Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods (PFRPG) Hardcover

I have to agree. I think (and no this is not some flame/trolling attempt) that what they did in 4E FR was probably the best thing. I hated FR up until then, and offing Mystra (the Tyrant) and getting rid of so much of the redundancy was great.

I think that Eilistrea would have been a better (very minor) Elf Deity that had a special place for renegade drow than the way she was handled, but that's my opinion. Of all the others, I kind of liked Kiaransalee, but Vhaeraun was pretty cool, as I can see one day his faith leading a coup and dethroning Lolth and the matriarchy, (and Lolth not really being that against it as it would be chaotic and powerful).

The release date has been for April for a while now.

When it comes to having multiple gods, I say the more the better. I love variety wich is something that Golarion has plenty of.

There's variety, and there is overcompensation. I personally would rather have less deities, but for those that are to offer some variety. Different aspects of a principle, leading to their followers possibly being very different, but with common ground. This is much better if it crosses cultural bounds, too, so Sarenrae (light, healing, redemption, good, etc. . .) worshipped as a male renegade fire giant in the Land of the Linnorm Kings (just making it up), who uses the dying heat of the sun to offer a tiny respite to the common man and strike down other monsters would to me be much cooler than yet another deity (that may never show up again) that filled that same role. In that same place, Eristal might be worshipped as a female elder/wisewoman, subtly manipulating and strengthening the community and warriors to work hard and achieve by their own hand.

Things like that.

<Only changed their genders cause I thought it made sense and would be cool to show another possibility of what I meant by offering variety with fewer deities.>

The topic of Eilistraee and the 4E Forgotten Realms should probably be moved to a new thread if it's to be discussed further.

As for myself, that topic is a dead horse, and aside from saying I disagree, not one I care to go back into.

Varisian Wanderer wrote:

Abyssal Lord wrote:

Well, at least they cleaned house on the Drow Pantheon. It was getting ridiculous.

Funny because Eilistraee was my favorite deity. XD

Blasphemy!

Given how Lolth have a strangle hold on the Drow, I often wonder why are there even other drow gods and goddesses, Vhaeraun and Eilistrae I can stomach because they later were retconned into Lolth's children.

Then the others, Kiaransalee, Zinzerena, Sevlatarm, Keptolo... I mean, aren't they rather redundant?

So glad they wiped the slate clean!

Lolth seemed to be a very jealous diety, I could not see her tolerating other faiths involved in her cities.

Blasphemy!

Given how Lolth have a strangle hold on the Drow, I often wonder why are there even other drow gods and goddesses, Vhaeraun and Eilistrae I can stomach because they later were retconned into Lolth's children.

Then the others, Kiaransalee, Zinzerena, Sevlatarm, Keptolo... I mean, aren't they rather redundant?

So glad they wiped the slate clean!

The ooze god made sense to me. He was an addition worshiped by drow dissidents.

Agreed, the subject deities from sources other then Pathfinder have no place here and should be taken else were.

Yeah, talk about Eilistraee, etc. will lead to me remembering Sehanine Moonbow, and then I'll be trapped in an inchoate nerdrage. :)

As for the book itself, I'm hoping for some useful hints as to how to play a 'one step removed' cleric of a god, without necessarily coming across as a total heretic, such as a CN or NE cleric of Pharasma or a CG cleric of Calistria or a LN cleric of Nethys, or a CN cleric of a demon lord or Rovagug or a CE Great Old One, just to pick some examples that might feel a little at odds with the nature of their respective deities.

Similarly, there are gods like Erastil, which seem quite compatible with Druidism (or even Zon-Kuthon, who *doesn't* seem as intuitively Druid-friendly, with his own order of Druids!), and yet are 'alignment extremists,' leading to an initial (possibly wrong-headed) notion that Erastil might have less Druids than a god with a Neutral component to their alignment, like (deliberately whacky examples!), Urgathoa or Nethys or Norgorber.

One thing that I really enjoyed about the Dragonlance setting, was that different races and cultures would often have a different take on a specific god.

Name, gender, apperance, ....would all reflect the culture in question.

One thing that I really enjoyed about the Dragonlance setting, was that different races and cultures would often have a different take on a specific god.

Name, gender, apperance, ....would all reflect the culture in question.

Yeah, that was a neat idea.

