Pathfinder Player Companion: Bastards of Golarion (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Player Companion: Bastards of Golarion (PFRPG)
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Unlock the powers of your ancestors and combine the might of two worlds with Pathfinder Player Companion: Bastards of Golarion! Whether you’re the abandoned progeny of elven royalty or the feared result of hag trickery, your lineage is both strange and storied, and you must channel the brawn and guile of your forebears to prove yourself to a harsh and uncaring world—no matter the costs.

Inside this book, you’ll find:

  • Ten new heritages and alternate racial traits for half-elves and half-orcs—from the seafaring children of aquatic elves to the brash kin of desert orcs.
  • Details and new character options for adventurers from the famous half-elven refuge of Erages and the half-orc port city of Averaka.
  • Four character themes to represent bastards of all races and pasts, including the envied celebrity, the misbegotten illegitimate, the scorned outcast, and the neglected unfortunate.
  • A slew of generation tables to inspire grim character backgrounds and determine the physical features inherited from non-human progenitors.
  • New archetypes, feats, spells, magic items, traits and more for bastard characters of all walks!

This Pathfinder Player Companion is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be incorporated into any fantasy world.

Written by Judy Bauer, Neal Litherland, Ryan Macklin, and David N. Ross.
Cover Art by Ralph Horsley.

Each monthly 32-page Pathfinder Player Companion contains several player-focused articles exploring the volume’s theme as well as short articles with innovative new rules for all types of characters, as well as traits to better anchor the player to the campaign.

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-602-7

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

Hero Lab Online
Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop
Archives of Nethys

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3.00/5 (based on 4 ratings)

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Not worth the price

2/5

This product would have gotten four stars were it half the price. At its listed retail, however, the value just isn't there.

There are some wonderful illustrations of the common fantasy half-breeds, especially half-orcs. However, the work itself seems a bit unfocused, with not enough material in some cases (gill men) and bland material in others. What crunch there is seems to be so minor or insignificant as to be an after thought.

The true "bastards" - half-tiefling, half-aasimars, etc. - are relegated to a paragraph apiece. A true shame and a missed opportunity.

A large swath of this work was devoted to character backgrounds - material that could have been condensed to one or two paragraphs per concept, leaving more room for discussion on actual half-breeds.

A work on this subject could have easily been double this size and packed with awesome information. It's very unlikely we'll ever get that chance again for Pathfinder.


Bastards of Heroics

5/5

After looking at this book again recently, I can say that it is much better then I thought it would be. Not only do half-elves and half-orcs get a lot of love but several other races get a little something cool as well.


Pretty good

3/5

Read my full review on Of Dice and Pen.

Bastards of Golarion is a rather better book than I was expecting, even if it does at times seem unsure of its focus. It contains a lot of advice and suggestions for creating characters who are either half-human characters or outcasts from society in some way or another. As with any Pathfinder Player Companion, there are quite a few new mechanical options, but these are mostly limited to new traits that help support the “fluff” of the book. The emphasis of the book is very much on the background information, and this pleased me a great deal.


Disappointing

2/5

A disappointing book that tries to do too much. You get some good fluff and an occasional gem amidst a lot of chaff and a few real head-scratchers. Admittedly, Half-Elves are my favourite core race and I was hoping for better quality content than what I found here.

Positives: Good fluff all round. Half-Orc Subraces are well done. Great cover and I have to single out the Half-Orc pic on page 10 for making me consider playing my least favourite race.

Negatives: Most of the new options are forgettable. Far too many races with their own dedicated Players Companions are represented. Background and Distant Heritage options are things you could work out for yourself with little actual mechanics.

I have to call out some specifics now as examples; some of this stuff perplexes me. The Shoreborn give up Low-light Vision and Keen Senses for Swim and Sailing buffs; the buffs are understandable but you’d think Aquatic blood would make for better vision rather than worse. Spireborn are a little too good, they trade Adaptability for Spell-Like abilities. The rest generally trade Elven Immunities for terrain-specific skill buffs which are of questionable utility aside from very specific campaign settings.

