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I really don't like the Burn mechanics. As it stands the Kineticist does the same amount of damage as an Expert with a bow without that Burn, and the whole concept of the "Risk vs Reward" system, while a great idea, is horribly implemented. You shouldn't be having to knock yourself unconscious everytime you want to perform a decent amount of damage.
Now, I was discussing the Kinetecist with some associates, and one of them suggested a different way of handling the Burn mechanic that, allows he Kineticist to be more competent, while still giving a sense of "Risk vs Reward". The following are his words, and are quite an elegant solution.
hopefully this can aid in dragging the poor...They probably wanted burn to be a 'risk' mechanic, after playing too much... I'd wager Age of Reckoning (brightwizards, or their lesser inferior cousins the sorcerers who are flatly weaker in every way because they don't use fire... which would explain the talent list here)
I'd say let it all build up:
>Burn is REAL damage. It cannot be prevented or redirected in any way, BUT IT CAN HEAL.
>Burn damage equals the current level of burn, squared. So you won't take 100 until you build up 10 burn (which 5 would give you at level 20).
>Burn isn't suffered right away. Build up your burn and enjoy the bonuses. BUT: Any time you get a result of a natural 1 (so, use them rerolls if you have'em), all accumulated burn hits you full blast. So the higher level you get, the more damage you can be willing to risk, rather than the more you take for the same action.
>You can spend a standard action to reduce your current burn level by up to 1/4 your class level. Bonuses do go down, naturally, though, from vaporizing it off.
>Add a heat-beam talent that lets you lower your burn through a regular blast: Can't use any other infusions but add your current burn (pre-beam-drop) to the damage.That way, if you're going to f!*#ing explode yourself (f*ck that feat), it'll be from going f*cking nuclear.
I should really avoid continuing the drama, but this is a HORRIBLE fix, considering by design, a kineticist can EASILY avoid rolling as much as possible by only using area of effects and nondirect attacks, unless you mean that any possible skill or save means to blow yourself up whenever possible.
Burn as nonhealable Nonleathal damage comes out as a healthy mechanic when the class naturally incentivizes constitution as your primary stat in other ways through damage and DCs. Your damage is better than most every other class when you can't turret, and when you can turret your damage is pretty respectable. ( that example of 6d6+12 being.... low, coming out to 12d6+21 without applying con or items at level 11 before even touching that you could be doing that to multiple targets in a line and/or applying some debilitating effect AT NO ADDITIONAL COST)
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-snip-Whoa there- lots of people liked the burn mechanic, and I'm personally very excited to play one or two Kineticist characters. (Air built around stealth and eventually suffocating people silently, and a trickster aether character.) Heck, if anybody tells me they want to play a healer, I'm going to point them to this class first. You're free to not like it, but please don't say that he let "us" down.
That is totally the character I am planning on playing lol. I was not planning the suffocation part but the rest yes!
What are the new class options for changing casting stats?
Spiritualist can switch from Wis to Cha with extremely minor change- the bonus SLAs are switched out for different ones. (Spiritualist has some good modular archetypes.)
Kineticists can switch from Con to Cha with a burnless archetype.
I was able to put together an occult one-shot for Paizocon that even Brandon thought was super-cool. So that's one testimonial from a former hadn't-run-occult GM: This section helped me run an awesome occult game!That wasn't a game, Mark--that was a frikkin' work of art.I know I spoiled the "multiple layers of the onion" reveal for you, but I'd be happy to run it for you at some point!
And if anyone in the forum is interested, I might run it again next year at Paizocon in the lottery too!
No fair to people who can't get to your coast!
Any word on how the Page of Spell Knowledge interacts with Psychic spellcasters? It notes that only Arcane or Divine Spells are supported, but says that any spontaneous caster with that spell on their list can use it. Does that mean only arcane/divine spellcasters can use it, or only spells that have an arcane/divine version (IE. Can be cast by an arcane or divine caster) are eligible?
( that example of 6d6+12 being.... low, coming out to 12d6+21 without applying con or items at level 11 before even touching that you could be doing that to multiple targets in a line and/or applying some debilitating effect AT NO ADDITIONAL COST)
That's me positing a round 1 action of 5 foot stepping into the earth beneath you using Earth Glide, spending your move action to get your Tremorsense active, then Kinetic Whipping. I should have attached Bowling for a free trip attempt. Not bad considering they can't hit back. The other reason the numbers are lower is because the theorycraft had no gear.
