Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of Dragons (PFRPG)

Gisher wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Damn, that was quick.

I'm guessing that they rushed to get it out before the upcoming convention.

I notice that the outer dragon variant bloodlines are the only ones banned. Any idea what made those so different from the others?

They were left out in the cold?

They were not part of the inner circle?
They didn't know people on the inside?

There just wasn't space for them.

Har Har Har... ;-)

re: the Sovereign Blade, it sounds like the relatively low Resistance is based on the fact it can apply vs. Force/Sonic, which are rare to find resistance for AND largely tend to have smaller damage dice... I don't know if they should have used differing levels of Resistance vs. normal Elements and vs. Force/Sonic... Or perhaps just also apply the Saving Throw bonus to Saves vs. Elemental Damage/Effects, which would effectively double the Resistance if it helps you Halve the damage in the first place. Sounds like that Alignment Save Bonus should have been scaling too, especially since Mount/Companion pretty strongly scales, I don't see why it couldn't scale up to +5 or something, I mean, if you got flat-out Immunity at 18th+ level I don't think anybody would think it's overpowered or unfair trade...

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

Covetous Oracle Curse is basically the next big thing for casters.

What does it do?

You have to wear an increasing amount of wealth or get sickened, you also get sickened if someone steals from you.

Heh. Called it.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

Covetous Oracle Curse is basically the next big thing for casters.

What does it do?

You have to wear an increasing amount of wealth or get sickened

Is this "act like a PC and wear valuable stuff" or "blow your WBl really inefficiently" (like Ostentatious Display)

Rysky wrote:

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

Covetous Oracle Curse is basically the next big thing for casters.

What does it do?

You have to wear an increasing amount of wealth or get sickened

Is this "act like a PC and wear valuable stuff" or "blow your WBl really inefficiently" (like Ostentatious Display)

Magic items do not count for this curse. You must wear non-magical clothing and jewelry worth 50 GP + 100 GP per character level beyond 1st.

It doesn't eat magic item slots like Ostentatious Display, at least. ^_^

Seeing so many items in the book legal for play in PFS is a hilarious contrast to Horror Adventures.

It doesn't eat magic item slots like Ostentatious Display, at least. ^_^

Sexy jewelry harness! YUS!

I hope to one day see variant dragon companion rules for other types of dragons.

*nods*

Wants little bebe Linnorm buddy.

BADLY.

Linnorms, dragon kin, wyverns, etc., also maybe even new species designed for these rules in mind.

Also a faerie dragon variant that instead of increasing in size like the drake companion it increases in caster level by 2 for each size category it would have gone up.

I have some concerns about giving a spellcaster in place of an animal companion. The trade-offs to balance those archetypes would be unreal.

*nods*

Wants little bebe Linnorm buddy.

BADLY.

I know that it isn't explicitly called a linnorm... but the nycar is pretty much exactly what you're looking for. ^_^

Rysky wrote:

*nods*

Wants little bebe Linnorm buddy.

BADLY.

I know that it isn't explicitly called a linnorm... but the nycar is pretty much exactly what you're looking for. ^_^

Ah cool! I didn't know you could get those as an Improved Familiar, thanks Kali!

Dawwwwwwww, they like to make traps :3

Kalindlara wrote:

Rysky wrote:

*nods*

Wants little bebe Linnorm buddy.

BADLY.

I know that it isn't explicitly called a linnorm... but the nycar is pretty much exactly what you're looking for. ^_^

Ah cool! I didn't know you could get those as an Improved Familiar, thanks Kali!

Dawwwwwwww, they like to make traps :3

Awe, how precious. Maybe I should design an NPC with one.

Kalindlara wrote:

It doesn't eat magic item slots like Ostentatious Display, at least. ^_^

Sexy jewelry harness! YUS!

I could see a merchant laying a trap for somebody who wants to meet this curse's requirement Dejah Thoris style. He would sell her what is purportedly extremely valuable jewelry and then follow her to her next battle. Then, as combat threatens, he cackles with glee as he reveals that all the jewelry he sold her consists of worthless fakes. He then makes a quick getaway as she becomes sickened before going into combat.