The Unusual Origins feat is actually four feats, depending on which of the applicable races you are. Why isn’t it four separate feats? I don’t know, I can’t think of a single reason why. This one feat takes up an entire double page spread too with some seriously ugly artwork. I hate saying that but that particular piece of artwork rubs me in every wrong way possible.


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Look Bastards of Golarion works. And for the record, it is far less offensive than Half-Breeds, Half-Bloods, Metis, or any other mixed blood adjective that I can come-up with of the top of my head would be (and I can come up with several that would get me banned from the boards for a period I suspect, or which at the very least would net me a reprimand and the removal of the post.)


Jim Groves wrote:

NOT AS A PAIZO REPRESENTATIVE

I like the existing title because:

1.) It sounds like a cool title to me.

2.) Half-breeds and half-bloods of Golarion sounds awkward in my opinion.

3.) Now that I know it is not about about evil-doers, con men, or other ne'er-do-wells. I will not ever be confused about it again.

Don't you just love using that word? Ne'er-do-well!!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Leo_Negri wrote:

Look Bastards of Golarion works. And for the record, it is far less offensive than Half-Breeds, Half-Bloods, Metis, or any other mixed blood adjective that I can come-up with of the top of my head would be (and I can come up with several that would get me banned from the boards for a period I suspect, or which at the very least would net me a reprimand and the removal of the post.)

Oh I don't care about offending people with the word bastard. I just think the title would've been better used for a villain book.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's one of those words whose uncommon non-pejorative usage got eclipsed by common pejorative usage.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Odraude wrote:

3.) Now that I know it is not about about evil-doers, con men, or other ne'er-do-wells. I will not ever be confused about it again.

Don't you just love using that word? Ne'er-do-well!!

I do!

I'm serious though. I withheld some snark from my original post, but I mean it. By the time you complain about how the the title confused you, you are no longer confused.

Unless you have a really freaky short term memory problem, that issue fixes itself in short order.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

For me it is not a conflict between 'half breed' usage and 'perjorative' usage (akin to 'a%@#%&+' 'jerk' 'wretched scum' etc),
but that it just means 'child born out of wedlock' (with absent father), with no particular connoation of 'half breed' at all.
That usage had a perjorative tone in the cultural context, and that was eventually broadened to a more general perjorative usage,
but that is the ultimate meaning of it, not 'half breed', AFAIK.

Quote:

Definition of BASTARD

1
: an illegitimate child
2
: something that is spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
3
a : an offensive or disagreeable person —used as a generalized term of abuse

Synonyms
baseborn, illegitimate, misbegotten, natural, spurious, supposititious, unfathered

Antonyms
legitimate

Related Words
fatherless, motherless; nameless; adopted, orphaned

Nothing about half-breeds or anything like that. Maybe more half-breeds are bastards than the average in the Golarion context of humanoid races, but they're not really even related terms.


What WOULD be appropriate to the term 'bastard' is the Changeling race.
Are they included in this product?


Jim Groves wrote:
Odraude wrote:

3.) Now that I know it is not about about evil-doers, con men, or other ne'er-do-wells. I will not ever be confused about it again.

Don't you just love using that word? Ne'er-do-well!!

I do!

I'm serious though. I withheld some snark from my original post, but I mean it. By the time you complain about how the the title confused you, you are no longer confused.

Unless you have a really freaky short term memory problem, that issue fixes itself in short order.

I'm like the girl from 50 First Dates, only I'm a large, male Puerto Rican ;)

I guess I have no choice but to accept this as the title :p


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hand-and-a-Halves of Golarion?

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Odraude wrote:
I guess I have no choice but to accept this as the title :p

No, please don't let me bully you into accepting it. Who knows? They might change their mind.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Also, OMG, me and Beckett agree on something. Somebody mark that day in the calendar.

More like "omg! Gorbacz bring puritanical after constantly lambasting the US for that" :p


Cheapy wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Also, OMG, me and Beckett agree on something. Somebody mark that day in the calendar.
More like "omg! Gorbacz bring puritanical after constantly lambasting the US for that" :p

Pretty much that. Showing boobies is fine, but apparently curse words are a no-no ;)

Don't worry Mr. Gorbacz. I promise to keep my language PG for you :p

Jim Groves wrote:
Odraude wrote:
I guess I have no choice but to accept this as the title :p
No, please don't let me bully you into accepting it. Who knows? They might change their mind.

