N. Jolly |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've been waiting a while for this one, now this was the continuation of the content I wrote for the first book. There's a lot of stuff that I really liked in here, and I can say I enjoyed this book more than the previous one by a good bit.
Alchemical Scoundrel
Having gone through a name change, this was one that I liked just because I really like alchemist. It basically strips away the normal talents for spellcasting, and adds a few unique ones to your list. It's unique in that it's the only casting archetype I've seen that lets you keep specialization, which can make for one hell of a combination with other archetypes.
Consumed Vigilante
Now this one was suggested by someone on the playtest, and it was a lot of fun figuring out how to make it work. The idea of a vigilante who's slowly consumed by their own identity was a great concept, and works well for people who both don't want social talents or a second identity, giving the class's basic premise an interesting tweak.
Dread Champion
After last book's noble scion, the dread champion was basically guaranteed. Having a non CE antipaladin option for a lot of people was something that I felt was needed, and the more versatile smite you can get along with other cool options really helped make this feel unique.
Fortune Thief
The inspiration for this archetype is a seeeeeeeekret, but it was originally from another project that I wanted to use. The idea of stealing luck just seems so cool to me, and it has a very strong feel of the old luck feats from Complete Scoundrel to it as well as giving you a way to power them.
Plague Scion
A specific request for this book, the plague scion does the best you can at making disease more viable on the player's end, adding in tons of tricks like making it appear to be poison, increasing the speed at which it infects/damages, and allowing you to create your own pandemic within hours.
Protean Prowler
We all want shape changers, and this is the archetype that lets you play that protean character that we've all been needing. You can either shift yourself with eidolon evolutions or completely change your form as though using spells, and if you play it right, you can do both at the same time!
Shadow Savant
Shadow clones and teleportation along with impersonating others and jumping through shadows. Hell, you can even emulate any shadow spell around, making you a faux mage. Really, this is what I think is the best way to play both a shadow dancer style character and other shadow related concepts.
Symbiotic Slayer
Probably the most complex but also the most interesting archetype, you get your own symbiote that attaches to yourself and works both as a living shield and a second personality. You can just let it take over if you want or work to fight against its ego, being able to create weapons out of it as well as even allowing it to save you from death. The symbiote is definitely something that took a lot of tweaking to get to a point that I liked it, but it's also one of the more rewarding pieces of design I've done because of that.
New Social Talents
Slightly less goofy than the heroic ones, these are for the more pragmatic vigilante, letting you get an estimate of an opponent's number of skill ranks, hiding your thoughts from others, being able to wear another creature's face as your own, and have any alignment for your social or vigilante identity.
New Vigilante Talents
While last book was the melee book, this book picks it up in ranged and magic. You can pick up animal companions, empower yourself through blood, create an area of difficult terrain with your weapon, use a spiked chain as god intended, or become a critical god with an increased crit range for light weapons.
You can also become AMAZING with dirty tricks, use your hair as a weapon, or even grow more durable as your minions fall. My two favorite here are Magic Killer which lets you cleave through certain spells and effects and Magical Limit Break, which allows vigilantes to obtain 7th and 8th level spells (at 16th and 20th level respectively), letting them break the limits of their own magical power. Well that and being able to properly use a ripsaw glaive too.
New Feats
Aside from some standard 'extra' feats, there's also Charismatic Caster to turn any vigilante into a spontaneous charisma based caster, Genius and Wise vigilante to make you either an intelligence or wisdom based vigilante, and of course mystic accuracy to help really power up your mystic bolts. Mystic bolts received a LOT of support this book, making them a far more attractive option than before.
Crimson Dreadnought
To me, this is the faceless soldier+ prestige class. It gives you the ability to really play someone that is dedicated to a ruler with a lot of tools to make sure that you just don't go down. A faceless foe who can continue to rise after being taken down is easily the kind you'd want for your minions, at least I'd assume so.
