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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)
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Get ready to shake up your game! Within these pages, the designers of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game unleash their wildest ideas, and nothing is safe. From totally revised fundamentals like core classes and monster design to brand-new systems for expanding the way you play, this book offers fresh ideas while still blending with the existing system. With Pathfinder Unchained, you become the game designer!

Pathfinder Unchained is an indispensable companion to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 15 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Unchained includes:

  • New versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes, all revised to make them more balanced and easier to play.
  • New skill options for both those who want more skills to fill out their characters' backgrounds and those seeking streamlined systems for speed and simplicity.
  • Changes to how combat works, from a revised action system to an exhaustive list of combat tricks that draw upon your character's stamina.
  • Magic items that power up with you throughout your career—and ways to maintain variety while still letting players choose the "best" magic items.
  • Simplified monster creation rules for making new creatures on the fly.
  • Exotic material components ready to supercharge your spellcasting.
  • New takes on alignment, multiclassing, iterative attacks, wounds, diseases and poisons, and item creation.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-715-4

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Great Optional Toolkit

5/5 —

Having completed a couple of adventure paths as GM and gearing up for my third, I felt I had enough experience under my belt to see about implementing some of the alternative rules systems from Pathfinder Unchained. The book presents 254 pages of different or additional ways to do things in Pathfinder, and it’s certainly worth a look if you’re planning a new campaign—chances are there’s something for every GM. These aren’t little things like a new feat, but major redesigns of entire classes, monster creation, magic, and more. The only caveat is that the more you stray from the Core rules, the more unresolved issues are likely to arise, so think carefully through the implications of a change and make sure players are willing to buy in to any adjustments. Anyway, there’s a ton of material to discuss, so let’s get to it!

I’m not a big fan of the cover. The golem or animated statue or whatever it is has a crazy narrow waist that really annoys me for some reason, even though I do acknowledge the whirling chains are a nice nod to the book’s title. The introduction (2 pages long) notes that Pathfinder was released seven years earlier (at that point) and that it’s time to offer a workshop full of tools for GMs to select from to update and customise their game. It provides a brief but useful overview of the major new changes, and is worth a skim.

Chapter 1 is “Classes” (36 pages) and contains the most widely adopted changes across the Pathfinder community. The chapter presents new “Unchained” versions of the Barbarian, Monk, Rogue, and Summoner, and even PFS allows them because they are almost unanimously accepted as more playable (and better balanced) revisions. The Unchained Barbarian has simplified calculations for rage duration (though it still lasts too long, in my opinion) and makes it easier to use rage powers. The Unchained Monk has a simplified Flurry of Blows and new ki powers for versatility. The Unchained Rogue gets skill unlocks (discussed later) and important abilities like debilitating injury, weapon finesse, and (eventually) Dex to damage. The Unchained Summoner is frankly a nerf, but a much-needed one; the biggest change is to the eidolon, but it also fixes the Summoner spell list. I’m happy with all the class revisions, and I only wish Paizo got around to making Unchained versions of some of the other problematic classes out there. The chapter also contains a new method to compute BABs and saves to help multiclass characters, but it looks too complicated to me. Finally, there’s a new “staggered advancement” mechanism that sort of allows a character to partially level up as they go instead of doing it all at once when they reach a new XP threshold; I think it’s more effort than its worth.

