Creative Director
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AWESOME! Will there be rules for us to create our own technologically advanced weapons that we can fill our campaigns with?
Of course. IN fact, you already know how to do this—it's the same as creating magic items. There's some advice and lots of examples in the Tech Guide though, of course... but the primary focus is to present new items and rules, not a how-to-do-this guide.
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Creative Director
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And yeah... as folks pointed out, this is in the Golarion Campaign Setting Line. It's not world neutral, and therefore it focuses primarily on tech found in Numeria, and within there, focuses primarily on tech that plays a role or COULD play a role in the Iron Gods Adventure Path.
There's still an AWFUL lot of variety in the book though, never fear.
Edit: Actually the chapters should be:Steam Era, Pulp Era, Atomic Era, Information Era, Space(Sci-Fi) Era.
It should also include information on how each of these classes handle these Eras, and provide archetypes to help classes fit them better as well. (example: The Bicker archetype for the barbarian, Rock Star(Skald), Pop Star(Bard) and so on.)
I agree, that does seem to be exactly what the book should cover. Anything before that is pretty much already covered in Golarion, yur list pretty much covers the rest. And the inclusion of archetypes and ideas for how classes handle the different eras would really make the book shine.
I have to wonder if paizo thinks they would lose support for Golarion by publishing a book like we're talking about though. Golarion is their cash cow for sure so it's a reasonable deterrent. My thoughts on it though are that any loss they may experience, if any, would be hardly noticeable. On the flip side they'd get a respectable chunk of business that was once going to other systems. I would continue to purchase the same paizo lines I always have because Golarion's an awesome setting that I love to play in. It's not the only setting I like to play in though. I play multiple games a week and playing the same setting in every game gets old, so I like to mix it up. Cyberpunk is fun as well. If there were a book or a line to support that, paizo would get my money where as right now it goes elsewhere. This is why I was so happy to hear about the tech guide and iron gods, and why I will be even happier to hear of like products:)
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I would love to see a hardcover in the RPG line that adds other tech levels to the game for those who enjoy something a little different. I'm envisioning a book that includes more options for everything from the Renaissance era tech we have touched on all the way through this sort of sci-fi tech. Something setting neutral for folks that want different tech levels, be it steampunk or sci-fi or the weird 20th-Century we saw a glimpse of in Rasputin Must Die!. I am sure there would be calamatous uproar from the community, but having a place on the RPG line would remove it from Golarion cannon and put it purely in the realm of optional.
So, the way to make this happen, is to support books like this one and show that something larger and more inclusive would find it's niche and be worth the investment to produce.
Well, some GMs would say that this being in the hardcover line would mean that it isn't options. But screw them :D
I wanna see Steampunk, Dieselpunk, Magicpunk, Clockpunk, Atompunk, and Cyberpunk rules in here. Maybe even some styles of space (Retro Futurism Space Age of the 50s-70s, Hard Science Fiction, Weird Space Science of the 1800's to early 1900's like War of the Worlds, Barsoom Series, and First Men on the Moon). There are so many popular genres that could be touched on in a book like this. It would be awesome to see. And frankly, it would help me with my time travelling adventure I wanna do :)
I have to wonder if paizo thinks they would lose support for Golarion by publishing a book like we're talking about though. Golarion is their cash cow for sure so it's a reasonable deterrent. My thoughts on it though are that any loss they may experience, if any, would be hardly noticeable. On the flip side they'd get a respectable chunk of business that was once going to other systems. I would continue to purchase the same paizo lines I always have because Golarion's an awesome setting that I love to play in. It's not the only setting I like to play in though. I play multiple games a week and playing the same setting in every game gets old, so I like to mix it up. Cyberpunk is fun as well. If there were a book or a line to support that, paizo would get my money where as right now it goes elsewhere. This is why I was so happy to hear about the tech guide and iron gods, and why I will be even happier to hear of like products:)
Well, their AP line is their bread and butter last I heard. So I think they will be fine. But I'm not a business major so...
for sure, but their AP line depends on the Golarion setting.
