Ultimate Relationships (PFRPG) PDF

4.30/5 (based on 4 ratings)

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Ultimate Relationships contains a system for relationships that provides a meaningful progression and story for the significant NPCs your PCs might encounter in the course of a campaign, including secrets to uncover as the relationship progresses, and hurdles for the PC and the NPC to overcome together. Unlike other relationship systems that bottleneck on certain skills, often Diplomacy, Ultimate Relationships allows everyone to progress and reveal the NPC’s story at their own rate; it just might take some characters longer than others.

This product contains a set of core relationship rules for making these kinds of interactions between PCs and NPCs a rich and vibrant part of your campaign. They are suitable for use in any campaign, but for groups playing in the official published Adventure Paths we will also be releasing a series of modules featuring the core NPCs from those Adventure Paths, as well as new NPCs introduced in the respective Adventure Path Plug-Ins from Legendary Games.

The first such product, Imperial Relationships, describes how to use these rules in the Far Eastern Adventure Path, including four relationship links, one each for the Caravan Master, Destined Empress, Elven Protector, and Mystic Seer, with further modules to come to further expand the available NPC relationships in that Adventure Path as well as others.

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4.30/5 (based on 4 ratings)

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A Great System

5/5

This is a great system to use in your game. Since Endzeitgeist has already analysed it, and there is seldom something to add to his reviews, I just want to give you a glimps into my handling of Ultimate Rulership at my gaming table.

After playing Jade Regent with the help of Imperial Relationship and the add ons to it, I used Ultimate Relationship to spice up Frog God Games Slumbering Tsar by building a few of the NPC in the Camp along the rules of Ultimate Relationship and adding NPCs of Coliseum Morpheum by Rite Publishing into the mix, also "converted" into Ultimate Rulership.

My group is at level 11 right now and they are having a blast, spending more and more time in the Camp or taking NPCs with them to work on them while adventuring, for instance a certain Ranger of Skeribars team (I won't spoiler, don't worry).

I can only recommend using Ultimate Relationship in your campaigns and I hope there will be a lot more NPCs for the diverse Adventure Paths in the future, like those already in Imperial Relationships. Keep on with your good work! Please!!


An Endzeitgeist.com review of the revised version

5/5

This pdf clocks in at 14 pages, 1 page front cover, 1 page inside front cover, 1 page editorial, 1 page SRD, 1 page ToC, 2 pages of introduction, 1 page table-index, 1 page advertisement, 1 page back cover, leaving us with 4 pages of content, so let's take a look!

We've all been there - a key-NPC just is more interesting to the players than a given module anticipated - whether as for romantic interests or just for the purpose of being buddies, the social component of interaction between characters is pretty much a component often neglected in PFRPG. Now this pdf provides a concise, no-frills base system to track how players and NPCs interact with one another. Basically, relationships are codified in 10 ranks, with rank 4, 7 and 10 being milestones. the default rank is 0, with 1 representing a basic alliance. Much like what happens behind the scenes with videogames from Mass Effect to The Walking Dead, these relationships are codified via the tracking of camaraderie points.

When a PC acts in concordance with a specific NPC, the PC gets 1 - 2 camaraderie points, with contrary actions potentially decreasing relationships. Whenever a PC levels up, he can assign 2 camaraderie points to assign to an NPC to represent the PC spending extra time with that NPC. Camaraderie starts at 0 for each new rank, but ranks are NOT lost due to camaraderie-loss - instead, the PC suffers a penalty according to negative camaraderie points. The higher the rank, the more camaraderie points one requires to rank up. Once the PC has accumulated enough camaraderie points to rank up, a talk is required, potentially also requiring a skill check or more. Failing to rank up does provide bonuses to future checks, so, much like in the Persona games, your relationships will not stagnate. Finally, there would be the component of affinities - essentially a representation on how a character interacts with a PC depending on diverse circumstances: A xenophobic dwarf may, for example, be a tough nut to crack for your elven character, while other dwarves find establishing a connection easier.

There also are so-called milestones (on the nit-picky side - the first reference to them points towards page XX, instead of the correct page-number) - one can determine these via providing about 5 per AP-book, with each providing different qualities of the interactions and gifts via a solid table of DCs - craftsmanship and repetition of such acts determine the target DC of these interactions to get camaraderie points. Rivalries are also covered in these contexts. A PC with a campaign-specific trait begins with a chosen NPC at rank 2, with +2 points towards rank 3.