Chapter 2 is “Skills and Options” (44 pages). It starts with an optional “Background” skills system, which essentially gives each PC a free rank each level to spend on a non-combat oriented skill like Craft, Perform, etc. I tried it once in a previous campaign but found it was rarely used to flesh out a character and was instead just dumped into learning another language or another point in a Knowledge skill. I do like the expanded skill uses for Craft, Perform, and Profession—they’re easy to integrate into a campaign because they essentially give the GM a list of uses and DCs to make those skills more valuable in ordinary gameplay (such as using Craft to determine what culture made an item, for example). Another optional change is a consolidated skill list that cuts the number of skills in a third! This is essentially what Starfinder did, and I’m not a fan at all because it makes for too much homogeneity within a group. Another proposal is “grouped skills” which makes PCs more broadly skilled but less specialised; complicated but interesting. Next, there are alternative Crafting and Profession rules. I like the changes to Crafting (simplifies and details DCs better) but it doesn’t address magical item crafting which, frankly, is the most likely to be used and abused. The changes to Profession are only for running a business. Perhaps most pertinent are the “Skill Unlocks” for Unchained Rogue (or any other PC who takes a particular feat)—these allow a character who has 5, 10, 15, and 20 ranks in a skill to gain a particular ability with that skill. These aren’t game-changers for the most part, but they do speed up their use or remove penalties, and are worth having for the most part. Last, there’s a new way to handle multiclassing; essentially, you give up feats to get the secondary powers of another class. I found it interesting but ultimately unsatisfactory.

Chapter 3 is “Gameplay” (46 pages) and is a real grab bag of options. The first involves alignment: either making it a bigger part of the game by tracking PCs’ alignment more finely and providing bonuses accordingly, or removing it altogether (which would require a *lot* of GM legwork). Some people like the revised action economy (a version of which was implemented in PF2), which changes the admittedly initially confusing dichotomy of Free/Swift/Immediate/Move/Standard/Full to just “Simple” and “Advanced”. However, I’ve also heard issues with how it handles certain classes. Another proposal is to remove iterative attacks; it looks interesting but too complicated for easy adoption. Next are “stamina points” and “combat tricks”—basically, a pool of points to use for a bonus on an attack or to do certain tricks that improve combat feats; I could certainly see using this. Also tempting is the idea of “wound thresholds”, which means there’s a degradation of fighting ability the more hit points are lost—this would create some new tactical considerations though it would also require some more GM tracking. Last are Starfinder-style disease and poison progression tracks, which make them *much* deadlier (I think they’re too hard to integrate at this stage in Pathfinder, however).

Chapter Four is “Magic” (38 pages). It starts with “Simplified Spellcasting”, in which a spellcaster only prepares spells for their three highest spell levels with all lesser spells grouped in a pool; this provides them even more flexibility, which is anathema to those (like me) unhappy with the caster/martial disparity at higher levels. Next are “Spell Alterations”, and some of these are more my jam: limited magic, wild magic, spell crits and fumbles, and material components have a cost for every spell (old school!). I know a lot of groups use the “Automatic Bonus Progression” rules, which provide a fixed bonus at each level so that the “Big Six” magic item slots can be used for more interesting and flavourful things than just stat boosting gear. Next are magical items that scale; I think one or two of these in a campaign could be really fun (and manageable), though I wouldn’t want to overdo it just because of the complications. Last up is a new way of handling magic item creation that involves the whole party overcoming challenges in order to add unique powers to items; it’s certainly flavourful and worth considering.

Chapter Five is “Monsters” (62 pages). It presents a whole new (and allegedly much faster) way of creating monsters. It’s the method adopted in Starfinder, and is based on arrays and grafts rather than building a creature from the “ground up”. I’m personally not a fan of it (I like knowing monsters follow the same “rules” as everyone else), but I do sympathise with the homebrewers out there who want a faster way to stock a dungeon with custom creations.

And that’s Pathfinder Unchained. If you’ve been playing or GMing for a while and have a good sense of the Core rules, it’s certainly worth a look.

Some of the suggested mechanics are worth the entire price

5/5 —

Automatic Bonus Progression is enough to justify the entire price of the book. Better versions of the Rogue and Monk, as well as fixes to the summoner and streamlining the barabarian seal the deal. There is a lot of other good stuff in here as well. Well worth it!

Upgraded Mechanics!