Vigilante Variant Multiclass
Or as most people will look at it, the way to get yet another vigilante talent. It's actually pretty nice for non vigilantes if you're taking the masked identity line from Legendary Vigilantes, as it swaps out a feat in the identity chain. It's also a way to help get yourself the appearance features late in the game, which is pretty nice. And hey, extra social talent is already a feat, you can start taking social talents that require another identity.
New Magic Items
Really it's full of everything you need to be a jerk, including magic smoke pellets that scale with level, gloves that charm others that scale with level, and yet another tool to help boost your mystic bolts to acceptable levels.
Sample Character
I really enjoy Red Love, although a lot of that goes into enjoying women allowed to be the eccentric types. I also love female characters with no romantic plot tied to them, and I love symbiotes. So yeah, I love the hell out of Red Love, who's a great and fun character that can easily be thrown into most games. She's optimized to the point where she's a threat to most groups and a fun side villain to throw in if you need a 'dragon' to your BBEG.
Final Thoughts
The second half of the Legendary Vigilantes playtest and my first assigned project to Legendary Games, I had more fun with this than I expected. The vigilante is such a versatile class, and it's very fun to design for it. The fact that it had such a robust playtest speaks to how much people wanted content like this, and I have to thank all of my playtesters for being so diligent in keeping this project as great as it could be.
Now let's all take some time to enjoy being the bad guy.
Eric Hinkle |
I've been waiting a while for this one, now this was the continuation of the content I wrote for the first book. There's a lot of stuff that I really liked in here, and I can say I enjoyed this book more than the previous one by a good bit.
Consumed Vigilante
Now this one was suggested by someone on the playtest, and it was a lot of fun figuring out how to make it work. The idea of a vigilante who's slowly consumed by their own identity was a great concept, and works well for people who both don't want social talents or a second identity, giving the class's basic premise an interesting tweak.
Can we get some basic information on how this one differs from Legendary Vigilante's 'Exposed Vigilante', who has given up or lost their secret ID?
And the list for this one sounds amazing. I love LV so I'll definitely be getting this.
N. Jolly |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
N. Jolly wrote:I've been waiting a while for this one, now this was the continuation of the content I wrote for the first book. There's a lot of stuff that I really liked in here, and I can say I enjoyed this book more than the previous one by a good bit.
Consumed Vigilante
Now this one was suggested by someone on the playtest, and it was a lot of fun figuring out how to make it work. The idea of a vigilante who's slowly consumed by their own identity was a great concept, and works well for people who both don't want social talents or a second identity, giving the class's basic premise an interesting tweak.Can we get some basic information on how this one differs from Legendary Vigilante's 'Exposed Vigilante', who has given up or lost their secret ID?
And the list for this one sounds amazing. I love LV so I'll definitely be getting this.
Sure thing!
Now where the Exposed Vigilante is a hero who lives without a secret identity like Luke Cage, the Consumed Vigilante is more like a hero who has BECOME their identity like The Joker. Exposed Vigilantes still end up picking up social talents, while Consumed Vigilantes don't get social talents, instead gaining the ability to forgo eating, sleeping, drinking. To me, the difference here is that the Consumed Vigilante gives up the chance to have a more social side to be an overall tougher and more self sustaining vigilante.
N. Jolly |
Thanks, N. Jolly, that comparison/explanation really does help.
No problem, always glad to help. And thanks to Kim Hall for the review, I'm glad you liked this strong follow up to Legendary Vigilantes! Also Mercurial Duelist and Trickshot Sniper weren't dropped, they were just shifted to other projects. They'll be out eventually, there's no way I'd let two of my favorite archetypes stay on the cutting room floor.
Jason Nelson Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Eric Hinkle wrote:Thanks, N. Jolly, that comparison/explanation really does help.No problem, always glad to help. And thanks to Kim Hall for the review, I'm glad you liked this strong follow up to Legendary Vigilantes! Also Mercurial Duelist and Trickshot Sniper weren't dropped, they were just shifted to other projects. They'll be out eventually, there's no way I'd let two of my favorite archetypes stay on the cutting room floor.
Indeed, they are still coming soon... VERY soon!
