Paizo PDFs are priced at 70% of the cover price (barring RPG hardbacks and the core setting book, which this one is not.) If Amazon or other dealers want to sell it for less than 70% of MSRP, that's their business.
People complained about the price for the PDF of the compilation of Rise of the Runelords, too.
Yep, Paizo chooses to make their pdfs really expensive unless they are part of a subscription or one of the big rules hardcovers or that one setting book.
Rise of the Runelords' PDF was expensive too and I expect a bunch expressed complaints about the high price when it was announced. Similarly I expect a bunch of disappointed complaining here as well. Perhaps a little less because there was the RotRL book example, perhaps a little more as this is a broadly useful setting information sourcebook like the campaign setting one and not a specific six part adventure path.
Rules hardback PDFs are 9.99 since most of it is OGC which will go to the SRD and 3rd party sites soon enough. Inner Sea World Guide was 9.99 for the PDF since it was the core setting book and is pretty much necessary to GM a game set in Golarion. Inner Sea Gods is not necessary for a GM. Nice to have, I mean, really nice to have, but not necessary.None of it is necessary after the initial core rules. You could run the setting off of the wiki or the shorter guide. You can run the gods off the Core book's cleric section for domains or off the campaign setting book or Gods and Magic or the Faiths of X series or the wiki, or off this book.
I expect pricing the setting book at $10 while this one at $28 means that a lot of interested people who got the setting book pdf will not get the gods pdf and will be disappointed by this pricing choice by Paizo.
Amazon sells its new physical books either at a razor-thin margin (i.e. pennies per unit) or at a loss. It's a predatory business practice, so I tend to choose to spend more for my hardcopy books by buyuing directly from Paizo, or by paying MSRP at my Friendly local Gaming Store.
Honestly, I usually choose the PDF over the printed copy. That's the format I bought my copy of Inner Sea Gods. This makes my 20th Campaign Setting PDF purchase, in addition to 7 modules, 8 Player Companions, 3 AP volumes, the NPC Codex, and about two dozen third-party PDFs of various sorts.
I find PDFs more valualble than the printed copy. They are far easier to use at the gaming table, infinitely portable, and (most importantly) searchable. I keep a copy of all my Paizo PDFs on my SkyDrive so that I can access them from any of my computers, my phone, or my tablet.
(Of course, they're also by far easier to steal. I would imagine that there are probaly 10 or 20 illegally downloaded Paizo PDFs for every legally-purchased one. That's bad for a niche-market publisher.)
About the only time I prefer the hardcopies is when I'm sitting in an armchair reading them.
Honestly, I usually choose the PDF over the printed copy. That's the format I bought my copy of Inner Sea Gods. This makes my 20th Campaign Setting PDF purchase, in addition to 7 modules, 8 Player Companions, 3 AP volumes, the NPC Codex, and about two dozen third-party PDFs of various sorts.
I find PDFs more valualble than the printed copy. They are far easier to use at the gaming table, infinitely portable, and (most importantly) searchable. I keep a copy of all my Paizo PDFs on my SkyDrive so that I can access them from any of my computers, my phone, or my tablet.
(Of course, they're also by far easier to steal. I would imagine that there are probaly 10 or 20 illegally downloaded Paizo PDFs for every legally-purchased one. That's bad for a niche-market publisher.)
About the only time I prefer the hardcopies is when I'm sitting in an armchair reading them.
I buy a lot more PDFs than hard copy books too. I just picked up over a hundred 3rd party ones with the Fat Goblin Games May Mega-bundle (which I think is a medical fundraiser) on Friday.
I'm just not buying Inner Sea Gods, even though I'm interested in the content, because of the current price. There are other gaming PDFs I'd rather spend my monthly RPG budget on.
Reading over the book there seems to have been a change of stance in regards to Saranae worship in Taldor (Were apparently there are now many churches and appears to be an accepted religion) as well as how the dawnflower cult works (None of which seem to be close to evil which seems a bit odd giving there stance on things)
Not a fan of the change; I liked the previous incarnation of the Dawnflower Cult better. The ban on Sarenrae worship made Taldor more interesting, and not to mention all of the material that has been rendered obsolete. I'm sure I won't be the only one ignoring the retcon.
