Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Intrigue (PFRPG)
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Words Cut Deep

In the right setting, a single scathing word can prove deadlier than a poisoned dagger. Behind the scenes of heroic battles and magical realms lies a seething underbelly of danger and deception. This world of intrigue holds endless possibilities for adventure, as heroes duel with words instead of steel, plot daring heists, and engage in battles of wills against relentless nemeses. A high-stakes game of shadows and secrets is yours to master—if you have the wits!

Whether the heroes are taming the blood-soaked back alleys of their favorite metropolis or jockeying for the queen's favor alongside highborn nobles, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue is an invaluable companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue includes:

  • The vigilante, a new character class that lives two lives—that of an unassuming member of the community, and a cloaked crusader with his own agenda!
  • New archetypes for alchemists, bards, druids, hunters, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, slayers, spiritualists, and more!
  • New feats and magic items for characters of all sorts, granting mastery of street-smart combat, impenetrable disguises, and misdirection.
  • Dozens of spells to manipulate tense social settings, whether to reveal adversaries' secrets or hide the truth.
  • A complete system of influence, providing new goals and rewards to challenge players and link their fortunes to nonplayer characters and organizations.
  • Systems and advice to help Game Masters introduce a variety of new encounters into their games­—daring heists, extended pursuits, and tense searches for buried secrets.
  • Rules for social combat and verbal duels, allowing characters to use words as weapons to sway hearts and humiliate foes.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-826-7

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A Must-Have for Heavy RP Games

5/5

Okay, let's get into Ultimate Intrigue! As the title implies, the purpose of this book is to help flesh out more subtle elements of the game: things like spreading rumors, rallying a crowd, stealing secrets, and other classic cloak-and-dagger stuff. I've used bits and pieces of it in previous campaigns, but read through it carefully (and incorporated a fair bit of it) for my current Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign, as that adventure path is designed around urban political strife. Boiled down to brass tacks, the book is a 256 page hardcover comprised of six chapters. The full-colour artwork is very strong throughout, and the cover is great (though Merisiel's legs are like three times longer than her torso!). There's a very short two-page introduction that summarises each chapter--which is what I'm going to do anyway.

Chapter 1 is "Classes" (60 pages). The big deal here is a new base case, the Vigilante. The concept is that the character has both a normal (social) identity and a masked identity, with certain class options only working while in the associated guise. There are also several safeguards to help keep anyone from figuring out that Bruce Wayne is really Batman. I have a Vigilante character in Pathfinder Society, and one of my players runs one in Curse of the Crimson Throne. I think the class is perfect for an urban campaign mostly set in a single city (especially with lots room for intrigue), but it doesn't work as well with the more traditional "travelling adventuring party" campaign. It's a bit too obvious when five newcomers arrive in town, only for one of them to "disappear" and a new costumed avenger show up. I know there are also some gamers who dislike what can seem like the awkward introduction of comic book super heroes into their fantasy role-playing. For me, I think the concept works well--though as I said, only in particular types of campaigns.

A large chunk of the chapter is devoted to new archetypes for other classes. More specifically, alchemists, bards, cavaliers, druids, inquisitors, investigators, mesmerists, rangers, rogues, skalds, spiritualists, swashbucklers, and vigilantes get some love. Frankly, a lot of the archetypes are fairly forgettable, but there are exceptions--for example, a Daring General Cavalier would be great in military campaigns, the Dandy Ranger could be really useful in an urban campaign, and a couple of the vigilante archetypes are perfect if you want to play the Hulk or Spider-Man. Although the rogue archetypes aren't very good, there are several excellent rogue talents that focus on making the character harder to track through divination, etc. It's worth nothing that this book came out during the period when the hardcover line was still setting-neutral, so there won't be any Golarion-specific flavour with the archetypes (for better or worse depending on your preferences).

Chapter 2 is "Feats" (24 pages). There's something like 110 new feats in the chapter, and probably something for everyone. Given the book's theme, many of the feats are related to sneaking around, hiding and disguising spells, stealing stuff, making plans, figuring out when you're being to lied to, etc. A few that I particularly like include Brilliant Planner (giving you the chance to have just what you need just when you need it), Call Truce (giving a slim chance to actually end combat peacefully when its underway), and Drunkard's Recovery (silly but fun). A couple of important feats are Conceal Spell (which hides the pesky manifestations that spells create in Pathfinder) and Fencing Grace (adding Dex to damage with rapiers, a favourite of swashbucklers everywhere). Overall, I thought the options presented were well-written and plausible in terms of desirability.

