Magus Clarification

Okay so I have. Run into trouble a few times with my magus due to varying degrees of GM knowledge. The magus is my favorite character to play but I hate having to change how I play based on how my current GM interpets the books. So here is what I would like can someone describe in detail what happens when my magus preforms the follwing actions:
1)Beginning of my turn starts with my Magus right next to an enemy.
2)Deliver shocking grasp to the enemy via spellstrike with my sword using a free melee attack (spellstrike). Hits(noncrit).
3)Deliver actual melee attack. Hits (noncrit)
P.S. Level 5 magus with an attack bonus of +6 and weilding a longsword, thanks.

UmbraCorvus, I guess I'm a little confused. Do you believe that Pathfinder Society has special rules for this situation, or are you merely asking what the game rules are for how Spellstrike works?

Because, as far as I know, the rules for a magus' Spellstrike work the same way in PFS as they do in the base game.

You write of your "current GM". Is this for a home campaign? Otherwise, if the GM isn't following the rules, sit at anther table.

So what has your GM been saying they do? Do you have a copy of the magus to show him? Does he know you get a free attack because you cast a touch spell that your using with spell combat to effectively two weapon fight(with spell in one hand, weapon in the other) and that your using your spell strike class feature(which sis a totally different thing) to deliver it with your weapon?

Shouldn't you be a crow?

1)Beginning of my turn starts with my Magus right next to an enemy.
2)Deliver shocking grasp to the enemy via spellstrike with my sword using a free melee attack (spellstrike). Hits(noncrit).
3)Deliver actual melee attack. Hits (noncrit)

Not a magus expert but I'll take a shot at this. How I think it works..

If you are using spellstrike, the sword attack simply takes the place of the touch attack you would normally get. So you make the concentration check, and if successful you whack with your sword against their normal AC. If you hit you deal spell damage and the spell goes off.

If you use the headache inducing combination of spellstrike AND

Perhaps you were saying "I want to spellstrike" so the DM was only giving you one attack?

Sorry to clarify the Magus in question would be using spellstrike with spell combat. I am posting this here because I only run into this problem while playing PFS, so I would like a rule breakdown that I can use to say, "No this is how this works."

Does this help?

This Changes the mechanics of Spell Combat plus Spellstrike from

Full Attack + Touch Spell

to

Full Attack + Touch Spell + Free Attack

This is correct. In its previous incarnation, spellstrike was not even really a bonus.

Jason Bulmahn

So here is what I would like can someone describe in detail what happens when my magus preforms the follwing actions:

1)Beginning of my turn starts with my Magus right next to an enemy.
2)Deliver shocking grasp to the enemy via spellstrike with my sword using a free melee attack (spellstrike). Hits(noncrit).
3)Deliver actual melee attack. Hits (noncrit)
P.S. Level 5 magus with an attack bonus of +6 and weilding a longsword, thanks.

Here's the sequence of actions.

1. Declare the spell combat full action. This lets you cast a magus spell either before or after your attacks, at the penalty of a -2 to attacks for the round. You may, at this point, opt to increase your penalty to attacks to gain a bonus to your concentration check to cast a spell defensively (step 2a).

2. Declare that you are casting shocking grasp before you make your normal attacks, and decide if you're casting defensively (2a) or provoking an attack of opportunity (2b). You must also decide at this point if you are going to use spellstrike (3a) or not (3b) with your casting of shocking grasp.

2a. If you cast defensively, roll a concentration check, possibly with a bonus from spell combat. If you succeed, your spell is cast successfully. Proceed to step 3. If you fail, proceed to step 4.

2b. If you provoked an attack of opportunity, your GM resolves that. If you take damage, you will have to make a concentration check to avoid losing the spell. If you don't get hit, or succeed at your concentration check, your spell is cast successfully. Proceed to step 3. If you failed, proceed to step 4.

3. Resolve the shocking grasp spell that has been cast. If you used spellstrike, go to 3a. If you cast it without spellstrike, proceed to 3b.