On the up side, I've enjoyed the rest of the book so far.
Tietar, why do you think the Lawgiver seems underpowered compared to the other heralds?
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Mr. Reynolds, First, allow me to say that the book (overall) is fantastic. I had been waiting for just such a book. If only my current game were so Abadar-focused I might not have had a beef.
I understand that all the construct traits take a bite out of CR. And that being a construct limit's it's HP (due to not Con, the only bonuses are from the flat-bonus-for-a-construct-of-his-size and toughness).
On comparing with Erastil's, Iomedae's, Pharasma's, Serenrae's, etc. heralds (and, honestly, ditto the servitors), I am left underwhelmed. Perhaps it is the lack of regeneration or fast healing (most other heralds have a method of self-healing, but here we have none), lack of effective SLA's (his are ALL irrelevant to him, as his construct traits grant immunity to all those things), low HP (only Torag's is lower- but he's listed as having iron golem immunities and changeable DR as well, not so Lawgiver), or under-powered magic weapon (it appears that each herald listed with a magic weapon has a minimum of +4 worth of weapon enhancements, be it on a single weapon or divided between two weapons- except for Serenrae's herald, who has THREE! +4-equivalent weapons).
If you would be so kind as to expound upon the Lawgiver's entry, and how it isn't underpowered, I would appreciate it.
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Thanks for replying. :)
In terms of defenses, the lawgiver has lower hit points than other heralds, yes, but (as you pointed out) that's offset by its high DR and (also as you pointed out) by its construct immunities. Keep in mind also that its AC is higher than the norm for its CR (34 instead of 30), which helps reduce the damage against it. But I do agree that it could have had DR 15/chaotic and adamantine instead of just chaotic.
As for its lack of "effective" SLAs, it is not meant to be a blast-you-with-spells creature, it is a pound-you-with-hammer creature. Compare it to The First Blade (page 288), who only has a few SLAs and they're not very good... because Gorum's herald is about beating on you rather than blasting you. Abadar's herald's SLAs key to its role as a protector and defender (not just of individuals, but of cities), and aren't really for use on itself, but on its allies and wards. (I'll point out that it didn't have any SLAs at all in its pre-Pathfinder incarnation, which was also written by me, and I don't have my development file on it but I assume I added the SLAs in ISG to give it some magical options.)
As for its magical weapon, the comparison isn't of how many plus-equivalents the weapon has, but whether it deals appropriate damage for a creature of its CR. So:
Lawgiver/Abadar: average result of 4d6+10 is 24. Four attacks per round, that's 96 damage per round. The table on Bestiary page 291 pegs a CR 15 monster's "High" damage column (i.e., a creature that is "primarily a melee or ranged combatant") at 70, so 96 is well above that, and that's not even counting the +2d6 extra on each attack against chaotic creatures (a common foe for Abadar) from axiomatic, which would put its average damage up to 124 per round.
Menotherian/Calistria: 1d8+9, 2x 1d6+9, 2d8+9 averages to 48.5, which is on the low side, but the Menotherian also has poison, and a save-or-die implant attack it can use with its sting attack.
Thais/Cayden Cailean: 2d8+12 x4 attacks averages to 84 damage, less than the Lawgiver but still above the expected 70 for a melee-oriented CR 15 creature.
Thalachos/Sarenrae: 1d8+8 x6 attacks = 75 damage per round, less than the lawgiver. If you add in the average of 14 fire per round that puts it at 89 damage per round, still less than the Lawgiver (although this herald also has a stun ability).
Paizo builds its monster stat blocks with a complicated Excel spreadsheet that I wrote. It checks every monster built with it against the parameters of the table on Bestiary 291 and flags any value that's unusually high or low for its CR. And sometimes things are deliberately set high or low--a brute monster might be given a higher-than-normal damage value for its CR, but a lower-than-normal attack bonus for its CR, which averages out to "about normal for its CR" but makes for an interesting encounter where the monster doesn't hit often but hits HARD when it does. "Is this creature's total weapon bonus comparable to other monsters of this type" isn't relevant to how powerful a monster is because you could give one monster a (+2-equivalent) +1 flaming weapon which in its hands deals the same or more damage than a (+7-equivalent) +3 disruption ghost touch ki focus weapon in the hands of a different creature.