Chapter 3 is "Mastering Intrigue" (68 pages). This is probably the most important chapter in the book for GMs. It offers tons of useful advice, as well as clarification on some tricky game mechanics, to help run intrigue-based games. The pages about how common magic spells can be handled while still preserving mysteries, secrets, and misdirection is pure gold. The chapter also introduces seven new rules sub-systems, any or all of which can be incorporated into a campaign to flesh out certain aspects of gameplay. "Influence" is a sub-system that deepens the process of persuading a person or organisation to support you. Instead of a simple single Dipomacy check, PCs need to make certain skill checks to learn a person's interests and weaknesses, and then other skill checks to take advantage of what they've learned. The process operates through multiple phases of tracked successes and failures, and can be tied to mechanical favours and benefits. It's become a very popular facet of many Pathfinder Society scenarios, and I think it's a pretty clever way to handle things--though it can be a bit clunky at first. "Heists" is a sub-system that contains some excellent advice to GMs on how to structure things so players don't obsess over unimportant trivia and are willing to violate that old canard of "don't split the party." "Infiltration" contains some quick advice, but that's about it. "Leadership" deepens the feat of the same name, adding lots of rules for interacting with other sub-systems both in this book and in Ultimate Campaign. I'm personally still not persuaded that the Leadership feat chain is a good inclusion to the game. "Nemeses" is all about adding a recurring villain; I think it's trying to systematise something that could be handled just fine without it. Though there are some fun suggestions on evil plots to foil. "Pursuit" is a little like the Chase sub-system from the GameMastery Guide but stretched out over hours and days cross-country instead of in minutes through alleyways. I could imagine using it. "Research" is probably my favourite of the sub-systems, and one I've used in multiple campaigns. In essence, it gives the PCs a reason to use things like libraries and archives by giving them bonuses to their Knowledge checks, but then makes gaining different thresholds of information the result of multiple successful checks. Overall, a great chapter--I wish the Influence and Research sub-systems had been in the Core Rulebook, because they really add a lot to the non-combat aspects of the game.

Chapter 4 is "Social Combat" (25 pages). The idea here is to present GMs with options on how to handle social conflicts--things like debates, trials, cutting repartee, etc. There's also a "verbal duels" sub-system. I'm just not sure about it--it's something I'd have to see in practice. However, a really useful part of the chapter is advice to the GM on how to handle the various social skills in the game--Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive--as well as the intrigue skills like Disguise, Perception, and Stealth. The advice here is excellent, and I just stopped in the middle of this review to reread it.

Chapter 5 is "Spells" (40 pages). You can judge from the length of the chapter that there's a ton of new spells, and every spellcasting class will find something. One of the fun things the chapter introduces is a new "ruse" descriptor for spells, which means the spell is easily mistaken for another even by observers trained in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana). It's a good way to mislead folks who have played way too much Pathfinder. There are some really clever spells in this section, with a couple of my favourites including false resurrection (instead of bringing back a soul, you stuff a demon into the body!) and the hilarious shamefully overdressed.

Chapter 6 is "Gear and Magic Items" (22 pages). There are some new mundane pieces of equipment (weapons like the cool wrist dart launcher, alchemical items, etc.) but most of the chapter is new magic items with an intrigue theme. The one that really stuck out at me was the launcher of distraction, which is perfect for assassination attempts because it makes it seem like the attack is coming from somewhere else.

Overall, I think Ultimate Intrigue is an excellent book. It's pretty much a must-have in my opinion for any campaign that's going to involve a lot of role-playing or that moves beyond traditional dungeon crawling and wilderness encounters. Even readers not involved in "intrigue campaigns" per se are sure to find plenty of material they can use.


1/5

Don't get me wrong I love Paizo books, I love their work, and I'm proud to own almost all of their publications.

However, Ultimate Intrigue is the one book I regret buying. It's even more than that, it's the one book i regret they ever published.

