Axial |
To add to what Jason has said, when it comes to unchained, everything is unchained in some way or another, there's really a sliding scale, ranging from "Wow, that's a cool new take on an iconic idea" all the way out to "'The sacred cows are dead and strapped to a catapult while everyone cavorts in the moonlight and watches in awed anticipation as the chains of reality shatter and the entire world dissolves into the Maelstrom". Some combinations from Pathfinder Unchained are going to bring you more towards the second description in terms of how much they will alter the fundamental way you play to bring a completely new feel, but the new classes are more like the first description.
Uh oh! Does that mean that the Inevitables and Axiomites will try to prevent this book from being published?
Kieviel |
To add to what Jason has said, when it comes to unchained, everything is unchained in some way or another, there's really a sliding scale, ranging from "Wow, that's a cool new take on an iconic idea" all the way out to "'The sacred cows are dead and strapped to a catapult while everyone cavorts in the moonlight and watches in awed anticipation as the chains of reality shatter and the entire world dissolves into the Maelstrom". Some combinations from Pathfinder Unchained are going to bring you more towards the second description in terms of how much they will alter the fundamental way you play to bring a completely new feel, but the new classes are more like the first description.
So, to use a hypothetical example of a class that isn't under current discussion for Unchained, a theoretical unchained druid would probably not trade out all her spells, wild shape, and animal companions for the ability to shoot a bow with her feet, reliant on her dinosaur pool, a personal pool based on 1/2 druid level + Wis modifier that allows her to transform her foot-bow arrows into dinosaurs midflight (scaling dinosaur type by druid level) with a special feature called Plant Mastery that allows you to gain combat bonuses based on going into your local forest or arboretum in real life and collecting a variety of leaves and other flora that you bring to the game session, each one granting a unique boon (with a sidebar for equivalencies of plants if you play on different continents).
Hmm...that actually sounds kind of awesome in a very MtG Unglued kind of way...
And why isn't this being published?
Liz Courts Webstore Gninja Minion |
coyote6 |
So, to use a hypothetical example of a class that isn't under current discussion for Unchained, a theoretical unchained druid would probably not trade out all her spells, wild shape, and animal companions for the ability to shoot a bow with her feet, reliant on her dinosaur pool, a personal pool based on 1/2 druid level + Wis modifier that allows her to transform her foot-bow arrows into dinosaurs midflight (scaling dinosaur type by druid level) with a special feature called Plant Mastery that allows you to gain combat bonuses based on going into your local forest or arboretum in real life and collecting a variety of leaves and other flora that you bring to the game session, each one granting a unique boon (with a sidebar for equivalencies of plants if you play on different continents).
Foot-bow powered dino druids: confirmed for the August 2015 hardback!
The Rot Grub |
The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game contains numerous rules considered sacred by players and GMs alike. Since the system itself was based upon RPG "technology" already more than 20 years old, "backwards compatibility" often meant sticking with the familiar, even if tradition was filled with cobwebs and decades-old assumptions. Pathfinder Unchained dares to take a fresh look at the system itself, altering some of the fundamentals of the game and giving fresh optional takes on classic rules. Inside this collection of alternate rules and options you'll find completely redesigned versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes. Delve into a new system for resolving player actions designed to speed play and dispel confusion. Many of the new systems (such as the revised classes) work seamlessly with the existing Pathfinder rules. Even the most staunchly traditionalist player will appreciate the book's math-lite system for on-the-fly monster creation and the new system for generating dynamic magic items that go far beyond a simple +1 to add lore and interest to the campaign. Players will love the book's new resource pool for martial characters, allowing for exciting new tactical options, as well as the robust new system that allows spellcasters to modify their spells with powerful spell components.
Wait, hold on... I thought we were talking about aspects kept in Pathfinder to maintain backwards compatibility with 3rd Edition, which was published FOURTEEN years ago.
What other things could they possibly be talking about here??
TriOmegaZero |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wait, hold on... I thought we were talking about aspects kept in Pathfinder to maintain backwards compatibility with 3rd Edition, which was published FOURTEEN years ago.
What other things could they possibly be talking about here??
Spell slots. Character classes. Dungeon-focused gameplay.
Set |
Wait, hold on... I thought we were talking about aspects kept in Pathfinder to maintain backwards compatibility with 3rd Edition, which was published FOURTEEN years ago.
What other things could they possibly be talking about here??
Updated second edition Players Handbook and DM's Guide came out in 1995, twenty years ago, so perhaps some of the concepts in those books are being considered, like wizards school specializations (instead of just 'magic users and illusionists').
I really don't remember what changed between the first 2nd edition books in 1989 and the new release in 1995, so that might be a bad example...
Most of the sacred cows I was thinking of where stuff like skills and character classes and dice, which have been around longer than twenty years.
"Dice? Where we're going, we won't need dice..."
Set |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Tels wrote:I'm looking forward to playing the Commoner: Unchained!Don't laugh, but I unironically would love to play a commoner that, as he fights things, gravitates to a certain class. But I can't even imagine how to do that...
A long time ago, I saw a game in which people started out as Warriors, Adepts or Experts, and then 'graduated' to PC classes, paying the difference between the faster XP they were getting as NPC classes to upgrade each level to a PC class level.
Warrior to Fighter was obviously the easiest back then, since the only difference was spend some XP and get some feats.
