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Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of Dragons (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of Dragons (PFRPG)
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The Power of Dragons Is Yours

Few creatures inspire greater awe than dragons, and Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of Dragons dives into the ripples left in these mighty creatures' wake. Whether they help or harm, dragons make a lasting impression, from the legends and philosophies they inspire to the bloodlines they foster.

Inside this book you'll find:

  • New archetypes ranging from the dragonheir scion to the wyrmwitch, allowing players to access draconic appearances as well as lore, powers, and spells.
  • Ways for characters to enlist drakes and lesser dragons to serve as allies, improved familiars, and even flying mounts.
  • New draconic bloodlines for bloodragers and sorcerers, allowing eldritch abilities based on esoteric, imperial, outer, and primal dragons.

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, but can be easily incorporated into any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-853-3

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Player Companion Subscription.

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Product Discussion (1,284)
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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:

Yippee for Drake Companions! Dragonheir Scion (might be my first actual fighter character!)!

So much Draconic goodness!

Still have not seen details on the Chymist archetype...

They're based out of Kaer Maga, their Mutagen is STR focused and gives natural attacks, they must apply the explosive breath discovery to all their bombs, and gain Draconic resistances and immunities.
That sounds like fun! What features get altered/replaced?
Alters Mutagen (and can't take Mutagen discoveries) and replaces the discoveries at 2nd, 12th, and 16th, Throw Anything, Poison Resistance, Poison Use, and Swift Poisoning.

Oof wow, that's a really rough trade out for what they get, especially the part about preventing Mutagen discoveries.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:

They get their immunities (and vulnerabilities)from their Type, not through any racial abilities, like everything else with an elemental Type gets unless stated otherwise.

So a Fire Drake, Dragon (Fire), gets immunity to Fire and Vulnerability to Cold.

Doc The Grey wrote:

Holy s$+$ how'd I forget that? I redact the chunk of this directly pertaining to starting types not getting immunities. That said, it still feels odd that there are no way to give the other options energy resistances through drake power. Feels weird that you can kill a drake with their own breath weapon if they aren't fire or cold.

All of that said the subtype thing makes all of this even weirder. Shouldn't the air drake have a fly speed since all air types have a fly speed and doesn't the water drake need amphibious so it can breathe air?

Rysky wrote:

Um, there's only elemental options for the drakes so except for the Aether, Earth (though you think they would get acid), and Water all drakes all are immune to their own breath weapon if they decide to get one.

Air Drakes start out with Glide and build up to the best flight power, Water Drakes (having the Water subtype) gain the ability to breathe water and can already breath air due to being a drake.

Actually the fact that they are a drake doesn't grant them any special exception to breathing air. All the water drakes that can breathe on land have the amphibious special quality granting them that ability. Without it the game basically treats water subtype as aquatic but from the planes. What's actually kind of odd is that the water types don't treat as aquatic too since every water drake currently out is also aquatic type. It gets weirder if you look at the true dragons for answers since all of them instead take water breathing which gives them the ability to breath water (which most of them already have). Whole thing's kind of a can of worms.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Ah. Interesting.

I was just going off the Water subtype (which says you can breathe underwater) and then a normal drake breathes air so if you combine the two you get both.

*shrugs*

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:

Ah. Interesting.

I was just going off the Water subtype (which says you can breathe underwater) and then a normal drake breathes air so if you combine the two you get both.

*shrugs*

Yeah I figured. Unfortunately, with the rules as they are types only tell you if something breathes or not, not what it's breathing. That's why fish have the aquatic type since it's what gives them their water breathing mechanically. It's not something we usually have to think about since a lot of examples that spring to mind are either real world creatures or based on them but once we start getting into weird fantasy stuff like water breathing, lightning spewing, gold hording, lizard monsters things start straining a little lol.


What is this Psychic SLA?

Take 10 on Saves is interesting, is that before choosing to roll, like normal Take 10? Or you can choose to use it after seeing roll?
The latter kind of makes more sense for 1/day ability, unlike normal Take 10 which is unlimited.

I wonder if you have a forced re-roll curse on you,
if choosing to Take 10 on a Save would allow you to just get 10?
(either because no roll happens, or both "rolls" are treated as 10, since it's just one Save)?


