A quibble with a particular "energy type"


Rules Discussion


So the argument started with a friend of mine a few sessions ago when my Champion was about to be turned into so much goo by an acid-spitting wolf and I wanted to block the spray with my shield. Now the DM ruled that I could do that even though the rules didn't actually allow for it because acid falls under energy damage and not physical. Which lead me to the question.

Why in the nine hells is Acid labeled as an energy type?


Because it always has , and so acid doesn't need entirely new special rules just for it.


Because like every other energy type it does damage by its contact-based properties, not by force and impact.

Fire, burns.

Cold, freezes.

Electricity, shocks.

Acid, also burns but differently. Perhaps corrodes is more appropriate.

Bludgeoning, strikes with enough force to break/shatter/jar.

Slashing, strikes with enough force and sharpness to divide matter.

Piercing, strikes with force, precision/small targeting, and sharpness to pierce matter.

Acid sounds like it fits in with the first three a lot better than the last three.

Silver Crusade

Theres the 6th level Fighter Feat

REFLEXIVE SHIELD wrote:


You can use your shield to fend off the worst of area effects and other damage. When you Raise your Shield, you gain your shield's circumstance bonus to Reflex saves. If you have the Shield Block reaction, damage you take as a result of a Reflex save can trigger that reaction, even if the damage isn't physical damage.

But that’s just for Reflex attacks, not single targets.


This brings up a question raised (but not answered) elsewhere: is an object's hardness "resistance to all damage"? If so, the example given in the CRB means that energy damage can be reduced by shield block, based on the shield's hardness value.

Resistence page 453 wrote:
"It's possible to have resistance to all damage. When an effect deals damage of multiple types and you have resistance to all damage, apply the resistance to each type of damage separately. If an attack would deal 7 slashing damage and 4 fire damage, resistance 5 to all damage would reduce the slashing damage to 2 and negate the fire damage entirely."
Item Damage page 272 wrote:
An item can be broken or destroyed if it takes enough damage. Every item has a Hardness value. Each time an item takes damage, reduce any damage the item takes by its hardness."

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

In a physics sense, cold is even less "energy" than acid is. Cold isn't actually a thing, it's a lack of energy if anything. IMO just go with it.


Midnight Anarch wrote:

This brings up a question raised (but not answered) elsewhere: is an object's hardness "resistance to all damage"? If so, the example given in the CRB means that energy damage can be reduced by shield block, based on the shield's hardness value.

Resistence page 453 wrote:
"It's possible to have resistance to all damage. When an effect deals damage of multiple types and you have resistance to all damage, apply the resistance to each type of damage separately. If an attack would deal 7 slashing damage and 4 fire damage, resistance 5 to all damage would reduce the slashing damage to 2 and negate the fire damage entirely."
Item Damage page 272 wrote:
An item can be broken or destroyed if it takes enough damage. Every item has a Hardness value. Each time an item takes damage, reduce any damage the item takes by its hardness."

By the rules you quoted, Hardness isn't Resistance to all damage. It's Hardness. Which reduces the damage an object takes any time it takes damage. No reference to the Resistance rules. (similarly, effects that ignore or reduce resistance don't apply, it seems)


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Edge93 wrote:
By the rules you quoted, Hardness isn't Resistance to all damage. It's Hardness. Which reduces the damage an object takes any time it takes damage. No reference to the Resistance rules. (similarly, effects that ignore or reduce resistance don't apply, it seems)

Sure, but does it reduce damage in the same way that resistance to all damage does (i.e., to each type separately)? It seems an awful lot like Hardness is just a type of "resistance to all" and might reasonably be treated the same for determining how damage is reduced.

It should be noted that shield block's trigger requires a "physical attack" but that would seem satisfied by a wolf doing slash and acid damage with its bite. Would you argue that hardness should only apply to the slash damage, in that case?

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

I also read it that Hardness applies to all types of physical (ie non mental) damage.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Midnight Anarch wrote:

This brings up a question raised (but not answered) elsewhere: is an object's hardness "resistance to all damage"? If so, the example given in the CRB means that energy damage can be reduced by shield block, based on the shield's hardness value.

Resistence page 453 wrote:
"It's possible to have resistance to all damage. When an effect deals damage of multiple types and you have resistance to all damage, apply the resistance to each type of damage separately. If an attack would deal 7 slashing damage and 4 fire damage, resistance 5 to all damage would reduce the slashing damage to 2 and negate the fire damage entirely."
Item Damage page 272 wrote:
An item can be broken or destroyed if it takes enough damage. Every item has a Hardness value. Each time an item takes damage, reduce any damage the item takes by its hardness."

Wait, now Im confused. In the example above my expectation is that the shield and the wielder would both take 6 damage (assuming a hardness of 5).

Does the quote above suggest that the hardness would be applied separately to each damage type so that they both take only 2 damage? If so, then shields just got a lot better than I assumed.


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Danbala wrote:
Midnight Anarch wrote:

This brings up a question raised (but not answered) elsewhere: is an object's hardness "resistance to all damage"? If so, the example given in the CRB means that energy damage can be reduced by shield block, based on the shield's hardness value.

Resistence page 453 wrote:
"It's possible to have resistance to all damage. When an effect deals damage of multiple types and you have resistance to all damage, apply the resistance to each type of damage separately. If an attack would deal 7 slashing damage and 4 fire damage, resistance 5 to all damage would reduce the slashing damage to 2 and negate the fire damage entirely."
Item Damage page 272 wrote:
An item can be broken or destroyed if it takes enough damage. Every item has a Hardness value. Each time an item takes damage, reduce any damage the item takes by its hardness."

Wait, now Im confused. In the example above my expectation is that the shield and the wielder would both take 6 damage (assuming a hardness of 5).

Does the quote above suggest that the hardness would be applied separately to each damage type so that they both take only 2 damage? If so, then shields just got a lot better than I assumed.

Your initial assumption is correct. Unlike with Weakness and Resistance, any given attack is treated as a single instance of receiving damage for the purpose of how Hardness is applied (there's no such thing as Hardness to certain types of damage only, and the Resistance rules are never referenced by Hardness, so there's no grounds for it to work as in the second example).

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