Also, I love punk as well, but I doubt we would get all of those sub-genre's. I think chapters devoted to the era's zergtitan mentioned are realistic requests though. I'd be soooo happy to find a chapter devoted to cyberpunk, but the least they could do is devote a couple pages in a sci-fi chapter to it.
Of course nothing could make me happier than a whole hardcover devoted to cyberpunk, but its just not going to happen. Perhaps I should look into writing one myself... lol
Well I could see the book separated into the eras with each of the "punks" done as subsections of the eras.
that would be awesome, i like steampunk a lot too.
Oh I see, this is actually an "Iron Gods Technology Guide", rather than a technology guide needed to run Iron Gods. Fair enough. Still, I hope we see more tech like the things you listed in the future:)Meanwhile...some of us are hoping for a Technology Guide to run with the Pathfinder RPG itself...alas, such is not to happen. Or any other genre. It seems their genre books are limited to the campaign setting only and not the RPG itself.
It appears many of us are hopeful that there will be.
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Honestly, I can't imagine it would be hard to filing off some serial numbers and make it generic. Especially for things like lasers and AI and vortex guns and such. Little conversion and filing and boom, should be a piece of cake.
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Creative Director
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Honestly, I can't imagine it would be hard to filing off some serial numbers and make it generic. Especially for things like lasers and AI and vortex guns and such. Little conversion and filing and boom, should be a piece of cake.
You are 100% correct.
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I would commit terrible atrocities and war crimes just to have an Ultimate Technology. It would fit with the rules for Stone and Bronze Age weapons we have already. I could see them adding more Renaissance tech and Industrial Age tech in addition to the WWI tech, WWII tech, Atomic Age Tech, Information Age Tech, and Future Tech.
Well, you are a demon lord after all. ;)
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Honestly, I can't imagine it would be hard to filing off some serial numbers and make it generic. Especially for things like lasers and AI and vortex guns and such. Little conversion and filing and boom, should be a piece of cake.You are 100% correct.
Sweet. Am I 100% correct in thinking that this book has rules for a gravity gun? :D
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+1 for an Ultimate Technology and/or Advanced Genre Guide.
I really want some solid rules for both science-based tech and "magitech" (particularly starships but also other stuff), as both exist in my own homebrew version of the game worlds. Not all star-travellers can be high-level spellcasters/use high-end magic items, or find just the right gate/portal for planet-hopping.
In the mean time, I will suffer that form of minor despair (thank you, Ambrose Bierce and The Devil's Dictionary) and wait (im)patiently for this Technology Guide.
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Rules for planes, trains, and automobiles:)
"Magitech" would be awesome as well.
While I'd love to see an "Ultimate Technology" or similar, I demand equal rights for an "Ultimate Primitive" book, too. More in-depth rules for bronze and stone age weapons and equipment, barter, pre-literary magic, etc. :D
I'm sorry Cthulhudrew, as much as I hate people rushing in and putting down something another person wants, I just can't support that. We don't need more rules covering a less sophisticated technology that is already supported. A tech guide could be hundreds of pages thick. The section on primitive weapons in Ultimate Combat cover bronze and stone age about as well as they can be covered. Pre-literay magic would just be divine and spontaneous casters, minus any spells resembling tech that doesn't exist in that age.
Well, YMMV, obviously, but I see just as much mileage that can be gotten out of a lo-tech book as a hi-tech one.
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Creative Director
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Sweet. Am I 100% correct in thinking that this book has rules for a gravity gun? :DHonestly, I can't imagine it would be hard to filing off some serial numbers and make it generic. Especially for things like lasers and AI and vortex guns and such. Little conversion and filing and boom, should be a piece of cake.You are 100% correct.
Not 100% correct, no.
Because they're called gravity pistols and gravity rifles. There's other graviton-based devices in the book too—in fact, graviton tech is one of the more powerful types of technological themes in the book, since they do force damage and have force effects.