5/5 —

I love the idea of this book, I wish this happened more often. They took what they saw wrong with their game and spent proper time and effort to come up with proper solutions. It's pretty rare for a company to spend this much effort on tweaking things. The new proposed mechanics for combat and skills are unique and great ideas to help customize your groups' gaming experience.
I hope they release more books like this in the future. I've love for more variations for multiclassing, and I'm still waiting for a summoner archetype that removes the class summon monster ability and focuses more on the eidolon.
Highly recommend it, especially for anyone interested in how someone goes about making a gaming system. It provides awesome insights.

Fantastic product

5/5 —

It's been a while since it took me so long to digest a Pathfinder book, and boy, did Unchained ever keep me digesting. More optional rules than you can shake a stick at, to be implemented in modular or wholesale fashion, to tweak your game to your heart's content, and with top-notch art throughout, to boot. Excellent work by Paizo and one of their finest offerings in a while.

As for the negatives, the only thing I can really point out is that the writing can be somewhat scattershot and unfocused in a couple of reasonably complex sections, which would have benefited greatly from examples or bolded formulae.

Love The Options

5/5 —

This book is a great addition. Options are optional, and it's great that this book has so many. It really makes customizing a campaign easy. Of you'll like you never use every option, or likely even half of them in a single you play or run, but having them really gives you a great toolbox to use. Some people are finicky about house rules, so having an official batch of "house rules" to choose from is nice for people who prefer to stick to official products. No book is perfect, but being this book isn't really being forced on anyone (of course I suppose none of the supplements are), and that is a giant bag of options that you can pick and choose from to enhance the game, for those who'd like it enhanced, I give this product 5 stars, especially if I am comparing it to the usefulness of the average Pathfinder product.

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I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion
ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion

I recall having an unfinished idea in Google Drive that took the idea of "eidolon models", and combined it with your idea. Essentially, you chose a creature that fit the "model" (angel, devil, etc), and it advances similar to an animal companion (though, it advances slightly more than that in my initial idea).

Alas, it went on the back burner, and never left.
ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion

Yeah, that's my biggest worry. I really hope they don't do this.

Paizo Employee Creative Director
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Odraude wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion
Yeah, that's my biggest worry. I really hope they don't do this.

If it makes anyone feel better... I'm not going to be one of the authors on this book, nor am I going to be much involved with its outlining or its development.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
However, that does open up room for an archetype that allows an eidolon with a different alignment, so that you can play up a non-evil character than signed an infernal pact for a devil. Or a neutral or evil character with a 'guardian angel' trying to redeem him. Or whatever.
That's a pretty cool idea. Makes me wonder what kind of class abilities such an archetype would have in place of its regular features.

Not sure it would have to give anything up. Just picking an outsider subtype and a corresponding alignment isn't a power boost in and of itself.

Maybe link it to the 'eidolon models' somehow so that if you've decided you want a LE devil for an eidolon, you have to buy evolutions listed for devils. Maybe reduced evolution points in exchange for certain free evolutions at various levels (especially if it's a racial power not normally available via normal evolutions, like maybe Genie eidolons could get wish 1/week at 17th level or something.)

But that's mostly to prevent characters that pick Angel and then make it a multi-tentacled horror with poison attacks. It could be left on the honor system.
1 person marked this as a favorite.
Axial wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:

Speaking of Advanced Bestiary... You excited for the Pathfinder Advanced Bestiary?

Link in case you weren't aware

Yeah, when's that supposed to come out, anyway?

Current best guess is pdfs before Gen Con, print shortly after Gen Con. Once we have print books, shipping them out to patrons first is going to be a big priority.

Owen KC Stephens wrote:
Current best guess is pdfs before Gen Con, print shortly after Gen Con. Once we have print books, shipping them out to patrons first is going to be a big priority.

Off topic, but is there any estimate when the surveys with be sent out for that kickstarter? I can only assume it will be shortly before the PDFs get sent out. It's either that or something really went wrong as I never got one.

