Less Nethys! More Ancient Osirioni Pantheon!

I know it's impolite to rant but I'm feeling pretty disgusted about Nethys's prominence within the lore of Osirion.

Yes, I'm aware that Nethys's association with Osirion was made part of the Pathfinder Universe previous to the writers' decision to add a pantheon based on real-life Ancient Egypt.

Yes, I'm aware that knowledge about the pantheon is limited among both players and in-universe characters due to the pantheon leaving Golarion and their description existing in a single Pathfinder Campaign Setting chapter

Yes, I'm aware that some folks don't like being reminded that Earth and its history is technically a part of the Pathfinder Universe.

I. Don't. Care.

It's been years since the writing of Mummy's Mask and while I admit there has not been much focus on Osirion since, it is not an unreasonable demand to wish for class archetypes, boons, feats and traits surrounding the worship of these deities.

The description of Nethys worship doesn't even emphasize an Egyptian aesthetic, regardless of the the deity's origin story as a once-mortal Pharaoh or the deity's Egyptian name. He seems more the patron of mad magical experiments, wizards, and moral unpredictability than a patron guardian of god-kings.

Am I alone in these feelings?

Yes.

You are alone.

I'm so sorry.

You're not alone in your opinion about who nethys is, my own home group often has immoral mages worship him while experimenting with new magic.

However, I also don't see a need for egyptian themed things. I feel like that is a matter of fluff. Give a fighter light armor, a shield, a khopesh, and javelins and you can describe that fighter as "egyptian" all you want.

But I'm in the minority of people who really dislike archetypes. They've taken away class niche and that's not a good feeling for my games.

I tend to prefer the Osirion Pantheon over the core deitys.

So you are not alone.

But i don't like Tombs & Traps. ^^

I would love to see more Egyptian themed archetypes/spells/lore.

I'm a huge fan of the Ancient Osirian pantheon. I've got one PC following Set and another with Bastet.

I'd agree with Bard of Ages that we don't need new mechanical things related to Osirion. Fluff and additions to canon is good with me.

Why don't you oust Pharasma instead? She has much more space you could claim afterwards.

Why don't you oust Pharasma instead? She has much more space you could claim afterwards.

Pharasma did not completely replace the Ancient Osirion Pantheon, nor is the main deity venerated by these new ‘pharaohs’ since your post-ascension.

Yet your worship is so prominent in the area it eclipses the religions of old.

We want Ra, Isis, Anubis, Hathor, Set, Horus and the others!

I know nothing about Nethys as I don't set my games in Golarion. But I'd like to see more Egyptian deities statted out for PF. I know that's very unlikely to happen, but a guy can dream.

One of my current characters is a paladin of Osiris. I'd love more material from Paizo on the ancient Osirion gods.

I still have a hard time separating my fondness for the OsirionEgyptian deities from my long time fondness for 2e Faerun's MulhorandiEgyptian deities, but yeah, count me in as one who would like to see more of them. It'd be neat to see a resurgence in their power and influence during the Starfinder era.

One of my current characters is a paladin of Osiris. I'd love more material from Paizo on the ancient Osirion gods.

I had a Paladin of Osiris once, too!

When I first began playing AD&D in 1985 the first character I rolled up was an Anti-Paladin of Set. Sure, he was Lawful Evil and I was chaotic, but the DM wanted it that way. It worked out well and I played him for years.

Now if only someone like James Jacobs could happen across this page. I think maybe Paizo should put a halt on introducing too many new deities until they flesh out better the ones they already have. Including the Osirion Pantheon

You. Are. Not. Alone.

I have incorporated the pantheon into Osirion for MM just fine - they are regional deities with a narrow interest in only their native-born citizens, enough said.

I have them as an all-but-forgotten old faith that was close to erased by the various takeovers of Osirion by their neighbors throughout the centuries, now veeeery slowly coming back.

I even drafted up a missive on how Anubis, "short-stops," the dead of Osirion birth (wherer they are believers in the pantheon or not) for judgement before they get to Pharasma so there are no conflicts, "in the afterlife."

I made the "old faith" pantheon worship w/unjealous gods.

Instead of being solo-commited to a specific diety; it would not unhead of for a Priest of Osiris to worship, pray and present offerings to Isis upon the birth of his child.

The new faith, you can get specific, but the "old ways" was worship of the entire pantheon.

