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Pathfinder Adventure Path: Curse of the Crimson Throne (PFRPG)

***** (based on 3 ratings)
Pathfinder Adventure Path: Curse of the Crimson Throne (PFRPG)
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A Campaign Fit For a Queen

The kings and queens of Korvosa have long ruled under the shadow of the Curse of the Crimson Throne—an infamous superstition claiming that no monarch of the city of Korvosa shall ever die of old age or produce an heir. Whether or not there is any truth to the legend of the curse, Korvosa's current king is but the latest victim to succumb to this foul legacy. Now, the metropolis teeters on the edge of anarchy, and it falls to a band of new heroes to save Korvosa from the greatest threat it has ever known! This hardcover compilation updates the fan-favorite campaign for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, including new and revised content and nearly 500 pages packed with mayhem, excitement, and adventure!

This hardcover edition of Curse of the Crimson Throne contains:

  • All six chapters of the original Adventure Path, expanded and updated for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
  • An in-depth gazetteer of the city of Korvosa as it exists under the rule of its new queen.
  • An array of new rules options for characters, ranging from campaign traits to spells to magic items.
  • An expansive appendix with statistics, descriptions, backgrounds, and rules support for the 12 most important NPCs in the campaign.
  • A bestiary featuring nine monsters from the original Adventure Path making their debut under the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules.
  • Dozens of new illustrations, never-before-seen characters, location maps, extensive new encounter locations, and more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-890-8

Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Sanctioned Content
Curse of the Crimson Throne is sanctioned for use in Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild.

Download the rules for running this Adventure Path and Chronicle sheets — (681 kb zip/PDF)

Product Availability

Hardcover: Ships from our warehouse in 1 to 7 business days.

PDF: Will be added to your My Downloads Page immediately upon purchase of PDF.

Non-Mint: Ships from our warehouse in 1 to 7 business days. This product is non-mint. Refunds are not available for non-mint products. The standard version of this product can be found here.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

PZO1021


See Also:

Product Discussion (1,014)
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Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
I'm afraid I don't understand the question, then. What would they need to change?

Review the following.

Hayato Ken wrote:

This might seem like an off call, but due to recent experiences i would prefer Paizo switch the AP design to 6 PCs instead of 4 or at least include some serious recommendations on how to "upgrade".

Most AP´s i see played have 6-7 PCs.
Do you feel that an adventure written for 4 PCs is easily adjusted for 6-7? Do you object to the adventure being adjusted to be written for 6? Or to having sidebars with recommendations for adjustments up or down?

I see. I had forgotten that part; thank you for the reminder. My focus was entirely on the "what if I have Batman, Sherlock Holmes, and Toph for PCs" part of the post.

My concern with the adjustment version of the proposal is the amount of space it would consume, especially in a printed product. (PFS only has to worry about digital space, not printed pagecount.) Still, it could be feasible.

As for defaulting to six or more PCs, that's for people with more data than I to determine. My groups tend to have three players each. ^_^


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I think that Dr. D should become a Vivisectionist Alchemist. At least that what he is in my game

Dark Archive

Hayato Ken wrote:

Can we please skip the "need to defend Paizo" and "everything in GM hands" options as well as the "this is not feasible" choir?

It´s an all too common trend to answer questions which err on a bit more critical side.

Also, i don´t see how giving some newer books some thought comes anywhere close to adressing every possible group makeup.
There´s a ton of new stuff and books, ignoring that they were produced in the meantime won´t do this AP any good.

On the upside, i especially mentioned the vigilante and the investigator because i think they might actually fit in here and by dropping some lines on that, a lot could be won.

1. Some old character classes ARE actually replaced with newer classes from the APG or other books.

Read the spoilers from JJ in this thread for more info.
Personally i am totally for making Blackjack into a vigilante too, but maybe they have done this or added a sidebar for it. Give it some time, it's still 6 months till release.