5 people marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:


Odraude wrote:


ikarinokami wrote:


I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion
Yeah, that's my biggest worry. I really hope they don't do this.

If it makes anyone feel better... I'm not going to be one of the authors on this book, nor am I going to be much involved with its outlining or its development.

Hey! I'd feel better if you were an author :) I generally find myself agreeing with you and even when I don't I find your reasoning sound. I can't think of anyone at Paizo whose work I don't want to see, whether I agree on everything or not. You've got a good crew there.

Silver Crusade
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ross Byers wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
However, that does open up room for an archetype that allows an eidolon with a different alignment, so that you can play up a non-evil character than signed an infernal pact for a devil. Or a neutral or evil character with a 'guardian angel' trying to redeem him. Or whatever.
That's a pretty cool idea. Makes me wonder what kind of class abilities such an archetype would have in place of its regular features.

Not sure it would have to give anything up. Just picking an outsider subtype and a corresponding alignment isn't a power boost in and of itself.

Maybe link it to the 'eidolon models' somehow so that if you've decided you want a LE devil for an eidolon, you have to buy evolutions listed for devils. Maybe reduced evolution points in exchange for certain free evolutions at various levels (especially if it's a racial power not normally available via normal evolutions, like maybe Genie eidolons could get wish 1/week at 17th level or something.)

But that's mostly to prevent characters that pick Angel and then make it a multi-tentacled horror with poison attacks. It could be left on the honor system.

Genie Bound Noble

This was a summoner archetype I created a while back that did this specifically for genies. I could imagine something similar could be done for Devils (with free curses) and Angels (free healings/miracles).

But I suspect the summoner talk might be a slight threadjack as there's more to the product then the one class.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

True. If you want to create another thread, I'd be happy to continue discussing it.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Odraude wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion
Yeah, that's my biggest worry. I really hope they don't do this.
If it makes anyone feel better... I'm not going to be one of the authors on this book, nor am I going to be much involved with its outlining or its development.

Hey -- it is an interesting idea if somebody can work out all of the fiddly details. I also liked the idea of "siloing" the evolutions to limit specialization as a combat monster. Anyway, I am really curious to see what is done with this class.

Contributor

Well Jason, five pages later and it seems pretty clear that the unchained summoner is going to be a tough beast to tackle.

Based upon your comments in the skald thread, I guess you're going to be the one who tackles it, eh? ;-P
Silver Crusade
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Specific Summoner conversation to be continued in linked thread.
Drock11 wrote:
Owen KC Stephens wrote:
Current best guess is pdfs before Gen Con, print shortly after Gen Con. Once we have print books, shipping them out to patrons first is going to be a big priority.
Off topic, but is there any estimate when the surveys with be sent out for that kickstarter? I can only assume it will be shortly before the PDFs get sent out. It's either that or something really went wrong as I never got one.

Rather than derail this thread, let's talk about any Advanced Bestiary questions in its own thread.

I know we don't need to worry about wishlists, but one thing that has come up in discussions among my current gaming group is the Paladin. Specifically, Paladins for all alignments. That would be nice.
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the one thing I don't want to see, is paladins of different alignments
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James Jacobs wrote:
Odraude wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion
Yeah, that's my biggest worry. I really hope they don't do this.
If it makes anyone feel better... I'm not going to be one of the authors on this book, nor am I going to be much involved with its outlining or its development.

Now i feel worse about it! I was hoping they'd reign in the summoner with that method. Any time you give people the kind of options the summoner does they WILL find a way to abuse it.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Odraude wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion
Yeah, that's my biggest worry. I really hope they don't do this.
If it makes anyone feel better... I'm not going to be one of the authors on this book, nor am I going to be much involved with its outlining or its development.
Now i feel worse about it! I was hoping they'd reign in the summoner with that method. Any time you give people the kind of options the summoner does they WILL find a way to abuse it.