It's too late! I've been scarred for life by your internet bullying :p

Naw don't worry. Either way, I'll enjoy this book.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Cheapy wrote:
More like "omg! Gorbacz bring puritanical after constantly lambasting the US for that" :p

The bag stands so accused.

What say you, oh hungry satchel?


Golly gee willikers, I hope that swell bag of devouring isn't too peeved at us. I'd feel like I'd go straight to H-E double hockey stick if I kept talking blue :)

<3

Shadow Lodge

Heine Stick wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
Now, on there other hand, I would guess that most Half-Elves and many Half-Orcs these days are probably the products of two Half-Elf (or half-Orc) parents rather than the alternatives.
Do the specifics of a half-elf/orc's parentage (elf/human or half-elf/half-elf) really matter in social situations where merely being a half-elf means that person is somehow inferior socially? Something that, according to the Core Rulebook at least, seems to be relatively widespread among human and elven societies. It's still a half-breed or, in the eyes of those for whom its mixed blood is an issue, a bastard.

Um, probably, yes. And to whom exactly are they see as inferior to? What exactly are you referring to where half-Elves (or Half-Orcs for that matter) are the social outcasts of society, 'cause I don't see it very much. The only Half-Elf bastard (both was and was treated as such), I can ever think of is Tanis, which isn't even Golarion or Pathfinder at all.

So why exactly would two Half-Elves loath their Half-Elf child, or the father just automatically walk out on it because it's a stupid/weak Half-Elf below his recognition?

It might be a lot better to look at the common shared attribute between both the Half-Elf and Half-Orc races that is pretty universal in that they are the child two worlds that need to find their balance and understand their drives, rather than assume that they are the disgraced mutt in everyone else's eyes. Thoughts? In both cases, Half-Orcs and Half-Elves in Golarion are presented as having the best traits to both their parent groups.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jim Groves wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
More like "omg! Gorbacz bring puritanical after constantly lambasting the US for that" :p

The bag stands so accused.

What say you, oh hungry satchel?

Out of my 100 uses of the word "bastard" 90 of them are when I go "that $&*#$ bastard". Figures, perhaps people use it differently in that puritanical fascist Amurica! They go like "Tom is a jolly old bastard" or "that nice bastard in the grocery store sold me some great apples!". Wait, that would be Canadians...

Shadow Lodge

From the Inner Sea World Guide:

Half-Elves:
Half-elves have no ancestral homeland and seldom gather in groups composed explicitly of their kind. Instead, most try to fit within either human or elven society. They generally thrive in human communities, where they frequently become artists, bards, or entertainers. Despite this warm welcome, many half-elves avoid mixing with their human cousins, for foremost among the racial gifts granted to them by their elven progenitors is a long natural life.

Half-Orcs:
Farther from these strongholds, in the cosmopolitan cities of the Inner Sea and Garund, such orc terror is of little concern, and half-orcs often enjoy lives relatively free from bigotry and suspicion. Still, half-orcs often find it difficult to shed their savage natures and adapt to the world of humans. Impatient, impulsive, greedy, prone to violence when frustrated, and often none too bright, half-orcs nevertheless embody the full range of human emotion and imagination.

which is proceeded by

Orcs/Half-Orcs:
Half-orcs have long been the object of derision and hatred. While many orc tribes value the weaker half-breeds for their natural cunning, and in fact conduct raids into human lands specifically to breed more intelligent leaders, humans and most other races see half-orcs as unfortunate and unwanted progeny born of violence or perversion, a repulsive mix of two lines that should not cross. Half-orcs’ inner conflicts make them prone to cruelty and loneliness, with ferocious tempers and burning desire to survive—traits that serve them well as guards, gladiators, or adventurers.
, but is specifically talking about certain locations and the brutal and evil Orcs and Half-Orcs.


Gorbacz wrote:
Jim Groves wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
More like "omg! Gorbacz bring puritanical after constantly lambasting the US for that" :p

The bag stands so accused.