2. The AP line is and should be for 4 players and NOT 6.
That's what the Organized play scenarios are for.
I often have trouble getting 4 players together the older i get because people have increasing personal lives and matters to attend to.
I play far more often with 3 players and sometimes with 5.
6 hasn't happened in years.
Almost every group i know has the same problem.

That said, i would love for Paizo giving advice for 3, 5 & 6 player adjustment BUT i can understand that it is both very time intense and takes too much space in the product itself that could and should be filled with new material.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Problem with APs being designed for 6 players is that getting 4 players is hard in some places :P I'm not sure if in area where you live getting 8 people is easy, but over here its really bleebing hard even online.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:


I find the accusation of blind defense of Paizo a bit insulting, to be honest. Disagreement and blind defense are very different things.

As for "everything in GM hands", there has to be a balance there. A pregenerated adventure will never be perfect for your group. At the same time, I agree that there is room to include more of the recent content in the revised AP - the shaman class is another with obvious opportunities for inclusion.

Finally, there is a vigilante in the book, using the newly released class and everything. ^_^

Well, the first answers to my question were pretty dismissive.

I´m certainly not accusing anyone of blind Paizo defense, but there is a disturbing trend on this forums to silence a lot of viable critical questions, without answering them at all.
This doesn´t necessarily tribute to a good forum atmosphere.
Disagreement and blind defense are indeed two different things, but you say yourself you didn´t really read my post or were only concentrating on the last part of it. That´s how quickly disagreement literaly becomes "blind" defense ;)

TOZ summed up what i am/was after pretty well.
I didn´t see the comment on one villain being a vigilante yet, but i think that´s a pretty good decision.
Overall i think it´s a very valid concern.
Paizo wants to sell new stuff, that´s fine.
People banning most of that stuff in their games aren´t the ones to buy said new stuff. Logically supporting that new stuff and making parts of it more accessible to people who arent number crunchers or don´t have the luxury of spending that much time (read: not no time) is in the interest of Paizo.

Given that i do organize PFS events for Paizo and get to talk to quite some people, that´s a friendly boiled down version of opinions reaching me.

Dark Archive

Isn't that kind different thing though?

I mean, in pfs its rather common that older seasons are easier because writers couldn't account for something that new classes and archetypes allows player to do .-. But in PFS, you have to run scenarios as written, that ain't problem in home games.

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

PFS itself is kind of different, yes. But it´s not like PFS players only play PFS stuff. More like people who also play PFS play most stuff in my experience. And when you go fishing for new players, a lot of people come to you talking about PF in general and you hear any complaints they might have or not, wether you want or not.
Everyone feels entitled to give you their opinion on the latest books, classes, adventures, whatever up to that one time they played with that one horrible GM (in which case you often need to explain that that was a GM problem, not a PF game system problem).

Anyway, it´s not a PFS concern or problem though, but a very AP centric one, so i don´t want to derail myself in that direction. I only wanted to point out that this is not a thing concerning my private single home game.
At the same time it´s not meant to devalue other opinions here either though, before someone gets that idea.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

20 people marked this as a favorite.
Hayato Ken wrote:

Can we please skip the "need to defend Paizo" and "everything in GM hands" options as well as the "this is not feasible" choir?

It´s an all too common trend to answer questions which err on a bit more critical side.

Also, i don´t see how giving some newer books some thought comes anywhere close to adressing every possible group makeup.
There´s a ton of new stuff and books, ignoring that they were produced in the meantime won´t do this AP any good.

On the upside, i especially mentioned the vigilante and the investigator because i think they might actually fit in here and by dropping some lines on that, a lot could be won.

If you're going to be critical, you also need to be ready to deal with criticism in return. It's ugly to be critical but then get super defensive and accusatory when someone is critical right back at you.

We built Pathfinder on the assumption of a 4 player group, and for better or worse, that's the game we have. The PFS org play group has switched to a six player assumption, but that's more out of a need to fit more gamers at tables since it gets more participation in a limited space at a convention than if we limit it to tables of 4.