Ranks achieved also net the PC XP-rewards and additionally, NPCs and PCs may actually end up with tangible, rules-relevant benefits from better relationships. EDIT: The system, generally, remains untouched, though the revised edition does offer a couple of subtle changes - for one, the pdf now provides advice for using these rules beyond the frame of the 6-book-AP-structure, with the imho most important change now being that the pdf does provide an easy formula you can use with e.g. mega-adventures and similar, different set-ups - yes, including downtime. Additionally, advice on affinity, for example, has been provided. Finally, the pdf mentions the possibility of redemption paths of evil characters in the future...interesting!

Conclusion:

Editing and formatting are very good, though not perfect. Layout adheres to legendary Games' beautiful full-color two-column standard and the pdf comes fully bookmarked for your convenience. The pdf provides a solid array of nice full-color artworks.

Mark Seifter's relationship system per se is absolutely awesome and at 2 bucks, very affordable to boot. At this length, I did not expect fully fleshed out relationships herein, but I do believe that this pdf would have didactically benefited from one or two sample relationships to illustrate the system in game - if you want the examples, check out Imperial Relationships or the Ultimate Relationships-series. This is the nitpick-category of complaining, though.

Significantly more important, for my purposes at least, is the fact that this revised edition does offer rules for non-6-book-AP-relationships, which basically renders the revised edition universally useful as opposed to the self-imposed restrictions of the earlier formula. This instantly catapults this inexpensive, cool pdf to a new final verdict of 5 stars + seal of approval.

Endzeitgeist out.


3/5

I wasn't too thrilled with this.

From the description I expected a more robust way to use Ultimate Campaign's relationship subsystem or a simpler way to do it. But overall I felt that the rules inside were more complex without enough benefit to use it as opposed to the relationship rules in Ultimate Campaign. It also seems to mostly function within the context of an adventure path meaning it takes some work and guessing to do this with a module or homebrew campaign. That may sit well enough with some people so I can't judge it too harshly but there just isn't enough in here and no real reason to not just use Paizo's relationship rules out of the box.

One thing to note, This product is a companion piece to Imperial Relationship. Its less valued without it so I'm giving my star rating to both PDFs as if they were the same product. The star rating for both is 3 stars. While both PDFs essentially make for three incredibly interesting NPCs to interact with the need to do this with a new, and to me more cumbersome, relationship system makes this a product I don't really need.


Want NPCs to matter to your players? You want this book.

4/5

REVISED - NOW BASED ON UPDATED VERSION

Legendary Games are one of my go-to publishers for quality crunch supplements to enhance my Pathfinder RPG. The Ultimate series takes rules subsystems from Paizo's products that need a bit of love or extra detail, and gives them what they need in spades.

Ultimate Relationships is no exception, taking the Relationship rules (originally from the Jade Regent adventure path, and updated in Ultimate Campaign), and cranking them up to eleven.

Ever had a long-term NPC that the PCs talk to every time they're in town, but who still treats them the same as the first time they met? Or had a love-interest who seems to take forever to actually show any interest? This product gives you the rules to make those relationships develop as the campaign goes on.

The Good
Ultimate Relationships provides a very solid (and extremely well-written) expansion to the development of PC relationships with key NPCs in your adventures. The mechanics allow for a great deal of depth and detail in what PCs learn about the NPCs, and provide a fantastic metric for knowing what the NPCs thinks of each PC.

The basic mechanic is gaining Camaraderie Points. These can be gained passively (by performing actions that the particular NPC appreciates), actively (by the PC going out of their way to have a positive interaction with the NPC), or simply by leveling up. When your character has a certain number of Camaraderie Points with an NPC, you get the opportunity (one or more checks, usually skill checks) to increase your relationship rank with them (ranks range from 1 to 10, with 1 being "I've met them" and 10 being "they are my bestest ever bud/lover/confidant"). Gaining ranks isn't hard, but it is intended to be specifically tailored to the NPC in question, and should involve specific circumstances and interesting skills/abilities/checks where appropriate so that the PC can't just max out Sense Motive and Diplomacy and blast their way up to Rank 10. This system favours multi-dimensional characters with diverse interests and abilites, a well as interesting and deep NPCs.