That is a really interesting breakdown of the Lawgiver. It's nice to get the occasional look "behind the curtain" and see how Paizo handles things like this.
Especially since your reply lead me to discover the "create a monster"-appendix in the Bestiary, I've never noticed that before :)
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Thank you, sir, for the clarification. I appreciate the time you have taken and the detail with which you have answered me.
I wasn't trying to imply "blast-you-with-spells" SLA's, rather SLA's that both provide direct benefit to Lawgiver and that are more thematically linked with Abadar's portfolios. Antimagic field, dispel chaos, mark of justice, move earth, order's wrath, Prot.from/Magic circle vs. chaos (or an aura effect similar), shield of law, sanctuary (aura effect), shield other, soften earth and stone, stone shape, stoneskin, wall of stone, and Zone of Truth (aura effect) would all have been (IMO) more interesting SLA choices- especially where Abadar's faithful are more "help others to help themselves" than outright "heal your afflictions". Granted many of them are not appropriate due to spell level, and the damage dealing ones aren't needed here, per se.
On the topic of self-healing (or repair), how does Lawgiver regain hit points? A bit about healing from acid or electricity damage (as per golems), or some slow regeneration (or fast healing) ability (on a x/hour, x/day, or x/week) perhaps?
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Tietar,
I understand the distinction you're making. A herald is what its deity wants it to be. That means some heralds are brutish battle monsters. Others are personable and built more for buffing and coordinating the deity's mortal followers. Some are versatile spellcasters.
Basically, each herald is a tool, and the deities have many other tools at their disposal. Abadar, god of cities, uses his herald as a magnet, hammer, and perhaps a wedge, rather than a shield, shovel, and polygraph. If the GM decides other abilities are more relevant to a specific conjuration of the herald, the GM is free to do so; essentially, the listed stats for a herald are its "standard configuration."
As for healing, the Lawgiver doesn't have a golem's "immunity to magic" ability, so it is able to use cure serious wounds on itself if it is hurt and needs to stick around for a while (if it doesn't need to remain in the mortal world, presumably Abadar or another minion in the god's realm in Axis will heal or repair it).
Have fun! :)
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Reading over the book there seems to have been a change of stance in regards to Saranae worship in Taldor (Were apparently there are now many churches and appears to be an accepted religion) as well as how the dawnflower cult works (None of which seem to be close to evil which seems a bit odd giving there stance on things)Not a fan of the change; I liked the previous incarnation of the Dawnflower Cult better. The ban on Sarenrae worship made Taldor more interesting, and not to mention all of the material that has been rendered obsolete. I'm sure I won't be the only one ignoring the retcon.
On the up side, I've enjoyed the rest of the book so far.
I just noticed this as well. Is this meant as a change, or was the legal status of Sarenrae worship in Taldor just not mentioned? I could believe that worship of Sarenrae is common in Tador, and even the old Taldor splat book says it's really only in the big cities that worshippers are persecuted on sight. I ran the PFS scenario Decline of Glory a while back and
I don't believe that the pdfs are scans at all. What sort of error? Perhaps re-downloading the file will fix it.
Why does the Pathfinder OGC mention the Pure Legion Enforcer as a Prestige Class from Inner Sea Gods, yet my copy of the book does not have the Prestige Class in it?
Because it's from Inner Sea Combat. What's the Pathfinder OGC?
The SRD. You know, the online source that has most of the stuff?
You mean d20pfsrd.com? Paizo has nothing to do with that site. If they have the wrong source listed for something, let them know and they'll fix it (I assume).
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Which is the same reason the PrC in Inner Sea Combat is "Pure Legion Enforcer" and the d20pfsrd site has it listed as "Purity Legion Enforcer". The Pure Legion is Golarion-specific organization and the d20pfsrd is not a fan site but a commerical site, so they can't use Golarion-specific IP.
Might I suggest you look at the Archives of Nethys for non-core book information? (Which is also a non-Paizo site. But it is a really well editted fan site.)