Now... it's important to remember that while 6 players may be the norm for your group, it's not the norm for EVERY group. We don't have the luxury of customizing each adventure to each table, nor is it valuable to "waste" wordcount on "Here's how to adjust things for your table if you have three or one or five or six or eight players." The PFS adventures do this, and it dramatically increases their word counts, but they can do this without worrying about fitting things in because those adventures are PDFS and do not have to comply with the restrictions of a book with a limited number of pages. It ALSO dramatically increases the time it takes to write, develop, and edit the thing, which is not something we're ready to do for print products either as they're pretty much filling their schedules tight already–artificially inflating the time it takes to write, edit, and develop print products would either mean our subscribers would be missing months (not good) or we'd have to ship products with more errors because we rushed them (also not good) or we'd have to hire more folks to do the work (which would result in price increases most likely to help us cover our costs, which while that might be good for Paizo in some ways, is not in others).

As for incorporating other books...we have done so. That's part of the updating job. This doesn't always mean swapping out an NPC's old class for a new one (I prefer to NOT do this because I want to preserve the original flavors as much as possible, but in the few cases it makes sense, I've changed some classes around). It also means talking about how those new classes interact with the adventure when needed. I didn't develop the hardcover in an artificial bubble of "make believe there's no books out but the core book" at all.

Anyway... I hope those answers satisfy you, even though I doubt they're the answers you want. It's the same kind of answers I've given many other times for this project and for previous ones like the Runelords hardcovers, so there's a reason why folks tend to react the way they did to your questions. That your questions had a confrontational tenor implied in them (whether or not you meant it, it was there, which is why folks got "defensive") is something to keep an eye on in the future... for EVERYONE, for that matter.

We're here, in theory, to game and have fun. Not to antagonize each other. Keep that in mind.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

19 people marked this as a favorite.

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

ALL of that sort of advice is more or less "not feasible' to put into an adventure. We're able to build the adventures we do in the way we do BECAUSE we have a GM on team with the writer, developer, editor, artists, and art director. All of those roles are required to present an adventure to a group of players. We do what we can to make the GM's job easier, but it's still going to be tough and still going to require work on your part to customize to your game. Adding in customized "here's how" sidebars in adventures would crowd out pages and pages of content, and seeing how folks are already pretty eager to freak out whenever they imagine we're "robbing them" of content by doing something like running with a larger font size or putting ads in the book or including additional support articles... I'm confident that spending several pages overall on tips to adjust adventures for size or options would NOT be popular.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:


Now... it's important to remember that while 6 players may be the norm for your group, it's not the norm for EVERY group. We don't have the luxury of customizing each adventure to each table, nor is it valuable to "waste" wordcount on "Here's how to adjust things for your table if you have three or one or five or six or eight players.".

Here is where I get to champion once again a call for a GM book that focuses on all the things we GM's have struggled with...

Scaling, mounted combat, flying, odd rules situations, how to deal with some of the more problematic spells... Just think if you had such a product you could point at it as the official 'this is how you adjust' instead of talking about word count ;)

Anyway - had to take the opportunity to plug this idea!

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

How about a PDF only book of this sort? I'd shell out $10 for this sort of book. Perhaps an 'Advanced GM's Guide' sort of series?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Being PDF only saves time and money on printing, but from the point of view of Paizo staff takes the same amount of time and effort to write and lay out as any other product. Basically, they'd either have to turn out an extra book on top of their normal yearly schedule or cut a product from an existing line to make room for such a book.

Personally, I'd certainly buy such a book, either PDF or print, but its audience would be only-GMs not both-GMs-and-players like books with extra mechanical options or world flavor. As such, it would almost certainly sell fewer copies than the typical Paizo product.


Awesome, this is one of my all time favorites. I played through it and am very excited to run it in pathfinder conversion.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
I'm confident that spending several pages overall on tips to adjust adventures for size or options would NOT be popular.

