Mine is the name. I struggle to take them seriously.
** spoiler omitted **
Unlike Father Skinsaw's name, though, the word psychopomp is taken from Real Life mythology where it refers to guides of souls, be they deities, angels, or whichever creature any given mythology or religion uses for its soul guides.
On its own I agree the word psychopomp is a bit odd. But with the context it has, being tied to many Real World religions and mythologies, it's a very good fit, I think.
As for outsiders in general, I'm hoping to see some angels, azatas, psychopomps, inevitables, and kytons. I do fear, however, that outsiders won't be that heavily represented in the book, since that was kind of the theme for Bestiary 2 if I remember correctly. With Wrath of the Righteous and its support material coming out, I'll get my demon fix through those books, so I can live without demons in Bestiary 4. :)
Creatures I would like to see from APs and other books make into this bestiary are...
Vouvre
Drekavac
Peluda
Calathgar
Ankou
Dweomer Cat
Shirk Nettle
Zomok
Flaming Skull
Medusa Head
Colour out of Space
Elder Thing
Mi-Go
Wax Golem
Gare Linnorm
Kijimuna
Raiju
Gashadokuro
Jimmenju
Rokurokubi
Addu
Faceless Whale
Gargiya
Lorelei
Seaweed Siren
Tidepool Dragon
Sea Cat
Coral Capuchin
Kapre
Bakekujira
Clockwork Familiar
Polevik
Bhole
Flying Polyp
Mezlan
Coral Golem
Chick Charney
Lusca
Fey Animal(template)
Huldra
Mountain Troll
Werebat
Wereshark
Werecroc
...and also all remaining Oni and Kami from the Jade Empire AP.
Mine is the name. I struggle to take them seriously.
** spoiler omitted **Unlike Father Skinsaw's name, though, the word psychopomp is taken from Real Life mythology where it refers to guides of souls, be they deities, angels, or whichever creature any given mythology or religion uses for its soul guides.
On its own I agree the word psychopomp is a bit odd. But with the context it has, being tied to many Real World religions and mythologies, it's a very good fit, I think.
If it has a real world derivation then it certainly fits with paizo's general approach. Being ignorant of that, it just sounds like some kind of "new circus" clown name to me. :/
There are very few misses when it comes to pathfinder names though (and some of them grow on me over time).
My problem with Psychopomps is that to me, they are the "We hate undead!" outsiders.Mine is the name. I struggle to take them seriously.
** spoiler omitted **
EDIT: Aw man, totally ninja'd by Heine Stick. That's what I get for taking so long to actually write up a response.
I can kind of see why you might find the name amusing, though I don't have a problem with it myself. In the context of their role within the game, it makes perfect sense. It's derived from a Greek word meaning "Guides of the Soul", and they pop up in the myths and religions of many different cultures. For a few examples:
- Greek: Charon the Ferryman
- Celtic: The Morrigan and Manannán mac Lir (both members of the Tuatha Dé Danann). The Dullahan can also be seen as a form of Psychopomp, though as a member of the unseelie fae it is a far more malevolent creature.
- Norse: The Valkyries (like the Morrigan, often referred to as Choosers of the Slain)
- Welsh: Gwyn ap Nudd, the king of the Tylweth Teg (later on also known as the leader of the Wild Hunt)
There are plenty of others, but those are the ones I'm most familiar with due to where my interests lie. But even various angels Christianity, Judaism and Islam could be considered psychopomps within their own right (off the top of my head, the Archangel Michael, Azrael and Samael should be an example from each respectively).
Mostly my interest and love of the psychopomps as a concept actually comes from comics. The Crow has long been one of my favourite comics, and my all time favourite film. Since I first read/saw it as a teen, I've loved it, and have always jumped on anything that gives me a chance to expand on knowledge and ideas for them.
Sorry, I kind of got off topic a bit there (this is what happens when I get started on something that holds so much interest for me)... The TL;DR version of it is that I personally feel that the name fits perfectly, and it doesn't bother me, but that I can see the other side of it.
Well Valkyries and Dullahan won't be Psychopomps in Pathfinder.
Kere's are tho.
Dragon78 don't you care for Selkies? Suprising!
Well Valkyries and Dullahan won't be Psychopomps in Pathfinder.
I can understand dullahans not being part of the psychopomp group of outsiders as their shtick in Pathfinder RPG is somewhat different than that of the Pathfinder RPG psychopomps. They're bogeymen, undead avengers. Valkyries seem like a better fit, but that's not going to happen, it seems.
It's impossible as the Valkyrie was in Bestiary 3 without the Psychopomp subtype.
I hope all mythological creatures (from real myths and legends) used in adventure path bestiaries make it into this book. So Selkies, Polevik, Fachen, Rokurokubi, Bakekujira and all those others.
The only 2 creatures from real legends I hope they change (is it artwork or fluff) are the Vouivre and Ankou, I even hope the Vouivre is re-named into Kampe/Campe or Drakaina (which means she-dragon)
I don't really like the strange design of the Ankou, so I hope they turn it into a reaper-like creature on a chariot.