Rysky wrote:
EltonJ wrote:
Rysky wrote:

I think the Linnorm Draconic Heritage is best in my unbiased opinion.

You hit me? Take -2 to everything except saves.

Yeah, it's after you have been excited about them every month. Sarcasm aside, I'm looking forward to the new bloodlines in the book and the fighter archetype sounds interesting.

(You missed the sarcasm in my post then when I said "unbiased" :3)

Yeah, the new bloodline stuff is fun.

Yeah, I'm going to use them in Dragonborn of Phaeselis, and even the new archetypes will go in there.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:

Yippee for Drake Companions! Dragonheir Scion (might be my first actual fighter character!)!

So much Draconic goodness!

Still have not seen details on the Chymist archetype...

They're based out of Kaer Maga, their Mutagen is STR focused and gives natural attacks, they must apply the explosive breath discovery to all their bombs, and gain Draconic resistances and immunities.
That sounds like fun! What features get altered/replaced?
Alters Mutagen (and can't take Mutagen discoveries) and replaces the discoveries at 2nd, 12th, and 16th, Throw Anything, Poison Resistance, Poison Use, and Swift Poisoning.

Thanks! This is definitely something I'm interested in trying out.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Quandary wrote:

What is this Psychic SLA?

Take 10 on Saves is interesting, is that before choosing to roll, like normal Take 10? Or you can choose to use it after seeing roll?
The latter kind of makes more sense for 1/day ability, unlike normal Take 10 which is unlimited.

I wonder if you have a forced re-roll curse on you,
if choosing to Take 10 on a Save would allow you to just get 10?
(either because no roll happens, or both "rolls" are treated as 10, since it's just one Save)?

Either detect psychic significance or telekinetic projectile once each day.

It's before you roll (and I missed this earlier, but only against spells)

I'm not quite sure how you're getting the just 10 but I would assume you could take 10 on one of the rolls. So it would probably be more effective to just roll, and then for reroll take 10 if your first was bad.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Gisher wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:

Yippee for Drake Companions! Dragonheir Scion (might be my first actual fighter character!)!

So much Draconic goodness!

Still have not seen details on the Chymist archetype...

They're based out of Kaer Maga, their Mutagen is STR focused and gives natural attacks, they must apply the explosive breath discovery to all their bombs, and gain Draconic resistances and immunities.
That sounds like fun! What features get altered/replaced?
Alters Mutagen (and can't take Mutagen discoveries) and replaces the discoveries at 2nd, 12th, and 16th, Throw Anything, Poison Resistance, Poison Use, and Swift Poisoning.
Thanks! This is definitely something I'm interested in trying out.

Np :3


Kalindlara wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Fair enough. I was hoping Kal had something to add.
Hopefully she does ^w^

I do! There was the one thing... and the other thing... um...

Tell you what - I'll get back to you once I've read it a couple more times. ^_^

Fair enough Kal. It doesn't have to be now or near future. Just you know, future.

Paizo Employee Pathfinder Society Lead Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Secret Wizard wrote:
I'm putting up mentally an Iroran Paladin of Apsu (thank you, whoever forgot to add a deity requirement on the archetype) who uses Linnorm Style along with Lay on Hands to take in punishment and quickly restore the damage.

I regret much!

Paizo Employee Designer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
PRD wrote:
Water Subtype: This subtype is usually used for outsiders with a connection to the Elemental Plane of Water. Creatures with the water subtype always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. A water creature can breathe underwater and can usually breathe air as well. Water creatures treat the Swim skill as a class skill.


Don't worry Mister Compton. I regret I leave my closet door open and 4 Skeletal knights from Sithicus came riding through my room.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
John Compton wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
I'm putting up mentally an Iroran Paladin of Apsu (thank you, whoever forgot to add a deity requirement on the archetype) who uses Linnorm Style along with Lay on Hands to take in punishment and quickly restore the damage.
I regret much!

Hey, Irori's not the only Paladin deity that monk-esque flavor works for.


Yeah, Iroran Paladin of Apsu with Ascetic Style (quarterstaff) is super fun.