Any hints on the type of rituals that are available in OA ?
Do they mostly just provide personal effects or do they range to something like Guards and Wards where they protect large areas ?
What determines the power level of rituals ?
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No fair to people who can't get to your coast!I was able to put together an occult one-shot for Paizocon that even Brandon thought was super-cool. So that's one testimonial from a former hadn't-run-occult GM: This section helped me run an awesome occult game!That wasn't a game, Mark--that was a frikkin' work of art.I know I spoiled the "multiple layers of the onion" reveal for you, but I'd be happy to run it for you at some point!
And if anyone in the forum is interested, I might run it again next year at Paizocon in the lottery too!
Having lived in the East Coast almost all my life, it's weird for the West Coast to be "my coast" now. But seriously, if your local con will invite me as a Guest of Honor (aka pay for flight and hotel), I will be happy to run Anagnorisis while I'm there as an incentive. Stephen just went to two cons in a row as a guest of honor (Tokyo in Tulsa and a Houston con), so it's definitely true that cons are sometimes willing to invite Paizo designers who aren't Jason. Check with your local con organizers and ask them for me!
( that example of 6d6+12 being.... low, coming out to 12d6+21 without applying con or items at level 11 before even touching that you could be doing that to multiple targets in a line and/or applying some debilitating effect AT NO ADDITIONAL COST)That's me positing a round 1 action of 5 foot stepping into the earth beneath you using Earth Glide, spending your move action to get your Tremorsense active, then Kinetic Whipping. I should have attached Bowling for a free trip attempt. Not bad considering they can't hit back. The other reason the numbers are lower is because the theorycraft had no gear.
Ah, Gotcha, I just realized myself that the number I said was slightly off because I fell in love so much with Fire's fury(whoops) that it confused me to what the normal EO bonus damage is, and beyond the basics for earth, it's the one I've looked at least, so it slipped my mind that you would be using move actions on tremorsense, though slipping into the earth like that while slowly becoming The Thing is still pretty sweet, even if it's not as sweet as exploding everything in giant clouds of smoke while emulating the human torch or playing up the invisible woman act while creating lots of walls and shields all over the battlefield while flinging debris at people(okay it IS just as sweet... and we need an elasticity kineticist of some sort for Mr Fantastic. or some sort of elastic person in general.)
Having lived in the East Coast almost all my life, it's weird for the West Coast to be "my coast" now. But seriously, if your local con will invite me as a Guest of Honor (aka pay for flight and hotel), I will be happy to run Anagnorisis while I'm there as an incentive. Stephen just went to two cons in a row as a guest of honor (Tokyo in Tulsa and a Houston con), so it's definitely true that cons are sometimes willing to invite Paizo designers who aren't Jason. Check with your local con organizers and ask them for me!
//Immediately starts to raise funding for an Australian-con//
Contributor
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I'm with Brandon; let's talk about some of the other things that interest you guys. I personally haven't heard much about the Running an Occult Game section, and I think it deserves some attention.
I'll try; I only skimmed someone else's subscriber copy, though. The Running an Occult Game section was interesting enough that I'd like a second look; the "subgenres", especially.
I was struck by one element that was familiar from tons of my own campaigns - the idea of a campaign where instead of answers, peeling away one mystery only reveals two more. I love running campaigns in that style: where what you kill isn't as important as what you learn, and seeking out the secrets of the past is a risk to more than just your health.
//Immediately starts to raise funding for an Australian-con//
Having lived in the East Coast almost all my life, it's weird for the West Coast to be "my coast" now. But seriously, if your local con will invite me as a Guest of Honor (aka pay for flight and hotel), I will be happy to run Anagnorisis while I'm there as an incentive. Stephen just went to two cons in a row as a guest of honor (Tokyo in Tulsa and a Houston con), so it's definitely true that cons are sometimes willing to invite Paizo designers who aren't Jason. Check with your local con organizers and ask them for me!
I actually went to Gencon Oz in Brisbane once, and I still have a shirt from there, short-lived as that con was. But yeah, you might need some solid fund-raising to get me back Down Under!
