Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)
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Get ready to shake up your game! Within these pages, the designers of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game unleash their wildest ideas, and nothing is safe. From totally revised fundamentals like core classes and monster design to brand-new systems for expanding the way you play, this book offers fresh ideas while still blending with the existing system. With Pathfinder Unchained, you become the game designer!

Pathfinder Unchained is an indispensable companion to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 15 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Unchained includes:

  • New versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes, all revised to make them more balanced and easier to play.
  • New skill options for both those who want more skills to fill out their characters' backgrounds and those seeking streamlined systems for speed and simplicity.
  • Changes to how combat works, from a revised action system to an exhaustive list of combat tricks that draw upon your character's stamina.
  • Magic items that power up with you throughout your career—and ways to maintain variety while still letting players choose the "best" magic items.
  • Simplified monster creation rules for making new creatures on the fly.
  • Exotic material components ready to supercharge your spellcasting.
  • New takes on alignment, multiclassing, iterative attacks, wounds, diseases and poisons, and item creation.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-715-4

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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Some of the suggested mechanics are worth the entire price

5/5

Automatic Bonus Progression is enough to justify the entire price of the book. Better versions of the Rogue and Monk, as well as fixes to the summoner and streamlining the barabarian seal the deal. There is a lot of other good stuff in here as well. Well worth it!


Upgraded Mechanics!

5/5

I love the idea of this book, I wish this happened more often. They took what they saw wrong with their game and spent proper time and effort to come up with proper solutions. It's pretty rare for a company to spend this much effort on tweaking things. The new proposed mechanics for combat and skills are unique and great ideas to help customize your groups' gaming experience.
I hope they release more books like this in the future. I've love for more variations for multiclassing, and I'm still waiting for a summoner archetype that removes the class summon monster ability and focuses more on the eidolon.
Highly recommend it, especially for anyone interested in how someone goes about making a gaming system. It provides awesome insights.


Fantastic product

5/5

It's been a while since it took me so long to digest a Pathfinder book, and boy, did Unchained ever keep me digesting. More optional rules than you can shake a stick at, to be implemented in modular or wholesale fashion, to tweak your game to your heart's content, and with top-notch art throughout, to boot. Excellent work by Paizo and one of their finest offerings in a while.

As for the negatives, the only thing I can really point out is that the writing can be somewhat scattershot and unfocused in a couple of reasonably complex sections, which would have benefited greatly from examples or bolded formulae.


Love The Options

5/5

This book is a great addition. Options are optional, and it's great that this book has so many. It really makes customizing a campaign easy. Of you'll like you never use every option, or likely even half of them in a single you play or run, but having them really gives you a great toolbox to use. Some people are finicky about house rules, so having an official batch of "house rules" to choose from is nice for people who prefer to stick to official products. No book is perfect, but being this book isn't really being forced on anyone (of course I suppose none of the supplements are), and that is a giant bag of options that you can pick and choose from to enhance the game, for those who'd like it enhanced, I give this product 5 stars, especially if I am comparing it to the usefulness of the average Pathfinder product.


Great Options for Pathfinder

5/5

I'm a huge fan of the rules options in Pathfinder Unchained. They do a great job of creating fixes to some of the potential issues with the Pathfinder system without upsetting the entire rule system.

I'm one of those weird people who loved playing my TWF core rogue through all 11 levels of PFS, but I have to admit that the unchained rogue is an improvement. I also actually prefer the unchained summoner to the base summoner; even though the new one may seem less powerful, it's more thematically appropriate. I'm considering playing a summoner for the first time.

I've been using some of the alternate rules systems in my Hell's Rebels campaign, and I like how they are working out. I'm using automatic bonus progression at least in part because I know some of my players like to ignore the Big 6, or spend all their gold on +6 stat items as soon as possible to the exclusion of other items. This way I know their AC is still going up, and they'll end up more balanced. I can now also let them craft---using the much more engaging dynamic item creation rules---without worrying too much about wealth by level.