Alexander Augunas Contributor |
Hayato Ken |
Eclipse: Codex Persona comes to mind.
Now that would be a very nice development.
A complete overhaul of magic use could make the distinction between spontaneous casters and learned casters difficult though.
If you look at Dreamscarred Press Psionics for example, which is a nice point system, there are all spontaneous.
Could still say wizards need to learn their spells and can spend les points on them.
Dazylar |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Its just an argument for its own sake.
...arguing about them is a bit pointless.
Sir, I applaud your attempts to appeal to the collective. However, you must have momentarily forgotten that this is the internet.
Very very excited about this book though. No arguments from me!
Mark Seifter Designer |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm looking forward to playing the Commoner: Unchained!
Why wait--start by converting Chicken Infested, Corpse, Delicious, Dirt Farmer, Incomprehensible Accent, Peasant Hat, Pig Bond, Unimportant NPC, Weresheep and XP Farm and make them into commoner talents. Then the Unchained Commoner gains a new commoner talent at each even level, so there are just enough.
Wolfgang Rolf |
Okay so based on the last tidbit of info we got, this will be a new take on the classes and not changing them into something they are not. Which makes sense, I mean now that I think about it there are some feats tied to sneak attacks, rage, and ki so I doubt these things will be removed from the unchained version of the classes. This is especially true for rage powers since the Skald(ACG class) will also be getting access to them.
So now that things are a little clearer on that aspect, we can better speculate what is to come. The rogue will still have sneak attack, trapfinding will most likely remain, I don't see evasion going away either...Ideally I would hope as I've stated before that they would gain an ability that increases their attack bonus, but it needs to feel rogue-ish something very pragmatic and underhanded. Another way to look at it is instead of increasing attack bonus the rogue could drop the enemies AC by a certain amount, but then it would have to work on most if not all enemies and people may think that would be a bit overpowered.
AndIMustMask |
i should HOPE this book helps alleviate some of the more lackluster of classes. you know, the Big Three that we're not allowed to talk about.
one cant stab you in the dark, another cant punch you to save his life, and the last is bland and hilariously underskilled.
.
that, and wordcasting additions (don't just tease it and then act like it never happened, paizo) or variant spellcasting types (an 'MP'/spell points system might be fun)
Deadmanwalking |
Personally, I'm hoping for a Barbarian based on the AD&D version from the Complete Barbarian's Handbook. Less berserker, more self-sufficient barbarian warrior. Not that I don't seriously enjoy the current version, but doing this seems like the best reason to actually include it in Unchained that I've thought of, and would create a neat class we don't quite have as of yet.
Tels |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ok, I'm a little late to this. Only just heard about it on Know Direction.
Other then the 4 classes in the description above, any info on the other classes like Fighter, etc?
Will they be touched upon as well? I heard in the podcast that all 30 classes will be revisited?
Not to be a total ass, but you could have read the comment immediately above yours.
Jack Rift wrote:I am sure it has be asked and answered, don't real like looking through all the posts. But what will this do for the basic fighter?If you read the product description, then you know as much as the rest of us do.
Secane |
@Tels ,
Ok... There are 480+ posts, just wanted to know if I missed anything. No need to get all offended.
The podcast mentioned quite a bit, I was just hoping that an extra comment on any other class was being dropped by the design team.
I also see you have some interesting ideals for improving the fighter via improving feats, I do hope something a long that line to help the fighter appears in unchained.
Tels |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree with not reading the entire thread, but you could have done a quick search of the thread. There's a search box at the top of every thread that will search the thread for key words you designate.
As for getting offended, I was only kind of annoyed because someone had asked nearly the exact same question right above you and got answered is all.
This product has just been announced and there really isn't much information at out about it at all.
What we do know is that the Barbarian, Monk, Rogue and Summoner will be 'unchained' in that the Barbarian will be made 'easier, the Monk will have full BAB (buffed), the Rogue will be buffed and the Summoner will be nerfed.
We also know that they will be designing the game ignoring the expectation of backwards compatibility.
We know that some classes won't specifically be 'unchained' but that other systems of the game will be unchained, which may drastically effect the class. For example, if Magic is drastically different than now, it will heavily effect all of the casters in the game.
There will be new subsytems like mana pools and resources included and an over-hauled 'on-the-fly' monster creation system.
Other than the above, the PDT has been pretty tight lipped, as they should be. The product was just announced, I wouldn't expect any significant teasers for another 9 months or so until it gets closer to it's release date.
Secane |
@,Tels
Thanks for the breakdown, Tels!
Sorry for annoying you. :(
Will remember to search more in the future!
And I noticed the Fighter unchained thread. Going to pop in and have a look.
I really do hope they take a look at the fighter!
Hope for: +2 more skill points, allow acrobatics, feat bonuses, reflex good save!
R_Chance |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@,Tels
Thanks for the breakdown, Tels!
Sorry for annoying you. :(Will remember to search more in the future!
And I noticed the Fighter unchained thread. Going to pop in and have a look.
I really do hope they take a look at the fighter!
Hope for: +2 more skill points, allow acrobatics, feat bonuses, reflex good save!
Relax Secane. You were far from the only annoying thing in this thread :D And I don't blame you for not reading hundreds of posts chasing the same couple of ideas around and around... I did and I feel like I wasted some time I can never get back :)