The Bad
This product suffers quite drastically from a lack of fleshed-out examples to explain some of the new mechanics. Fortunately, Legendary Games also offers Imperial Relationships (for use with the Jade Regent adventure path, but see below), which gives those examples.

There's also a little bit of an issue with new concepts and mechanics not being fully explained. Most of the time it's not a big deal - the detailed rules regarding Camaraderie Points explain what they are, how you obtain them, and what they're for, but there's not quite as much explanation about what exactly a "Milestone" is, though there's plenty of rules about what your character can do in a Milestone, and rules about how often they should occur, but nothing about what they actually are. I'm pretty sure that a Milestone is best described as "an opportunity for the PC to actively engage with the NPC and have a positive interaction with them", so you need Milestones to increase your rank with them, and you can use them to gain Camaraderie Points, but there aren't any examples. Admittedly, that's a difficult thing to manage in a rules-heavy product like this one, so I understand it, but I think I would have liked "such as agreeing to have dinner together, or getting locked in a prison cell together, or watching a sunset together".

What I did
I bought this product, I chatted in the product thread, and I quickly bought Imperial Relationships. I then promptly sat down and fleshed out some of my NPCs using these rules. I haven't had that much fun writing up an NPC in a long time.

The Conclusion
Excellent, solid product, with some shortcomings that are utterly eliminated by purchasing Imperial Relationships (honestly, even if you don't plan to ever run Jade Regent (I don't) or don't own it (I don't), get it if you're buying Ultimate Relationships). If you like some good crunchy rules that allow for enhanced interactions with your NPCs, then this is what you are looking for.


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Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Zaister wrote:
Would it be possible to put up the update on the Legendary website for those who have bought it there? Currently I cannot even access the original PDF that I bought there.

Send me an email at makeyourgamelegendary@gmail.com and I'll send you the updated file.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Revised Review done!

I've added a fair amount to the detail, and removed one of my gripes and replaced it with another. Overall the rating remains the same for this - 4 stars.

For me it could get a full 5, if there were detailed examples - it wouldn't even need a fully fleshed-out NPC, just an example normal rank, an example breakthrough rank, and a few thought-prompting situations that could be used as milestones. Everything else is so brilliantly detailed it doesn't need any more.


Updated to reflect the changes made. For 2 bucks, I consider this pretty much the epitome of a nice, self-contained system.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nice to see that last star on your review, Endy!

Combined with Mark's input on this thread, I would have given it 5 myself, but I can't quite get over Milestones (super-picky of me, and Mark's been so brilliant about engaging on it that I feel quite guilty to stick with 4 stars myself).

This is a solid product, extremely useful, and it gets a huge recommendation from me as the go-to guide on having interesting and dynamic NPC relationships, it's just not quite perfect.


I absolutely get your reasoning, Chem! I was oscillating between your stance and the one I settled on and used my review on Incantations for Zombie Sky Press from back in the day as a guideline - another 2-buck self-contained system. For consistency's sake, I ended up upgrading the verdict all the way, but if that hadn't been a precedence for consistency's sake, I may have ended up with your stance. Anyways, I enjoy reading your well-reasoned reviews! :D


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Got plenty more in the works (mostly LG stuff, it seems), just need to get in the right mood. Planning to do Imperial Relationships next, just to round this product off, then squeeze the individual UR minis in between more Mythic Monsters, and see what else I've got on my shelves.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I also think that having an expansion for the "Kingbreaker" AP would be a fantastic idea. I incorporated Dudemeister's Venture Capital modifications and one of the deals that the players took to gain extra BP was that they had to agree that any of the PCs who were kingdom leaders had to be married. One of my players had managed to get the hand of one of the daughters from a minor branch of House Lebeda (I broke down the Houses so that there was the Main House and then a bunch of smaller Branch Houses that shared the same last name but served to accumulate wealth and prestige as a tithe to the Main House; that way players can still do political deals with the Noble Houses but without being directly debted or mired by the civil war politics of Brevoy). That still leaves me with 2 PCs and one GM-controlled PC to arrange marriages for. And they want the journey itself to be memorable.

Hence why I like these products, :)

Cheers!

CB out.


With your Winter AP line starting up (two products, anxiously waiting on more...), any updates on the possibility/timeline for a Winter Relationships book...


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's a cost-benefit thing, which from the comments Mark has made makes it a tough call.