N. Jolly |
Thanks to FedoraFerret and World's Okayest Fighter for the reviews, every review like this helps to find problems and figure out what worked, and I really appreciate the time that went into both of these.
Also I'm pretty happy how much people like Red Love. I have to admit, I always thought of her as the better of my 'iconics', and I'd like to see her 'bleed over' into more things.
Jason Nelson Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games |
Speaking of which, your next iconic is officially now in the COMING SOON pile!
Kozue Kaburagi, the iconic mercurial duelist, is in layout now as part of Asian Archetypes: Martial
Jason Nelson Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games |
Thanks to FedoraFerret, Kim Hall, and World's Okayest Fighter for your great reviews. We definitely appreciate you taking the time to review it here. Double thanks to FedoraFerret for copying his review over to Amazon.com - we would love it if Kim Hall and World's Okayest Fighter could copy yours over there as well. Reviews are key in Amazon's sorting algorithm and help our product pages get noticed so we can spread the love for LG!
Thanks again and I hope you enjoy using this book!
N. Jolly |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Man, I'm really happy to see some of the love that Red Love has been getting. Wanted to clarify something that I was asked before; with the new Magic Killer vigilante talent, you can use the attack from One Punch Assault/Master for it.
Also you automatically become proficient with any weapon you create with the Weaponized Symbiote vigilante talent. And if you possess the Heavy Arms Hero vigilante talent from Legendary Vigilantes, this does allow you to create oversized weapons with Weaponized Symbiote.
I should have more FAQ later, but these were some questions that had been asked of me elsewhere, and I wanted to make sure they were here in case anyone was curious.
StygianRose |
I have a few questions about the Dastard's Smoke Pellet-
1. Are they point-blank only?
2. If I premediate my plan more than a minute in advance, I will be able to look around and see whether I succeeded or not even if I fail the save?
3. Do they provide concealment / total concealment, like a regular smoke pellet?
4. Are they dispersed by wind? What speed?
5. Are they Multi-Use?
5a. Do they retain attunement after being used, if they are multi-use?
N. Jolly |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have a few questions about the Dastard's Smoke Pellet-
1. Are they point-blank only?
2. If I premediate my plan more than a minute in advance, I will be able to look around and see whether I succeeded or not even if I fail the save?
3. Do they provide concealment / total concealment, like a regular smoke pellet?
4. Are they dispersed by wind? What speed?
5. Are they Multi-Use?
5a. Do they retain attunement after being used, if they are multi-use?
1. They can be thrown, I'd say with a 20 ft range.
2. Yeah, I'd say so.
3. Yes, they're just better pellets.
4. They're treated the same as normal smoke pellets in that respect.
5. Yep, although the attunement rule stands.
5a. They do retain attunement.
And of course thank you for the review, and for posting it onto Amazon too! The more reviews we get everywhere, the more amazing people think I am, and that's a net gain for the city!
Fellfire |
Seriously folks. This book is worth the purchase price just for the Symbiotic Slayer/Red Love. I know she is just Venom/Carnage with maybe a little Darkchylde/Witchblade mixed in, but this is an awesome piece of design work. Kudos. Question. How soon can I have a trilogy of adventures written for this character? Maybe using some Horror rules. It won't be quick enough. I have to find me a really good serial killer/murder mystery mod. If you're on the fence about this product, get it. If you hadn't even considered it, get it. I am now taking a hard look at you LG. Keep it up.
Jason Nelson Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games |
Glad to hear it, Fellfire!
Btw, for those of you looking for some of the "missing" archetypes from the vigilante playtest, the mercurial duelist and sentai soldier just showed up in Asian Archetypes: Martial!
Go get it!
N. Jolly |
Seriously folks. This book is worth the purchase price just for the Symbiotic Slayer/Red Love. I know she is just Venom/Carnage with maybe a little Darkchylde/Witchblade mixed in, but this is an awesome piece of design work. Kudos. Question. How soon can I have a trilogy of adventures written for this character? Maybe using some Horror rules. It won't be quick enough. I have to find me a really good serial killer/murder mystery mod. If you're on the fence about this product, get it. If you hadn't even considered it, get it. I am now taking a hard look at you LG. Keep it up.