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Sweet. Am I 100% correct in thinking that this book has rules for a gravity gun? :DHonestly, I can't imagine it would be hard to filing off some serial numbers and make it generic. Especially for things like lasers and AI and vortex guns and such. Little conversion and filing and boom, should be a piece of cake.You are 100% correct.Not 100% correct, no.
Because they're called gravity pistols and gravity rifles. There's other graviton-based devices in the book too—in fact, graviton tech is one of the more powerful types of technological themes in the book, since they do force damage and have force effects.
Great googly moogly.
I think I love you all. Also, is it August yet? This month has gone on for at least six weeks at this point.
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Because they're called gravity pistols and gravity rifles. There's other graviton-based devices in the book too—in fact, graviton tech is one of the more powerful types of technological themes in the book, since they do force damage and have force effects.
Now I want a gravity bloodline, because Graviton was always one of my favorite Marvel villains (both in his Avengers/West Coast Avengers and Thunderbolts appearances!)
2 weeks.....
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2 weeks.....
(Seemed fitting.)
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While I'd love to see an "Ultimate Technology" or similar, I demand equal rights for an "Ultimate Primitive" book, too. More in-depth rules for bronze and stone age weapons and equipment, barter, pre-literary magic, etc. :D
Honestly I could see that covered in Ultimate Technology.
Each chapter would be separated into eras, no? So Just have the following:
Primitive Era: Stone Age and Bronze Age adventuring, with rules for low magic, sword and sorcery, Hellenistic, and sword and sandal gaming. Themes would include low magic, tribalism and animism, survival, and humans transcending from nomadic tribes to sedentary civilizations. Or on the opposite side, high magic with demigods roaming the world doing wild things. Ancient astronauts, cities of wonder that are destined to sink from their hubris, living gods.
Industrial Era: Late Enlightenment through Victorian and Edwardian and ending just during the Interwar period. Classics such as Steam Punk, Gaslight Romances, Pulp Stories, Early Soft Science Fiction, and Sword and Planet. Themes such as the difference engine, the march of industry, eugenics, imperialism, nationalism, exploration, and weird science.
Modern Era: Postwar Modernism to the Information Age. Noir, Dieselpunk, Atompunk, and Contemporary Era genres. Would deal with themes of paranoia, nuclear technology, war, and such.
Future Ara: Beyond the modern era. Science Fiction of all types, from Hard to Soft, Cyberpunk to Post Apocalyptic. Human transcendentalism, exploration, rights of non-humans (robots), oppression... sky's the limit on this one.
So yeah, four chapters on technology of all types. I think we can do it :)
Sweet. Am I 100% correct in thinking that this book has rules for a gravity gun? :DHonestly, I can't imagine it would be hard to filing off some serial numbers and make it generic. Especially for things like lasers and AI and vortex guns and such. Little conversion and filing and boom, should be a piece of cake.You are 100% correct.Not 100% correct, no.
Because they're called gravity pistols and gravity rifles. There's other graviton-based devices in the book too—in fact, graviton tech is one of the more powerful types of technological themes in the book, since they do force damage and have force effects.
Awesome. I am tumescent with anticipation :D
I imagine there are new forms of grenades...
...I wonder if a grenade launcher is among the new weapons. It'd probably be a Heavy Weapon.
...and now I'm picturing a railgun being in there.
...As well as Ion weaponry, which would probably deal nonlethal electric damage (larger amounts of lethal electric damage to machines, similar to the Defoliant Bomb discovery's larger damage vs. plant damage).
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While I'd love to see an "Ultimate Technology" or similar, I demand equal rights for an "Ultimate Primitive" book, too. More in-depth rules for bronze and stone age weapons and equipment, barter, pre-literary magic, etc. :DHonestly I could see that covered in Ultimate Technology.
Each chapter would be separated into eras, no?
That's actually a really great idea! Hadn't even occurred to me, but yeah, I think that would be great. It would increase the overall utility of such a product, as well.