It takes a long time to do a full relationship write-up for a single NPC. I've managed it for a few, and it pays off at the table, but from LG's perspective, they have to balance sales against Mark's freelancer cost, development, art, layout, and a few dozen other things, and if a product doesn't sell (and unfortunately it looks like the singles just don't sell very well), there's not likely to be more in the series.

Personally, I'd love to see some generic NPCs, as well as ones from the Righteous Crusade AP, and I'm more likely to buy collections than I am singles, but I can't begrudge Mark and Jason making business decisions based on past sales experience.

Thus my desire to do whatever I can to make this particular line of products keep going.

Designer

Chemlak wrote:

It's a cost-benefit thing, which from the comments Mark has made makes it a tough call.

It takes a long time to do a full relationship write-up for a single NPC. I've managed it for a few, and it pays off at the table, but from LG's perspective, they have to balance sales against Mark's freelancer cost, development, art, layout, and a few dozen other things, and if a product doesn't sell (and unfortunately it looks like the singles just don't sell very well), there's not likely to be more in the series.

Personally, I'd love to see some generic NPCs, as well as ones from the Righteous Crusade AP, and I'm more likely to buy collections than I am singles, but I can't begrudge Mark and Jason making business decisions based on past sales experience.

Thus my desire to do whatever I can to make this particular line of products keep going.

Yup. The secret for GMs with this system is that you don't have to do all the work of detailing all 10 ranks right away; just figure out the overall arc and then keep yourself ahead of the PCs' interest in the NPC (or perhaps challenge yourself on the fly and don't come up with the overall arc even). This allowed me to have 54+ of these for my home game without expending impossible amounts of effort, since most of them the PCs didn't pursue very far. But the "First Rule of Dungeoncraft" method doesn't work for a published product, and making one of these that's really thoughtful and expresses the NPC's personality takes a while.

@Sales stuff: That's almost entirely right (the other discussion of that has been in the Cassisian Detective thread). One difference is that Legendary usually actually works with royalties rather than rates, if you're wondering about why I said the low sales led to personal burnout for me on finishing the later singles, rather than it leading to someone at Legendary being hesitant on ordering more. Without getting into numbers, I will say that the singles take me generally longer per word than most things I write and have by last check made if I recall somewhere around 10x less per word than my usual per-word rate (Compare to the main UR which has made more than my usual per-word rate; so lots of people are excited about the system, they just haven't been buying the singles). So assuming synergy from having more options out there cancelled out fatigue (which is most likely being generous), it would take 10 of the singles to equal the main rules. Now, that was before this new sale, and the number is always slowly increasing, so things might change, and I will say I'm thrilled by the reception to these main rules!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ah, I wasn't sure which pay method LG used (should have guessed, though). Thanks for the insight, Mark.

I am, as you might have guessed, hugely enthusiastic about these rules, and want to see more examples (I think it's fair to say that the rank-ups you've generated are an order of magnitude more thoughtful and creative than my own ideas).

If it's not too much to ask, where does Imperial Relationships fit into this discussion? It's superb, and raises the question of singles versus compilations (with a side-order of DO NOT BURN YOURSELF OUT for good measure).

Designer

Chemlak wrote:

Ah, I wasn't sure which pay method LG used (should have guessed, though). Thanks for the insight, Mark.

I am, as you might have guessed, hugely enthusiastic about these rules, and want to see more examples (I think it's fair to say that the rank-ups you've generated are an order of magnitude more thoughtful and creative than my own ideas).

If it's not too much to ask, where does Imperial Relationships fit into this discussion? It's superb, and raises the question of singles versus compilations (with a side-order of DO NOT BURN YOURSELF OUT for good measure).

Imperial is in between, but considering it released alongside UltRel as the only source of UltRel-style NPC write-ups at the time, I'd expect it to have a bump. It also involved four NPCs that people would be extremely likely to want to use with relationship rules and had some other differences.

Thanks so much for the kind words and for the review of ImpRel (I'll probably talk about it more in the ImpRel thread)!

Designer

Swashbucklersdc wrote:
With your Winter AP line starting up (two products, anxiously waiting on more...), any updates on the possibility/timeline for a Winter Relationships book...