We need rules and systems, ok. We need a magic system because magic isn't a real thing. We need a combat system otherwise playing with your grilfriend become home abuse. But we don't need a social system because it's a ROLEPLAYING game. Either you want intrigue heavy campaign and you roleplay them, or you want to dungeon crawl or investigate (that's fine too) and you don't play intrigues. You can even do both and it's great.

Aside from that massive problem, the book suffers from "a turn normal actions into feats/class ability" syndrome. I can't count the number of time where players made me fighters to wizards or rogues with a dual identity. We didn't need the Vigilante, and still don't. And I loved when wizard use to get clever and ask for linguistics/bluff roll to blend a spell into a phrase. Now you need a feat for it. Thanks, Ultimate Intrigue. If that was not enough, some of these nonsense feat are built in feat tax chains.

But the one thing I hate the most about this book is the stupid FAQ it bestowed upon us to promote itself (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza). That makes a whole school of magic (illusion) utterly useless, and destroys a lot of others (enchantment).

Now I know I can just refuse to use it. But i use to love pathfinder for the clarity and perfect sense with out need to houserule much.

Now it's gone.


I'm tired of paizo trying to stuff this book down our face

1/5

If I was playing a home campaign this book might be more fitting,

For society play this verbal debate and other ideas for this book really bog down the game play. I like social aspect of games and role playing but as I said society play it slows the game way down to try and get people up to snuff on the mechanics


An amazing new class in a hit and miss supplement

4/5

So, Ultimate Intrigue took a long time for me to come to a complete opinion on.

The Vigilante class introduced in this book is, in my opinion, easily the best non-spellcasting class Paizo has ever created. It breaks up its social options and combat options in such a way that you have a great character able to participate in all areas of the game without having to choose whether you want to be competent in combat or in the myriad other facets of the game like exploration, social encounters, etc. It has deep and well-designed talents that allow you to pick any of a variety of different ways to participate in combat, with or without weapons, and numerous tools for allowing players to influence the story with safe houses, contacts, and more.

At PAX Prime 2016 I had the opportunity to visit Paizo's Pathfinder demo area and play their pregenerated vigilante character. I honestly didn't expect it to go terribly well; after all, the vigilante is a class built around balancing two identities and moving between different social strata, so you'd think that this would require a more controlled environment where you know the other players in advance and have time to plan out how your character fits into the game world with your GM ahead of time, right? Turns out, I was wrong. The vigilante class is well-crafted enough that even while playing a 1st level pregen I was able to easily deal with situations in and out of combat, and it took me about 60 seconds of conversation to establish with the group that I had a secret identity they were privy to and might need them to cover for my character from time to time if he needed to swap identities. It didn't hurt matters that the only downside to anyone learning a vigilante's secret identity is that, well, they know his or her secret identity. You can go all Tony Stark if you want, announce that you are Iron Man, and carry on as normal. Very few of the vigilante's abilities actually require you to maintain truly secret identities, and the only real hit you take is that you're a bit easier to find by magical means (though even this can be addressed with clever use of the Safe House Social Talent).

The book also elaborates on the intent behind numerous spells that often prove problematic for GMs in games where they want to have a focus on gritty investigation of mystery, such as the various detect spells, speak with dead, etc.

I think my biggest disappointments with the book, and the reason I can't give it 5 stars, lie in the feats and archetypes. I'll start with the feats, and a bit about why I see most of them as representative of missed opportunities.

To start with, Pathfinder's skill system is heavily dated. When Paizo brought it over from 3.5, they combined a few extraneous skills, but otherwise did little to update things, meaning the core area of the rules covering everything in the game that isn't casting spells or hitting things is now well over a decade old and out of date. Several skills don't even actually work, or work well, as written, have interactions you're just supposed to kind of assume or make up (Ride and Handle Animal are a mess, Stealth requires one to check out FAQs and blog posts online to use as intended, Bluff and Diplomacy have more than a few vague areas and inconsistencies, etc.), so what better book to address, update, and expand these core components of the game than a book about playing skill and intrigue heavy campaigns? Unfortunately, Paizo chose not to go that route, instead relying on feats to stretch skills over their gaps and issues, leading to many of the feats in the this book providing skill uses that I've seen GMs at hundreds of tables houserule as basic functions of those skills to begin with. Instead of formalizing intuitive uses of existing skills into their basic function, they added a feat tax to allow characters to do things many people already thought they could do. While there is a section in the book going over several of the vague areas in a few key skills, these are primarily common sense clarifications instead of the full address the skills could have used.