Rysky wrote:

Actually looking over dragon types (which, outside of Linnorms I haven't really done) the ones who do have a matching breath attack (fire and cold) gain immunities but the others,

Aether gains a magic bite.

Water doesn't have a designated breath (Black dragons gain acid, Bronze gains electricity).

Neither does Earth (Blue has electricity, Copper gets Acid)

Air doesn't have any Core dragons though a bunch do have Electrical attacks.

So saying that they can be killed by "their own" element is kinda a misnomer.

Green Dragons are Air subtype, normally. Does that not apply to the Drake?

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Unless I'm reading it wrong, drake companions seem woefully underpowered compared to animal companions; and that's before you take into account the huge cost of class features you need to pay to get one!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They get a lot special abilities that animals do not and they are more intelligent. They start with better skill points, plus you can boost there mental stats even higher.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
They get a lot special abilities that animals do not and they are more intelligent. They start with better skill points, plus you can boost there mental stats even higher.

Not to mention the size increases.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
The Golux wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Actually looking over dragon types (which, outside of Linnorms I haven't really done) the ones who do have a matching breath attack (fire and cold) gain immunities but the others,

Aether gains a magic bite.

Water doesn't have a designated breath (Black dragons gain acid, Bronze gains electricity).

Neither does Earth (Blue has electricity, Copper gets Acid)

Air doesn't have any Core dragons though a bunch do have Electrical attacks.

So saying that they can be killed by "their own" element is kinda a misnomer.

Green Dragons are Air subtype, normally. Does that not apply to the Drake?

Drakes are neither Metallic nor Chromatic, but you are correct, I missed that about Greens. My bad.

That being said their breath weapon is acid (chlorine gas if you want to be flavorful), there is no Air metallic dragon, and the other Air type dragons tend to have electrical breath attacks.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
They get a lot special abilities that animals do not and they are more intelligent. They start with better skill points, plus you can boost there mental stats even higher.
Not to mention the size increases.

And again, don't forget the MOTHERF&$&ING D12s for HD.


This book, I need it so. I've got a linnorm-blooded character slated to be introduced to the party in a few hours, and this book would have been a godsend when I found out about it yesterday had pdfs been available. :C

So, since I want to make an informed descision on whether or not to stick with my current eldritch scion build or wait till next session and build one of those slick sounding dragonheir scions, could someone possibly expand a bit on it?

Rysky mentioned earlier in the thread that you choose a dragon bloodline for it, and then listed some abilities they get; do the scions get a full sorcerer/bloodrager bloodline that grants these abilities? Or are they independent features? More specifically, would those parts of the archetype stack and scale with sorcerer/dragon disciple levels?

What has been said about the scion sounds pretty great, the bloodlines stacking would be a wonderfully delicious cherry on top. The rest of the book also sounds like awesome fun, I can't wait till I can grab the file Thursday.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
DireToad wrote:

This book, I need it so. I've got a linnorm-blooded character slated to be introduced to the party in a few hours, and this book would have been a godsend when I found out about it yesterday had pdfs been available. :C

So, since I want to make an informed descision on whether or not to stick with my current eldritch scion build or wait till next session and build one of those slick sounding dragonheir scions, could someone possibly expand a bit on it?

Rysky mentioned earlier in the thread that you choose a dragon bloodline for it, and then listed some abilities they get; do the scions get a full sorcerer/bloodrager bloodline that grants these abilities? Or are they independent features? More specifically, would those parts of the archetype stack and scale with sorcerer/dragon disciple levels?

What has been said about the scion sounds pretty great, the bloodlines stacking would be a wonderfully delicious cherry on top. The rest of the book also sounds like awesome fun, I can't wait till I can grab the file Thursday.

They pick a Bloodline, and if they later take another class or anything that gives a Bloodline they have to match.

The abilities can very much be likened to having a Draconic Bloodline from the Sorcerer or Bloodrager, but they are their own distinct abilities and don't build off the other classes' Bloodlines.

The class ability is in fact called Draconic Bloodline, and is treated as a defacto Bloodline ability, so they would meet that requirement for Dragon Disciple, but not any others.