I was seriously thinking carnage/spiderman symbiotes here (which was the reason for the weakness ability), although I've only seen the anime version of witchblade.
Personally, I'd love to use Red Love/Kareena in other projects, and we will be getting stats on Red Love's mother in a future book as well so look out for that.
It'd mean a lot to me and everyone else if you could leave a review for the book, even if it's just talking about enjoying the symbiotic slayer and Red Love, and I hope to bring more monstrous characters out in a similar vein. I've told this to other people for whom I've written; a good sample character can make everything better.
N. Jolly |
Quick and dirty c/p review at Amazon. 5 stars.
Very much appreciated! Feel free to c/p it here on Paizo too, and know that both myself and my friends who I used to storyboard Red Love appreciate the support. Reviews are a great way to let publishers and writers know what you as a consumer appreciate and dislike (I know the 4 star review we had here gave me a few things I could sharpen up for future books). Again, thank you very much, and I'm really glad you enjoyed Red Love!
N. Jolly |
Np. Now do me a favor get started on those adventures. By xmas would be nice. ;
I'll talk with Jason about it, see what we can do. I have to admit, I really did love getting to do a meta plot for these two books with Dark Star and Red Love, even if one was obviously better received than the other (I enjoyed Red Love a lot more myself too), I'd love to see things like meta plots become more of a thing in LG content for sample characters and such, have some larger ties into some kind of LG canon.
Fellfire |
So, I was reading through Horror Adventures looking for elements I could use in conjunction with Red Love. I really would like to play up the creepiness of the symbiote and Kareena's madness. While looking through that book I noticed, what seem to me, a great many similarities between the Symbiotic Slayer and the Hive Corruption. Were you aware of this? Did any of the ideas presented therein have an effect on the SS archetype during development? Have you had the oppurtunity to read this book? If so, can you offer any suggestions I might use to entwine these two concepts?
N. Jolly |
So, I was reading through Horror Adventures looking for elements I could use in conjunction with Red Love. I really would like to play up the creepiness of the symbiote and Kareena's madness. While looking through that book I noticed, what seem to me, a great many similarities between the Symbiotic Slayer and the Hive Corruption. Were you aware of this? Did any of the ideas presented therein have an effect on the SS archetype during development? Have you had the oppurtunity to read this book? If so, can you offer any suggestions I might use to entwine these two concepts?
To me, this would be more of a cross between the possessed and hive corruptions from Horror Adventures, since the ego of the symbiote is an important part of the archetype. I tried my best to use as many existing mechanics as possible to keep people from needing to learn new ones (it's why it was a familiar instead of something new, using ego, medium styled possession mechanics), which I think helped the understanding of this complex archetype.
The hive had some, but most of them were just drawn from symbiotes in fiction, as well as other protean characters.
I think the idea of mixing a corruption with a symbiote would be very interesting, possibly tying it to the hive corruption. While it's unspecified, at a later date I will be doing a Symbiote corruption to allow more characters to play a character like this. I talked with a friend about this, and there would be about 3 tiers of symbiote:
Tier 3 is Corruption; this is the least controlled symbiote and the one most likely to be a parasite instead of a symbiote. It's easily the most dangerous of them.
Tier 2 is Symbiotic Slayer; this is more of a symbiosis rather than a parasite, but it still has the risk of losing one's self to it, even if temporary.
Tier 1 is Undefined; there's been some talk of me making a class based around symbiotes with similar mechanics as were presented here, and I can't say I'm opposed to it. It would probably be the most stable of the symbiote options once I've written it.
N. Jolly |
Just came by to say that this level of communication with a writer is really awesome, it's cool to see questions being answered this fast!
Thank you, N. Jolly. I agree with WOF. It is indeed awesome when we as fans of this game get to interact with and get questions answered from the people who created elements of it. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for future products.
No problem, I enjoy interacting with others.