Plus, there was that Primitive Human web-enhancement that Paizo released not too long ago that needs a place. :D
Ooh I have a question about the product. Since we'll get crafting rules for technological items analogous to magic items does this mean that martial classes will realistically be able to craft/enhance their own "magic" weapons?
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While I'd love to see an "Ultimate Technology" or similar, I demand equal rights for an "Ultimate Primitive" book, too. More in-depth rules for bronze and stone age weapons and equipment, barter, pre-literary magic, etc. :DHonestly I could see that covered in Ultimate Technology.
Each chapter would be separated into eras, no?
That's actually a really great idea! Hadn't even occurred to me, but yeah, I think that would be great. It would increase the overall utility of such a product, as well.
Plus, there was that Primitive Human web-enhancement that Paizo released not too long ago that needs a place. :D
Speaking of the Primitive Human, I'd like to see Primitive versions of other races. Primal Halflings, Ancestral Dwarves, First Elves, Firstborn Gnomes, Feral Orcs...
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Developer
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Ooh I have a question about the product. Since we'll get crafting rules for technological items analogous to magic items does this mean that martial classes will realistically be able to craft/enhance their own "magic" weapons?
While technically, yes, crafting technology is covered in the book, doing do requires access to specific manufacturing facilities—military labs, pharmaceutical labs, graviton labs, and so on—which, at least in Golarion, are not common. A GM could make them more easily accessible such that players could craft their own technological items, as long as they possessed the right feats and skills. It really depends on the level of technology a GM wants in her campaign. The rules are there, but the assumption is that these items are found treasure rather than something you can just make without much effort. The "magic shop in every town" effect is something I, at least, tried not to have permeate this book too much, so that tech remains special and mysterious instead of mainstream.
While I'd love to see an "Ultimate Technology" or similar, I demand equal rights for an "Ultimate Primitive" book, too. More in-depth rules for bronze and stone age weapons and equipment, barter, pre-literary magic, etc. :DHonestly I could see that covered in Ultimate Technology.
Each chapter would be separated into eras, no?
That's actually a really great idea! Hadn't even occurred to me, but yeah, I think that would be great. It would increase the overall utility of such a product, as well.
Plus, there was that Primitive Human web-enhancement that Paizo released not too long ago that needs a place. :D
Interesting, I never noticed this. I'll have to take a look.
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Well, if this product sells ten times the average Campaign Setting book, I'm sure we'll eventually get an Ultimate Technology. If it sells worse than average, then I'd guess the odds aren't that good.
While talk on forums is never a bad thing, the real test will be the sales numbers. Which -- even if we're just talking index in relation to other products, and no absolute numbers -- is probably not going to be available to us, ever.
The only thing I can think of for the public to measure a product's popularity is to follow the "Top Sellers" RSS and count how many days/months it stays on the list...
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While technically, yes, crafting technology is covered in the book, doing do requires access to specific manufacturing facilities—military labs, pharmaceutical labs, graviton labs, and so on—which, at least in Golarion, are not common. A GM could make them more easily accessible such that players could craft their own technological items, as long as they possessed the right feats and skills. It really depends on the level of technology a GM wants in her campaign. The rules are there, but the assumption is that these items are found treasure rather than something you can just make without much effort. The "magic shop in every town" effect is something I, at least, tried not to have permeate this book too much, so that tech remains special and mysterious instead of mainstream.Ooh I have a question about the product. Since we'll get crafting rules for technological items analogous to magic items does this mean that martial classes will realistically be able to craft/enhance their own "magic" weapons?
But if we wanted to we could potentially make the tools as available as magic if we were, say, running a Saga(comics) campaign?
Well, if this product sells ten times the average Campaign Setting book, I'm sure we'll eventually get an Ultimate Technology. If it sells worse than average, then I'd guess the odds aren't that good.
While talk on forums is never a bad thing, the real test will be the sales numbers. Which -- even if we're just talking index in relation to other products, and no absolute numbers -- is probably not going to be available to us, ever.
The only thing I can think of for the public to measure a product's popularity is to follow the "Top Sellers" RSS and count how many days/months it stays on the list...