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I'm with Brandon; let's talk about some of the other things that interest you guys. I personally haven't heard much about the Running an Occult Game section, and I think it deserves some attention.I'll try; I only skimmed someone else's subscriber copy, though. The Running an Occult Game section was interesting enough that I'd like a second look; the "subgenres", especially.
I was struck by one element that was familiar from tons of my own campaigns - the idea of a campaign where instead of answers, peeling away one mystery only reveals two more. I love running campaigns in that style: where what you kill isn't as important as what you learn, and seeking out the secrets of the past is a risk to more than just your health.
That is exactly the element that I always tended to use myself as well and never realized how well it synergizes with Occult until Brandon and crew told me so in the turnover!
Ah, Gotcha, I just realized myself that the number I said was slightly off because I fell in love so much with Fire's fury(whoops) that it confused me to what the normal EO bonus damage is, and beyond the basics for earth, it's the one I've looked at least, so it slipped my mind that you would be using move actions on tremorsense, though slipping into the earth like that while slowly becoming The Thing is still pretty sweet, even if it's not as sweet as exploding everything in giant clouds of smoke while emulating the human torch or playing up the invisible woman act while creating lots of walls and shields all over the battlefield while flinging debris at people(okay it IS just as sweet... and we need an elasticity kineticist of some sort for Mr Fantastic. or some sort of elastic person in general.)( that example of 6d6+12 being.... low, coming out to 12d6+21 without applying con or items at level 11 before even touching that you could be doing that to multiple targets in a line and/or applying some debilitating effect AT NO ADDITIONAL COST)That's me positing a round 1 action of 5 foot stepping into the earth beneath you using Earth Glide, spending your move action to get your Tremorsense active, then Kinetic Whipping. I should have attached Bowling for a free trip attempt. Not bad considering they can't hit back. The other reason the numbers are lower is because the theorycraft had no gear.
Back during the playtest I had an NPC Earth Kineticist who used the above, ranks in Bluff and Perform: Act, and Spark of life to fool you into believing his summoned Elemental was his true form.
My apologies if this has already been answered (search didn't turn up a hit for me), but are occultists unable to invest in musical instruments other than drums (necromancy) still? I had found that curious during play test, and may simply homebrew around it, but I was wondering if that did change between playtest and live.
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Ectoplasmatist uses Spiritualist as the base, so it runs on Wisdom. Don't know how much touch is on it now because I haven't had time to look over the list, but a glance looks like at least two touch debuffs per spell level, with some other touch options.Ectoplasmatist instead sticks with the Spiritualist list, making it a debuffer in combat instead of tossing out fistfuls of electric d6s. Spiritualist holds up a lot better on the concentration checks (I think), because it can spell combat with reach (I think). There also some weird uses of reach lashes, like disarming somebody and picking their weapon up from their space.Using the Spiritualist spell list is interesting. I don't remember a lot of touch attack spells on that list. Is the Ectoplasmatist still an Int based caster?
I'm going to pretend that this was entirely my doing as someone who lobbied hard to make bad touch the Spiritualist's niche.
So a bad-touch class that uses ectoplasmic tentacles to deliver said bad touch? Ok. Just making sure I'm understanding that right.
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22 hours 42 minutes. And counting...
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So a bad-touch class that uses ectoplasmic tentacles to deliver said bad touch? Ok. Just making sure I'm understanding that right.
the Succubus thread is gonna have a field day with this....
My apologies if this has already been answered (search didn't turn up a hit for me), but are occultists unable to invest in musical instruments other than drums (necromancy) still? I had found that curious during play test, and may simply homebrew around it, but I was wondering if that did change between playtest and live.
There's also a bell option at least.
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So a bad-touch class that uses ectoplasmic tentacles to deliver said bad touch? Ok. Just making sure I'm understanding that right.the Succubus thread is gonna have a field day with this....
Ooooo crap. What have I created??? *facepalm*
The Ectoplasmatist started life as a full base class meant to fill two niches in the book: our soulknife equivalent, and the rogue/cleric equivalent to the magus' fighter/wizard makeup. I handed that class document over to Stephen in Tulsa last year, in the dark corner of a seedy tavern where we sat drinking beers and discussing the occult. Over time, the original concept got pulled apart into two entities, with a few of its abilities drawn into what's now the Spiritualist, and the rest landing as an archetype for that class more in line with the original concept of this raw ectoplasm-wielder. And I think both work beautifully!