What say you, oh hungry satchel?

Out of my 100 uses of the word "bastard" 90 of them are when I go "that $&*#$ bastard". Figures, perhaps people use it differently in that puritanical fascist Amurica! They go like "Tom is a jolly old bastard" or "that nice bastard in the grocery store sold me some great apples!". Wait, that would be Canadians...

I still think you are nifty keen :)

Neato.


Quandary wrote:


For me it is not a conflict between 'half breed' usage and 'perjorative' usage (akin to 'a++#&!%' 'jerk' 'wretched scum' etc),
but that it just means 'child born out of wedlock' (with absent father), with no particular connoation of 'half breed' at all.
That usage had a perjorative tone in the cultural context, and that was eventually broadened to a more general perjorative usage,
but that is the ultimate meaning of it, not 'half breed', AFAIK.

Quote:

Definition of BASTARD

1
: an illegitimate child
2
: something that is spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
3
a : an offensive or disagreeable person —used as a generalized term of abuse

Synonyms
baseborn, illegitimate, misbegotten, natural, spurious, supposititious, unfathered

Antonyms
legitimate

Related Words
fatherless, motherless; nameless; adopted, orphaned

Nothing about half-breeds or anything like that. Maybe more half-breeds are bastards than the average in the Golarion context of humanoid races, but they're not really even related terms.

It doesn't have anything to do with half breeds in real life because there is only one species in real life. Homo sapiens. The closest you can come is to look at antique terms for "mixed race" people irl like "mulatto" (a person of mixed ancestry, black and white, or otherwise). Mulatto is not in current usage. "Mulattos of Golarian" wouldn't cut it as a title. Given the disparities in life span and the cultural differences between the actual races in a fantasy setting most, but not all I'm sure, children of mixed blood are likely to be bastards, technically speaking, whether you take that pejoratively or not. Besides, it's about time people learned to stop using the term bastard as a pejorative.


Gorbacz wrote:
"that nice bastard in the grocery store sold me some great apples!". Wait, that would be Canadians...

I wished we talked like that. Might spice up conversation a bit. Maybe I'll bring it up at the next "all Canadians know each other" meeting. ;)


Aussies used to talk like that, and in some places still do. I'm reminded of an incident during an Ashes series, now immortalised by TV Tropes: "Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?" (Warning: TV Tropes link and NSFW language.) :D


From the title I thought this was going to about rough villains like pirates, thugs, bandits and marauders.

"Bastards of Golarion" doesn't call to mind half-elves.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Jeven wrote:

From the title I thought this was going to about rough villains like pirates, thugs, bandits and marauders.

"Bastards of Golarion" doesn't call to mind half-elves.

Actually, half-orcs and half-elves were the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the title :-)

And I prefer "bastards" because it is a name that those called such can then use and twist to make it gain greater significance and an epithet of pride.

Half-breed, half-blood are far worse IMO because they imply that you are NOT a full person. You are only a half.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I'd point out that 'Bastards of Golarion' was floated around the boards for this kind of as far back as 2008, and I wish I could take credit for the name.* :P

So yes, it came to mind exactly for the 'half-breeds of Golarion' type book.

Besides, Bar-Sinisters of Golarion would be too confusing, and insulting to lefties.

Keep the name.

Spoiler:
I wasn't sure if I was the first to post it, but can't find any proof I was. I *do* like the name though.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

1. It's edgy.
2. It's RECLAIMING language from the pejorative. We understand the etymology of the word.
3. Most players like to be something of an outsider so it's good marketing on that level too.
4. It helps create a 'thematic' vision for certain races and how they are viewed by the general (mainly human) populace in the world.
5. It takes a stand against people who use political correctness as a weapon of social control (albeit on a small scale) and helps define what this hobby stands for socially.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

But what about those half-elves/half-orcs that aren't actually bastards? :)


Zaister wrote:
But what about those half-elves/half-orcs that aren't actually bastards? :)

Interspecies marriages aren't recognized on Golarion so they're all bastards.

Sovereign Court

I'm guessing this is just going to be one of those things that slides along because Paizo is American so who cares about the rest of the world.