Rysky wrote:
DireToad wrote:

This book, I need it so. I've got a linnorm-blooded character slated to be introduced to the party in a few hours, and this book would have been a godsend when I found out about it yesterday had pdfs been available. :C

So, since I want to make an informed descision on whether or not to stick with my current eldritch scion build or wait till next session and build one of those slick sounding dragonheir scions, could someone possibly expand a bit on it?

Rysky mentioned earlier in the thread that you choose a dragon bloodline for it, and then listed some abilities they get; do the scions get a full sorcerer/bloodrager bloodline that grants these abilities? Or are they independent features? More specifically, would those parts of the archetype stack and scale with sorcerer/dragon disciple levels?

What has been said about the scion sounds pretty great, the bloodlines stacking would be a wonderfully delicious cherry on top. The rest of the book also sounds like awesome fun, I can't wait till I can grab the file Thursday.

They pick a Bloodline, and if they later take another class or anything that gives a Bloodline they have to match.

The abilities can very much be likened to having a Draconic Bloodline from the Sorcerer or Bloodrager, but they are their own distinct abilities and don't build off the other classes' Bloodlines.

The class ability is in fact called Draconic Bloodline, and is treated as a defacto Bloodline ability, so they would meet that requirement for Dragon Disciple, but not any others.

I see. Unfortunate that it can't build on the other bloodlines like that, but I can kinda see why. Since you can see the whole thing, would you consider it worth tossing some Dragonheir Scion into a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple build?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
DireToad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
DireToad wrote:

This book, I need it so. I've got a linnorm-blooded character slated to be introduced to the party in a few hours, and this book would have been a godsend when I found out about it yesterday had pdfs been available. :C

So, since I want to make an informed descision on whether or not to stick with my current eldritch scion build or wait till next session and build one of those slick sounding dragonheir scions, could someone possibly expand a bit on it?

Rysky mentioned earlier in the thread that you choose a dragon bloodline for it, and then listed some abilities they get; do the scions get a full sorcerer/bloodrager bloodline that grants these abilities? Or are they independent features? More specifically, would those parts of the archetype stack and scale with sorcerer/dragon disciple levels?

What has been said about the scion sounds pretty great, the bloodlines stacking would be a wonderfully delicious cherry on top. The rest of the book also sounds like awesome fun, I can't wait till I can grab the file Thursday.

They pick a Bloodline, and if they later take another class or anything that gives a Bloodline they have to match.

The abilities can very much be likened to having a Draconic Bloodline from the Sorcerer or Bloodrager, but they are their own distinct abilities and don't build off the other classes' Bloodlines.

The class ability is in fact called Draconic Bloodline, and is treated as a defacto Bloodline ability, so they would meet that requirement for Dragon Disciple, but not any others.

I see. Unfortunate that it can't build on the other bloodlines like that, but I can kinda see why. Since you can see the whole thing, would you consider it worth tossing some Dragonheir Scion into a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple build?

Eh, the problem with that route is you would have to pick with Bloodline to advance.

Or if your GM is benevolent and lets you advance both go for it!

Lantern Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
They get a lot special abilities that animals do not and they are more intelligent. They start with better skill points, plus you can boost there mental stats even higher.
Not to mention the size increases.
And again, don't forget the MOTHERF@@~ING D12s for HD.

The D12's I give you, but the size increases are nothing to get exited about until level 13.

Indeed, till level 5 you are stuck with a tiny companion with 0ft reach (basically combat useless, not that anyone would fear it's 1d3-1 attacks anyway)

At level 5 you get small, so 1d4+1 damage

Level 9 for medium, you reach the dizzy heights of 1d6+3 damage.

Things drakes *dont* get that help animal companions are inherent bonuses at Str and Dex, share spells (for Druids/Rangers/Paladins) or the ability to wear any armour.

If they were just underpowered companions, it might work just for "oh cool I got a dragon" value, but at the cost to your main character (for example the shaman loses its *primary* spirit, Cavaliers lose nearly everything) you will struggle....

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Dancingweasel wrote:

The D12's I give you, but the size increases are nothing to get exited about until level 13.