Any hints on the type of rituals that are available in OA ?
Do they mostly just provide personal effects or do they range to something like Guards and Wards where they protect large areas ?
What determines the power level of rituals ?
I think there was discussion of this upthread already, but there are 14 occult rituals plus rules for running and creating them. Effects include warding areas and structures, creating a gate to the dream realm, a séance, community blessings (healthy crops, bonus to saves and healing, etc), creating a magic circle for trapping outsiders, creating a rift to the Ethereal, channeling the voice of spirit to commune with it, a blood-brothers type bonding/binding ritual for groups that provides some neat bonuses to draw upon, a ritual that opens the third eye to provide psychic abilities to all involved casters, group bonuses versus psychic effects, an exorcism, a ritual that allows you to visit the Astral, and one for summoning incorporeal undead servants.
The power level is determined by its assigned level, which is like a spell.
And weirdly the "community blessings (healthy crops, bonus to saves and healing, etc)" is the ritual that has my interest piqued most... I'm a sucker for society-influencing magic.
No fair to people who can't get to your coast!I was able to put together an occult one-shot for Paizocon that even Brandon thought was super-cool. So that's one testimonial from a former hadn't-run-occult GM: This section helped me run an awesome occult game!That wasn't a game, Mark--that was a frikkin' work of art.I know I spoiled the "multiple layers of the onion" reveal for you, but I'd be happy to run it for you at some point!
And if anyone in the forum is interested, I might run it again next year at Paizocon in the lottery too!
Or your country, your continent, your !!
Carry on! ;p
--C.
Hey does anyone know if there is a way /archetype that nets an Occultist a Familiar?
My apologies if this has already been answered (search didn't turn up a hit for me), but are occultists unable to invest in musical instruments other than drums (necromancy) still? I had found that curious during play test, and may simply homebrew around it, but I was wondering if that did change between playtest and live.There's also a bell option at least.
I sort of figured that was the case. Oh well. I'll probably house rule musical instruments (besides bells and drums) to act similarly to censers, although without the special vulnerability to creatures with the scent ability.
Or, who knows, maybe I'll do a full reskin of the class, with each perform subskill being linked to a spell school. I'll have to think about it when I get my hands on the pdf.
Hey does anyone know if there is a way /archetype that nets an Occultist a Familiar?
Two feats from Familiar Folio.
Any word on how the Page of Spell Knowledge interacts with Psychic spellcasters? It notes that only Arcane or Divine Spells are supported, but says that any spontaneous caster with that spell on their list can use it. Does that mean only arcane/divine spellcasters can use it, or only spells that have an arcane/divine version (IE. Can be cast by an arcane or divine caster) are eligible?Read as written, I don't believe psychic casters can use pages of spell knowledge, but they can use a spell lattice from Advanced Class Guide which does essentially the same thing for (I believe off the top of my head) the same price.
Thank you so much! A little strange to me that both items exist but this is perfect!
And weirdly the "community blessings (healthy crops, bonus to saves and healing, etc)" is the ritual that has my interest piqued most... I'm a sucker for society-influencing magic.
POOF! Like a demon, I am summoned.
What do you want to know about it?
-Ben.
(Local Incantation/Ritual Magic Specialist)
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See? Speak of the devil and he appears!
(Ben likely has a ritual for that, too)
I was unaware we were getting ritual magic in Occult Adventures... Does it use the same rules as the previous ritual magic (also found in Deep Magic )?
I was unaware we were getting ritual magic in Occult Adventures... Does it use the same rules as the previous ritual magic (also found in Deep Magic )?
Not quite, but as a starting point. Stephen updated those rules in a way that (in my games when I've used them so far) has made them more fun and interesting, while easier to build my own.
Thank you so much! A little strange to me that both items exist but this is perfect!Any word on how the Page of Spell Knowledge interacts with Psychic spellcasters? It notes that only Arcane or Divine Spells are supported, but says that any spontaneous caster with that spell on their list can use it. Does that mean only arcane/divine spellcasters can use it, or only spells that have an arcane/divine version (IE. Can be cast by an arcane or divine caster) are eligible?Read as written, I don't believe psychic casters can use pages of spell knowledge, but they can use a spell lattice from Advanced Class Guide which does essentially the same thing for (I believe off the top of my head) the same price.