I will say that, if we do find a way to keep doing these, two of the NPCs in my archives, while I wrote them for my Far Eastern home game, are perfect for a Winter AP

Very Mild Spoilers for both APs and/or spoilers of possible future relationships:
A huldra masquerade reveler struggling with the idea of mortality after murdering someone she loved expecting they would come back like in Faerie and a winter wolf trapped in human form by magical experimentation who thus has identity disphoria.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Always a pleasure, Mark, and as I've said elsewhere, each one of these NPCs gives me great ideas for NPCs in my home campaign, which is probably why I'm constantly harping on about generic NPC UltRel write-ups (if only it wasn't so hard to persuade my players to have their characters get to know NPCs, but that's another matter entirely). I'm also hugely aware of the effort involved, and you'd need compelling characters, background, and a whole host of other things before even getting to the UltRel stuff.

I really want this to be a going concern as a product line, because it provides something for GMs that can be tough to manage at times: good, developing relationships with NPCs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Swashbucklersdc wrote:
With your Winter AP line starting up (two products, anxiously waiting on more...), any updates on the possibility/timeline for a Winter Relationships book...

I will say that, if we do find a way to keep doing these, two of the NPCs in my archives, while I wrote them for my Far Eastern home game, are perfect for a Winter AP

** spoiler omitted **

Oooohhhh....

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Swashbucklersdc wrote:
With your Winter AP line starting up (two products, anxiously waiting on more...), any updates on the possibility/timeline for a Winter Relationships book...

I will say that, if we do find a way to keep doing these, two of the NPCs in my archives, while I wrote them for my Far Eastern home game, are perfect for a Winter AP

** spoiler omitted **

Nice. Both of those sound pretty neat. :)


Chemlak wrote:

Always a pleasure, Mark, and as I've said elsewhere, each one of these NPCs gives me great ideas for NPCs in my home campaign, which is probably why I'm constantly harping on about generic NPC UltRel write-ups (if only it wasn't so hard to persuade my players to have their characters get to know NPCs, but that's another matter entirely). I'm also hugely aware of the effort involved, and you'd need compelling characters, background, and a whole host of other things before even getting to the UltRel stuff.

I really want this to be a going concern as a product line, because it provides something for GMs that can be tough to manage at times: good, developing relationships with NPCs.

A few of the NPCs I made up for my home game of a Far Eastern AP would be even more generically useful, though I believe that all three relationship singles in the Ultimate Relationships line so far are usable in a wide range of games (the least generically usable is probably the Viking Shieldmaiden, even though she isn't actually a Far Eastern character herself).


If the current format of sample relationships doesn't pan out...well, as an alternative, what about general relationship toolkits for themes? Milestones, boons, etc. for piratey, viking, far eastern, varisian, urban, horror, kingdom building campaigns, for example (with, perhaps, nods to when in Skull & Shackles they'd be appropriate). You know, thematic expansions? They'd still retain usefulness for APs and have a broader appeal for people not using APs? Since the base system sells well, perhaps taking the focus from the particular into the broad may be an option. Just an idea, of course!


Endzeitgeist wrote:
If the current format of sample relationships doesn't pan out...well, as an alternative, what about general relationship toolkits for themes? Milestones, boons, etc. for piratey, viking, far eastern, varisian, urban, horror, kingdom building campaigns, for example (with, perhaps, nods to when in Skull & Shackles they'd be appropriate). You know, thematic expansions? They'd still retain usefulness for APs and have a broader appeal for people not using APs? Since the base system sells well, perhaps taking the focus from the particular into the broad may be an option. Just an idea, of course!

Hmm. That's an interesting idea. Off-hand, I don't think that would work. Each character is different based on that character's story and personality, and so I don't think generic milestones without characters in mind would be fully possible. You could list a skill and a DC, but UR itself tells you how to calculate those DCs, and the main thing is you couldn't really have the character bio information and breakthroughs. I try to write products that I would be excited to use for my games, and it's the human element of these NPCs that really make me excited about the ones I've written so far. It's probably not surprising that the base system is going to have to sell at least somewhat better than the products that use it (since you need the base system to use them, so it has to be more), and part of it might simply be a factor of rules systems and subsystems selling more than worked-out examples because not as many GMs are confident that they can create a new system from scratch as are confident they can use the system to create stuff themselves. It's interesting, and it does show that splitting Ultimate and Imperial Relationships (at one point way way back it was a single product, and back even before that when I first imagined it, before I worked at Paizo or had the idea picked up by Legendary, I even had the insane idea to have the whole UR line as one enormous compilation product with the rules and the 50+ relationships) was a really good idea, even though it leaves UR without any worked-out examples.


Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Swashbucklersdc wrote:
With your Winter AP line starting up (two products, anxiously waiting on more...), any updates on the possibility/timeline for a Winter Relationships book...

I will say that, if we do find a way to keep doing these, two of the NPCs in my archives, while I wrote them for my Far Eastern home game, are perfect for a Winter AP

** spoiler omitted **

Oh I would love to see the one about

Spoiler:
the identity-challenged winter wolf
. Especially if they're based on the one from what I still think of as 'the Baba Yaga AP'. I liked that one and I long hoped someone among the 3rd party publishers would do more with the character.

Eric Hinkle wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Swashbucklersdc wrote:
With your Winter AP line starting up (two products, anxiously waiting on more...), any updates on the possibility/timeline for a Winter Relationships book...

I will say that, if we do find a way to keep doing these, two of the NPCs in my archives, while I wrote them for my Far Eastern home game, are perfect for a Winter AP

** spoiler omitted **

Oh I would love to see the one about ** spoiler omitted **. Especially if they're based on the one from what I still think of as 'the Baba Yaga AP'. I liked that one and I long hoped someone among the 3rd party publishers would do more with the character.

You could definitely use it there, but you'd need to add in a plot element to cover the source of the malaise.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think Endzeitgeists idea is really, really good.
Doesn´t need to be fleshed out for every single character, but something more along guidelines and examples as well as providing good mechanics goes a long way.
Other APs and adventures can then be used with it and GMs and players can put in some own stuff.
I would certainly like that and know some gaming groups who could make use of it.


Would this product work if divorced from the Pathfinder system? For instance could I use it in other game systems?


The NPC wrote:
Would this product work if divorced from the Pathfinder system? For instance could I use it in other game systems?

Yes, easily. You'd merely need to replace the skill checks and their DCs with appropriate things for the new system and keep the scaling relationship ranks in place.


Rogue Eidolon wrote:
The NPC wrote:
Would this product work if divorced from the Pathfinder system? For instance could I use it in other game systems?
Yes, easily. You'd merely need to replace the skill checks and their DCs with appropriate things for the new system and keep the scaling relationship ranks in place.

Thanks.

Knowing some of the inspirational material for this I thought it might be a good resource for a Persona game.


The NPC wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
The NPC wrote:
Would this product work if divorced from the Pathfinder system? For instance could I use it in other game systems?
Yes, easily. You'd merely need to replace the skill checks and their DCs with appropriate things for the new system and keep the scaling relationship ranks in place.

Thanks.

Knowing some of the inspirational material for this I thought it might be a good resource for a Persona game.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find a better basic framework to use for P3 or P4 style social links in a Persona game.


Rogue Eidolon wrote:
The NPC wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
The NPC wrote:
Would this product work if divorced from the Pathfinder system? For instance could I use it in other game systems?
Yes, easily. You'd merely need to replace the skill checks and their DCs with appropriate things for the new system and keep the scaling relationship ranks in place.

Thanks.

Knowing some of the inspirational material for this I thought it might be a good resource for a Persona game.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find a better basic framework to use for P3 or P4 style social links in a Persona game.

And Persona 5 ;)

With that in mind, how to surprise my players. They are fans of the franchise, but I don't want to reveal its a Persona game until their shadows appear.


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The NPC wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
The NPC wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
The NPC wrote:
Would this product work if divorced from the Pathfinder system? For instance could I use it in other game systems?
Yes, easily. You'd merely need to replace the skill checks and their DCs with appropriate things for the new system and keep the scaling relationship ranks in place.

Thanks.

Knowing some of the inspirational material for this I thought it might be a good resource for a Persona game.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find a better basic framework to use for P3 or P4 style social links in a Persona game.

And Persona 5 ;)

With that in mind, how to surprise my players. They are fans of the franchise, but I don't want to reveal its a Persona game until their shadows appear.

I don't have a PS4, but I have followed up on P5 enough to know that the system has changed but not enough to know how much it changed, so I didn't want to assert it worked for P5 without proof. If it does, even more awesome!


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I added a review for Ultimate Relationships. Please continue generating NPCs for it! Please!!

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Thanks for the great review, Oliver!

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