Few notes; Panache Pool is going to be cleaned up soon (I'm deciding what to do with it), and a bit of clarification on the Forbidden Knowledge feat: If you are a spontaneous caster, you gain a 7th level spell known from your spell list upon selecting this talent, and an 8th upon selecting Magical Limit Break a second time.
Also a character who takes the Chain Lasher or Rip an' Tear talent possesses the EWP feat for them, they can select another feat in its place.
Fellfire |
Were there any symbiote talents/abilities that did not survive the playtest? Apparently, the playtest is no longer available and I have been unable to track down a copy. I would like to see the symbiote's natural attacks do more dmg than d4. I suppose this can be overcome by using Weaponized Symbiote (nice touch with the enhancements, btw. I would like to have seen this also with natural attacks) to form oversized claws for d6-d8, however this renders Rending Symbiote extraneous, although with iterative attacks and TWF I suppose it is a fair trade. This is not a criticism of your design, more an observation of the system (I would also like to see Rapidstrike updated, but that's a different conversation). I, for one, would be interested in seeing this presented as a unique class. I am not a big fan of the Vigilante, but see the role-playing potential in it.
Jason Nelson Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games |
Fellfire |
A 3five feat. And a fairly specific one at that. Works just fine for aberration "as written" though. Or an aurumvorax. That would be ridiculous. There you go, a new mythic monster.
I'm not sure not sure how the wording would go, could Rending Symbiote be used to gain the Two-weapon Rend feat without taking the prereqs so that it might he used with the Weaponized Symbiote trait, or was this done deliberately?
Fellfire |
Symbiotic Empowerment (Ex) The symbiotic slayer gains a +2 alchemical bonus on Strength and Dexterity checks (except initiative
checks) and treats their strength score as though it was 2 higher for the purpose how much they can lift and carry. At 6th level and every 4
levels thereafter, this alchemical bonus and the symbiotic slayer’s
effective strength for lifting and carrying increases by +2. Also if the
symbiotic slayer is missing any limbs, while their symbiote is manifested, they can choose to replace those limbs with their symbiote.
This does not make sense to me either. I am not a dev and also a little dull. Could you explain the reasoning behind this, please. Why was initiative (dex) and dmg (str) excluded? Was it simply deemed too powerful? I don't think so. Would it not have been simpler to just have a straight scaling increase to those two abilities (str and dex)? I think that thematically appropriate.
N. Jolly |
Were there any symbiote talents/abilities that did not survive the playtest? Apparently, the playtest is no longer available and I have been unable to track down a copy. I would like to see the symbiote's natural attacks do more dmg than d4. I suppose this can be overcome by using Weaponized Symbiote (nice touch with the enhancements, btw. I would like to have seen this also with natural attacks) to form oversized claws for d6-d8, however this renders Rending Symbiote extraneous, although with iterative attacks and TWF I suppose it is a fair trade. This is not a criticism of your design, more an observation of the system (I would also like to see Rapidstrike updated, but that's a different conversation). I, for one, would be interested in seeing this presented as a unique class. I am not a big fan of the Vigilante, but see the role-playing potential in it.
Nope; I'm a big fan of polishing off anything I can in a playtest to make it ready to use. I can admit if I could go back, I'd probably have the damage die of the bestial symbiote's natural attacks increase; I originally had it set like that, but feared increasing damage dice, which is why it's how it is now.
I'll talk with Jason about making a base class based on this, possibly something on the smaller end since it would be borrowing a lot from the archetype's chassis, and I'd actually completely forgot about the old rapid strike feat. Vigilante made the most sense for this as an archetype, but I can see having issues with the base class, as it's not for everyone.
A 3five feat. And a fairly specific one at that. Works just fine for aberration "as written" though. Or an aurumvorax. That would be ridiculous. There you go, a new mythic monster.
I'm not sure not sure how the wording would go, could Rending Symbiote be used to gain the Two-weapon Rend feat without taking the prereqs so that it might he used with the Weaponized Symbiote trait, or was this done deliberately?