Some of the rules I wouldn't personally implement. I feel like alignment affirmations will just lead to alignment arguments at the table, and in my experience, multiclassers don't need the boost from partial base attack bonus increases. But I am glad that these options exist for tables that want them.


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A simple solution to dipping is to make the fighter-specific version of the feat work off of fighter level + con mod, while the feat works off of BAB + con mod.

Discourages fighter dipping but gives interested martials the ability to buy in with a feat. There absolutely are some combat tricks, like Arcane Armor Training, that make zero sense for fighters but are excellent options for other classes.

You could even add extra stamina to the fighter specific version of the feat, if you feel like the fighter needs the extra oomph over the other classes. You could make the fighter version (fighter level) + (Con mod times 2) or something similar?


Barachiel Shina wrote:

QUESTION

Can an Unchained Monk qualify for Drunken Master archetype? I have a player who wants to play Unchained but also wants the Drunken Master archetype. Is it possible?

A few of the things you trade out aren't given to you anymore, but are available as Ki Powers, though not at the same level, since the things you give up are at odd levels, and Monks get new Ki powers on even levels. Still Mind is pushed back a level, but Purity of Body is still in the same place, so what I'd do is have the archetype start at level 4 rather than level 3, then push back Drunken Courage, Drunken Resilience, and Firewater Breath a level, swapping out the level 12, 14, and 20 Ki powers in exchange for that. If that's too late for Firewater Breath, I'd consider the level 18 Ki power instead.

So technically, you can't use the archetype, but I see no reason why you shouldn't anyways, even if the things you get are mostly a level late. I mean, I guess you could consider doing them a level early instead of later, but I dunno.


I noticed that the variant multi-classing rules do not say anything about class skills. So it is safe to assume that you do not get the class skills of the secondary class, correct?

I do really like the monk except for the fact they no longer get

spoiler:
immunity to poison
:(


Dragon78 wrote:

I noticed that the variant multi-classing rules do not say anything about class skills. So it is safe to assume that you do not get the class skills of the secondary class, correct?

I do really like the monk except for the fact they no longer get ** spoiler omitted **:(

Correct.

And even though they no longer have immunity to poison, they also have other super cool Ki powers you can have instead. And Diamond Body is still there as a Ki power, you just have to activate it with a Ki point when you've been poisoned, and it works as Neutralize Poison.

What's SUPER cool though is the Cobra Breath Ki power. It lets you take poisons in your system, and when you use Diamond Body, rather than just getting rid of the poison, you get to use the poison as a Ranged Touch Attack to poison your enemy, even if the poison isn't normally a contact poison.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Obbu wrote:

Just subbed to get this product, very excited.

Pressed the ship as soon as possible button, and paid 20 bucks extra for shipping, mainly to get the PDF today: but it's not in my downloads.

Does this usually take a while to go through?

It doesn't go into your downloads until your box is shipped.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kudaku wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Nice! I'd also love to hear people's favorite low-cost option- something you can use several times in a fight.
Hm... I like Arcane Armor Training. By spending 1 stamina point, you can activate Arcane Armor Mastery as a free action rather than a swift action. It's a small change, but it opens up Quickened Spells and the various Bard and Magus abilities that rely on Swift actions.

I don't see where Bard and Magus come into this since they wouldn't be using the feat anyway.


Kudaku wrote:

A simple solution to dipping is to make the fighter-specific version of the feat work off of fighter level + con mod, while the feat works off of BAB + con mod.

Discourages fighter dipping but gives interested martials the ability to buy in with a feat. There absolutely are some combat tricks, like Arcane Armor Training, that make zero sense for fighters but are excellent options for other classes.

You could even add extra stamina to the fighter specific version of the feat, if you feel like the fighter needs the extra oomph over the other classes. You could make the fighter version (fighter level) + (Con mod times 2) or something similar?

I already figured in Fighter Level + Con. As for feats that make no sense like Arcane Armor Training they are still useful to the Fighter multiclasses.