Indeed, till level 5 you are stuck with a tiny companion with 0ft reach (basically combat useless, not that anyone would fear it's 1d3-1 attacks anyway)

At level 5 you get small, so 1d4+1 damage

Level 9 for medium, you reach the dizzy heights of 1d6+3 damage.

Things drakes *dont* get that help animal companions are inherent bonuses at Str and Dex, share spells (for Druids/Rangers/Paladins) or the ability to wear any armour.

If they were just underpowered companions, it might work just for "oh cool I got a dragon" value, but at the cost to your main character (for example the shaman loses its *primary* spirit, Cavaliers lose nearly everything) you will struggle....

Uh, at each size increase they get a +4 to STR and +2 CON and NA, with addition to their normal stat boosts every 5 levels.

And they can take feats so they could armor like ACs (unless there's some special rule I missed where ACs can automatically wear armor without needing feats).

And Cavaliers don't lose nearly everything, just Tactician and Banner. And the other's don't lose Share Spells either.


Rysky wrote:
DireToad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
DireToad wrote:

This book, I need it so. I've got a linnorm-blooded character slated to be introduced to the party in a few hours, and this book would have been a godsend when I found out about it yesterday had pdfs been available. :C

So, since I want to make an informed descision on whether or not to stick with my current eldritch scion build or wait till next session and build one of those slick sounding dragonheir scions, could someone possibly expand a bit on it?

Rysky mentioned earlier in the thread that you choose a dragon bloodline for it, and then listed some abilities they get; do the scions get a full sorcerer/bloodrager bloodline that grants these abilities? Or are they independent features? More specifically, would those parts of the archetype stack and scale with sorcerer/dragon disciple levels?

What has been said about the scion sounds pretty great, the bloodlines stacking would be a wonderfully delicious cherry on top. The rest of the book also sounds like awesome fun, I can't wait till I can grab the file Thursday.

They pick a Bloodline, and if they later take another class or anything that gives a Bloodline they have to match.

The abilities can very much be likened to having a Draconic Bloodline from the Sorcerer or Bloodrager, but they are their own distinct abilities and don't build off the other classes' Bloodlines.

The class ability is in fact called Draconic Bloodline, and is treated as a defacto Bloodline ability, so they would meet that requirement for Dragon Disciple, but not any others.

I see. Unfortunate that it can't build on the other bloodlines like that, but I can kinda see why. Since you can see the whole thing, would you consider it worth tossing some Dragonheir Scion into a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple build?

Eh, the problem with that route is you would have to pick with Bloodline to advance.

Or if your GM is benevolent and lets you advance both go for it!

Ah, I read that as DD couldn't advance the Dragonheir bloodline. If it can, then Hmmm, there is potential for my GM letting it all advance advance as one bloodline (the campaign is pretty high powered; at least one PC has died in pretty much every combat we've been in for the last while, and we've got path of war in our party). This could be interesting. I guess I'll be asking for an extension after all. Or at least potential for a complete build retcon.

Hm, getting more excited to get my eyes on this book. Can it just be Thursday today?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
DireToad wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Eh, the problem with that route is you would have to pick which Bloodline you wanted to advance.

Or if your GM is benevolent and lets you advance both go for it!

Ah, I read that as DD couldn't advance the Dragonheir bloodline. If it can, then Hmmm, there is potential for my GM letting it all advance advance as one bloodline (the campaign is pretty high powered; at least one PC has died in pretty much every combat we've been in for the last while, and we've got path of war in our party). This could be interesting. I guess I'll be asking for an extension after all. Or at least potential for a complete build retcon.

Hm, getting more excited to get my eyes on this book. Can it just be Thursday today?

Oops, sorry about that, made my response a bit more clear :3

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:

Uh, at each size increase they get a +4 to STR and +2 CON and NA, with addition to their normal stat boosts every 5 levels.

And they can take feats so they could armor like ACs (unless there's some special rule I missed where ACs can automatically wear armor without needing feats).

And Cavaliers don't lose nearly everything, just Tactician and Banner. And the other's don't lose Share Spells either.