Maybe Bastard is edgy-but-inoffensive in the States but over here in the UK it is an insult and nothing else (unless you're watching a history documentary, but they're more likely to use the term 'illegitimate child' than 'bastard').

Plenty of parents over here would be uncomfortable buying their kids Bastards of Golarion. I read my Paizo books at work and leave them on my desk but leaving Bastards of Golarion will get me some funny looks. Looks I'd rather not get.

I look forward to Shitheads of Golarion...

Oh, and Mead:

Thanks for implying that anyone who disagrees with you is just "one of the people that complains just to complain". It's great that you're happy being casually dismissive of other people's opinions. That's just great.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It really is a no-win situation for Paizo Publishing, isn't it? With the dance hall incident plenty of fans accused Paizo of catering to a very conservative audience and now we Europeans are up in arms because they've chosen to use a word we might not be 100% comfortable with. To be honest, I fear we're moving slowly but steadily into baatezu/tanar'ri territory.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I really don't understand why using a word that might contain negative qualities is such a horrible thing. Are the words "brothel" and "bastard" really so terrible than the mere notion of having the words in a roleplaying game book is offensive?

If so, then Paizo might just have to start looking into changing a helluva lot of words and phrases for their game and setting...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think the truth of it is simple. You don't like it, vote with your wallets.

Most folks know me, that I'm more conservative than most of the posters here/players that I game with. I've not seen anything that has offended me enough to make me stop buying Paizo products.

If Paizo makes product that is designed to not offend anyone they can close their doors now. Because it's impossible.

Don't like it? Voice your opinion, vote with your wallet.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Just for the record: as a European, I have no problem with the word "bastard", even if I think the title sounds a bit weird or doesn't really reflect the contents. It sounds more like a title for a novel than a handbook. :)

I also have no problem with the renamed brothel, nor would I if it had not be renamed. I can understand the renaming from the viewpoint that the rulebooks are intended to be "PG13", though.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Don't like it? Voice your opinion, vote with your wallet.

Sound advice. Of course, the former has been covered quite extensively in this thread, I think, whether for or against. :)


Zaister wrote:
...as a European, I have no problem with the word "bastard"...

Same here. It was a generalization based on what I've seen here and elsewhere on the subject. :)

Zaister wrote:
...even if I think the title sounds a bit weird or doesn't really reflect the contents.

Interestingly enough (for me at least), I made an instant connection between the book's current title and its content. It's really quite fascinating how our perception of these things vary as wildly as they do. :)

Zaister wrote:
It sounds more like a title for a novel than a handbook. :)

This I agree with. :)


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

Really really looking forward to an expansion of half-orc origins beyond the usual tragedy* and some cultural roots for them to pull from. :)

*Like support for characters born from consenting human/orc couplings.

This comic is for you. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There's a difference between "OMG Paizo violates my sensitivity, not gonna buy the book" and "Well some folks might be offended by the title, not my case but thought I'll discuss this". I'm the latter. I'll get the book anyway. You know that I am a godless Euro monster who had a threesome with Pope and Freddie Mercury in Berlusconi's villa, so there's little that can shift me.

The difference between "brothel" and "bastard" is that the former is not a swear word in any case AND doesn't appear on the cover, while the latter is to me, just like with GeraintElberion, a firm profanity in most cases. I've been taught the British English, I like my toast done on one side, and bastards feature in my vocabulary only when I want to inflict verbal harm. Heck, even when I write "katanas should be just bastard swords" it's a vicious attack...

So if, say, ever get kids, have them educated in English in a similar way to me, and then show them "Bastards of Golarion" I might have some explaining to do. Of course, if they bump into a "brothel" I'll happily explain that brothels are places of joy and fun and we'll go visit one once they turn 18! :P


Gorbacz wrote:
You know that I am a godless Euro monster who had a threesome with Pope and Freddie Mercury in Berlusconi's villa, so there's little that can shift me.

[OT]

Ow. Right in my teeth.
Why in all gods' name must all my people be defined by a sexuomaniac, greedy NE Gnome Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier, why, o why?!?! Where are the heroes when we need them to put him in a sanatory?!
[/OT]

Liberty's Edge

6 people marked this as a favorite.