For what it's worth I'd take a GM tips section of every adventure path over any other section put in except town/city articles. And yes I'd take that over monsters, deity articles, story, extra lore, you name it. Oddly I don't need art, or graphics, or maps (except as perhaps examples - meaning like are of effect or attack of opportunity type graphs) - As a GM I'd find this type of article more valuable than any other thing in the adventures currently outside of the adventure.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Modules Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

ALL of that sort of advice is more or less "not feasible' to put into an adventure. We're able to build the adventures we do in the way we do BECAUSE we have a GM on team with the writer, developer, editor, artists, and art director. All of those roles are required to present an adventure to a group of players. We do what we can to make the GM's job easier, but it's still going to be tough and still going to require work on your part to customize to your game. Adding in customized "here's how" sidebars in adventures would crowd out pages and pages of content, and seeing how folks are already pretty eager to freak out whenever they imagine we're "robbing them" of content by doing something like running with a larger font size or putting ads in the book or including additional support articles... I'm confident that spending several pages overall on tips to adjust adventures for size or options would NOT be popular.

I don't really think I need that stuff...as I already tailor any AP's a run on the fly (sometimes to entirely different systems even).

However, perhaps if something like that was combined with another idea (for example, maybe a GM box with a Sandpoint booklet, a GM booklet with advice like above, and more monsters and such)....


1 person marked this as a favorite.

James Jacobs,

About Blood Pig...?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

James Martin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

How about a PDF only book of this sort? I'd shell out $10 for this sort of book. Perhaps an 'Advanced GM's Guide' sort of series?

If we're going to put a lot of work into a book like this, it's not gonna be a PDF only book.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Seitz wrote:

James Jacobs,

About Blood Pig...?

Blood Pig (and Knivesies) remain a part of the Adventure Path. They've both had minor adjustments for clarity and the like, but do not take up more or less room overall than they did before. Neither of these elements really requires "expansion" because they were already as big as they needed to be.

Dark Archive

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Personally i would like a GM Handbook II much more than a Bestiary 6.

A universal system for scaling encounters down to 2 or 3 players and up to 5 or 6 as well as 3D flight rules, clarification of some spells and so on in the style of the Rules Compendium would be great.


James Jacobs wrote:

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

ALL of that sort of advice is more or less "not feasible' to put into an adventure. We're able to build the adventures we do in the way we do BECAUSE we have a GM on team with the writer, developer, editor, artists, and art director. All of those roles are required to present an adventure to a group of players. We do what we can to make the GM's job easier, but it's still going to be tough and still going to require work on your part to customize to your game. Adding in customized "here's how" sidebars in adventures would crowd out pages and pages of content, and seeing how folks are already pretty eager to freak out whenever they imagine we're "robbing them" of content by doing something like running with a larger font size or putting ads in the book or including additional support articles... I'm confident that spending several pages overall on tips to adjust adventures for size or options would NOT be popular.

That seems like something that wouldn't have to be done by paizo itself. Could make a good community project.


Browman wrote:


That seems like something that wouldn't have to be done by paizo itself. Could make a good community project.

Perhaps even along the lines of a Paizo backed competition?

Lantern Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I´m not here to antagonize other people, so i´ll leave that with saying that it wasn´t my intent and excuse for any offense.

James Jacobs wrote:

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

ALL of that sort of advice is more or less "not feasible' to put into an adventure. We're able to build the adventures we do in the way we do BECAUSE we have a GM on team with the writer, developer, editor, artists, and art director. All of those roles are required to present an adventure to a group of players. We do what we can to make the GM's job easier, but it's still going to be tough and still going to require work on your part to customize to your game. Adding in customized "here's how" sidebars in adventures would crowd out pages and pages of content, and seeing how folks are already pretty eager to freak out whenever they imagine we're "robbing them" of content by doing something like running with a larger font size or putting ads in the book or including additional support articles... I'm confident that spending several pages overall on tips to adjust adventures for size or options would NOT be popular.