Calth wrote:
gharlane wrote:

So, a few questions here.

1. summoners. One of my settings uses summoners who have constructs, not extraplaner entities as their eidelons. Will that be difficult to import-- I rather like what I'm hearing about the unchained summoner given that the older version has always had balance issues.

2. The varient magic item rules-- can they be used for a setting where magic is very rare? Traditional PAthfinder assumes that as you level up you're also getting magic items, which isn't really fitting with the theme of an iceage/stone age setting.

1.) You should be able to house rule them pretty easily, especially constructs. At each level, grant the eidolon some of the abilities granted by the construct subtype, or an evolution point(that's a fairly common filler boost).

2.)The Automatic system actually has a suggestion for 0 magic item play. The chart goes to level 22, and you get the benefits of your level+2.

For those familiar with it, the Automatic Progression works much like the vow of poverty bonuses (though without the poverty) for 3.5 and has some of the same shortcomings. The Automatic Progression is based around the assumption that you still get half WBL to spend on consumables and wondrous items, so it doesn't cover non-bonus things that characters rely on magic for such as flight, underwater breathing, or magical healing.

If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, fighting everything in the Bestiaries, casters are allowed for play" the Automatic system by itself isn't enough to balance a party of casters with a party of non-casters. If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, predominantly non-flying humanoid enemies, no spellcasters allowed" then the Automatic System can probably pull it off, though you'll be spending a lot of time resting and healing between fights. The Automatic System makes low magic/no-magic campaigns easier to run but it won't necessarily do all the work for you.


Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?

So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?

Also, thank you very, very much for your presence in the product discussion!


Having otherwise been busy, I've now read the Automatic Bonus Progression pages. I like it.

When applied to NPCs (regardless of racial HD), I assume that the bonuses applied should relate to CR?

For example, a human fighter 5 NPC (CR 4) wouldn't gain the deflection +1 bonus. If that NPC has PC wealth, then they would be CR 5 and hence gain the deflection +1 bonus.

Similarly, a ogre fighter 1 NPC (CR 4) wouldn't gain the deflection +1 bonus either.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Eltacolibre wrote:
So what about that simple monster creation, does it look interesting? Less time spent on writing down monster stats is always good in my book.

I did a lot of the work on this system (along with Rob Schwalb). There's a bit of a learning curve to it the first time you use it, mostly because it has you NOT doing a lot of calculations you're used to doing. After that it's pretty fast. Takes a couple minutes to do a simple beater monster, most of which is spent transcribing the stats.

And to answer everyone's burning question about simple monster creation: YES, you can make one that's like a monk.

Designer

I'm loving all of the cool tinkered versions you guys are posting here! Keep 'em coming; I might just be using some of your modifications in my own games! (some of the slight adjustments to stamina vis-a-vis fighters intrigue me).

Now some things about Automatic Progression:

Quote:
If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, fighting everything in the Bestiaries, casters are allowed for play" the Automatic system by itself isn't enough to balance a party of casters with a party of non-casters. If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, predominantly non-flying humanoid enemies, no spellcasters allowed" then the Automatic System can probably pull it off, though you'll be spending a lot of time resting and healing between fights. The Automatic System makes low magic/no-magic campaigns easier to run but it won't necessarily do all the work for you.

Due to your numbers advantage, you may be able to take on everything in the bestiaries with low magic (which yeah, I would assume means not using full casters at the very least, possibly no casters but 4-levels like paladins), but you'll have to play particularly cleverly, including where you put your affinity and how you structure the party. For instance, having an archer would be a big help, and if you don't, the melee character really should use the extra progression to advance a backup bow at least.

Quote:

Having otherwise been busy, I've now read the Automatic Bonus Progression pages. I like it.

When applied to NPCs (regardless of racial HD), I assume that the bonuses applied should relate to CR?

