Making a Blind character work

Hey all,

I've been playing around with a few builds concerning a blind character, and I can work the early levels, but the later levels seem to be lacking quite a bit.

At level 1, as a Human Unarmed Fighter or Master of Many Styles, I can get Blind-Fight (thanks to a new trait from the new Divine Anthology book), Blinded Blade Style (free Style feat), Improved Blind-Fight (level 1 feat) and Blinded Competence (Human bonus feat). This get's rid of most of the penalties associated with fighting blind. I also wanted to incorporate the Moonlight Stalker feat, for flavor and to put the Blind feats to good use.

The plan so far is the take the first level as seen above, then perhaps dip into Magus or Wizard in order to get access to Dancing Darkness, and scrolls/wands of Blur/Darkness, to facilitate getting concealment.

The rest of the levels are a mystery to me. I had wanted to 2-hand a sword for my weapon, but at this point I'll take anything that works.

Also this is for PFS, so only approved materials can be used. (I also realize that walking around with darkness is not very party friendly, that's why I have Blur as an option)

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.

What's this trait? I have some ideas but I could use to know how it works first.

I feel really left out, since I rely on PDFs, I have to wait two more weeks to see what it feels like everybody already has...

In any case, I'd consider going Unchained Rogue.

You'll have to wait one more level for Imp. BF, but you get the ability to cast Dancing Darkness with Major Magic, and Darkness with Gloom Magic.

Here is the trait:

Blind Zeal (Vildeis): You are blind but trained by followers of Vildeis to sense your surroundings by sound and touch. You need not attempt a skill check to move at full speed. You take a –4 penalty from blindness on only Acrobatics, Ride, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth checks. You gain Blind-Fight as a bonus feat. You lose the benefits of this trait whenever you can see, but regain them if you
once again become blind.

Now I'll double down on my suggestion of UnRogue. You'll get to overcome that DEX penalty super quick and it will be hilarious until you do though.

Improved blind fight has 10 ranks of perception as a pq, how are you going to take it at level one?

My only concern with UnRogue is this part of the Sneak Attack description:

The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with total concealment.

With the Blind feats enemies no longer have concealment, but do the feats also let me "see" the enemy well enough to apply sneak attack?

correct me if im wrong, but dont improved blind fight and blinded blade require 10 and 5 ranks in perception respectively?

A blind oracle.

The Blinded Blade Style line of feats allows one to bypass the Perception ranks prereqs of Improved and Greater Blind-Fight and feats that use them as prereqs.

Handy that, well that clears up my confusion.

The Blinded Blade Style line of feats allows one to bypass the Perception ranks prereqs of Improved and Greater Blind-Fight and feats that use them as prereqs.

but blinded blade itself still needs 5 ranks of perception so you cant get it at level 1, right?

Protoman wrote:

The Blinded Blade Style line of feats allows one to bypass the Perception ranks prereqs of Improved and Greater Blind-Fight and feats that use them as prereqs.

but blinded blade itself still needs 5 ranks of perception so you cant get it at level 1, right?

That is circumvented by taking Master of Many Styles.

Protoman wrote:

The Blinded Blade Style line of feats allows one to bypass the Perception ranks prereqs of Improved and Greater Blind-Fight and feats that use them as prereqs.

but blinded blade itself still needs 5 ranks of perception so you cant get it at level 1, right?

Unarmed Fighter archetype or Master of Many Style Monk archetype ignores the prereqs of their bonus Style feat at first level.

pocsaclypse wrote:

Protoman wrote:

The Blinded Blade Style line of feats allows one to bypass the Perception ranks prereqs of Improved and Greater Blind-Fight and feats that use them as prereqs.

but blinded blade itself still needs 5 ranks of perception so you cant get it at level 1, right?

That is circumvented by taking Master of Many Styles.

well, hot damn

Lots of circumventing just to get this silly idea off the floor and walking haha.

It's not very optimal, but I'd like to think of it as a unique playstyle and fun character rp.

Lots of circumventing just to get this silly idea off the floor and walking haha.

It's not very optimal, but I'd like to think of it as a unique playstyle and fun character rp.

optimal shmoptimal. now that i see what youre doing (i crack me up sometimes) this seems like itll be a good time.

I rebuilt a playtest vigilante into a vigilante with the Blinded Blade Style feats in PFS. Very fun and useful for parties that need help zeroing in on invisible creatures or if ever stuck in a deeper darkness situation. Wish that trait existed back then, would have saved myself a feat instead of retraining an earlier feat to get Blinded Competence earlier than normal build progression would have allowed.

I picked up Headband of the Wolf to extend Blinded Blade Style's scent range by another 10 ft, or just 10 ft on its own. Scent isn't as useful as blindsight most times, but I find it useful when not blinded, or if something is bypassing blindsight somehow (new spells, feats, class features in each new book comes up with new stuff), still got an option.

If you're hoping to use concealment against your enemies, darkness might not cut it, since so many creatures got darkvision. Eversmoking bottle for 5,000 gp might be a better option since only very specific creatures can see through smoke (I think fire elementals?). More and more PFS players are equipping themselves with Goz Masks so they won't have too many issues, but if a party doesn't, maybe don't use it unless your party wants you to in order to even playing field (similar to tactics with obscuring mist).

Holy moly this is pretty cool. I'm so glad there is now actual support for blind characters. They are such staples in a lot of media, it seemed so disappointing there never has been until now.