I actually like most of your answers there, because it shows that you see what i´m talking about and at least recognize it.

If there´s no place for such a book (yet), how about some blog posts?
Not only for differently sized groups, but also how to mitigate different power levels and how to deal with some of the newer classes in older adventures and at all. That could also show resonance.


Pathos wrote:
Browman wrote:


That seems like something that wouldn't have to be done by paizo itself. Could make a good community project.
Perhaps even along the lines of a Paizo backed competition?

Not sure if a competition is the best way to create a product designed to give advice.


Browman wrote:
Pathos wrote:
Browman wrote:


That seems like something that wouldn't have to be done by paizo itself. Could make a good community project.
Perhaps even along the lines of a Paizo backed competition?
Not sure if a competition is the best way to create a product designed to give advice.

As Hayato Ken put it abive, it wouldn't need to necessarily be a product, but a series of DMing blogs that people could summit their articles for.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

I want this! Of course it wouldn't sell as much as a player options book: there's 4+ players to every 1 GM, so I understand the reluctance to do another "GM only" type book. But that's a bit sad. I pretty much only buy the player options type books because I need to keep up with/ahead of my players.

Books with "how to be a good GM" advice are sadly scarce. The Game Mastery Guide is probably the best I've read, but there's definitely enough extra stuff, including what's suggested above, to fill another book of the same size.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

James Jacobs,

About Blood Pig...?

Blood Pig (and Knivesies) remain a part of the Adventure Path. They've both had minor adjustments for clarity and the like, but do not take up more or less room overall than they did before. Neither of these elements really requires "expansion" because they were already as big as they needed to be.

Cool! :) Cause like I said, love Blood Pig. Knivesies is alright but my heart belongs to Blood Pig.


One thing I wonder... will we get access to an updated poster map (8 panel)?

EDIT: I guess I could be clearer... an updated poster map of Korvosa.


*shrugs* All I know is I'm getting the things I wanted.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathos wrote:
Browman wrote:


That seems like something that wouldn't have to be done by paizo itself. Could make a good community project.
Perhaps even along the lines of a Paizo backed competition?

No. No way.

If it's going to be a Paizo book, I want it to be one we put all our energy into making it as perfect as possible and not spread that energy thin with the SIGNIFICANT amount of work that judging and running it as a contest would entail.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Hayato Ken wrote:

I´m not here to antagonize other people, so i´ll leave that with saying that it wasn´t my intent and excuse for any offense.

James Jacobs wrote:

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

ALL of that sort of advice is more or less "not feasible' to put into an adventure. We're able to build the adventures we do in the way we do BECAUSE we have a GM on team with the writer, developer, editor, artists, and art director. All of those roles are required to present an adventure to a group of players. We do what we can to make the GM's job easier, but it's still going to be tough and still going to require work on your part to customize to your game. Adding in customized "here's how" sidebars in adventures would crowd out pages and pages of content, and seeing how folks are already pretty eager to freak out whenever they imagine we're "robbing them" of content by doing something like running with a larger font size or putting ads in the book or including additional support articles... I'm confident that spending several pages overall on tips to adjust adventures for size or options would NOT be popular.

I actually like most of your answers there, because it shows that you see what i´m talking about and at least recognize it.

If there´s no place for such a book (yet), how about some blog posts?
Not only for differently sized groups, but also how to mitigate different power levels and how to deal with some of the newer classes in older adventures and at all. That could also show resonance.

Blog posts might work, but that would require a significant revision to the way we currently do blog posts, who writes them, when they're created, and so on. Blog posts that aren't in some way about building excitement for upcoming products are few and far between... this is because paizo.com is a store first and an RPG resource second.

AKA: As it currently stands, something like this isn't really feasible for our blog, for better or worse, without some significant changes to the way we handle our blogs. And those decisions are above my pay grade.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
It was already confirmed that Blackjack will be a Vigilante and that some elements will be converted to newer material (eg. the kooky Nosferatu will be an Alchemist) but there won't be any major sweeping alterations to what already was present in the AP.