Isn't there a book coming out about worship of non gods and pantheon and info on osirion dwarves in a few months?

The new faith, you can get specific, but the "old ways" was worship of the entire pantheon.

It took forever to get that concept into my players' heads. They just couldn't wrap their heads around that they could pay homage to more than one deity and not be struck down by lightning. ONE player got it right from the start. But I had to explain it a dozen times, and one of them, like me, is an armchair Egyptologist.

hate to go ans say but any demand is *unreasonable*

and I dont like the osirioni pantheon or Nethys

a single spell....

be like making an Nord alchemist character named Edalphonse Elric become a god of alchemy with a single potion.....

but then it is not my setting either. jsut because I dont want , does not mean that Paizo * should or should not*

also I would not recommend making an official Paizo Nord alchemist character named Edalphonse Elric.

someone might figure it our and might be trouble even more so if you figure out where it came from....

I asked James Jacobs about this:

JiCi wrote:

What actually happened to the Ancient Orision pantheon? I get that one deity can disappear from a religion, but an entire pantheon? That goes back to my previous question about whether or not a deity can die. Furthermore, you have powerful beings like Osiris, Isis, Ra, Set, Horus, Anubis and Nephthys... Pretty sure that it takes more than a political reversal to wipe these deities off the cosmos. Beside, wouldn't they do something to prevent believers from switching faiths?

They still exist, and are still worshiped here and there, but for the most part their worship occurs on different worlds other than Golarion. We talk a lot more about this in the Mummy's Mask Adventure Path if you want to know more.

But I'd like to see more Egyptian deities statted out for PF. I know that's very unlikely to happen, but a guy can dream.

When you say "statted out", I take it you don't mean statted out, but rather the deity blocks from the likes of Inner Sea Faiths, with Deific Obediences, Favoured Weapons, etc?

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

But I'd like to see more Egyptian deities statted out for PF. I know that's very unlikely to happen, but a guy can dream.

When you say "statted out", I take it you don't mean statted out, but rather the deity blocks from the likes of Inner Sea Faiths, with Deific Obediences, Favoured Weapons, etc?

I think he or she means the latter ;)

dysartes wrote:

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

But I'd like to see more Egyptian deities statted out for PF. I know that's very unlikely to happen, but a guy can dream.

When you say "statted out", I take it you don't mean statted out, but rather the deity blocks from the likes of Inner Sea Faiths, with Deific Obediences, Favoured Weapons, etc?

I think he or she means the latter ;)

That's what I was thinking/hoping, too - deities should never be at the mercy of the "If it has stats we can kill it" brigade.

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

But I'd like to see more Egyptian deities statted out for PF. I know that's very unlikely to happen, but a guy can dream.

When you say "statted out", I take it you don't mean statted out, but rather the deity blocks from the likes of Inner Sea Faiths, with Deific Obediences, Favoured Weapons, etc?

Right. I should've been clearer.

I really really think Thoth should be designated as NG, not LN!

There. I have stated my longstanding pet peeve regarding the Ancient Osirian pantheon.

I kind of liked how in the 3.x Green Ronin Publishing release "Hamunaptra" the Egyptian gods were not given alignments at all. Their portfolios and domains helped define them, rather than just an alignment label.

I too wish the Egyptian Deities were more developed in Pathfinder. I wish other historical pantheons were also developed. I would not mind the Gods of Pegana also.

The most glaring mechanical problem is the absence of Deific boons but I still wouldn't mind knowing where the heck Worshipers of this pantheon go in the afterlife. And how these Deities interact with the rest of Pathfinder's Deities.

I too wish the Egyptian Deities were more developed in Pathfinder. I wish other historical pantheons were also developed.

There are still Classical pagans and followers of the ancient Egyptian deities in the real world, not that many but I know some of each, and it does seem better for the game not to get entangled with people's RL religions.

To put it simply, it's not flavor of the month anymore.
Mummy's Mask is long done, so you aren't likely to see much more support for it in a while.
Same reason we're not seeing more support for Tien pantheons, all the racial pantheons outside of core (the greater Elf pantheon and Dwarven pantheon, for instance), better write ups for existing minor gods (there are a handful with little more than a domain line or an appearance in an old Adventure Path, such as Camazotz, Feronia, Erecura, and Easivra), Sargaven/Mwangi gods, or any of the gods briefly mentioned in Distant Shores.