From tiny to medium - ie level 9 (PFS levels) = 2 bumps which is +8 Str, -4 Dex, +4 Con to a total of Str 16, Dex 13, Con, 15 (plus 1 ability score increase at level 5 and a second at level 10) this is not great.

It specifically says on page 22 that drakes refuse to wear any armour ever.

The "Drake companion" class feature replaces natures bond. Share spells is part of natures bond - specifically gained in the AC advancement chart at level 1. Drakes do not get this. Neither do they get link, evasion, devotion etc that the AC gets.

I can live with drakes being mediocre (which they are) just don't think the price in class features should be so high

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Dancingweasel wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Uh, at each size increase they get a +4 to STR and +2 CON and NA, with addition to their normal stat boosts every 5 levels.

And they can take feats so they could armor like ACs (unless there's some special rule I missed where ACs can automatically wear armor without needing feats).

And Cavaliers don't lose nearly everything, just Tactician and Banner. And the other's don't lose Share Spells either.

From tiny to medium - ie level 9 (PFS levels) = 2 bumps which is +8 Str, -4 Dex, +4 Con to a total of Str 16, Dex 13, Con, 15 (plus 1 ability score increase at level 5 and a second at level 10) this is not great.

It specifically says on page 22 that drakes refuse to wear any armour ever.

The "Drake companion" class feature replaces natures bond. Share spells is part of natures bond - specifically gained in the AC advancement chart at level 1. Drakes do not get this. Neither do they get link, evasion, devotion etc that the AC gets.

And then from Medium to Large, and then from Large to Huge. And can fly, and possibly swim, or burrow and can bite ghosts, and can get a breath weapon.

Ah, okies. Missed that, that's mitigated though by the NA increases (both from advancement and increasing size) far outweigh manufactured armor.

Ah, my bad. Was looking at what all the archetypes replaced and didn't see share spells replaced (thought it was a druid ability separate from the bond).

Lantern Lodge

Rysky wrote:
Dancingweasel wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Uh, at each size increase they get a +4 to STR and +2 CON and NA, with addition to their normal stat boosts every 5 levels.

And they can take feats so they could armor like ACs (unless there's some special rule I missed where ACs can automatically wear armor without needing feats).

And Cavaliers don't lose nearly everything, just Tactician and Banner. And the other's don't lose Share Spells either.

From tiny to medium - ie level 9 (PFS levels) = 2 bumps which is +8 Str, -4 Dex, +4 Con to a total of Str 16, Dex 13, Con, 15 (plus 1 ability score increase at level 5 and a second at level 10) this is not great.

It specifically says on page 22 that drakes refuse to wear any armour ever.

The "Drake companion" class feature replaces natures bond. Share spells is part of natures bond - specifically gained in the AC advancement chart at level 1. Drakes do not get this. Neither do they get link, evasion, devotion etc that the AC gets.

And then from Medium to Large, and then from Large to Huge. And can fly, and possibly swim, or burrow and can bite ghosts, and can get a breath weapon.

Ah, okies. Missed that, that's mitigated though by the NA increases (both from advancement and increasing size) far outweigh manufactured armor.

Ah, my bad. Was looking at what all the archetypes replaced and didn't see share spells replaced (thought it was a druid ability separate from the bond).

Animal companions get comparable NA bonuses, less of a hit on Dex (for Dex bonus to AC) and can wear manufactured armour that stacks with the NA

Fair play on the share spells :-)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Dancingweasel wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Dancingweasel wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Uh, at each size increase they get a +4 to STR and +2 CON and NA, with addition to their normal stat boosts every 5 levels.

And they can take feats so they could armor like ACs (unless there's some special rule I missed where ACs can automatically wear armor without needing feats).

And Cavaliers don't lose nearly everything, just Tactician and Banner. And the other's don't lose Share Spells either.

From tiny to medium - ie level 9 (PFS levels) = 2 bumps which is +8 Str, -4 Dex, +4 Con to a total of Str 16, Dex 13, Con, 15 (plus 1 ability score increase at level 5 and a second at level 10) this is not great.

It specifically says on page 22 that drakes refuse to wear any armour ever.