No offense Gor dude but we just got confirmation that we'd be getting stats for Kazavon as herald of Zon-Kuthon. I'd say that's a major change right there. :D

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Hayato Ken wrote:

Well, the first answers to my question were pretty dismissive.

I´m certainly not accusing anyone of blind Paizo defense, but there is a disturbing trend on this forums to silence a lot of viable critical questions, without answering them at all.
This doesn´t necessarily tribute to a good forum atmosphere.
Disagreement and blind defense are indeed two different things, but you say yourself you didn´t really read my post or were only concentrating on the last part of it. That´s how quickly disagreement literaly becomes "blind" defense ;)

TOZ summed up what i am/was after pretty well.
I didn´t see the comment on one villain being a vigilante yet, but i think that´s a pretty good decision.
Overall i think it´s a very valid concern.
Paizo wants to sell new stuff, that´s fine.
People banning most of that stuff in their games aren´t the ones to buy said new stuff. Logically supporting that new stuff and making parts of it more accessible to people who arent number crunchers or don´t have the luxury of spending that much time (read: not no time) is in the interest of Paizo.

Given that i do organize PFS events for Paizo and get to talk to quite some people, that´s a friendly boiled down version of opinions reaching me.

I did read your post - accusing me of not reading it is rather insulting. I didn't directly address a portion of it at first, focusing on a different section instead, and forgot the section in question by the time I'd posted. There's no need for accusations of that sort.

That said, though, I apologize if my response came off as dismissive. I do try to be helpful here.

I've heard it said elsewhere - and maybe Mr. Jacobs can confirm this - that they don't use every single book in every campaign, since they want to keep the campaigns accessible to people who don't want to use every book they've printed.

The new vigilante isn't necessarily a villain, by the way...

Spoiler:
The notorious vigilante Blackjack is the first thing most of us thought of when the new class was announced.


YAY for Blackjack! :D

Also YAY for Blood PIG! :)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I'll be honest (and apologies to Thomas), I had an issue with blood pig the first time around.

Spoiler:
The problem is the way the "rival team" is built, with Improved Unarmed Strike. It makes it challenging to PCs who choose to participate, and not in a good way - they're put at a big disadvantage against opponents that hit them every time they attack. Unless the PCs are unarmed specialists themselves, they're going to get crushed.

That was just my experience, though. Your mileage may vary. ^_^

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Berselius wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
It was already confirmed that Blackjack will be a Vigilante and that some elements will be converted to newer material (eg. the kooky Nosferatu will be an Alchemist) but there won't be any major sweeping alterations to what already was present in the AP.
No offense Gor dude but we just got confirmation that we'd be getting stats for Kazavon as herald of Zon-Kuthon. I'd say that's a major change right there. :D

Not sure where you got that confirmation. That's certainly not the case. Kazavon is not Zon-Kuthon's herald.


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I always though Kazavon was more like a saint for Zon-Kuthon than his Herald.

Kal,

I just like seeing people run around with pigs under the arms and throwing them. I'm strange that way.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Yeah, the idea of the game is great. ^_^ The encounter just wasn't to my liking.


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*shrugs* I just like ideas more than executions. *pauses* Dammit! I didn't realize that was a pun until I wrote! :p

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Folks, let's keep this product discussion thread for discussion of this product. If you'd like to talk about the potential for a product dealing with GM advice on scaling (or other things), feel free to start a separate thread in a more appropriate subforum.


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What if I want to start a thread on the merits of how much I enjoy Blood Pig and that it should be a national past time in Korvosa?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

Frankly, a "how to adapt adventures" product is a good idea. A product that helps GMs adjust adventures for more players or to account for new character build options is something I've wanted to do for a LONG LONG LONG time. It'd double down with a "How do you build adventures" handbook and perhaps even a book to help GMs run higher level content, with tips and suggestions for how to keep a game running smoothly at those levels. Unfortunately, I've had no luck (obviously) convincing management that such a book would be a wise idea to put on the schedule, and they are probably right, since a book like this would most likely sell a LOT less than another book filled with character options.