Edit: Okay, the oracle does get a bonus to Appraise checks, so the unscrupulous merchant will have to resort to magic or other forms of trickery to pass off the fake jewelry. It probably should not happen too often.

Secret Wizard wrote:

Wait, couldn't you and a drake companion take the Improved Spell Sharing feat to get past the drake companion missing Share Spells?

Oh yeah that would work since the Drake would fall under "special mount".

I believe they took great care of making the Drake Companion its very own thing, so I am not sure that it could fly under the "special mount" banner which might also be its very own thing

Isn't there a class feature with this very name or is "special mount" generic enough to allow other class features through ?

Rysky wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

Wait, couldn't you and a drake companion take the Improved Spell Sharing feat to get past the drake companion missing Share Spells?

Oh yeah that would work since the Drake would fall under "special mount".

I believe they took great care of making the Drake Companion its very own thing, so I am not sure that it could fly under the "special mount" banner which might also be its very own thing

Isn't there a class feature with this very name or is "special mount" generic enough to allow other class features through ?

To my knowledge there is no actual class feature specifically called "special mount", so yes I believe class ability that gives someone a unique mount is what it would fall under.

Rysky wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

It doesn't eat magic item slots like Ostentatious Display, at least. ^_^

Sexy jewelry harness! YUS!

I could see a merchant laying a trap for somebody who wants to meet this curse's requirement Dejah Thoris style. He would sell her what is purportedly extremely valuable jewelry and then follow her to her next battle. Then, as combat threatens, he cackles with glee as he reveals that all the jewelry he sold her consists of worthless fakes. He then makes a quick getaway as she becomes sickened before going into combat.

Edit: Okay, the oracle does get a bonus to Appraise checks, so the unscrupulous merchant will have to resort to magic or other forms of trickery to pass off the fake jewelry. It probably should not happen too often.

Hmm, I don't think that would work since if they paid the price for them then they are now worth that amount, at least to them. Eh, that just gets into wonky of "worth" though.

Kalindlara wrote:

It doesn't eat magic item slots like Ostentatious Display, at least. ^_^

Sexy jewelry harness! YUS!

Not sure how I feel about you or Kal wearing a harness of made of jewelry...

The new Oracle Curse also works for those who want to make an Oracle powered by the Prophecies of Kalistrade.

Rysky wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

It doesn't eat magic item slots like Ostentatious Display, at least. ^_^

Sexy jewelry harness! YUS!

Not sure how I feel about you or Kal wearing a harness of made of jewelry...

Well, I know how I feel about it.

Care to share then Kal?

Rysky wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

It doesn't eat magic item slots like Ostentatious Display, at least. ^_^

Sexy jewelry harness! YUS!

Not sure how I feel about you or Kal wearing a harness of made of jewelry...

How about me? ;)

Gisher,

I assumed you were a gold golem...

Dang it, I was going to grab it as soon as it went on sale, but I nodded off. Got it, now downloading...

Just bought it and I love it :D Great counterpart to WotC's Draconomicon and Dragon Magic from the guys at Paizo

One problem though...

The Drake companion's tiny!

Look, I get that it works fine for some archetypes, but not for the cavalier and paladin archetypes presented.

A Small rider will only benefit from the mount class feature at 9th level, while a Medium rider will only benefit from it at 13th level (!!)

If the drake's size was Small, it wouldn't have been that problematic, but here, the mount useability comes a bit late.

It's only late if you don't play past those levels.

It starting off as tiny is offset by it ending up as Huge.

It's only late if you don't play past those levels.

It starting off as tiny is offset by it ending up as Huge.

By comparison, a paladin gets a suitable-sized mount at 5th level (whether s/he's Small or Medium) and a cavalier gets it at 1st level (again, regardless of the rider's size).

We're talking about a difference in levels ranging from 9 to 13 levels.

Yikes!

Rysky wrote:

It's only late if you don't play past those levels.

It starting off as tiny is offset by it ending up as Huge.

By comparison, a paladin gets a suitable-sized mount at 5th level (whether s/he's Small or Medium) and a cavalier gets it at 1st level (again, regardless of the rider's size).

We're talking about a difference in levels ranging from 9 to 13 levels.

Yikes!