Just so you know, the word psychopomp derives from the Ancient Greek word psychopompós (ψυχοπομπός), which is a composite of the words psyche (ψυχή), meaning "soul", and pompos (πομπός), meaning "guide". So, a psychopomp is a "guide of/for the soul". So it sounds definitely less silly if you have some background in classical langiages. :)
Why does Norgorber sound silly?
The only creatures that really sound silly for me (because i'm dutch) are Grootslang and OMA.
Grootslang is (strange) dutch for great serpent and Oma = Grandmother in my language.
So a giant space whale having the same name as a dutch grandmother is a bit odd and definiatly makes me like the creature less.
Why does Norgorber sound silly?
Mostly because someone (at my table) inevitably mispronounces his name as "Norburger".
No one takes the murder cult seriously anymore.
There are others like the Selkie that I would add to the list but I didn't want to put to much in there. I am sure a good number of those made it in the bestiary but I would be surprised if they all did.
I like the names of the Vouvre and Ankou and the fluff for them as well. But I don't care much for the art of Vouvre(though I still like the idea of a monster with an actractive woman as a tail/lure) but I do like the art for the Ankou.
They should keep the concept of the Vouivre, but the art for it was just weird looking, they should draw it while flying, having a wyvern like body with the tail ending in the upperbody of a pretty woman, a french name with a chinese woman in the art is also a weird combination, but again a flying artwork of it would be cool.
Grootslang is (strange) dutch for great serpent [...]
The Grootslang is an actual myth from South Africa, that's why the name is in Dutch, or rather Afrikaans. Here's more on the subject.
Just so you know, the word psychopomp derives from the Ancient Greek word psychopompós (ψυχοπομπός), which is a composite of the words psyche (ψυχή), meaning "soul", and pompos (πομπός), meaning "guide". So, a psychopomp is a "guide of/for the soul". So it sounds definitely less silly if you have some background in classical langiages. :)
Why does Norgorber sound silly?
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Why does Norgorber sound silly?Mostly because someone (at my table) inevitably mispronounces his name as "Norburger".
No one takes the murder cult seriously anymore.
Yeah, I changed the name of Norgorber too because we pretty much snicker and call him Norgoober or Norbooger or Norborger of the Decepticons or my favorite, Norborkborkbork!
I like the name "Norborkborkbork" for Norgorber. I like Rovagug just fine the way it is though.
Rovagug is a really badass name. I definitely dig it.
I would like to see a Dire or Magical Platypus in here, the normal Platypus is in the animal book already.
A regular and giant version of the Platypus would be nice.
Rovagug is one bad mother fuu.. shut your mouth..I am just talking about Rovagug.
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I'm really interested in the Lovecraftian monsters in this book. My curiosity is how strict they're being with the mythology. Beings such as Cthulhu are powerful, but can be slowed down. Cthulhu is the most famous creaturein the Mythos, but he is far from "invincible". He's a reasonable CR 30, especially considering he was put back to sleep with a boat to the face. Other famous creatures of similar power I'd love to see include Ghatanothoa, Atlach-Nacha, and Hastur.
My question is, will this book consider the beings for whom Cthulhu is often considered nothing more than a high priest? I'm not sure CR 30 would cut it for some of my favorites, such as Nyarlethotep, Yog-Sothoth, or Shub-Niggruth. I mean, if anyone's stat block should read: "You Lose", it's Azathoth. ;)
Those three - four if you include Azathoth - I believe are full deities in Golarion/Pathfinder, and thus will not receive stats.
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Cthulhu is the most famous creaturein the Mythos, but he is far from "invincible". He's a reasonable CR 30, especially considering he was put back to sleep with a boat to the face.
Actually, if you re-read the story, the boat to the face did NOT put him to sleep. Upon being hit by the boat, he took gaseous form, and then then Johhansen pushed the boat to it's max, running away as Cthulhu reformed.
Cthulhu returned to R'lyeh and his deathless sleep because the stars were only right for a very short time on that occassion.
Creative Director
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Actually, if you re-read the story, the boat to the face did NOT put him to sleep. Upon being hit by the boat, he took gaseous form, and then then Johhansen pushed the boat to it's max, running away as Cthulhu reformed.
And those who recall that scene in the story will no doubt understand why one of Cthulhu's defensive abilities works the way it does when his stats are finally in print for Pathfinder.
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Tsathoggua anyone? I want my fuzzy toad Great Old one and Ubo-Satthla, Yig, Bokrug, Lloigor, the Venerians from "in the walls of Eryx" The first two are creations of Aztlani Priest Klarkash Ton. I also wouldn't mind seeing templates for Marsh, Martense, and Whatley linneages (Deep ones at two removes, Inbred Dutch Gibberlings, and Children of Yog-Sothoth).
I wonder what Old Ones, other then Cthulhu, will have stats in this bestiary?
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Actually, if you re-read the story, the boat to the face did NOT put him to sleep. Upon being hit by the boat, he took gaseous form, and then then Johhansen pushed the boat to it's max, running away as Cthulhu reformed.And those who recall that scene in the story will no doubt understand why one of Cthulhu's defensive abilities works the way it does when his stats are finally in print for Pathfinder.