Yeah, bums me out too. James' vision of the summoner is exactly in line with what I'd like. My first reaction on hearing about this book was the hope that James would be tapped to lead this particular design.

As written, I'm one of those GMs who doesn't allow summoners at my table.
3 people marked this as a favorite.
ikarinokami wrote:
the one thing I don't want to see, is paladins of different alignments

We will agree to disagree. I want to see faith-charged warriors of every alignment. Maybe not smiting, but they do need to be divinely charged.

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Paladin's aren't 'faith-charged warriors' though, they are fueled by the powers of Law and Good, Righteousness and Justice.

They don't draw their power from any specific God, they get their power from their dedication to their code and ethics and upstanding moral integrity.

Paladins of every alignment just wouldn't work, at least not if you want it to resemble the current Paladin.

A Paladin of each alignment would require the introduction of 7 more base classes because each alignment would be very different and have different goals, different abilities and different features.

I mean, take the various Aura's that a Paladin would have, what would be the equivalent of for the 7 remaining alignments?

What would the Smites of a Neutral Paladin be? Would it function like the spontaneous cure/channel of Clerics where they have to choose between Smite Good and Smite Evil? If so, what's the point?

Just sounds to me like trying to argue for a Paladin of each alignment is a very niche desire that is highly unlikely to see the light of day. It would also take up a lot of text in a book, a kin to an alternate system (like Words of Power) except unlikely to be used as much.
Grand Lodge
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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Tels wrote:
Paladins of every alignment just wouldn't work, at least not if you want it to resemble the current Paladin.

Sure it would. It has before. James Jacobs even wrote just such an article in Dragon.

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Joseph Wilson wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Odraude wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion
Yeah, that's my biggest worry. I really hope they don't do this.
If it makes anyone feel better... I'm not going to be one of the authors on this book, nor am I going to be much involved with its outlining or its development.
Now i feel worse about it! I was hoping they'd reign in the summoner with that method. Any time you give people the kind of options the summoner does they WILL find a way to abuse it.

Yeah, bums me out too. James' vision of the summoner is exactly in line with what I'd like. My first reaction on hearing about this book was the hope that James would be tapped to lead this particular design.

As written, I'm one of those GMs who doesn't allow summoners at my table.

See, I think that it's possible to have that level of customization while still reining the balance issues. And hell, it might even be possible to compromise and combine the two ideas. Have a more limited, but still customizable, eidolon with the option for "outsider packages". Outsider companions could have a list of evolutions that make them the outsider they are at level one. So those of us that enjoy the ever-changing aspect of the current eidolon are happy, and those that want just an animal companion are happy too.

Don't think I completely disregard JJ's opinions on the summoner. He's a smart individual who's advice I always take to heart as a DM and designer. I honestly agree with James Jacobs about the Summoner spell list. It needs to be looked at and redone desperately. And I think the Synthesist Summoner should be redone to be more in line with a Druid's Wild Shape. But I feel gutting the eidolon for balance and verisimilitude would be a missed opportunity on a cool and fun rule set.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Tels wrote:
Paladins of every alignment just wouldn't work, at least not if you want it to resemble the current Paladin.
Sure it would. It has before. James Jacobs even wrote just such an article in Dragon.

I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall JJ not liking that article too much. I'd have to find the post about it though.

EDIT Found it

And a more recent one with more info
Grand Lodge
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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Well of course. Doesn't mean it won't work.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Well of course. Doesn't mean it won't work.

I think a part of it was that it didn't work and that the Warpriest seems to fill the niche.

I don't really have a horse in the "Paladins of All Alignments" race though. I could take it or leave it :)

There was, however, a much more widely-used collection of paladins of other alignment in Unearthed Arcana, which are all available for viewing here due to being OGC. Pathfinder Unchained is pathfinder's answer to UA, so this is the perfect place to put similar variants.
I can say though that I'm not particularly eager to see yet another rendition of different-alignment paladin variants, because it's already easy for GMs to do. And, for GMs too inexperienced to do it, there are the previous non-LG paladin variants, plus a huge amount of homebrew available for free. If this is suppose to be a product worth paying for, it should have alterations which are do difficult for the typical GM to make on their own.