For example, a human fighter 5 NPC (CR 4) wouldn't gain the deflection +1 bonus. If that NPC has PC wealth, then they would be CR 5 and hence gain the deflection +1 bonus.

Similarly, a ogre fighter 1 NPC (CR 4) wouldn't gain the deflection +1 bonus either.

Agreed, eric. Since NPCs usually have lower WBL, they would get less automatic progression too.

Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Zhangar wrote:

Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?

So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?

Also, thank you very, very much for your presence in the product discussion!

You're very welcome!

If you took something as a qinggong power, you would use the version in Unchained if there is one. Then again, this is Unchained, so feel free to unchain that away if you like!


I've seen a brief description of it and asked earlier and no one answered, but could anyone tell me exactly what the witch variant multiclass does? What levels do they get what abilities and why can't they take extra hex?


Mark Seifter wrote:
Zhangar wrote:

Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?

So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?

Also, thank you very, very much for your presence in the product discussion!

You're very welcome!

If you took something as a qinggong power, you would use the version in Unchained if there is one. Then again, this is Unchained, so feel free to unchain that away if you like!

Hah, called it! Speaking of which, Mark, was it intentional that both the Formless Mastery and Furious Defense ki powers have odd level prereqs when everything else was even? Also, can you shed some light on the design decisions behind increasing Quivering Palm's action and ki point cost?

EDIT: oh, and thanks for answering questions and what's so far a really, really cool book.

Designer

Cerberus Seven wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Zhangar wrote:

Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?

So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?

Also, thank you very, very much for your presence in the product discussion!

You're very welcome!

If you took something as a qinggong power, you would use the version in Unchained if there is one. Then again, this is Unchained, so feel free to unchain that away if you like!

Hah, called it! Speaking of which, Mark, was it intentional that both the Formless Mastery and Furious Defense ki powers have odd level prereqs when everything else was even? Also, can you shed some light on the design decisions behind increasing Quivering Palm's action and ki point cost?

EDIT: oh, and thanks for answering questions and what's so far a really, really cool book.

I'm not sure how they wound up at an odd level, to be honest. Jason wrote Furious Defense and I wrote Formless Mastery, so it doesn't even make sense that one of us put it in by accident, since there were two different authors. Personally, I'd put them at 6th.

@Quivering Palm—I'm not sure, actually. I'm sure Jason would know.


Which skills can be taken as background skill? I assume Craft, Profession, Appraise, maybe Knowledges, and I read about Sleight of Hand and Handle Animal?


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I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.

So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.
Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Seelenquell wrote:
Which skills can be taken as background skill? I assume Craft, Profession, Appraise, maybe Knowledges, and I read about Sleight of Hand and Handle Animal?

According to a friend of mine who has the book, Appraise, Artistry, Craft, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Engineering, Geography, History, Nobility), Linguistics, Lore, Perform, Profession, and Sleight of Hand are the background skills.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kudaku wrote:

I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.

So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?

If we are going to talk about alternate skill systems why not try this:

Trait bonus[all classes]:
If you take a trait that grants you a class skill you already have as a class skill - this trait instead gives you 1 skill rank at levels 1,5,10,15 and 20. These skill ranks stack with the skill ranks you put into the skill. This means at level 20 your max skill ranks are now 25 for that skill.

That gives some extra skill points to spread around or the player can become a legendary (whatever).


Luthorne wrote:
Seelenquell wrote:
Which skills can be taken as background skill? I assume Craft, Profession, Appraise, maybe Knowledges, and I read about Sleight of Hand and Handle Animal?
According to a friend of mine who has the book, Appraise, Artistry, Craft, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Engineering, Geography, History, Nobility), Linguistics, Lore, Perform, Profession, and Sleight of Hand are the background skills.

This is correct. Artistry is a new skill introduced to handle creating things like poetry or philosophy, stuff not so easily covered by craft, perform or profession checks. Lore is a hyper-specialized version of a knowledge check - rather than Knowledge: Religion giving you general knowledge of undead and all the deities, ranks in Lore could mean that you know a lot about Erastil or mummies.