I'd be fine letting Rending Symbiote work as the prereq for two weapon rend myself.
Symbiotic Empowerment (Ex) The symbiotic slayer gains a +2 alchemical bonus on Strength and Dexterity checks (except initiative
checks) and treats their strength score as though it was 2 higher for the purpose how much they can lift and carry. At 6th level and every 4
levels thereafter, this alchemical bonus and the symbiotic slayer’s
effective strength for lifting and carrying increases by +2. Also if the
symbiotic slayer is missing any limbs, while their symbiote is manifested, they can choose to replace those limbs with their symbiote.This does not make sense to me either. I am not a dev and also a little dull. Could you explain the reasoning behind this, please. Why was initiative (dex) and dmg (str) excluded? Was it simply deemed too powerful? I don't think so. Would it not have been simpler to just have a straight scaling increase to those two abilities (str and dex)? I think that thematically appropriate.
This was entirely because of balance, yeah. It would have also infringed on surging symbiote, although thinking about it more, being able to add this to initiative checks would have been probably fine. This was also my way of allowing people to play a character missing a limb, since some people have expressed interest in that. In the original backstory for Red Love, she was missing her right hand and took this talent, but it was lost after a few re-writes.
Fellfire |
Synergetic Pounce (Ex) [symbiote] When using the Charge action the manifested Symbiotic Slayer can make a full-attack against their opponent. At 7th level the Symbiotic Slayer can manifest mid-charge and pounce on an opponent in the same round.
Leaping Symbiote (Ex) [symbiote] Once per round, when manifested, the Symbiotic Slayer gains a +10 competence bonus on Acrobatics checks made to attempt high or long jumps, treating such jumps as though they had a running start. This competence bonus increases to +20 at level XX, and to +30 at level XX.
Clinging Symbiote (Ex) [symbiote] When manifested the Symbiotic Slayer can climb and travel on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings. The Symbiotic Slayer must have its hands free to travel in this manner. The Symbiotic Slayer gains a Climb speed of 20 feet and a +8 bonus on Climb skill checks; furthermore , it need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down). A Symbiotic Slayer retains its Dex bonus to AC (if any) while climbing and opponents get no special bonuses to their attacks against it. It cannot however, use the Run action while climbing.
* really surprised you did not do this one.
Brutal Symbiote (Ex) [symbiote] The Symbiotic Slayer’s natural attacks improve to 1d6/1d6 (claw) and 1d8 (bite). A Symbiotic Slayer must have the bestial symbiote talent and be level XX or higher to select this talent.
Savage Symbiote (Ex) [symbiote] The Symbiotic Slayer’s natural attacks improve again to a maximum 1d8/1d8 (claw) and 2d6 (bite). A Symbiotic Slayer must have the brutal symbiote talent and be level XX or higher to select this talent.
Symbiotic Alacrity (Ex) [symbiote] The Symbiotic Slayer moves with inhuman speed. When making a full-attack action, the Symbiotic Slayer may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon. The attack is made using the creature's full BAB. This increases to a maximum of two extra attacks at level XX. It gains a +1 haste bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. This bonus increases to +X at level XX and +X at level XX. It also gains a +10 ft. enhancement bonus to its land speed. This bonus increases to +20 at level XX and +30 at level XX. The Symbiotic Slayer must be level XX or higher to select this talent.
* this one really needs help. I am trying to work in haste, Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike.
Blayde MacRonan |
When I initially saw the symbiotic slayer, Venom and Carnage didn't immediately come to mind. My first thought was of The Guyver.
It was only after reading over the archetype that I saw it was more like the Spider-Man villainous symbiotes, which saddened me greatly. I went to check and see if the Sentai Soldier could be used alongside symbiotic slayer, but nope that didn't workout either.
Understanding that you weren't thinking along those lines, I think you missed out on an opportunity to take elements of kineticist and apply it to this archetype to give it something similar to the thoracic particle beam cannon (more commonly known as the Mega Smasher) or even the Gravity Launcher/Pressure Cannon in the form of symbiote talents? Who knows... perhaps its something you could do at another time.