...although, given that one of the 'revolutionary ideas' given so far is a full-BAB monk, maybe I shouldn't be so hopeful.
137ben wrote:

There was, however, a much more widely-used collection of paladins of other alignment in Unearthed Arcana, which are all available for viewing here due to being OGC. Pathfinder Unchained is pathfinder's answer to UA, so this is the perfect place to put similar variants.

I can say though that I'm not particularly eager to see yet another rendition of different-alignment paladin variants, because it's already easy for GMs to do. And, for GMs too inexperienced to do it, there are the previous non-LG paladin variants, plus a huge amount of homebrew available for free. If this is suppose to be a product worth paying for, it should have alterations which are do difficult for the typical GM to make on their own.

...although, given that one of the 'revolutionary ideas' given so far is a full-BAB monk, maybe I shouldn't be so hopeful.

Idk, you're glancing over a lot of interesting ideas that they list there, like the alternative magic items rules and the resource pool for martial characters. I don't think Unchained is supposed to be revolutionary, but it is hopefully going to deliver in some fun and interesting options that many fans have been clamoring for.

I'm super interested in this. The rogue remains one of my favorite classes, and I'm always up for new takes on it. Additionally, I've made many...slights of hand over the years as far as mechanics and math go in favor of fluff because I'm absolutely terrible at math, so some new math-lite mechanics sounds super neato as well :D
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Odraude wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion
Yeah, that's my biggest worry. I really hope they don't do this.
If it makes anyone feel better... I'm not going to be one of the authors on this book, nor am I going to be much involved with its outlining or its development.

That's a shame. I find that you are one of the very best writers at Paizo (along with Brandon Hodge... who really should get more work with you guys, especially for AP modules) and your idea of a Summoner which summons specific outsiders was much more in the vein of what I imagined a Summoner to be than the actual product.

137ben wrote:

There was, however, a much more widely-used collection of paladins of other alignment in Unearthed Arcana, which are all available for viewing here due to being OGC. Pathfinder Unchained is pathfinder's answer to UA, so this is the perfect place to put similar variants.

I can say though that I'm not particularly eager to see yet another rendition of different-alignment paladin variants, because it's already easy for GMs to do. And, for GMs too inexperienced to do it, there are the previous non-LG paladin variants, plus a huge amount of homebrew available for free. If this is suppose to be a product worth paying for, it should have alterations which are do difficult for the typical GM to make on their own.

...although, given that one of the 'revolutionary ideas' given so far is a full-BAB monk, maybe I shouldn't be so hopeful.

I gotta say, I love those three alt paladins!

While I understand it's easy to make these changes, even for an inexperienced DM I believe their is value in Paizo being the one to print them. Plenty of DMs allow Paizo material only and if it's Paizo written it may even be allowed in PFS.

Iave no beef at all about characters (or the vancian magic system). I'm much more interested in the alternate sytems for character actions - [wishlist]particluarly if it's: new combat system that doesn't bog down at higher levels; flight and new stealth/prception/darkness rule [/wishlist]

Cheers
Mark
Odraude wrote:
See, I think that it's possible to have that level of customization while still reining the balance issues. And hell, it might even be possible to compromise and combine the two ideas. Have a more limited, but still customizable, eidolon with the option for "outsider packages". Outsider companions could have a list of evolutions that make them the outsider they are at level one. So those of us that enjoy the ever-changing aspect of the current eidolon are happy, and those that want just an animal companion are happy too.

I also think that combining the full customization method with the 'animal companion' method could be a good path to go down.