3a. Make a normal melee attack with your weapon at a -2 penalty (from spell combat) against your opponent's normal AC. If you hit, the attack deals damage as normal, plus the target takes damage from the shocking grasp spell. If you crit, you can also double the shocking grasp damage, in addition to normal crit effects. If you miss, you still have the charge of the spell on your weapon. Proceed to step 4.

3b. You reach out and attempt to touch the target with your shocking grasp spell. You make a touch attack against the target at a -2 penalty (from spell combat). If you hit, they take damage from the shocking grasp as normal. If you crit, you can deal double damage with the spell. If you miss, you still have the shocking grasp on your hand, and can make an attack with it next round.

4. You make a full attack action as normal, except for the following caveats: You have to have a free hand the whole time, and you suffer a -2 penalty on all attacks. If you missed with your extra attack from a spellstrike and hit with your weapon, the shocking grasp still goes off. If you missed with a non-spellstrike, you can make attacks with that spell as a touch attack, or with the longsword and the touch spell using the normal two-weapon fighting rules.

That help any?

Just to clarify: Your PFS (not a home game, but actual Pathfinder Society Organized Play) GM is not allowing you to use spell combat to cast a touch spell, use spellstrike to make a weapon attack in place of the touch attack allowed by the spell, and then attack normally?

This is basic to the class. It's like saying that fighters can't five-foot-step and full attack, or that wizards have to make a concentration check every time they cast a spell (for no reason).

I played my magus PFS PC for the first time in nearly a year last week. I was so hazy on the rules that I had to delay in combat for part of a round while I got them straight in my head, so I can believe that there are GMs out there that don't understand the class, especially if they've never played a magus themselves.

You could always point them towards Grick's Guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat, or even print out a copy to have with you at the table. It's an excellent explanation of how the various abilities interact.

Okay so I have. Run into trouble a few times with my magus due to varying degrees of GM knowledge. The magus is my favorite character to play but I hate having to change how I play based on how my current GM interpets the books. So here is what I would like can someone describe in detail what happens when my magus preforms the follwing actions:

1)Beginning of my turn starts with my Magus right next to an enemy.
2)Deliver shocking grasp to the enemy via spellstrike with my sword using a free melee attack (spellstrike). Hits(noncrit).
3)Deliver actual melee attack. Hits (noncrit)
P.S. Level 5 magus with an attack bonus of +6 and weilding a longsword, thanks.

Note: If this is all you tell your GM, it is unsurprising that you and he are treating things differently.

1) Okay, next to an enemy, fine. Standard basing rules apply.
2) As written in your description here, that is not accurate.

You are not specifying at this point as to whether you are using Spell Combat to cast shocking grasp, or are holding a charge from a previous round's cast.

If it is a held charge, YOU DO NOT RECEIVE ANOTHER FREE ATTACK WITH IT, you only receive that free touch attack on the round you cast a touch spell.

So, if you are using Spell Combat, you get your normal melee longsword attack at -2 (or more if transferring attack bonus into concentration bonus), potentially with the +3 bonus for attacking an opponent in metal armor or wielding a metal weapon. You also get the free touch attack, translated by Spellstrike into another longsword attack, with the same modifiers as your other longsword attack.

If you are using a held charge, because you missed your target the previous round, or you weren't able to get into melee range of him the round you cast it, you can use Spellstrike to attempt to deliver the held spell through your longsword, no penalty, potentially +3 from shocking grasp.

As a third option, which has to be declared before your first attack, you can attempt to use Spell Combat again, taking the appropriate penalties, and use Spellstrike to attempt to deliver the held charge, then attempt to cast a spell using Spell Combat, but, even if you missed on your regular attack, the held charge goes away, and you get whatever spell you just cast, with, depending on the spell, a possible free attack to try and deliver it on your opponent.