I was conflicted, at the time, because I was a huge fan of Roger Moore's demihuman deities, but, over time, I've grown to prefer less racially-specific gods, as the nature of 'gods' feels diminished by the presence of a human god of death and a dwarven god of death and an elven god of death, and a human god of magic and a dwarven god of magic and an elven god of magic, etc. particularly in a game setting that has *dozens* of humanoid races, each of which would logically have their own pantheons (as well as multiple human ethnicities, with their own pantheons) all covering the same ground, over and over. Yeah, more options, generally a good thing, but when you've got four hundred gods running around, it becomes more clear why mythic figures like Baba Yaga and Tar-Baphon would *choose* not to 'ascend' to godhood, since it would be a huge demotion in their cool level, to go where darn near everybody has gone before and become 'new god #407' in the queue, instead of being the one and only Baba Yaga.

nighttree wrote:

One thing that I really enjoyed about the Dragonlance setting, was that different races and cultures would often have a different take on a specific god.

Name, gender, apperance, ....would all reflect the culture in question.

Yeah, that was a neat idea.

I was conflicted, at the time, because I was a huge fan of Roger Moore's demihuman deities, but, over time, I've grown to prefer less racially-specific gods, as the nature of 'gods' feels diminished by the presence of a human god of death and a dwarven god of death and an elven god of death, and a human god of magic and a dwarven god of magic and an elven god of magic, etc. particularly in a game setting that has *dozens* of humanoid races, each of which would logically have their own pantheons (as well as multiple human ethnicities, with their own pantheons) all covering the same ground, over and over. Yeah, more options, generally a good thing, but when you've got four hundred gods running around, it becomes more clear why mythic figures like Baba Yaga and Tar-Baphon would *choose* not to 'ascend' to godhood, since it would be a huge demotion in their cool level, to go where darn near everybody has gone before and become 'new god #407' in the queue, instead of being the one and only Baba Yaga.

I think one should look to world myths to see how gods are viewed and worshipped. Take the Greek pantheon, for example. There are deities that would be deemed "evil", but in general, everybody, even the evil doers and monsters worship the same gods. And no mortal whether they are good or evil would dare talk crap about a god (I mean I have read in some novels how mortals would call Lolth "the spider b&~%$", in Greek myths,the speaker would be struck dead immediately with a thunderbolt or he will have to sacrifice his daughter).

However, the Norse myths seems more in tune with D&D and PF's concept of a pantheon where there are a group of evil gods who are not imprisioned and are racial specific and they actively act against the good deities.

nighttree wrote:

One thing that I really enjoyed about the Dragonlance setting, was that different races and cultures would often have a different take on a specific god.

Name, gender, apperance, ....would all reflect the culture in question.

Yeah, that was a neat idea.

I was conflicted, at the time, because I was a huge fan of Roger Moore's demihuman deities, but, over time, I've grown to prefer less racially-specific gods, as the nature of 'gods' feels diminished by the presence of a human god of death and a dwarven god of death and an elven god of death, and a human god of magic and a dwarven god of magic and an elven god of magic, etc. particularly in a game setting that has *dozens* of humanoid races, each of which would logically have their own pantheons (as well as multiple human ethnicities, with their own pantheons) all covering the same ground, over and over. Yeah, more options, generally a good thing, but when you've got four hundred gods running around, it becomes more clear why mythic figures like Baba Yaga and Tar-Baphon would *choose* not to 'ascend' to godhood, since it would be a huge demotion in their cool level, to go where darn near everybody has gone before and become 'new god #407' in the queue, instead of being the one and only Baba Yaga.

I really liked the concept of the racial gods. Why shouldn't they have their own creators? The story of the orc creation in 1st edition was really good, especially the art in the Dragon Magazine with Grummsh and his spear.

We've got examples of both, in the real world, with totally different Greek and Norse and Chinese 'pantheons,' and yet also same-gods-by-another-name with the Greek/Roman/Etruscan pantheons.

But, in a world where the gods are very real, it's likely that two different races (or cultures) creation stories, which are handed down by their actual gods, can't all be true. (Unless they share similar elements and can be seen as different versions of the same basic truth, such as Tiamat / Apophis / Typhon as serpent devourer of the dawn, and a primordial sea of chaos, from which creation was illuminated and defined.)

I still think every race should have at least one god/goddess that is like them. Some of these deities might be the first of there kind to ascend to divinity or they created there race in there own image. I would love to see deities based on races like lashunta, catfolk, goblins, Grippli, Kasatha, etc.

I still think every race should have at least one god/goddess that is like them. Some of these deities might be the first of there kind to ascend to divinity or they created there race in there own image. I would love to see deities based on races like lashunta, catfolk, goblins, Grippli, Kasatha, etc.