N. Jolly |
Thank you, as always, for your reply, Mr. Jolly. I look forward to future updates of the class/archetype. I plan on turning Red Love up past 11. Yes, I hate my players, but, in my defense, they deserve it.
Please tell me how it goes, and I'm taking note of your suggestions here in case I do get the chance to do something with this archetype.
When I initially saw the symbiotic slayer, Venom and Carnage didn't immediately come to mind. My first thought was of The Guyver.
It was only after reading over the archetype that I saw it was more like the Spider-Man villainous symbiotes, which saddened me greatly. I went to check and see if the Sentai Soldier could be used alongside symbiotic slayer, but nope that didn't workout either.
Understanding that you weren't thinking along those lines, I think you missed out on an opportunity to take elements of kineticist and apply it to this archetype to give it something similar to the thoracic particle beam cannon (more commonly known as the Mega Smasher) or even the Gravity Launcher/Pressure Cannon in the form of symbiote talents? Who knows... perhaps its something you could do at another time.
For the villain vibe, I thought Venom/Carnage worked best, but if people are behind a base class enough, I'm actually interested in seeing more fictional symbiotes to really get a strong view on how to best regulate them. Right now I'm planning on watching a Prototype playthrough for some ideas, since that's something that I've gotten a lot of people telling me to check out.
Please let me and my publisher know if more expanded symbiote content is what you're looking for so I can put it onto my schedule.
Fellfire |
Years ago, in the Image comic universe, there was a character by the name of Warblade. He had this outer "skin" of liquid metal a la the T-1000. Usually he just shaped his fingers into slashy claws but after training be could shape himself into elaborate forms with such evocative names as Murder Tree, Skin of Thorns, Blood-Bird Posture, Fountain of Daggers, Flail of Arrows, Ruin's Butterfly, and Bloody Briar. Now, there was a monster way back in the 2e era known as Living Metal that could probably be used in this regard. There might be something there for a talented designer, I don't know.
I think what Blayde here is talking about is anime, I recognize the name Guyver, but not much else. Never was much of a fan behond GitS, Ninja Scroll and a few others that made a big splash. However, many people are. And since kineticist seems to be everybody's favorite shiny new toy, I think this could work. A symbiote with energy blasts certainly fits the bill.
On a related note (I think), another cool concept not yet explored in Pathfinder, yet may be something to consider in the near future, what with the Iron Gods AP and the upcoming Starfinder is the concept of a cybernetic symbiote. Although I do not know them by name, I do know that manga/anime has been using this trope for many years. Definitely some potential there as well.
Just some random thoughts from a disorganized brain.
Fellfire |
If I could pick at the crunchy part of your brain for a minute (that sounded weird), last night I was reading up on the base Vigilante class for a bit before my mind wandered. I have not yet crunched the numbers on Red Love. Did you use the slightly more robust (full BAB) Avenger type or the sneaky Stalker type for her? I could not tell at first glance (kind of dull, remember), as much of the other abilities are subsumed by the symbiote. If you were going to do a symbiote base class, it would almost certainly have to use the (Un?)Rogue or Ninja chassis just for the talents, right? Unless you rebuild from the ground up. Although I have not had the opportunity to pick up Unchained Fighters or its upcoming sequel yet, isn't Alexander working on something like talents for the fighter. Really still pretty novice at meta-crafting and tinkering with the mechanics of the classes. Any insights into this process are appreciated as is your continued participation in this scroll. I hope the repeated bumps to the top of the pile keep people interested and your work succesful.
Milo v3 |
I think a Symbiot-wearing base class would be very well received by those who are not keen on the Vigilante. It might open similar possibilities of abilities mix and match without the dual identities / superhero thing
I'd definitely hope you can still do the dual identity thing with it. Many people (myself included) rather liked flash as a symbiote-wearing superhero with dual identities.