The problem there, though, is that Vic's right - we've already had a Paizo book with "Bastards" in the title, and no one seemed to flinch then. For that matter, as you yourself just pointed out, we've already got "bastard swords" in the game, and strangely no one seems bothered by those...


Gorbacz wrote:
The difference between "brothel" and "bastard" is that the former is not a swear word in any case AND doesn't appear on the cover, while the latter is to me, just like with GeraintElberion, a firm profanity in most cases.

Point well taken. That said, as I perceive the discussion in both cases, both words are perceived as negative by a relatively large section of the fanbase. In the case of the brothel, it was deemed so negative that they wouldn't even include it on page XX in Ultimate Campaign, and my concern is that there seems to be a tendency leaning slightly toward the same issues as the demon/devil travesty of old. If that's the case, then that's a bad sign.

That said, discussion is always a good thing, and this is certainly an interesting one.

Silver Crusade

magnuskn wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

Really really looking forward to an expansion of half-orc origins beyond the usual tragedy* and some cultural roots for them to pull from. :)

*Like support for characters born from consenting human/orc couplings.

This comic is for you. :)

I can't adequately express how much I long to see that sort of thing given a completely serious treatment. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bardess wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
You know that I am a godless Euro monster who had a threesome with Pope and Freddie Mercury in Berlusconi's villa, so there's little that can shift me.

[OT]

Ow. Right in my teeth.
Why in all gods' name must all my people be defined by a sexuomaniac, greedy NE Gnome Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier, why, o why?!?! Where are the heroes when we need them to put him in a sanatory?!
[/OT]

This is your punishment for that whole "make Mediterranean our Inner Sea" idea from the previous century and everything that went down with it. And we're really being generous here, we could still be harping that OTHER gnome ... you know, the black chain shirt one. ;)


That was a shaved dwarf. ;) Plus, have compassion of our grandfathers... It's difficult to resist a Demagogue Bard pretending to be the Ultimate Oracle of Battle. ;)


Eh. I wouldn't really mind if Paizo published a book called "Muthaf!@$as of Golarion", but only as long as it dealt with how different cultures of Golarion deal with incest and not, say, gangsta rappers. As far as I care, if someone married a goat and had kids with the afromentioned goat, the kids wouldn't be bastards. And would you dare to call the adorable little fluffy half-goat, half-human hybrids bastards? (Yes you would. Meanie.)


Shisumo wrote:
The problem there, though, is that Vic's right - we've already had a Paizo book with "Bastards" in the title, and no one seemed to flinch then.

I'm not at all offended by the word, just by the inaccuracy. The title implies that humans and elves never marry each other and have children -- or, for that matter, half-elves don't marry half-elves or half-orcs, half-orcs. As if Golarion has a blanket law forbidding the solemnization of interracial marriage (or preventing half-humans from marrying at all). The word bastard in its non-pejorative sense refers to birth resulting from an unsanctioned relationship, not mixed blood.


Joana wrote:


Shisumo wrote:


The problem there, though, is that Vic's right - we've already had a Paizo book with "Bastards" in the title, and no one seemed to flinch then.
I'm not at all offended by the word, just by the inaccuracy. The title implies that humans and elves never marry each other and have children -- or, for that matter, half-elves don't marry half-elves or half-orcs, half-orcs. As if Golarion has a blanket law forbidding the solemnization of interracial marriage (or preventing half-humans from marrying at all). The word bastard in its non-pejorative sense refers to birth resulting from an unsanctioned relationship, not mixed blood.

Inaccurate? Maybe not in terms of how Golarion society at large sees them which would be the thrust of the title. And, as you say many would be technically "bastards" as well.


Zaister wrote:
But what about those half-elves/half-orcs that aren't actually bastards? :)

Originally bastard had nothing to do with marriage. It was irregular/dubious origins. It changed due to religious reasons, and not all of us are of that religion.


