each nation is as usable as the ISWG maps (and in a similar style). I didn't see any cities sitting in rivers or coastal ports ten miles inland and so forth.
As I said - I haven't read it to the point of being able to give a review but it looks great from what I've seen. It's definitely ramping up my interest in Ironfang Invasion. One of my favorite things about APs which are 'off the beaten track' a little is that we get a whole bunch of fresh, previously-only-hinted-at Golarion lore. :)
FWIW, 18 pages on the militia system is a good decision in my view (though that includes 'sample...
Thank you Steve, that puts some of my fears to rest.
I also prefer the physical copy to the pdf, it´s much more easy on the eyes and faster to leaf through too.I will certainly get this, as i like the Campaign Setting books that describe a region best and with the release of this, we´ll have HALF of all the Avistani regions in a CS book.
I sure hope they´ll do Varisia, Brevoy and Taldor next. ;-)
TRDG |
Do you think this "works better" than the mass combat rules we have now, or is it only narrowed down from that in UC?
Pretty familiar with Hell's Rebels side of things so when I get my book I should be able to pick it up quickly and hoping I don't have to modify much, if anything for this system to have the players all fired up to play this aspect of It.
I'll be a player but the GM might need some help so better I get the feel now rather than later (during a game) me thinks
Thanks
Tom
Othniel |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What are the troops and NPCs in this book?
As for your previous question, the book is chock-full of juicy lore about both countries, and I'm not sure what was previously known. It's really all new to me.
Axial |
Axial wrote:What are the troops and NPCs in this book?** spoiler omitted **
As for your previous question, the book is chock-full of juicy lore about both countries, and I'm not sure what was previously known. It's really all new to me.
Awesome!
I think I'm going to use these troops in Ironfang Invasion, especially in the later chapters. I want Nirmathas and Molthune to team up against the Ironfangs, if that doesn't happen in the actual books. The PCs will be responsible for signing a treaty between the two nations, and will have the role of leading the Molthuni and Nirmathi forces on the battlefield against the Hobgoblins. I think they would find that very epic and rewarding.
John Ryan 783 |
Does anyone else think it's weird that the pc award for reaching rank 20 in your militia is 25,600 xp divided among the pcs.... When you have to be level 20 already to get rank 20? Seems like an odd choice.
The 8th team and +1 for focus is nice, but the pc award just seems off. It really feels like the title should be 20, and the bonus xp should be 19, even if it does ruin the base template of bonus xp every 5 ranks.
Marco Massoudi |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Does anyone else think it's weird that the pc award for reaching rank 20 in your militia is 25,600 xp divided among the pcs.... When you have to be level 20 already to get rank 20? Seems like an odd choice.
The 8th team and +1 for focus is nice, but the pc award just seems off. It really feels like the title should be 20, and the bonus xp should be 19, even if it does ruin the base template of bonus xp every 5 ranks.
Do your PCs have to be level 20 to reach level 20 in the militia score?
If yes, it´s pointless.Bonus XP for reaching a Militia Rank is totally useless to me anyway, as i mostly don´t use XP anymore, but tell players when to level up.
Getting additional abilities is better.
That being said, so far most subsystems weren´t worth bothering with (caravan rules being the worst and Hell´s Rebels rebellion system being the best).
John Ryan 783 |
John Ryan 783 wrote:Does anyone else think it's weird that the pc award for reaching rank 20 in your militia is 25,600 xp divided among the pcs.... When you have to be level 20 already to get rank 20? Seems like an odd choice.
The 8th team and +1 for focus is nice, but the pc award just seems off. It really feels like the title should be 20, and the bonus xp should be 19, even if it does ruin the base template of bonus xp every 5 ranks.
Do your PCs have to be level 20 to reach level 20 in the militia score?
If yes, it´s pointless.
Bonus XP for reaching a Militia Rank is totally useless to me anyway, as i mostly don´t use XP anymore, but tell players when to level up.
Getting additional abilities is better.
That being said, so far most subsystems weren´t worth bothering with (caravan rules being the worst and Hell´s Rebels rebellion system being the best).
Yeah, your rank can never surpass the party level.
motteditor RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 |
Kalindlara Contributor |
Gorbacz wrote:I love the ninja sneaky spoiler for Bestiary 6 in this book. Full rules for troops, ahoy!They're changing from Rasputin Must Die? (Or just being added in to Bestiary 6?)
Not necessarily changing. However... as it is now, the full rules for troops have to be printed with every statblock. Once they're in a Bestiary (and thus, on the PRD), new troops can just reference that the way they reference other subtypes. ^_^
Alexander Augunas Contributor |
motteditor RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 |
motteditor wrote:Not necessarily changing. However... as it is now, the full rules for troops have to be printed with every statblock. Once they're in a Bestiary (and thus, on the PRD), new troops can just reference that the way they reference other subtypes. ^_^Gorbacz wrote:I love the ninja sneaky spoiler for Bestiary 6 in this book. Full rules for troops, ahoy!They're changing from Rasputin Must Die? (Or just being added in to Bestiary 6?)
Thanks. That's what I thought it might be, but especially since I have a book of troops out, I wanted to verify. :)
Amanda Hamon Developer |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I still need to reread and test the militia rules, but at a glance they look fun and solid. Nice work, Crystal and Amanda! <3
I'm glad you like the militia rules, Alex. The credit for shaping and building the militia system goes to Lissa Guillet, who wrote that entire section, while Amber Scott authored the rest of the book. I'm very happy with Lissa's work and proud to have been the developer who worked on it!