The archetypes, like many Paizo hardcovers, are all over the place. Some of them are interesting and dynamic, like the Masked Performer bard archetype, some show an attempt at embodying a cool and modern concept but fail to achieve that concept in the actual execution, like the Magical Child vigilante archetype, and some are just plain bad, so obviously terribly designed that you almost wonder if the person who wrote them has ever actually played Pathfinder, like the Brute vigilante archetype.

Now, don't let the above wall of negativity mislead you; there is a lot of great stuff in this book, including perhaps the most inspired and well-crafted class Paizo has ever produced, a class that introduces really interesting design concepts, plays with components of the class chassis we haven't seen classes treat as quite so malleable before, and is a genuinely fun and interesting class to play in and of itself. Despite many of the feats ranging from useless to frustrating, there are still quite a few that are interesting and viable, and while the archetypes are very hit or miss, that's generally true of Paizo books in general and probably shouldn't be held against this one in particular.

My final verdict on Ultimate Intrigue is 4 stars, and a strong recommendation to pick it up, if for no other reason than to add the Vigilante class to your game (though there definitely are other reasons to add this book to your collection).


Pathfinder presents Batman!

4/5

No seriously. The vigilante class is freaking batman. Look at the art for chapter one and for the character. HE'S BATMAN. Of course they also have archetypes if you want to make Hulk, Sailor Moon, even He-Man. With the archetypes from other books the list goes on.
My favorite part, and I cannot wait to test this properly in a game, is the social combat. It works a lot like playing craps or roulette. You get a pool of Determination points which you use to place a bet then you roll off with your social skills check! Seriously it sounds like lots of fun!


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Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:
People have pointed this out. Similarly, their spell list includes the various protection from law spells and dispel law while they should probably have the inverse.

Not switching the spells was for the better- now the archetype stacks with spell-free archetypes.


That is honestly a good point, though it is a weird artifact of how the system works rather than something that is good for the class itself. Ideally they could create a tag for a modified ability that may still be eliminated (like adding extra bonus feats to a list or slightly changing spellcasting), but otherwise I guess that would be a good point not to fiddle on (much like not changing one silly class skill).


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Question: what, exactly, are the differences between using Diplomacy as outlined in the Calling for a Cease Fire subsection of Diplomacy (located the Skills In Conflict section) and using the Call Truce feat?

To me, it seems like the former has no set DC explicitly stated (although it is implied that you would use a base DC equal to 25 [for a hostile creature] or 20 [for an unfriendly creature] + the highest Charisma modifier in the opposing group + any other relevant modifier). The latter has a set DC of 30 + the highest Charisma modifier in the opposing group + any other relevant modifiers. Are there anything else that I missed about the differences between the two?

Also, why is the DC higher for someone who has the feat (including the prerequisites feat, Persuasive)?

It just seems counter-intuitive to me that the feat itself is mechanically harder to accomplish than without the feat. Am I missing anything here?

CB out.

Designer

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Canadian Bakka wrote:

Question: what, exactly, are the differences between using Diplomacy as outlined in the Calling for a Cease Fire subsection of Diplomacy (located the Skills In Conflict section) and using the Call Truce feat?

To me, it seems like the former has no set DC explicitly stated (although it is implied that you would use a base DC equal to 25 [for a hostile creature] or 20 [for an unfriendly creature] + the highest Charisma modifier in the opposing group + any other relevant modifier). The latter has a set DC of 30 + the highest Charisma modifier in the opposing group + any other relevant modifiers. Are there anything else that I missed about the differences between the two?

Also, why is the DC higher for someone who has the feat (including the prerequisites feat, Persuasive)?

It just seems counter-intuitive to me that the feat itself is mechanically harder to accomplish than without the feat. Am I missing anything here?

CB out.