So can we one-shot him with a boat? :D
So can we one-shot him with a boat? :DActually, if you re-read the story, the boat to the face did NOT put him to sleep. Upon being hit by the boat, he took gaseous form, and then then Johhansen pushed the boat to it's max, running away as Cthulhu reformed.And those who recall that scene in the story will no doubt understand why one of Cthulhu's defensive abilities works the way it does when his stats are finally in print for Pathfinder.
I'd say yes.
Maybe you guys should create a new topic about Cthulhu & Co, as almost this entire topic is about them already ;-)
There is no need for another bestiary, just a lovecraft tome of terrors would do I believe, as most other monsters (other than big asian creatures) aren't getting any love anyways.
Maybe you guys should create a new topic about Cthulhu & Co, as almost this entire topic is about them already ;-)
There is no need for another bestiary, just a lovecraft tome of terrors would do I believe, as most other monsters (other than big asian creatures) aren't getting any love anyways.
The excitement about Cthulhu makes a ton of sense. The Cthulhu Mythos is extremely popular around these parts ("these parts" being the Paizo community). That said, all we have to go by at the moment is the product description and in that blurb, Cthulhu and the kaiju are THE major players.
I have no doubt that, once we get closer to release date and previews and teasers start rolling out, the discussion will become much more nuanced.
Until then, we're just having some fun discussion about the big reveal of the book. :)
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Ah, Sincy, but at least having most of the topic about Cthulhu & Co. is a break from having most of the topic about what you like/don't like ;-)
This. This getting repeated over and over was why I ended up hiding the Bestiary Wishlist threads. Doubly so with frequent renditions of "I don't like how this monster was portrayed/changed/misinterpreted, I am going to sit here and complain about it and demand it be changed".
So I'm slowly being won over by Giffs. I seriously think we need them, but given the Pathfinder treatment. Like, maybe planar mercs that visit other dimensions and bring their technology (robots, lasers, things like that) to use against weaker foes that they wanna pirate.
Giff are quite probably the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast and thus off-limits for Paizo.
My problem with Psychopomps is that to me, they are the "We hate undead!" outsiders.Mine is the name. I struggle to take them seriously.
** spoiler omitted **
Agreed.
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Well maybe we will get some robots and aliens as well.
lol it's all good, no loss :)
As a big booster of the Giff (singular and plural), I'm a little bummed that they are WotC IP and thus will not be officially in Pathfinder. But they are silly? Sorry, but Gnomes, Flumphs, Froghemoths, and Goblins being in the game cancel the silly argument (and I like all of them, particularly goblins).
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No quite probably about it. Giffs are 100% owned by Wizards of the Coast. Which is nice for me, since I don't have to play the "I think giffs are silly and have no interest in updating them for Pathfinder" card.
Giff are only silly if you've never seen what a hippo can do to a person. However that is neither here nor there.
From a comment James Jacob made in this thread, are there any reasons why Valkyries are not psychopomps?
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Creative Director
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No quite probably about it. Giffs are 100% owned by Wizards of the Coast. Which is nice for me, since I don't have to play the "I think giffs are silly and have no interest in updating them for Pathfinder" card.Giff are only silly if you've never seen what a hippo can do to a person. However that is neither here nor there.
Has nothing to do with it. I know a hippo is a devastating creature.
The silly part is that they dress like naval officers and wear medals and think they're people. That's more or less the exact opposite of what makes a hippo scary.
Now... if giffs were portrayed more like trolls or savage feral giants than they were tea-drinking ex-naval officers who argue over monocle sizes while wearing top hats and wielding snifters and canes... maybe I'd like them more.
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From a comment James Jacob made in this thread, are there any reasons why Valkyries are not psychopomps?
They're a different alignment for one thing. And they're iconic enough that they're more interesting on their own, for another. They're so iconic, in fact, that if we said, "Valkyries are psychopomps," that would run the danger of overwhelming the psychopomp themes.
Just as you can have multiple outsiders fill the role of "soul eater" (we've got lots of daemons doing that, but also some devils and demons, and also things like the actual soul eater), you can have multiple outsiders who fill the role of "spirit escorter."
The silly part is that they dress like naval officers and wear medals and think they're people.
...
and think they're people.
...what.
Mr. Jacobs.
That is not a good thing to say. Not even about fictional people.
He's an Ennie-winning T-Rex. Who's to stop him? Or am I getting him mixed up with Tom Rex?
What is wrong with a race of creatures who dress like big game hunters from the late 1800 to early 1900's. Besides the tea drinking stuff adds some class to them as well. You know having a non-human race that are big game hunters similar to the British of that time period would be different.
"Hunter Joe strikes again"
Can I hope in a swan familiar/animal companion?
And a omni-polymorphing angel?
I wouldn't mind seeing a Swanmay. A swan would make a good familiar but you would need a giant swan for the animal companion.
Omni-polymorphing angel, I remember something like that in 2nd edition.