Designer

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Hayato Ken wrote:

I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.

Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^

By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!


Thanks @Luthorne and @Kudaku! That sound interesting.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kudaku wrote:

I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.

So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?

I like this! It takes advantage of the system to encourage cool and interesting backgrounds while opening up skill points for more general use. Neat idea!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:

I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.

Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^

By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!

Called it! Just uh. Saying...

I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.


I may have missed it. How are crits handled in the new attack system?


Feros wrote:
Kudaku wrote:

I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.

So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?

I like this! It takes advantage of the system to encourage cool and interesting backgrounds while opening up skill points for more general use. Neat idea!

I'm anxiously waiting for the book to come in the mail partly because of Backgrounds. Traits are kind of a background mechanic but I always felt it was a bit limited and lackluster. Merging it with Unchained backgrounds would be cool but I need to see it before I can figure how I want to do that. Perhaps even tie it to the Hero Point system making it similar to Inspiration in 5th edition.

Designer

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Lanitril wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:

I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.

Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^

By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!

Called it! Just uh. Saying...

I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.

I have both a ninja and a rogue in my Jade Regent game. I gave the rogue all the Unchained powers. I gave the ninja nothing. It seems to be doing well so far. Ninja is just pretty strong compared to non-Unchained rogue, so I would strongly recommend not giving it everything if you want to keep the choice between them more competitive. In some games, that might not matter though.


@ KageCM - The all attacks in one swing one?

If you have multiple hits worth of attacks, and score a crit, you deal crit damage for the first attack.

Unless your confirmation roll is also a threat, in which case you get two crits. (Assuming you could deal two hits worth of damage to begin with.)

The all attacks in one swing method also allows moving before taking the attack, with a penalty on the attack roll (-5 for every 5 ft past the first five feet, IIRC).

Contributor

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Barachiel Shina wrote:

QUESTION

Can an Unchained Monk qualify for Drunken Master archetype? I have a player who wants to play Unchained but also wants the Drunken Master archetype. Is it possible?

No. I sat down the other day to figure out it for myself; the only archetypes from the Core Rulebook line that are still compatible with the Unchained Monk are the master of many styles and the sensei. The reason? Both archetypes don't trade any of the monk class features that were either A) bumped back a level or B) transformed into ki powers.

That said, I sat down and took Mark's "Unchain everything!" message to heart. I just finished writing unchained monk versions of all of the Core Rulebook-line monk archetypes. As soon as I can get some art together for it, I'm going to publish it as an Everyman Gaming product. (I'm shooting for early May.)


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lanitril wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:

I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.

Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^

By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!

Called it! Just uh. Saying...

I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.

I have both a ninja and a rogue in my Jade Regent game. I gave the rogue all the Unchained powers. I gave the ninja nothing. It seems to be doing well so far. Ninja is just pretty strong compared to non-Unchained rogue, so I would strongly recommend not giving it everything if you want to keep the choice between them more competitive. In some games, that might not matter though.

I would only give the ninja the unchained rogue's abilities after taking away the ninja's invisibility. The ninja's other powers actually aren't nearly as powerful as just that one.

Verdant Wheel

Kudaku wrote:
If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, fighting everything in the Bestiaries, casters are allowed for play" the Automatic system by itself isn't enough to balance a party of casters with a party of non-casters. If low magic translates to "magic items are super rare, predominantly non-flying humanoid enemies, no spellcasters allowed" then the Automatic System can probably pull it off, though you'll be spending a lot of time resting and healing between fights. The Automatic System makes low magic/no-magic campaigns easier to run but it won't necessarily do all the work for you.

In this case, the Skill Unlock Heal would help mitigate the Healing Problem a bit. But i guess this sysmtem work a lot in a ambient where the players don´t wish to keep buying and upgrading their itens so much.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lanitril wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:

I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.

Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^

By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!

Called it! Just uh. Saying...

I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.