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Was it intentional to remove the revelry subdomain from Cayden Cailean? Or does the entry from champions of purity still hold true? Just asking since the current (9.3) hero lab data file thinks its invalid now.
Just bumping this hoping to get an answer. It seem just that the revelry entry didn't make it into the chart at the front on champions or purity, so also got missed when that one was used as the basis for inner sea gods... Just seems like whose REVELRY is the reason he became a God would catch that subdomain...
Page 317 of the PDF does not seem to be scanned in quite right. Any fix for this? Or just live with it?
The only problem I see on that page of the PDF is that in the default view you don't see the right half of the table that spans pages 316 and 317 in a way that lets you scroll horizontally from the left side of the table on page 316 to the right side of the table on page 317. If you are viewing the PDF in Adobe Acrobat, you need to select "Two Up" on the View menu to get the two pages to hook up properly.
I was hoping to use the Iron Lord's Transforming Silvers (pg. 266) as a nice workaround for the odd sized weapons in my Rise of the Runelords campaign.
It was perfect because there is even going to be a Gorumite Cleric in the party but then I saw that a fabricate spell was required to create the item.
I have looked at the boards some and haven't found any answers so I figured I would try here. Is there actually a way for a Gorum Cleric to create this item without help, something I am missing? It just doesn't make sense to me to require an arcane spell for ANY item related to Gorum.
Barring a solution here, my plan is just to rename the item and make it an item favored by clerics of Torag. I figure that works pretty well with their whole shtick and the artifice domain granting fabricate.
was initially thrilled to get this ... finally, a fleshing out of the varied gods with new domains, etc.!
couple of problems ... with nagaji, et. al added to the pathfinder races, couldn't their deities have been fleshed out a bit? all that's listed for nalinivati is her name, the fact that she's a tien goddess as well as goddess of the nagaji ... no domains, subdomains, nada
for the new domains/subdomains ... there's no listing of which deities they belong to in the descriptions, and the table listings later in the book are more than a bit confusing on the first few read-throughs; there again, some of the minor deities aren't listed, so I have to go to the archive of nethys to find out what my nagaji naga aspirant druid gets, and that isn't considered proper documentation for several of my pfs gms ... for them it has to be in print, either in a readily accessible book or the pdf
an update or some sort of other official documentation would be great!
There isn't much info on Nalinivati since she isn't an Inner Sea Goddess as you said she is Tien, that is most likely also the case for the minor deities you mention, the list of the subdomains that they belong to are listed in the appendix listing the Gods in the back of the book
Hello
With the Exalted PRC from Inner Sea Gods it states for Expanded Portfolio:
At 5th level, the exalted further increases her already impressive knowledge of her chosen deity's faith and is rewarded with increased powers in one of the spheres over which her deity holds sway. The exalted chooses a domain of her chosen deity to which she gains access, using her exalted level as her effective cleric level.
The exalted can also can use each of the chosen domain's spells once per day as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to her exalted level. The exalted can use each spell-like ability only if she is able to cast divine spells of that level. If the exalted has any domain spell slots, she is also able to cast the chosen domain's spells in those slots as normal.
I understand that the ability to cast domain spells as SLA 1/day scales off the Exalted level but I'm guessing/hoping(!) that does not apply if they are cast from normal domain slots (ie they are cast as per spellcasting level)- hence the phrase as normal? Leading on from this, if that is the case, I assume the same would apply if a cleric was scribing the domain spell to a scroll?
Thanks!
Writers, Potion Glutton is f$$&ed up and you know it. Please unf*** it. You know the PDT is not going to do it. Please.
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Why is this a $27 PDF? That's the most expensive PDF I've seen
It is a $27 PDF because it is a $40 book.
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It's also not like people are holding a gun to your head...
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It's part of the campaign setting line, those are not included in the PRD and thus the PDF costs more.
It's the same for Inner Sea Races I believe.
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Contributor
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captain yesterday is correct.
On a related note, this is why it's so important that the Adventurer's Guide and Book of the Damned are now part of the RPG line - it means eventual inclusion on the PRD (which makes citation in other products easier) and PDFs for only $10.
I'm happy to have Book of the Damned in the PRD. :)