Again, though, if you missed your attack from the touch spell, or didn't get the attack from the spell for some reason, you do not receive another free attack to deliver it on later rounds.

I just figured all magi loaded up on pearls ala Barbara bush until someone pointed out the arcane mark trick...

Ok, so this is actually fairly simple. Here is the deal.

Spell Combat
Full-round action to use. Once engaged, you perform all of the following in any order.
1). Make a full-attack with the light or one-handed melee weapon you carry. All of these attacks suffer a -2 penalty to hit.
2). Cast a single magus spell. It behaves in all ways as written (provoking attacks of opportunity, allows option to cast defensively, ect.). If it required a touch attack, you touch bare handed, and suffer a -2 penalty to hit.
3). Take a single 5-foot step.

Spellstrike
When you cast a touch range spell, you may deliver that spell through your melee weapon (as making a normal melee attack). This combined attack is now delivered as a melee attack against normal AC. If you hit, you deliver both normal weapon damage plus the effects of the touch spell.

Where it gets confusing for some is that you can employ both of these class features at the same time. When that happens, you do the following as a full-round action:

1). Make a full-attack with the light or one-handed melee weapon you carry. All of these attacks suffer a -2 penalty to hit.
2). Cast a single magus touch-range spell (again provoking, ect.). Make one additional attack roll with your melee weapon at your highest attack bonus, including the -2 penalty, against normal AC (not touch AC). If you hit, you deliver both normal weapon damage plus the effects of the touch spell.
3). Take a single 5-foot step.

Note: Because of the nature of touch spells and holding a charge, the best option is to take #2 as the first part of your action, and after doing so as long as any of your attacks land that round, the touch spell will be delivered.

I second the use of Grick's Guide. I even linked it on my profile so I could quickly access it during games. It took me a few levels before I could wrap my head around the Magus' mechanics.

Two suggestions:

Ask your GM if they've played a Magus before. If they haven't, encourage them to make one and research their abilities. The best way to understand how a class works is to play one yourself.

Be sure you're declaring what you're doing ahead of time. If you don't begin with something like "I'm spending my full round action to perform Spell Combat, starting with casting X spell defensively using Spellstrike", then as far as I'm concerned you didn't do it, and you're just rolling dice for fun. Your GM may just be making sure you're playing the class correctly.

My first character in PFS (and Pathfinder in general) was a magus. I have also run into a couple of GMs who were unfamiliar with the lovely combination that is spellstrike and spell combat. Being that all of these occurrences we at conventions, I did not argue at the table. I simply went with their ruling in order to not bog down gameplay. After the game, I would talk to them and enlighten them on the correct rules.

I wish that I had known about the Jason Bullman post that BNW linked to. I would have just printed it out to keep with the character to show GMs if need be. I also HIGHLY recommend reading Grick's Guide. I found it to be very helpful.

On a semi-related note, it is possible to deliver up to 2 shocking grasps in a round (3 at higher levels):

1. As you approach your target cast shocking grasp and hold the charge
2. Use your full round action to spell combat in the following sequence:

Spellstrike with held charge (this counts as your normal attack), cast shocking grasp, deliver shocking grasp with spellstrike.

At higher levels you can throw in a quickened shocking grasp for another spellstrike.

Just to be clear, your GM is not permitted to make "judgement calls" on written mechanics like spellstrike. It does what it says it does. Reading comprehension problems can muddy this, however.

There is also an errata that allows spell combat to function as a regular full-attack action now as well. It's under ultimate magic FAQs I think.

Sigh...that was my understanding of how it worked but the GM was dead set that I was wrong. He said he had a couple of high level magus characters and got the venture captain present to agree with him. I choose not to make a big deal about because my party was fairly wrecking everything we fought but, I think next time I see him I will have to set him straight. Thanks everyone.

Direct him to this thread with the others. He is wrong. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to GM for PFS. If the VC doesn't like it, he can by all means resign.

More likely though they just misunderstand the rules (a VC shouldn't but.....) and just need correcting.