One level of MoMS Monk Followed by Vigilante seems like the most fun, especially if you can start at 2nd and have things really going from the get-go. But maybe that's just me wanting to make Daredevil...

This doesn't allow Darkness shenanigans of course (well, absent one of the Archetypes that gets spellcasting). If you want to do that, almost any spellcaster works, though with the Vildeis thing, I'd probably go Inquisitor. That works nicely thematically.

Orodhen wrote:

Lots of circumventing just to get this silly idea off the floor and walking haha.

It's not very optimal, but I'd like to think of it as a unique playstyle and fun character rp.

optimal shmoptimal. now that i see what youre doing (i crack me up sometimes) this seems like itll be a good time.

"I see" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw. He spit in the wind and said "It all comes back to me now."

Question, this still doesn't allow blind spellcasters to cast targeted spells on creatures and objects, does it? I have a blind witch who plans to get the scar hex for a workaround, but having to get in touch range still hurts.

Here is the trait:

Blind Zeal (Vildeis): You are blind but trained by followers of Vildeis to sense your surroundings by sound and touch. You need not attempt a skill check to move at full speed. You take a –4 penalty from blindness on only Acrobatics, Ride, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth checks. You gain Blind-Fight as a bonus feat. You lose the benefits of this trait whenever you can see, but regain them if you
once again become blind.

Really? That's a trait? I mean, granted Vildeis isn't ever going to be a popular god to follow in Pathfinder, but that trait still not only outright gives you a feat, but also adds additional benefits that are arguably worth a feat themselves.

Orodhen wrote:

Here is the trait:

Blind Zeal (Vildeis): You are blind but trained by followers of Vildeis to sense your surroundings by sound and touch. You need not attempt a skill check to move at full speed. You take a –4 penalty from blindness on only Acrobatics, Ride, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth checks. You gain Blind-Fight as a bonus feat. You lose the benefits of this trait whenever you can see, but regain them if you
once again become blind.

Really? That's a trait? I mean, granted Vildeis isn't ever going to be a popular god to follow in Pathfinder, but that trait still not only outright gives you a feat, but also adds additional benefits that are arguably worth a feat themselves.

Well yeah. It also makes you permanently blind, though. So...that's not an unalloyed advantage.

If the trait makes someone blind by default, can really mess up other aspects of play even with all the other Blinded Blade Style feats: reading, dodging ranged attacks from further than 30 ft away, targeting with spells, detecting visible incorporeal creatures.

Son of the Veterinarian wrote:

Orodhen wrote:

Here is the trait:

Blind Zeal (Vildeis): You are blind but trained by followers of Vildeis to sense your surroundings by sound and touch. You need not attempt a skill check to move at full speed. You take a –4 penalty from blindness on only Acrobatics, Ride, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth checks. You gain Blind-Fight as a bonus feat. You lose the benefits of this trait whenever you can see, but regain them if you
once again become blind.

Really? That's a trait? I mean, granted Vildeis isn't ever going to be a popular god to follow in Pathfinder, but that trait still not only outright gives you a feat, but also adds additional benefits that are arguably worth a feat themselves.

Well yeah. It also makes you permanently blind, though. So...that's not an unalloyed advantage.

Ah, I missed that bit....

Nope, still not seeing how this makes for a good trait. I can all to easily see the sheer amount of abuse and whining this could bring to the table making it a contender for 'Most Banned' trait out there.

I can't imagine it being PFS legal.

If it gets disallowed in PFS, I'd guess it'll ber only due to PFS expecting characters to be able to read and there's currently no braille equivalent in Golarion (I think) rather than any potential "abuse and whining".

If you were a Half Orc, you can take Keen Scent as a Feat. With just Keen Scent and Blind Fighting, you are very functional while Blinded. Scent makes you very good at finding your opponents. Blind Fighting lets you reroll your Miss Chance. Carry around an Eversmoking Bottle.

If you were a Dwarf, you can get Tremorsense at the cost of 2 Feats.

With scent, you can also read Stink Ink. The best form of writing. All wizards with scent should use it to protect their precious secrets.

With scent, you can also read Stink Ink. The best form of writing. All wizards with scent should use it to protect their precious secrets.

A Wizard can gain Scent with a level 2 Spell. Alter Self into some form with Scent.

A blind oracle.

If you are referring to the Clouded Vision curse, that curse makes you extremely near-sighted, not blind.

I'd like to play blind character because I am blind. I was wondering how much of the stuff in this thread I could expect my DM to let me do. Am I expecting too much to ask him to let me take the Blind Zeal trait?

pocsaclypse wrote:

Orodhen wrote:

Lots of circumventing just to get this silly idea off the floor and walking haha.

It's not very optimal, but I'd like to think of it as a unique playstyle and fun character rp.

optimal shmoptimal. now that i see what youre doing (i crack me up sometimes) this seems like itll be a good time.

"I see" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw. He spit in the wind and said "It all comes back to me now."

hmmm could you use a saw as a makeshift shield or buckler? or maybe its a dual weapon fighter using a saw-back saber and a hammer.

I played a blind archer Ranger in 3.5. Most fun I've had with a character. Two feats besides Blind-Fight helped with this. Hear the Unseen allowed you to make a perception check DC 25 to pinpoint the square invisible attackers were in within 30 feet. Add the seeking property to your bow and voila! Quick Reconnoiter made the perception check a free action and gave +2 to initiative. The GM ruled for every 5 I beat the perception check, I could pinpoint opponents an additional 5 feet away. It did require a lot of patience to get to a level where you become an effective combatant.