I believe the spell lattice is because Arcanists cannot use pages of spell knowledge - they don't have a Spell Known list to add to.
That said, I don't see why psychic casters cannot use a page of spell knowledge. The 'arcane or divine' mention doesn't seem to affect the items' function, since that just needs 'has that spell on her class spell list'. If you can have scrolls of psychic spells*, then you should be able to have a page of spell knowledge for psychic spells.
I was unaware we were getting ritual magic in Occult Adventures... Does it use the same rules as the previous ritual magic (also found in Deep Magic )?Not quite, but as a starting point. Stephen updated those rules in a way that (in my games when I've used them so far) has made them more fun and interesting, while easier to build my own.
Now you have me even more interested. Always been a fan of his ritual magic rules, an updated version in an official pathfinder product is something I never expected to see! (But am super excited about )
Brandon, Stephen and you actually did some design/development of this book here in Tulsa?! Cool. I work in Tulsa and live not far in one of the suburbs.
I would really appreciate it if the "burn debate" would go burn somewhere else. It is really annoying to see it dominate so much of the discussion lately.
I was unaware we were getting ritual magic in Occult Adventures... Does it use the same rules as the previous ritual magic (also found in Deep Magic )?
They're quite close. I find those presented in Deep Magic to be more detailed and easier to use, but these are simplified. They are very certainly extremely compatible, with only minor differences in construction. The statistic block for an incantation was modified a bit, but not in any way that renders them unrecognizable.
-Ben.
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Brandon, Stephen and you actually did some design/development of this book here in Tulsa?!
We most certainly did! We became cellar dwellers for several days and hashed out a lot of the concepts from the initial outline Erik and I had put together, and took the first steps toward making a thick stack of wild esoteric ideas a developmental reality. We had a blast camping out with the material and brainstorming, and that Tulsa trip was a high point of my creative endeavors thus far!
I was unaware we were getting ritual magic in Occult Adventures... Does it use the same rules as the previous ritual magic (also found in Deep Magic )?Not quite, but as a starting point. Stephen updated those rules in a way that (in my games when I've used them so far) has made them more fun and interesting, while easier to build my own.
I do like rituals, especially combined with the Manifestations from Hell Unleashed. Makes it easy to give enemies useful abilities and thematic lairs without dropping loot on the party (I mean, unless they WANT to do the evil ceremony). Also lets parties create their own lairs too, which is always a plus.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
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There's some nice new haunt rules, as well as loci spirits, in Occult Adventures that should play well with the manifestations and rituals too. Between those rules and the ley lines section you can create some really complex magical shenanigans!
Thank you so much! A little strange to me that both items exist but this is perfect!Any word on how the Page of Spell Knowledge interacts with Psychic spellcasters? It notes that only Arcane or Divine Spells are supported, but says that any spontaneous caster with that spell on their list can use it. Does that mean only arcane/divine spellcasters can use it, or only spells that have an arcane/divine version (IE. Can be cast by an arcane or divine caster) are eligible?Read as written, I don't believe psychic casters can use pages of spell knowledge, but they can use a spell lattice from Advanced Class Guide which does essentially the same thing for (I believe off the top of my head) the same price.I believe the spell lattice is because Arcanists cannot use pages of spell knowledge - they don't have a Spell Known list to add to.
That said, I don't see why psychic casters cannot use a page of spell knowledge. The 'arcane or divine' mention doesn't seem to affect the items' function, since that just needs 'has that spell on her class spell list'. If you can have scrolls of psychic spells*, then you should be able to have a page of spell knowledge for psychic spells.
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah, personally I have zero problems with someone making psychic versions of a page of spell knowledge, but the basic version does say they have arcane/divine spells only. That said, spell lattice works fine, same price, and I think they're more thematic for a psychic character anyways.
Personally, I almost never use scrolls except (rarely) with a mnemonic vestment, so the arcane/divine/psychic divide isn't usually an issue.
I may still discuss it with my DM but I think he's generally happier rolling RAW if it's not a huge conflict. The only conflict with page of spell knowledge vs. spell lattice is that a spell lattice weighs one pound. Note a huge issue since you can just use a handy haversack, but it is a little annoying.
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8 hours and 30 minutes...
So, any anyone with the book can say what happend with Spiritualist? The preview wasn't good, it didn't say anything concrete about the changes...