The "Drake companion" class feature replaces natures bond. Share spells is part of natures bond - specifically gained in the AC advancement chart at level 1. Drakes do not get this. Neither do they get link, evasion, devotion etc that the AC gets.

And then from Medium to Large, and then from Large to Huge. And can fly, and possibly swim, or burrow and can bite ghosts, and can get a breath weapon.

Ah, okies. Missed that, that's mitigated though by the NA increases (both from advancement and increasing size) far outweigh manufactured armor.

Ah, my bad. Was looking at what all the archetypes replaced and didn't see share spells replaced (thought it was a druid ability separate from the bond).

Animal companions get comparable NA bonuses, less of a hit on Dex (for Dex bonus to AC) and can wear manufactured armour that stacks with the NA

Fair play on the share spells :-)

You'd just have to actually get them into the armor first. Have you ever tried to put clothes on an animal? XD


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's a children's book on what if animals tried to wear clothes. (look at image two)

It is hilarious, especially the chicken laying an egg in a pair of trousers. :-)

edit: found better link with the chicken image. :-)

Lantern Lodge

Rysky wrote:
Dancingweasel wrote:
Rysky wrote:

Uh, at each size increase they get a +4 to STR and +2 CON and NA, with addition to their normal stat boosts every 5 levels.

And they can take feats so they could armor like ACs (unless there's some special rule I missed where ACs can automatically wear armor without needing feats).

And Cavaliers don't lose nearly everything, just Tactician and Banner. And the other's don't lose Share Spells either.

From tiny to medium - ie level 9 (PFS levels) = 2 bumps which is +8 Str, -4 Dex, +4 Con to a total of Str 16, Dex 13, Con, 15 (plus 1 ability score increase at level 5 and a second at level 10) this is not great.

It specifically says on page 22 that drakes refuse to wear any armour ever.

The "Drake companion" class feature replaces natures bond. Share spells is part of natures bond - specifically gained in the AC advancement chart at level 1. Drakes do not get this. Neither do they get link, evasion, devotion etc that the AC gets.

And then from Medium to Large, and then from Large to Huge. And can fly, and possibly swim, or burrow and can bite ghosts, and can get a breath weapon.

Ah, okies. Missed that, that's mitigated though by the NA increases (both from advancement and increasing size) far outweigh manufactured armor.

Ah, my bad. Was looking at what all the archetypes replaced and didn't see share spells replaced (thought it was a druid ability separate from the bond).


Someone who has the book already, can I get an opinion on the Imperial bloodlines? That's one of the things I'm looking forward to most, but I'm stuck waiting until thursday at Gencon to acquire my own copy, pdf or otherwise.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
FlySkyHigh wrote:
Someone who has the book already, can I get an opinion on the Imperial bloodlines? That's one of the things I'm looking forward to most, but I'm stuck waiting until thursday at Gencon to acquire my own copy, pdf or otherwise.

The arcana gives you bonus when you cast spells against shaken, frightened, and panicked creatures.

Some of the breath attacks deal piercing or bashing instead of a element.

The Heritage Feat ability gives your allies a bonus against fear and your enemies a penalty vs it, useable a certain number of times per day.

The Draconic Manifestation ability gives you a bonus to Intimidate and makes you immune to fear effects for a certain number of rounds per day.


Rysky wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:
Someone who has the book already, can I get an opinion on the Imperial bloodlines? That's one of the things I'm looking forward to most, but I'm stuck waiting until thursday at Gencon to acquire my own copy, pdf or otherwise.

The arcana gives you bonus when you cast spells against shaken, frightened, and panicked creatures.

Some of the breath attacks deal piercing or bashing instead of a element.

The Heritage Feat ability gives your allies a bonus against fear and your enemies a penalty vs it, useable a certain number of times per day.

The Draconic Manifestation ability gives you a bonus to Intimidate and makes you immune to fear effects for a certain number of rounds per day.

Do they get wings?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Since the dragon chemist can't take mutagen discoveries, does its mutagen scale? What natural attacks does it get? I assume a bite and 2 claws but just in case.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Nutcase Entertainment wrote:
Rysky wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:
Someone who has the book already, can I get an opinion on the Imperial bloodlines? That's one of the things I'm looking forward to most, but I'm stuck waiting until thursday at Gencon to acquire my own copy, pdf or otherwise.