Agreed, and I'd like to point out that there's probably no pages wasted on primitive weapons in this book. So if it sells well, it sells well without that inclusion. I'd like an ultimate tech book one day, but if I bought it and found half the book filled with what is basically anti-tech, I'd be furious. That belongs somewhere else, say, where it has already been placed. I would be hoping for an ultimate tech book to be chock full of advanced tech.
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How about a Technomancer lich whose phylactery is a hard drive filled with the blueprints and source code for all his technology? You want to destroy it, but in doing so, you'd risk losing all of the data stored on it; inventions that could potentially control the balance of power across the Material Plane. Oh, and by the time you're done cracking the encryption, he's already scried and fried you.
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How about a Technomancer lich whose phylactery is a hard drive filled with the blueprints and source code for all his technology? You want to destroy it, but in doing so, you'd risk losing all of the data stored on it; inventions that could potentially control the balance of power across the Material Plane. Oh, and by the time you're done cracking the encryption, he's already scried and fried you.
Pfft... a real Technomancer would invent the Internet and upload his phylactery up to the Web. Once it's on the internet, it lasts forever. The ultimate Computer Virus.
[Edit] The only way to destroy the Phylacernet would be to destroy the internet. But doing that would piss off so many people that an adventuring party would form for the express purpose of hunting down and killing the monsters that destroyed the internet. NEW CAMPAIGN!
It's officially August. Time to start fidgeting uncontrollably.
While technically, yes, crafting technology is covered in the book, doing do requires access to specific manufacturing facilities—military labs, pharmaceutical labs, graviton labs, and so on—which, at least in Golarion, are not common. A GM could make them more easily accessible such that players could craft their own technological items, as long as they possessed the right feats and skills. It really depends on the level of technology a GM wants in her campaign. The rules are there, but the assumption is that these items are found treasure rather than something you can just make without much effort. The "magic shop in every town" effect is something I, at least, tried not to have permeate this book too much, so that tech remains special and mysterious instead of mainstream.
Aside from needing proper labs, will the items have crafting requirements that will favor any particular classes? As it stands, it's not all that hard to pick up Master Craftsman as a martial, but a caster that can provide pre-req spells has a lower DC(sometimes much lower) unless the martial gets creative.
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Creative Director
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Aside from needing proper labs, will the items have crafting requirements that will favor any particular classes? As it stands, it's not all that hard to pick up Master Craftsman as a martial, but a caster that can provide pre-req spells has a lower DC(sometimes much lower) unless the martial gets creative.
Not really, although I guess classes who gain Knowledge (engineering) as a class skill will have a slight advantage.
If you're the GM, you can ignore it. Just say "No gunslingers, no katanas, no X". Easy. I love guns, but there are some games where I don't allow them because it doesn't fit. Other games, I have not allowed elves or psionics or whatnot. More GMs need to learn how to set parameters and not be afraid of saying no.
And if you're a player? Well, why would you join a game that has stuff you don't like in the first place :p
Simple. They're trying to teach people that their way is "The One True Way To Play" and that any other is BadWrongFun.
I, for one, salute Paizo for ignoring these sorts and giving us firearms and other technological stuff in their game. It's been something sorely lacking in these games for quite some time with few exceptions outside of specific game systems like Shadowrun.
A lot of these people's concerns seem to lie with Pathfinder Society, which I can kind of agree with. Even though I'm a huge sci-fi fan and absolutely do not mind mixing fantasy with sci-fi, I think it would be a little ridiculous if technological items started flooding PFS, partly because that would drive away quite a few people. But I'm confident the folks behind PFS know what they're doing in that regard, so we'll see.
That being said, the minute they sanction the Nanite Bloodline in People of the River, you can guarantee I'm going to use that in a heartbeat.
Considering my negative opinions on PFS, I couldn't care less about it :D
Considering my negative opinions on PFS, I couldn't care less about it :D
That's fine, but I'm addressing why others might be concerned about the book, ie people who do play PFS.