Call Truce lets you usually call for a truce as long as they aren't mind-controlled or losing the upper hand, but calling for a cease-fire otherwise only works if it legitimately sounds like it's in the best interests of the opponents to go for a truce instead of fighting, which won't always be possible. Call Truce's DC is based on the hypothetical possibility of asking for dangerous aid from an unfriendly person (30 + Cha modifier), so it's actually +5 better for you if they're hostile.


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Does that not seem absurdly circuitous, especially for a book that is supposed to be about such things? I mean, the two sections obviously weren't written with the same hand, and the difference is tiny and vague.

Further, your statement isn't even true, that is only a vague suggestion. The book says:

Quote:
In this case, and in other instances of requests made to unfriendly or hostile characters, the GM should consider only allowing such requests that are couched in such a way that they seem to be in the target’s best interests.

Are you saying the feat exists to force the GM's hand in such matters? Though even then it won't, because despite only listing surrender, loss, mind control, or zealotry, Call Truce also offers "GM discretion" or arbitrarily increasing the DC. In practice I don't see the difference.

Let us face it: the feat does nothing. It changes "GM discretion" to "GM discretion." There is really nothing it could do that would not be a silly feat tax on a character wishing to use Diplomacy, as whether a situation works or not is still entirely the GM's discretion in either case and has to be.

Either that or it breaks GM discretion and I can stop rampaging Orcs, ravenous Ghouls, or anything else I can talk to and we are in a "Diplomancer" situation. The middle ground is so vague as to be essentially meaningless, and not referencing each other makes the two sections even worse. Honestly, this sort of thing is one of the biggest issues with the entire book.


Call Truce has a duration of 1 minute or until attacked, whichever is less. The Cease Fire option doesn't have a set duration but I imagine it would probably be the same duration, or at least a couple of rounds for the opposing group to hear the diplomat out. In either case, extending the duration would be a type of request via Diplomacy, no?

Finally, would it be fair to say that in either case, a valid circumstance modifier to the DC for calling a truce/cease fire would be similar to a request that is "giving dangerous aid that could result in punishment?" After all, if you are asking for an evil cleric, via the Call Truce feat, to stand down and allow parley between the adventuring group and the evil cleric's group, wouldn't the evil cleric be going against the dogma of his deity/divine patron by choosing not to continue the battle (assuming neither side has significant combat advantage over each other, whether it be due to spells, number of members, tactical positioning, or even simply due to class or racial abilities)?

Cheers!

CB out.


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Barachiel Shina wrote:
I gotta say, I am really liking the Ruse spells in this book. I hope to see more of them in the future.

I'm glad to hear it! Those were my brainchildren. :D

Kevin Mack wrote:

Have I missed something or do a couple of the feats in the book not really do anything?

specificly the sense assumption/relationship ones since arent they already coverd by the sense motive skill anyway?

Good question! As the author of those two feats, I can't offer official rulings, but I can explain why I wrote them this way. Sense Motive's default "get a hunch" function has generally been interpreted to provide less specific information than these feats do. Note that you don't have to talk about things obviously related to the relationship or your potential lie in order to use the feats; they represent being exceptionally adept at figuring out little clues in just about any interaction that meets their limitations. Without such a feat, you can still improvise that use of the skill as your GM deems appropriate (more below).

Xethik wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

I'm seeing a lot of what I was afraid of here: Rumormonger like options. Options that don't expand the use of skills, bur rather by their existence constrain the use of skills only to people with a feat or special ability- feats skill focused characters don't have to spare.

Determining that two people have a relationship is just a sense motive check, not sense motive and 2 feats. Knowing whether a fib is going to be outrageous or easy is something the player/character should have some idea of before they start spinning their yarn. Aiding someone's disguise with a bluff is just a creative aid another, not a feat. Telling if someone knows how to use that sword at their hip is something fighting types know,

One of the reasons people complain about caster/skill disparity is that the expanding system has expanded the capabilities of magic. "Abilities" that already do what the skill does constrains them and makes just getting a spell to do it an even better option.

Yeah, I hate to agree... but I do. I really love the rules make cool things like these are codified into the rules, but I wish it didn't take a feat to do it.

Expanding the existing skill system or utilizing the skill unlocks would be fantastic.