Goblins worship Demon Lords and Bargheist Demigods, if I remember my Jacobian Lore correctly. It would be interesting to hear goblin creation myths; I don't have Goblins of Golarion, so maybe someone can chime in with more info.

As for the other races, they're not native to the Inner Sea, so I wouldn't expect gods focused on them in this book.

•Dozens of monsters, including high-level heralds and divine servitors for Pathfinder’s most prominent deities.

Are these all monsters or are there also some humans among them?

Divine servitors and heralds are outsiders. Even if they look human, they aren't human. "Monster" in this context means "it has a monster-style stat block," not "rawr I'm stoopid gonna kill ya!"

Dragon78 wrote:

I still think every race should have at least one god/goddess that is like them. Some of these deities might be the first of there kind to ascend to divinity or they created there race in there own image. I would love to see deities based on races like lashunta, catfolk, goblins, Grippli, Kasatha, etc.

Goblins worship Demon Lords and Bargheist Demigods, if I remember my Jacobian Lore correctly. It would be interesting to hear goblin creation myths; I don't have Goblins of Golarion, so maybe someone can chime in with more info.

As for the other races, they're not native to the Inner Sea, so I wouldn't expect gods focused on them in this book.

The barghest gods were once powerful but ordinary barghests in Hell; Lamashtu somehow got them out and raised them to demigodhood in her service (accounts vary as to whether she broke them out or got Asmodeus to renegotiate their infernal contracts). Goblins arose from their spilled blood.

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I still think every race should have at least one god/goddess that is like them. Some of these deities might be the first of there kind to ascend to divinity or they created there race in there own image. I would love to see deities based on races like lashunta, catfolk, goblins, Grippli, Kasatha, etc.

Goblins worship Demon Lords and Bargheist Demigods, if I remember my Jacobian Lore correctly. It would be interesting to hear goblin creation myths; I don't have Goblins of Golarion, so maybe someone can chime in with more info.

As for the other races, they're not native to the Inner Sea, so I wouldn't expect gods focused on them in this book.

The barghest gods were once powerful but ordinary barghests in Hell; Lamashtu somehow got them out and raised them to demigodhood in her service (accounts vary as to whether she broke them out or got Asmodeus to renegotiate their infernal contracts). Goblins arose from their spilled blood.

Yeah, basically. Goblins have something they call the First Songs that tell the tales of how they came to be and the early days, according to it, Lamashtu stole four barghests from Asmodeus' kennel, unleashed them to cause havok, and they found that when they spilled the blood of humans, it grew into goblins, and they apparently had a grand old time running around and murdering everything. Hadregash was the most powerful of the barghests, and he gave goblins the gift of tribe, Venkelvore gave them the gift of raiding, Zarongel gave them the gift of riding, and Zogmugot gave them the gift of scavenging. There are a lot of tales, like Hadregash spilling his blood on a worm which turned into a goblin snake, Venkelvore taming the king of the goblin dogs by turning its own parasites and dander against it, etc., but all good times must come to an end; Lamashtu apparently saw humanity was on the rise and called the barghests back to serve her as a reward for creating goblins, creating Basalfeyst as a domain for them near her own realm in the Abyss, where goblins believe they go after death to either serve their masters or get eaten if they were bad at being goblins.

Divine servitors and heralds are outsiders. Even if they look human, they aren't human. "Monster" in this context means "it has a monster-style stat block," not "rawr I'm stoopid gonna kill ya!"

So we're going to see all the heralds that have been in AP articles, right? Basileus, Mother's Maw, Hand of the Inheritor, Thais, all that jazz?

Lamashtu apparently saw humanity was on the rise and called the barghests back to serve her as a reward for creating goblins, creating Basalfeyst as a domain for them near her own realm in the Abyss, where goblins believe they go after death to either serve their masters or get eaten if they were bad at being goblins.

Amusingly, it's been revealed by the Abyss Gazetteer in The Midnight Isles that Basalfeyst's origins are a bit more metal than that.

Basalfeyst is a region of Hell that Lamashtu tore out and transplanted into the Abyss.

Though perhaps Basalfeyst was the kennel that the goblins sing of.

In which case, Lamashtu didn't steal the barghests from Asmodeus's kennel. She picked up and walked off with the kennel itself.