N. Jolly |
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If I could pick at the crunchy part of your brain for a minute (that sounded weird), last night I was reading up on the base Vigilante class for a bit before my mind wandered. I have not yet crunched the numbers on Red Love. Did you use the slightly more robust (full BAB) Avenger type or the sneaky Stalker type for her? I could not tell at first glance (kind of dull, remember), as much of the other abilities are subsumed by the symbiote. If you were going to do a symbiote base class, it would almost certainly have to use the (Un?)Rogue or Ninja chassis just for the talents, right? Unless you rebuild from the ground up. Although I have not had the opportunity to pick up Unchained Fighters or its upcoming sequel yet, isn't Alexander working on something like talents for the fighter. Really still pretty novice at meta-crafting and tinkering with the mechanics of the classes. Any insights into this process are appreciated as is your continued participation in this scroll. I hope the repeated bumps to the top of the pile keep people interested and your work succesful.
I went more avenger for her myself, and yeah, it'd have that chassis even if a lot of talents from the core archetype. Really, I want to keep the talent strength on par with vigilante talents. I haven't checked out the UC Fighter yet, I might later and do a review on it, so I'll have to talk to Alex about that.
I think a Symbiot-wearing base class would be very well received by those who are not keen on the Vigilante. It might open similar possibilities of abilities mix and match without the dual identities / superhero thing
And it could be a balanced replacement for the Synthesist Summoner :-)
Talking with the publisher, they're game for me to write up a symbiote base class, so the last few days has been doing researcher.
The following are the sources I'm using:
-Spiderman
-Warframe
-Prototype 1/2
-The Guyver
I've only gotten a chance to check out half of these so far, so if you have any other inspiration I should check out for this new class, let me know.
And it was left out of her entry, but Red Love is weak to Cold.
I'd definitely hope you can still do the dual identity thing with it. Many people (myself included) rather liked flash as a symbiote-wearing superhero with dual identities.
Technically you could still pull this off with the masked identity line from Legendary Vigilantes, also I remember hearing that Paizo put out a way for anyone to do dual identities as well, so that'd easily be possible.
The Symbiote Base Class is now officially in the pipeline though, even if I have things in front of it.
Blayde MacRonan |
I think what Blayde here is talking about is anime, I recognize the name Guyver, but not much else. Never was much of a fan behond GitS, Ninja Scroll and a few others that made a big splash. However, many people are. And since kineticist seems to be everybody's favorite shiny new toy, I think this could work. A symbiote with energy blasts certainly fits the bill.
On a related note (I think), another cool concept not yet explored in Pathfinder, yet may be something to consider in the near future, what with the Iron Gods AP and the upcoming Starfinder is the concept of a cybernetic symbiote. Although I do not know them by name, I do know that manga/anime has been using this trope for many years. Definitely some potential there as well.
Just some random thoughts from a disorganized brain.
Yes, The Guyver is from the Japanese manga that has two anime and even a couple of American-made live-action films. The Guyver Units are a symbiotic bio-organic alien technology, so it fits in with your cybernetic symbiote idea.
N. Jolly |
I would consider Deathlok (from Marvel comics) the wearer of a technological symbiote. I will look for other such characters
Dethklok, eh? That's Doable!
I really should check the superhero wiki, I'm sure Spawn technically falls under the symbiote rainbow too even though his is some kinda hell spawn thing. Thanks for the reference, I'll check it out.
Luthorne |
There isn't an anime for it, but Sengoku Youko might be worth checking out for a more fantasy-based version, a lot of people have been partially fused with various yokai and can transform to manifest demonic limbs and such; in particular, one fairly important character has one thousand demons bound to him and can do some pretty crazy s&&@.
I also like Parasyte, though that's not quite symbiote-level, since the protagonist only has part of his body infested...though that could make for an interesting archetype. But it does have an anime!
If you really want to go oddball with some high level stuff...well...Kill la Kill might count...?
Edit: Also, someone else has tackled this with the Primal Host, so that might be worth checking out for some inspiration for your take on it.
Edit: Also also, a friend of mine recommends looking into Splicers from Palladium Games for some ideas.