ALL of that sort of advice is more or less "not feasible' to put into an adventure. We're able to build the adventures we do in the way we do BECAUSE we have a GM on team with the writer, developer, editor, artists, and art director. All of those roles are required to present an adventure to a group of players. We do what we can to make the GM's job easier, but it's still going to be tough and still going to require work on your part to customize to your game. Adding in customized "here's how" sidebars in adventures would crowd out pages and pages of content, and seeing how folks are already pretty eager to freak out whenever they imagine we're "robbing them" of content by doing something like running with a larger font size or putting ads in the book or including additional support articles... I'm confident that spending several pages overall on tips to adjust adventures for size or options would NOT be popular.

The book would be more of a GM book, that is for sure, and I'd be sure to get it ASAP. Given the niche books you guys are putting out sometimes (Arcane Anthology comes to mind), I wonder why writing a book like this would seem so daunting to management. The Gamemastery Guide was also mostly an advice book, after all.

Community Manager

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James Jacobs wrote:
As it currently stands, something like this isn't really feasible for our blog, for better or worse, without some significant changes to the way we handle our blogs. And those decisions are above my pay grade.

Not mine! :P

Also, another reminder to keep this focused on the product—any suggestions for other products need to go in the appropriate forum, such as here.


Liz Courts wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
As it currently stands, something like this isn't really feasible for our blog, for better or worse, without some significant changes to the way we handle our blogs. And those decisions are above my pay grade.

Not mine! :P

Also, another reminder to keep this focused on the product—any suggestions for other products need to go in the appropriate forum, such as here.

Does that include my formal request that Korvosa make Blood Pig it's national sport?


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TEH KITTEH WANTS IT!!!

As Curse of the Crimson Throne was my very first AP set in Golarion to be played, since the GM ran book two of Rise of the Runelords as a stand-alone, I would LOVE to have the chance to re-explore my all-time favorite AP!

THANK YOU PAIZO, YOU CAN TAKE MY MONEYZ NOW!!! ^_^


James Jacobs wrote:
We built Pathfinder on the assumption of a 4 player group, and for better or worse, that's the game we have.

With this in mind, is it still accurate to say that the 4 player group assumed by APs and PF in general is presumed to be entry-level, first-time players using a 15 point buy? Or has that assumption (and therefore the APs, including this reprint of CoCT, and their difficulty level) shifted closer towards a more experienced group and/or 20 point buy? Or higher?


James Jacobs wrote:
The closest you'll get to a "written statement" is the core rulebook, which indicates that the "standard fantasy" point buy is 15 points. The APs are designed with that expectation—that, and 4 players using the medium XP track. The more you deviate from those norms, the more you'll need to adjust the encounters.

From here

Until the Core Rulebook changes, I don't see the core assumption changing. They have to build these things basically with the assumption that the group only has Core Rulebooks, a bestiary, and maybe access to the PRD for additional bestiary stats.


*thinks he'll go read more CotCT to get himself ready for this release*

Plus you know, see if there's a question about updates in this that I forgot to ask about.


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Loke Blood Pig?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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magnuskn wrote:
The book would be more of a GM book, that is for sure, and I'd be sure to get it ASAP. Given the niche books you guys are putting out sometimes (Arcane Anthology comes to mind), I wonder why writing a book like this would seem so daunting to management. The Gamemastery Guide was also mostly an advice book, after all.

Arcane Anthology is in the "niche" of a "book that provides players with more options." As far as our sales can tell, that niche appeals to a HUGE number of players, whereas a book about GM advice would appeal to a fraction of probably 1/5 of the total base (GMs who aren't too proud to learn more about GMing).


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I have practically no pride left. Let's do some learning.

Anyway, what am I going to do with my old 3.5 copies of CotCT now?!

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