Personally, I'm a fantasy theology fan with Stockholm Syndrome for clerics, so I would love books upon books of gods and lore, but that's a bit much to ask of ask of a major publishing company.

I kind of liked how in the 3.x Green Ronin Publishing release "Hamunaptra" the Egyptian gods were not given alignments at all. Their portfolios and domains helped define them, rather than just an alignment label.

I love that box set.

To put it simply, it's not flavor of the month anymore.

Mummy's Mask is long done, so you aren't likely to see much more support for it in a while.
Same reason we're not seeing more support for Tien pantheons, all the racial pantheons outside of core (the greater Elf pantheon and Dwarven pantheon, for instance), better write ups for existing minor gods (there are a handful with little more than a domain line or an appearance in an old Adventure Path, such as Camazotz, Feronia, Erecura, and Easivra), Sargaven/Mwangi gods, or any of the gods briefly mentioned in Distant Shores.

Personally, I'm a fantasy theology fan with Stockholm Syndrome for clerics, so I would love books upon books of gods and lore, but that's a bit much to ask of ask of a major publishing company.

Your answer begets a question of greater concern then:

Is there any point in investing any interest in deities and pantheons beyond the core 20 if their influence in the narrative are made story-wise obsolete in a year or two?

Does 'flavor of the month' even return to old locations and thems?!?

I'm now imagining a group therapy session among all the previous "Flavor of the Month" settings as they discuss the golden days and their unlikelihood of being revisited ever again....

<sad laughter>

I'm schizo on the topic, because I like the Egyptian gods (and various other real-world pantheons of old), and I like a lot of fantasy gods like Trithereon and Wee Jas, or Torm and Auril, or Madriel and Nemorga, or Nethys and Desna, but really don't like mish-mashes of the two (such the Egyptian gods showing up in the Forgotten Realms, or now in Golarion).

I'd prefer the Egyptian pantheon exist in a setting based on (a fantastic version of) the real world, co-existing with fantasy Greek / Norse / etc. pantheons.

That said, what is, is, and I wouldn't mind seeing deity write ups for Shu, Tefnut, Geb and Nut, to complete the Ennead (and the parents and grandparents of Osiris, Set, Isis and Nephthys).

How has this not had any Geb, Geb and Geb jokes?

{. . .}

Is there any point in investing any interest in deities and pantheons beyond the core 20 if their influence in the narrative are made story-wise obsolete in a year or two?

Does 'flavor of the month' even return to old locations and thems?!?

I'm now imagining a group therapy session among all the previous "Flavor of the Month" settings as they discuss the golden days and their unlikelihood of being revisited ever again....

<sad laughter>

It does for Varisia. The Osirioni deities should have set up missions there. And for me, they should have set up an Archive -- until then, I'm sticking with Nethys . . . Although on second thought, maybe this is secretly their Archive?

It does for Varisia. The Osirioni deities should have set up missions there.

Taldor and Azlant and even Cheliax established colonies scattered around the Inner Sea at various times, and off-map nations like Vudra and Casmaron / Greater Kel have branches in the Inner Sea. The Ulfen have a colony in Arcadia, IIRC.

It wouldn't be impossible for there to be an ancient Osirioni colony on some other continent in which the Osirioni deities are still the primary gods worshipped... (If the GM wanted there to be, for instance. Pick someone with a similar climate in Arcadia, for instance, or even as far away as Sarusan, and toss in some sort of magical gateway shenanigans in which a bunch of Osirioni fled some great disaster, or nasty local ruler they lacked the power, or will, to overthrow, so that the colonization didn't necessarily involve ships and a long nautical journey. Or, to really mix it up, put it in the Darklands, with the primacy of the sun-god Ra assured by the presence of a Sun Below shining upon the vast vault in which the Osirioni remnant culture dwells, maintained by the church of Ra and centered over the greatest temple to that faith, and unknown to any surface culture, and most Darklands cultures, save for the ghouls of Nemret Noktoria.)

I too wish the Egyptian Deities were more developed in Pathfinder. I wish other historical pantheons were also developed. I would not mind the Gods of Pegana also.

Do we need more developpement for these? Since they are based on a real-world mythology, I'd say that it's the same lore.

Just port whatever you like to Pathfinder/Golarion.

James doesn't have to do everything.