I have both a ninja and a rogue in my Jade Regent game. I gave the rogue all the Unchained powers. I gave the ninja nothing. It seems to be doing well so far. Ninja is just pretty strong compared to non-Unchained rogue, so I would strongly recommend not giving it everything if you want to keep the choice between them more competitive. In some games, that might not matter though.

So how would you handle other classes, like Investigators or Archeologist Bards, that can access Rogue Talents? Would they be able to use the Unchained versions?


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Ckorik wrote:

If we are going to talk about alternate skill systems why not try this:

Trait bonus[all classes]:
If you take a trait that grants you a class skill you already have as a class skill - this trait instead gives you 1 skill rank at levels 1,5,10,15 and 20. These skill ranks stack with the skill ranks you put into the skill. This means at level 20 your max skill ranks are now 25 for that skill.

That gives some extra skill points to spread around or the player can become a legendary (whatever).

That is very interesting, but I would probably not allow the skill ranks to stack beyond the normal max. The max ranks=level hard cap is used to balance feats and prestige classes, so changing the cap could create a lot of problems. Evangelist at level 4 instead of 5 or Spell Perfection at level 12 instead of 15, for example.

Feros wrote:
Kudaku wrote:

I'm thinking about combining the trait system and the background skill system. If a trait grants you a class skill, and you already have the skill from your class list, it's instead treated as a Background skill.

So a ranger with a theoretical trait called Avid Hunter that grants Survival as a class skill would be able to put his Background skill points into Survival... Thoughts?

I like this! It takes advantage of the system to encourage cool and interesting backgrounds while opening up skill points for more general use. Neat idea!

Thanks! I suggested it in part to solve the ever-present Cleric of Erastil problem - clerics should be able to handle various aspects that their deity is concerned about and depending on the deity, 2 skill ranks + INT per level can make that hard to pull off. In the previously mentioned example the cleric of Erastil could use traits to put Knowledge (nature) and Diplomacy or Heal on his Background list, which eases the strain a great deal.


I want this so bad but Paizo doesn't accept PayPal, and that's the only way I can get it.


QUESTION
Is the Lore skill a class skill for all classes since it is more specified?


Malwing wrote:
I'm anxiously waiting for the book to come in the mail partly because of Backgrounds. Traits are kind of a background mechanic but I always felt it was a bit limited and lackluster. Merging it with Unchained backgrounds would be cool but I need to see it before I can figure how I want to do that. Perhaps even tie it to the Hero Point system making it similar to Inspiration in 5th edition.

I've been debating Unchained with a fair few of the local GMs, what systems to use etc. Opinions differ (at times wildly) on the merits of the various options, but the one thing we all immediately agreed on was to start using the Background system. It's intuitive, simple to learn, and it's a great boon to players who want their character build to reflect the character backstory.

It's in all honesty a very good system. :)

Barachiel Shina wrote:

QUESTION

Is the Lore skill a class skill for all classes since it is more specified?

Lore is a class skill for all classes. Artistry is a class skill for all classes that have either Craft or Perform as a class skill, which I think is all classes released to date? I can't think of one that doesn't start with Craft.

Sovereign Court

yeah indeed all classes have craft. Also glad to read about the monster creation system. I'm looking forward to use it.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Barachiel Shina wrote:

QUESTION

Is the Lore skill a class skill for all classes since it is more specified?

Lore is a class-skill for all classes.


Zhangar wrote:

@ KageCM - The all attacks in one swing one?

If you have multiple hits worth of attacks, and score a crit, you deal crit damage for the first attack.

Unless your confirmation roll is also a threat, in which case you get two crits. (Assuming you could deal two hits worth of damage to begin with.)

The all attacks in one swing method also allows moving before taking the attack, with a penalty on the attack roll (-5 for every 5 ft past the first five feet, IIRC).

Cool. Thanks for the info.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Lanitril wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:

I´m totally seeing some of the unchained rogue abilities applying to ninjas (i already let them trade poison use and the other one instead of trap finding and danger sense) and slayers, perhaps even swashbucklers.