In fact, I think it would be cool if we could pick from a list of more specific animal companion-like base forms that are modeled after different types of outsiders. Then each base form could be modified by a limited list of evolutions. For example, angels would get celestial traits and weapon proficency by default, and then could be customized with various elemental attacks and spells (but not claws or tentacle attacks, lol).

If the new summoner does go down this route, I would actually recommend that the entire animal companion list be allowed as 'base forms' as a way of emulating the various celestial/fiendish animals on the summon monster list. Give each animal the option of having an alignment or elemental template to give it the propper planar flavor.

I still think the Barbarian is fine the way it is. I will love to see what they are doing with the Rogue and Monk. But I will more then likely not be happy with the Summoner.

As much as I would love to see a new Sorcerer and Fighter, of all the classes that could use a real revamp I would say the Samurai. I would love to see a Samurai that uses Ki to penetrate hardness/DR, to deflect physical, ranged, and some magical attacks, and release energy blasts from there sword. Who could have an ancestral weapon that becomes magical and functions only in there hands and can gain abilities like flaming and axiomatic. Also some bonus feats like cleave, power attack, sunder, and vital strike would be nice.
Scarab Sages
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ikarinokami wrote:
I'm think with regards to the summoner they might do what JJ suggested once, which is for the class of have a specific creature that levels up with you, much like an animal companion

That is the one thing most summoners don't want. The freedom to design your own eidolon is what makes the class so versatile, concept wise.

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Adam B. 135 wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
the one thing I don't want to see, is paladins of different alignments
We will agree to disagree. I want to see faith-charged warriors of every alignment. Maybe not smiting, but they do need to be divinely charged.

I think the Warpriest was conceived with this very notion in mind.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

But warpreists don't get hella saving throw bonuses, bro!
Kryzbyn wrote:
But warpreists don't get hella saving throw bonuses, bro!

With a Swift Action spell, they can.

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Expected April 2015?

I smell a preemptive April Fool's joke...
Kairos Dawnfury wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
But warpreists don't get hella saving throw bonuses, bro!
With a Swift Action spell, they can.

I'm... Not really seeing it. Closest I got was Wrathful Mantle, which scales slowly and doesn't stack with resistance cloaks. What spell did you have in mind?

I was more just highlighting a different ability they have, their self buffs, than specific 1 for 1.

Perhaps they meant Bestow Grace? It lets you temporally get a sacred bonus equal to your charisma modifier.
David Neilson wrote:
Perhaps they meant Bestow Grace? It lets you temporally get a sacred bonus equal to your charisma modifier.

Would be an excellent spell for a warpriest archetype that's based on charisma instead of wisdom, but it's a paladin only spell. :-/

Apologies, Bestow Grace of the Champion. Which is higher level spell, but does give you charisma to your saves, and apparently looks to stack with Bestow Grace.
David Neilson wrote:
Apologies, Bestow Grace of the Champion. Which is higher level spell, but does give you charisma to your saves, and apparently looks to stack with Bestow Grace.

Of course, the problem with that, as with Bestow Grace, is that they're really only worth bothering with if you've got the Charisma.

Scarab Sages

The paladin's bonus to saves is only worth bothering with if you have the charisma.

Admittedly, but it was the only spell I could think of off the top of my head. I suppose there are the various Protection Spells, and there are a few spells like Suppress Charms and Compulsions.

An excellent spell, but the warpriest will never get access to it - it's 7th level on the cleric list, the warpriest never goes above level 6.
Webstore Gninja Minion
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Expected April 2015?

I smell a preemptive April Fool's joke...

It's not.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Expected April 2015?

I smell a preemptive April Fool's joke...

Actually, this is now in line of their original announcement, which was for a Spring release.

For whatever reason, when the product description was originaly put up, it stated August 2015.
Paizo Employee Lead Designer
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For those who are interested, yes I am the one designing the summoner. As for the ideas of other folks around the office, I always showcase off my concepts and let others throw in their ideas, concerns, and criticisms. Its how the process works.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
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