Joana wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
The problem there, though, is that Vic's right - we've already had a Paizo book with "Bastards" in the title, and no one seemed to flinch then.
I'm not at all offended by the word, just by the inaccuracy. The title implies that humans and elves never marry each other and have children -- or, for that matter, half-elves don't marry half-elves or half-orcs, half-orcs. As if Golarion has a blanket law forbidding the solemnization of interracial marriage (or preventing half-humans from marrying at all). The word bastard in its non-pejorative sense refers to birth resulting from an unsanctioned relationship, not mixed blood.

This use of bastard has nothing to do with marriage. Such a simple concept, not sure why people don't get that the word had meanings long before it was used that way.

Hel, what is an unsanctioned relationship anyway?


etymology of "bastard"

Quote:

"illegitimate child," early 13c., from Old French bastard (11c., Modern French bâtard), "acknowledged child of a nobleman by a woman other than his wife," probably from fils de bast "packsaddle son," meaning a child conceived on an improvised bed (saddles often doubled as beds while traveling), with pejorative ending -art (see -ard). Alternative possibly is that the word is from Proto-Germanic *banstiz "barn," equally suggestive of low origin.

Not always regarded as a stigma; the Conqueror is referred to in state documents as "William the Bastard." Figurative sense of "something not pure or genuine" is late 14c.; use as a vulgar term of abuse for a man is attested from 1830. As an adjective from late 14c. Among the "bastard" words in Halliwell-Phillipps' "Dictionary of Archaic and Provincial Words" are avetrol, chance-bairn, by-blow, harecoppe, horcop, and gimbo ("a bastard's bastard").

Meaning of an illegitimate child -- as a bare fact rather than a stigma -- predates the figurative use by almost two centuries (four, if you go back to the original French).


Joana wrote:

etymology of "bastard"

Quote:

"illegitimate child," early 13c., from Old French bastard (11c., Modern French bâtard), "acknowledged child of a nobleman by a woman other than his wife," probably from fils de bast "packsaddle son," meaning a child conceived on an improvised bed (saddles often doubled as beds while traveling), with pejorative ending -art (see -ard). Alternative possibly is that the word is from Proto-Germanic *banstiz "barn," equally suggestive of low origin.

Not always regarded as a stigma; the Conqueror is referred to in state documents as "William the Bastard." Figurative sense of "something not pure or genuine" is late 14c.; use as a vulgar term of abuse for a man is attested from 1830. As an adjective from late 14c. Among the "bastard" words in Halliwell-Phillipps' "Dictionary of Archaic and Provincial Words" are avetrol, chance-bairn, by-blow, harecoppe, horcop, and gimbo ("a bastard's bastard").

Meaning of an illegitimate child -- as a bare fact rather than a stigma -- predates the figurative use by almost two centuries (four, if you go back to the original French).

That isn't the original meaning.

Irregular and dubious origins was the original. Illegitimate counts as that. Hence the proto-Germanic origin in the very link you used.

The bottom line is you may not like the word, or think it fits. Many do.

I really wish people in this world would grow up and stop complaining about everything. I swear, we live in a world of 10 year olds on a playground.

You are also insulting anyone that has had kids or relatives born out of wedlock by treating it as if it is a negative.

Shadow Lodge

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Joana wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
The problem there, though, is that Vic's right - we've already had a Paizo book with "Bastards" in the title, and no one seemed to flinch then.
I'm not at all offended by the word, just by the inaccuracy. The title implies that humans and elves never marry each other and have children -- or, for that matter, half-elves don't marry half-elves or half-orcs, half-orcs. As if Golarion has a blanket law forbidding the solemnization of interracial marriage (or preventing half-humans from marrying at all). The word bastard in its non-pejorative sense refers to birth resulting from an unsanctioned relationship, not mixed blood.

That's my main gripe, too, it implies something that is clearly wrong and negative. Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are NOT shunned in Golarion, or viewed as lesser races. They are generally accepted and liked, as I pointed out above. It also implies that most Half-Elves and Half-Orcs only come from a scandalous mating between a Human and an Elf or Orc, which is probably not the case that often anymore.


Besides, no one against it is offering an alternative. I would guess even more people would complain about halfbreeds, halfbloods, or other terms. I did offer Swirlies of Golarion, but my guess is that's a no go.

So, does anyone have a better name?

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