Or even be it a consequence of taking weapon finesse^^

By default, since it is a variant class of the original rogue, the ninja does not get the Unchained rogue stuff, but if it serves your game, you could definitely consider adding in whichever ones you like!

Called it! Just uh. Saying...

I've been meaning to look at how I'd Unchain the Ninja, but I figure it would be basically give it the Finesse Training, Debilitating Strike, and maybe Rogue's Edge? A little more unsure on the last one. Give them access to Double Debilitation probably.

I have both a ninja and a rogue in my Jade Regent game. I gave the rogue all the Unchained powers. I gave the ninja nothing. It seems to be doing well so far. Ninja is just pretty strong compared to non-Unchained rogue, so I would strongly recommend not giving it everything if you want to keep the choice between them more competitive. In some games, that might not matter though.
I would only give the ninja the unchained rogue's abilities after taking away the ninja's invisibility. The ninja's other powers actually aren't nearly as powerful as just that one.

Giving the ninja something is of course pretty far in unchain your house-ruled home game territory, but in my eyes on the positive side.

Never had a ninja and a rogue in the same game so far though. In that case i would probably do the same as Mark Seifter.

On the other side, i we never had someone use vanishing trick so extensively and i wouldn´t do that either. Going nova is normaly not my style, since i think it doesn´t make sense from the characters view.
After all, what will you do if you blasted out everything and then still encounter someone?


Nuuuu, it is starting to look like I won't see my pdf until next week! Quick, who do I need to bribe to get it today? ;)


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Regarding the new action economy: am I missing something here, or does this basically make everyone move 50% faster in the long run?


Matrix Dragon wrote:
Nuuuu, it is starting to look like I won't see my pdf until next week! Quick, who do I need to bribe to get it today? ;)

You should probably hire one of those Unchained Rogues to steal a copy for you. I hear those guys are pretty good.


This book seems to be at home in my sidecart...


How strong is the "stamina-system"?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Everyone keeps mentioning the skill unlocks (especially Heal) but keeping the actual uses oddly vague. If it's some kind of conspiracy to drive me crazy, you can stop now. What do Acrobatics and Sleight of Hand do? And I guess Heal since nobody will stop mentioning it :P


LuniasM wrote:
Everyone keeps mentioning the skill unlocks (especially Heal) but keeping the actual uses oddly vague. If it's some kind of conspiracy to drive me crazy, you can stop now. What do Acrobatics and Sleight of Hand do? And I guess Heal since nobody will stop mentioning it :P

Generally speaking we're allowed to "spoil" minor details, but we're not allowed to copy/paste directly from the book or give out excessively detailed stuff.

That said, The skill unlock system gives you a new way to use a skill (or changes the way you can currently use the skill) for every 5 ranks you invest in it, provided you invest a specific feat in the skill. Unchained Rogues get free skill unlocks every five levels.

For Heal, that means that you can use the Treat Deadly Wounds option to heal increasingly large amounts of HP and ability damage. It's not mindblowingly good, but it's a nice option for a party with limited (or no) access to magical healing.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
LuniasM wrote:
Everyone keeps mentioning the skill unlocks (especially Heal) but keeping the actual uses oddly vague. If it's some kind of conspiracy to drive me crazy, you can stop now. What do Acrobatics and Sleight of Hand do? And I guess Heal since nobody will stop mentioning it :P

Acrobatics:
Go at normal speed through a threatened square at a lower penalty, use Acrobatics as a defense against trip attacks or a Reflex save against falls, stand up from prone with AoO, and double Acrobatics on jumps plus fall any distance and not end up prone if you remain conscious.

Sleight of Hand:
Use Sleight of Hand to improve disarm or steal maneuver attempts (+2), easier to use Sleight of Hand as a move action (–10 only), later easier as a swift action (–20), and finally no penalty as a move action and much easier as a swift action (–10).

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