At-will flight is incredibly powerful and game-breaking if attained too early.

Don't forget the existence of Undersized Mount...

Yeah, being able to fly all the time from level 9 on at expense of one 1 feat is incredibly strong. Granted, you need to pick an archetype that kicks many of your class abilities away, but you have one of the biggest martial in-combat issues fixed.

JiCi wrote:

Rysky wrote:

It's only late if you don't play past those levels.

It starting off as tiny is offset by it ending up as Huge.

By comparison, a paladin gets a suitable-sized mount at 5th level (whether s/he's Small or Medium) and a cavalier gets it at 1st level (again, regardless of the rider's size).

We're talking about a difference in levels ranging from 9 to 13 levels.

Yikes!

At-will flight is incredibly powerful and game-breaking if attained too early.

Tell that to the carpet of flying...

Beside, the drake "loses" its highest flight-related power with the mount power, unless it takes on the improved mount power. Furthermore, it only gains it when the drake is correctly-sized for the rider. A certain feat (quoted below) might not work for these rules, because the rider takes it, not the drake itself.

Don't forget the existence of Undersized Mount...

While forgeting the existence of carrying capacities and the fact that both the cavalier and paladin scream at "wearing heavy armors and weapons, in addition of bardinsg for the mount"? Yeah... kinda hard here...

I get that there are ways to increase a mount's capacity and overall stats, but between going the extra mile with a feat and [magical] gear and simply level up... one seems less costly than the other :S

A carpet of flying costs a minimum of 20,000 gp. I doubt many people will be getting one before 9th level or so...

And I guess I just took it for granted that most people with a flying mount are going to have to worry about weight issues...possibly including using light armor. Barding doesn't really matter, since drakes refuse to wear any?

I just DL'ed this book, and so far I'm really digging it. But I'm looking at the Dragonheir Scion (the fighter archetype), and unless I'm reading it wrong, it seems to fall back to the "bad old days" of bad Will saves (it trades away Bravery, so no Armed Bravery or Improved Bravery). Am I overthinking this, or is this something to mind if you're thinking about using this class?

A carpet of flying costs a minimum of 20,000 gp. I doubt many people will be getting one before 9th level or so...

And I guess I just took it for granted that most people with a flying mount are going to have to worry about weight issues...possibly including using light armor. Barding doesn't really matter, since drakes refuse to wear any?

Correct.

I just DL'ed this book, and so far I'm really digging it. But I'm looking at the Dragonheir Scion (the fighter archetype), and unless I'm reading it wrong, it seems to fall back to the "bad old days" of bad Will saves (it trades away Bravery, so no Armed Bravery or Improved Bravery). Am I overthinking this, or is this something to mind if you're thinking about using this class?

I'm not really sure what you're asking here.

I'm not really sure what you're asking here.

One of the classic pitfalls of the fighter has always been "bad Will saves are bad". In the past few months, we've seen new ways emerge to get around that, utilizing Bravery's bonus. The new archetype trades out Bravery. To me, that pushes this archetype really close to the borderline of cost-benefit (what it gives up vs. what it gets). I guess I'm asking if anyone else feels that way.

Rysky wrote:

I'm not really sure what you're asking here.

One of the classic pitfalls of the fighter has always been "bad Will saves are bad". In the past few months, we've seen new ways emerge to get around that, utilizing Bravery's bonus. The new archetype trades out Bravery. To me, that pushes this archetype really close to the borderline of cost-benefit (what it gives up vs. what it gets). I guess I'm asking if anyone else feels that way.

Okay...

Fighter isn't the only class that has a bad will save.

I'm looking at the Dragonheir Scion (the fighter archetype), and unless I'm reading it wrong, it seems to fall back to the "bad old days" of bad Will saves (it trades away Bravery, so no Armed Bravery or Improved Bravery).

I wouldn't corner myself with 'bravery is a must'. Because then I'd be stuck with the requirement of Cha 13 - and only ~1/3 of the fighter archetypes.

Alternatives would be a different race choice, a trait bonus, investing a bit into Wis, feats like Iron Will / Jackal Heritage / Free Spirit etc.. They would offer noticeable bonuses early on, for the price of being relatively weak on the long run - e.g. compared to a +10 bonus at level 20.