I find it amusing that the goblin myths underplay just how powerful Lamashtu actually is.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Divine servitors and heralds are outsiders. Even if they look human, they aren't human. "Monster" in this context means "it has a monster-style stat block," not "rawr I'm stoopid gonna kill ya!"

So we're going to see all the heralds that have been in AP articles, right? Basileus, Mother's Maw, Hand of the Inheritor, Thais, all that jazz?

Yes (some of which predate the PFRPG). And there's a new type of servitor for each of the 20 major deities: a CR 4ish outsider suitable for calling with lesser planar ally by lower-level clerics.

Yes (some of which predate the PFRPG). And there's a new type of servitor for each of the 20 major deities: a CR 4ish outsider suitable for calling with lesser planar ally by lower-level clerics.

Oh yes.

pulling for some "Dark Is Not Evil" types or "alien angels" for Desna

or "super orcs" for Gorum

or risen fiend-like peri for Sarenrae

or straight-up classic grim reapers for Pharasma

Cool not only are getting the heralds for the core 20 in one place but also minor servants for lesser planar ally.

And there's a new type of servitor for each of the 20 major deities: a CR 4ish outsider suitable for calling with lesser planar ally by lower-level clerics.

Woo! Guess I don't have to ever finish my thread full of lesser planar allies. :)

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Yes (some of which predate the PFRPG). And there's a new type of servitor for each of the 20 major deities: a CR 4ish outsider suitable for calling with lesser planar ally by lower-level clerics.

Oh yes.

pulling for some "Dark Is Not Evil" types or "alien angels" for Desna

or "super orcs" for Gorum

or risen fiend-like peri for Sarenrae

or straight-up classic grim reapers for Pharasma

Keep in mind, we already have straight-up reapers from Carrion Crown. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Pharasma can't have her own reaper-squads too.

Are Milani, Besmara, and other full-blown deities who have articles and heralds but aren't part of the Big 20 getting their articles and heralds included in this book?

If not, what sort of entries will they be getting?

Edit: Trying to clarify my question.

I didn't read the issue with Besmara, but Milani has a herald listed with her. A 'lesser planer ally' servitor would be nice, however.

Axial wrote:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Divine servitors and heralds are outsiders. Even if they look human, they aren't human. "Monster" in this context means "it has a monster-style stat block," not "rawr I'm stoopid gonna kill ya!"

So we're going to see all the heralds that have been in AP articles, right? Basileus, Mother's Maw, Hand of the Inheritor, Thais, all that jazz?

Yes (some of which predate the PFRPG). And there's a new type of servitor for each of the 20 major deities: a CR 4ish outsider suitable for calling with lesser planar ally by lower-level clerics.

Oh hells yes. I'm even more excited for this one now!

My body is ready.

And there's a new type of servitor for each of the 20 major deities: a CR 4ish outsider suitable for calling with lesser planar ally by lower-level clerics.

Would these be taken from your lists of unstatted unique minor servants in the articles, or something new, or a mix of both?

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

And there's a new type of servitor for each of the 20 major deities: a CR 4ish outsider suitable for calling with lesser planar ally by lower-level clerics.

Would these be taken from your lists of unstatted unique minor servants in the articles, or something new, or a mix of both?

I believe it was a mix of both...

Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

And there's a new type of servitor for each of the 20 major deities: a CR 4ish outsider suitable for calling with lesser planar ally by lower-level clerics.

Would these be taken from your lists of unstatted unique minor servants in the articles, or something new, or a mix of both?

I believe it was a mix of both...

It's a mix of both. :)

Now I'm wondering what Asmodeus' lesser planar ally is...I'm assuming it's some kind of devil?

Needless to say, this book will give the deities much more characterization, both plot and gameplay wise.

You want to be a cleric? Okay. Which deity do you worship? Here's what they all do, what they all believe in, and what they ask of their followers. Also, here's the domains, favored weapons, and lesser planar allies. Have fun! :)

Super Orcs for Gorum, yes please.

Can we have giant wasps who are also angry hookers for Calistria, please?

Will (Non-Lesser) Planar Ally and Greater Planar Ally also have deity specific options?

So I noticed the text saying 140 deities. So, from what I know from the Inner Sea Guide, at most, not including devils and demons, we have over 45 gods and some Old Ones. But, from that count, I am guessing the god from Tian Xia and other continents as well as sub deities are being added. Can anyone confirm this at Paizo? I am very interested in this book and hopefully more neutral/balance deities will be added.