I guess a good reason to keep it in feats is that it keeps the game simple. As soon as they put rules in for using Sense Motive to determining two people have a relationship, people familiar with that rule may feel that they need to make use of that option whenever a situation arises. It clutters the skill page on the PRD if they include it. It is difficult to find if they don't include it directly on the skill page. At least with them as feats, only the people who took the feat will spam the skill use and it keeps the information contained in a relevant location.

Still, definitely lame for feats to remove something you've been doing without a feat.

My philosophy is that the feat is only there to do these things better. A feat is not an excuse to forbid improvisation—it's a lower bound on how challenging it should be to improvise. By all means, let the player use Sense Motive after a lengthy exchange to guess a relationship or how believable a lie is without a feat. Just consider imposing a penalty or raising the DC such that the feat is worth it, and remember feats often let you accomplish something without as much to work with or without navigating as many roleplaying hurdles. Without the feat, you might be at greater risk of being found out or encountering other challenges.

Thanks for reading!

Anguish wrote:

Tenacious Spell...

Is awesome. Very cool. Excellent for PCs and NPCs alike. I look forward to the look on my players' faces when they dispel some ultra-important buff on a BBEG only to discover it lingers for another 1-4 rounds.

That's mine, too! I'm glad you like it. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
David N Ross wrote:
My philosophy is that the feat is only there to do these things better. A feat is not an excuse to forbid improvisation—it's a lower bound on how challenging it should be to improvise.

Interesting, and I think you're right, particularly when you consider:

Quote:
Normal: What a character who does not have this feat is limited to or restricted from doing. If not having the feat causes no particular drawback, this entry is absent.

So for feats without a normal entry, you're not restricted by not having the feat, it's just not as easy as if you do have it. That might change a few rules arguments.

Community & Digital Content Director

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Removed a post. Suggesting a "Gaydar" feat in this thread is completely inappropriate and not in the spirit of the community we'd like to foster here on paizo.com.

Liberty's Edge

I'm wondering. if the Meta-morph Alchemist has Shape-shifting, mutagens and increased resistances, would it be possible to use shape-shifting in a minor way to give natural weapons(like claws) for a brief period of time.

Also i am in love with the tyrant Archetype. They don't lose very much but they become infinitely more easy to play as a result. Kind of makes me want to play a Griffith character that doesn't then go on to sacrifice the band of loyal followers he has gathered. Because while i might want ungodly powers, I'm not going to put my hand in with the powers of hell unless i can exploit them for my own benefit. Plus people that are loyal are quite useful to me and i don't want to create a Guts chasing after my head.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
David N Ross wrote:


My philosophy is that the feat is only there to do these things better. A feat is not an excuse to forbid improvisation—it's a lower bound on how challenging it should be to improvise. By all means, let the player use Sense Motive after a lengthy exchange to guess a relationship or how believable a lie is without a feat. Just consider imposing a penalty or raising the DC such that the feat is worth it, and remember feats often let you accomplish something without as much to work with or without navigating as many roleplaying hurdles. Without the feat, you might be at greater risk of being found out or encountering other challenges.

That is definitely the best way to handle it; There are definitely a lot of posts countering my statements and I agree that this theoretical issue is almost entirely a non-issue in real play. I don't think any GM would run a game disallowing sorts of things. These feats, especially in non-combat scenarios, will almost definitely be handled fine.

In combat, I could see one GM allowing a player to scoop up nearby mud and hurl it at an enemy as a ranged dirty trick attempt. I could totally see another GM requiring a player to have the Mud in Your Eyes feat (Heroes of the Street). A third may allow it by the Mud in Your Eyes rules, but with a penalty. All GMs are right in my opinion. Is that feat existing a bad thing? No! There should definitely be rules for such a tactic. Should it require a feat? Tough to say for me.

I'm rambling and talking to myself at this point, but it is an interesting design problem to me!


I rather like the item section of this book, very happy with the puzzle box, and weapon special abilities like unseen and liberating.


I have to say that while I like the Mask of Stolen Mien, I do kind of wish it didn't sound so gruesome. Made out of patches of human faces? Sounds like something that Leatherface would run around with.

Okay, there's nothing evil about using it, but rather like the hand of glory, I wonder what sort of funny looks you'd be getting from people when you try using it.