The arcana gives you bonus when you cast spells against shaken, frightened, and panicked creatures.

Some of the breath attacks deal piercing or bashing instead of a element.

The Heritage Feat ability gives your allies a bonus against fear and your enemies a penalty vs it, useable a certain number of times per day.

The Draconic Manifestation ability gives you a bonus to Intimidate and makes you immune to fear effects for a certain number of rounds per day.

Do they get wings?

Not in and of itself (which makes sense since Imperial Dragons don't have wings).

But you would still gain them from the Sorcerer Bloodline if you have that (which again, is odd, since Imperials don't have wings...).

Silver Crusade

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jedi8187 wrote:
Since the dragon chemist can't take mutagen discoveries, does its mutagen scale? What natural attacks does it get? I assume a bite and 2 claws but just in case.

It does.

And yeah, bite/claw/claw


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
Since the dragon chemist can't take mutagen discoveries, does its mutagen scale? What natural attacks does it get? I assume a bite and 2 claws but just in case.

It does.

And yeah, bite/claw/claw

Great thanks.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
jedi8187 wrote:
Rysky wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:
Since the dragon chemist can't take mutagen discoveries, does its mutagen scale? What natural attacks does it get? I assume a bite and 2 claws but just in case.

It does.

And yeah, bite/claw/claw

Great thanks.

Np.

Dark Archive

Hmm. How does the Scaled Fist look at 1st level? Do they switch out Stunning Fist for anything? Do they get different bonus feats?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm a bit curious what the various imperial bloodlines do, especially for blood rager.

When it says the Dragonheir Scion gets a bloodline, is it sorcerer or blood rager?

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Craig Tierney wrote:
Hmm. How does the Scaled Fist look at 1st level? Do they switch out Stunning Fist for anything? Do they get different bonus feats?

They keep Stunning fist, which is good because they add the Dragon Style feats to their bonus feats. They also add Dazzling Display and some feats that follow DD. They also get a mediocre breath weapon eventually.


Rysky wrote:
Nutcase Entertainment wrote:
Rysky wrote:
FlySkyHigh wrote:
Someone who has the book already, can I get an opinion on the Imperial bloodlines? That's one of the things I'm looking forward to most, but I'm stuck waiting until thursday at Gencon to acquire my own copy, pdf or otherwise.

The arcana gives you bonus when you cast spells against shaken, frightened, and panicked creatures.

Some of the breath attacks deal piercing or bashing instead of a element.

The Heritage Feat ability gives your allies a bonus against fear and your enemies a penalty vs it, useable a certain number of times per day.

The Draconic Manifestation ability gives you a bonus to Intimidate and makes you immune to fear effects for a certain number of rounds per day.

Do they get wings?

Not in and of itself (which makes sense since Imperial Dragons don't have wings).

But you would still gain them from the Sorcerer Bloodline if you have that (which again, is odd, since Imperials don't have wings...).

Yeah, I was asking about the Bloodline.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Craig Tierney wrote:
Hmm. How does the Scaled Fist look at 1st level? Do they switch out Stunning Fist for anything? Do they get different bonus feats?

At 1st level all they gain is going off of CHA instead of Wisdom.

They do not switch out Stunning Fist.

They do gain different style feats.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
jedi8187 wrote:

I'm a bit curious what the various imperial bloodlines do, especially for blood rager.

When it says the Dragonheir Scion gets a bloodline, is it sorcerer or blood rager?

They've already been mentioned, it's an alternate Bloodline, not a brand new one. It just alters the arcana for sorcerers and the breath weapon for both them and Bloodragers.

It's its own thing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:

I'm a bit curious what the various imperial bloodlines do, especially for blood rager.

When it says the Dragonheir Scion gets a bloodline, is it sorcerer or blood rager?

They've already been mentioned, it's an alternate Bloodline, not a brand new one. It just alters the arcana for sorcerers and the breath weapon for both them and Bloodragers.

It's its own thing.

Cool. Thanks again

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