So I noticed the text saying 140 deities. So, from what I know from the Inner Sea Guide, at most, not including devils and demons, we have over 45 gods and some Old Ones. But, from that count, I am guessing the god from Tian Xia and other continents as well as sub deities are being added. Can anyone confirm this at Paizo? I am very interested in this book and hopefully more neutral/balance deities will be added.

nope only Inner Sea gods

I think he just got some different numbers confused.
The text says "nearly 300 deities from across the Inner Sea region and beyond"
It mentions 140 in context of "More than 140 magic items tailored to religious characters of all classes"
It goes on to mention 3 new prestige classes applicable to the 20 core gods (primarily inner sea based on golarion, but not exclusively).

I had a question about what this is referring to:

New prestige classes to imbue you with the power of the gods! What’s more, each of these three classes is uniquely customized to make worshipers of all 20 core gods mechanically distinct from each other—that’s 60 different prestige class variations!

Are those 3 PrCs available to any Worshipper Class, or are they class specific?,

I think he just got some different numbers confused.

The text says "nearly 300 deities from across the Inner Sea region and beyond"
It mentions 140 in context of "More than 140 magic items tailored to religious characters of all classes"
It goes on to mention 3 new prestige classes applicable to the 20 core gods (primarily inner sea based on golarion, but not exclusively).

I had a question about what this is referring to:

Quote:

New prestige classes to imbue you with the power of the gods! What’s more, each of these three classes is uniquely customized to make worshipers of all 20 core gods mechanically distinct from each other—that’s 60 different prestige class variations!

Are those 3 PrCs available to any Worshipper Class, or are they class specific?,

e.g. one PrC specifically for Cleric/Druid/Inquisitor/[Sacred Servant] Paladin?
(more than 3 classes there, but it doesn't necessarily cover all of those, or one could share a PrC with one other class)

I get the feeling they are kind of like the demoniac class of the demon lords...but with one specific to martial classes, another to spellcasters and yet a third to other types like rogues and bards.

I really like the new campaign setting art and fonts and such, very classy, truly paizo has THE BEST art dept. around!

Question: The Hand of the Inheritor's artwork in The Sixfold Trial depicts it as having whitish armor and a needle...thing in place of it's legs.

The illustration in Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth depicts it with golden armor and more of a humanoid frame.

Would I be correct in assuming that the artwork will be updated to fit the latter?

Question: The Hand of the Inheritor's artwork in The Sixfold Trial depicts it as having whitish armor and a needle...thing in place of it's legs.

The illustration in Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth depicts it with golden armor and more of a humanoid frame.

Would I be correct in assuming that the artwork will be updated to fit the latter?

The "Pencil For Legs" illustration is pretty much an error. Iomedae's herald does and should have legs like a human.

His artwork is indeed updated to reflect that in the upcoming Inner Sea Gods book.

Since Paladins of Asmodeus have been removed, will there be stuff for lawful evil Antipaladins?

While we're asking questions, will any of the other gods and heralds have new artwork? And will there ever be a divine option for Bards?

Since Paladins of Asmodeus have been removed, will there be stuff for lawful evil Antipaladins?

No. That's not our take on antipaladins. Look to the Hellknights for that flavor.

While we're asking questions, will any of the other gods and heralds have new artwork? And will there ever be a divine option for Bards?

In some cases, yes. And there are options for EVERY character class in the book. Clerics will, of course, get the most milage out of the book, but if you want to play a religious character of any class... there's plenty for you in here.

Jadeite wrote:

Since Paladins of Asmodeus have been removed, will there be stuff for lawful evil Antipaladins?

No. That's not our take on antipaladins. Look to the Hellknights for that flavor.

A LG character can be a Paladin and a Hellknight. I'd like for an LE character to have similar opportunities. I guess I have to wait for the warpriest for LE divine champions and play my LE graveknight antipaladin in the meantime.

Clerics will, of course, get the most milage out of the book, but if you want to play a religious character of any class... there's plenty for you in here.

Ooh, that sounds awesome! I've long wanted to see arcane 'theurgy,' spells and magic related to one's relationship to a church or god, or similar religious themed options for classes that aren't divine spellcasters, such as purified / sacred ki strikes for monks or whatever!

James Jacobs wrote:

Clerics will, of course, get the most milage out of the book, but if you want to play a religious character of any class... there's plenty for you in here.

Ooh, that sounds awesome! I've long wanted to see arcane 'theurgy,' spells and magic related to one's relationship to a church or god, or similar religious themed options for classes that aren't divine spellcasters, such as purified / sacred ki strikes for monks or whatever!

Second that.