Eric Hinkle wrote:

I have to say that while I like the Mask of Stolen Mien, I do kind of wish it didn't sound so gruesome. Made out of patches of human faces? Sounds like something that Leatherface would run around with.

Okay, there's nothing evil about using it, but rather like the hand of glory, I wonder what sort of funny looks you'd be getting from people when you try using it.

I wonder what sort of funny look you're giving them when you try using it. ;)

Dark Archive

Any chance we'll get additional codes of conduct for the tyrant archetype?

Silver Crusade

DrSwordopolis wrote:
Is "Ready for Anything" the victim of a missing comma, or does the feat really have four prerequisite feats?

I know this doesn't mean anything, but in the book it says, "Prerequisites: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Quick Draw, base attack bonus +6 or uncanny

dodge class feature."

I usually translate a listing of prerequisites listed like this. As you only need one of the listed prerequisites. Seeing as it's listed with nothing but commas till the "or". Now I know my English is pretty bad. But I was under the impression that meant the statement of the prerequisites listed as such meant you need Alertness or Improved Initiative or Lightning reflexes or Quick Draw or base attack bonus +6 or Uncanny Dodge.
Forgive me if this has already been clarified or its just my horrid understanding of the English Language(to be fair it's one of the most complex languages in the world)


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Bryce Kineman wrote:
DrSwordopolis wrote:
Is "Ready for Anything" the victim of a missing comma, or does the feat really have four prerequisite feats?

I know this doesn't mean anything, but in the book it says, "Prerequisites: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Quick Draw, base attack bonus +6 or uncanny

dodge class feature."

I usually translate a listing of prerequisites listed like this. As you only need one of the listed prerequisites. Seeing as it's listed with nothing but commas till the "or". Now I know my English is pretty bad. But I was under the impression that meant the statement of the prerequisites listed as such meant you need Alertness or Improved Initiative or Lightning reflexes or Quick Draw or base attack bonus +6 or Uncanny Dodge.
Forgive me if this has already been clarified or its just my horrid understanding of the English Language(to be fair it's one of the most complex languages in the world)

believe it would have to start with the word "Either" to be any individual prerequisite. As written it seems to be the first 4 feats then base attack bonus +6 or uncanny dodge.

Liberty's Edge

It looks like Ultimate Intrigue is not in Paizo's PRD yet?

Unless I'm just not seeing it, has there been any word on when it might be added?


Marc Radle wrote:

It looks like Ultimate Intrigue is not in Paizo's PRD yet?

Unless I'm just not seeing it, has there been any word on when it might be added?

Abit ago Chris Lambertz said that "PRD updates are currently on hold due to some recent staffing changes."


Paizo, you managed to make perfect archetypes and classes to let us be Captain America, an Bender(Avatar: The Last Airbender), the Incredible Hulk, Batman, Nightwing, Hawkeye/Green Arrow, and even the Punisher.

Don't take this personally, but what happened with Wild Soul? Especially the Arachnid Wild Soul. I was so EXCITED when I looked in this book and saw that archetype. I read through the Arachnid Wild Soul stuff. 2nd level, spider-sense, great start. The 6th level, shooting Tanglefoot bags up to 3 + Con mod times per day. With a 10ft range increment, not 20. Not a "Web Pool" of 10 + 1/2 Vigilante level + Con mod. Just 3 + Con mod. At 12th level(when PFS characters retire or go Seeker) you gain a climb speed and can shoot weblines as ropes. Finally at 18th, I can web swing. 18th level, I have Potions of Fly or Winged Boots. I've never even played a character of 18th level in 3.5 or PF.

I honestly feel like the Wild Soul could've just replaced the 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 8th level Vigilante talents. I would've been a big trade off with losing early Vigilante talents, but the archetype gives you access to some unique things. Or it could've replaced the 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level Social Talents. Or a mix of replacing Social and Vigilante talents so 1 or the 2 isn't getting hit too hard. Or the Wild Soul abilities could've just been extra Vigilante talents that you could choose from. That way you could've put more abilities into the archetype, like attaching weblines to creatures, using Dirty Tricks, disarming foes, and even grabbing unattended objects.

You guys still do incredibly good work. I still very much enjoy Pathfinder, especially when I can make one of my favorite characters, but I'm still shocked by this archetype.

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