@Rysky: Of course. But the "Bravery fixes" just about made them over into a class with a good Will save by most relevant measures. Trading that away would be something, not deal-breaking, but something I'd really have to think about before I pulled the trigger.

I'm inferring from your reaction that you don't see this as too valuable a piece to give up?

(Pause for disclaimer: on the off-chance this is coming across as hostile or combative, please don't take it that way. I don't think it is, but better to be sure.)

I wouldn't corner myself with 'bravery is a must'. Because then I'd be stuck with the requirement of Cha 13 - and only ~1/3 of the fighter archetypes.

Not a must, no. But a "think hard about whether what you're giving up is worth the trade."

(And you can also get there with an Advanced Weapon Training option.)

*shrugs*

If you want a good Will save don't trade away Bravery and go with the options you mentioned.

Or take the Archetype and take the other suggestions for boosting up your Will.

Or play another class with a better Will save and options regarding Will saves.

It's only late if you don't play past those levels.

It starting off as tiny is offset by it ending up as Huge.

APs barely get past those levels, and at that point, Mounts and the like become hard to use most of the time.

*shrugs*

If you want a good Will save don't trade away Bravery and go with the options you mentioned.

Or take the Archetype and take the other suggestions for boosting up your Will.

Or play another class with a better Will save and options regarding Will saves.

I don't know how to say it, but, in the past few weeks, many of your retorts have made little to no sense.

Rysky wrote:

It's only late if you don't play past those levels.

It starting off as tiny is offset by it ending up as Huge.

APs barely get past those levels, and at that point, Mounts and the like become hard to use most of the time.

1) Not all games are APs (but you get Huge at 17 and that's where most APs end so it's a nice endgame boost).

2) Mounts that can't fly.

Guy St-Amant wrote:

Rysky wrote:

It's only late if you don't play past those levels.

It starting off as tiny is offset by it ending up as Huge.

APs barely get past those levels, and at that point, Mounts and the like become hard to use most of the time.

1) Not all games are APs (but you get Huge at 17 and that's where most APs end so it's a nice endgame boost).

2) Mounts that can't fly.

Enclosed environment?

Rysky wrote:

*shrugs*

If you want a good Will save don't trade away Bravery and go with the options you mentioned.

Or take the Archetype and take the other suggestions for boosting up your Will.

Or play another class with a better Will save and options regarding Will saves.

I don't know how to say it, but, in the past few weeks, many of your retorts have made little to no sense.

?

How did that not make sense?

Rysky wrote:

Guy St-Amant wrote:

Rysky wrote:

It's only late if you don't play past those levels.

It starting off as tiny is offset by it ending up as Huge.

APs barely get past those levels, and at that point, Mounts and the like become hard to use most of the time.

1) Not all games are APs (but you get Huge at 17 and that's where most APs end so it's a nice endgame boost).

2) Mounts that can't fly.

Enclosed environment?

Drakes don't have the no-dungeon clause that other mounts tend to have.

Guy St-Amant wrote:

Rysky wrote:

*shrugs*

If you want a good Will save don't trade away Bravery and go with the options you mentioned.

Or take the Archetype and take the other suggestions for boosting up your Will.

Or play another class with a better Will save and options regarding Will saves.

I don't know how to say it, but, in the past few weeks, many of your retorts have made little to no sense.

?

How did that not make sense?

Saying "don't like it, don't play it" doesn't address any of the issues, it's avoiding talking about them. and many people hate when others do that.

Rysky wrote:

Guy St-Amant wrote:

Rysky wrote:

*shrugs*

If you want a good Will save don't trade away Bravery and go with the options you mentioned.

Or take the Archetype and take the other suggestions for boosting up your Will.

Or play another class with a better Will save and options regarding Will saves.

I don't know how to say it, but, in the past few weeks, many of your retorts have made little to no sense.

?

How did that not make sense?

Saying "don't like it, don't play it" doesn't address any of the issues, it's avoiding talking about them. and many people hate when others do that.

You'll notice (if you actually read my response) that I adresses their point twice before suggesting they try another clas if those two other suggestions didn't work for em.