I already intend to use spoiler tags but more then likely someone else will post it before I get my PDF.
Here is a strange question for you all, if I(or someone else) get this item's PDF early and list the monsters in the book on the site. Would you want them listed by CR, alphabetical order, or by creature type?I just want them to put them on spoiler, cuz I don't want to spoil the entire list that early for myself, its more awesome to be suprised with every page you turn, I spoiled Bestiary 3 for myself, while I didn't know much about mythology and folkore creatures then (I didn't knew about Adaro, Baykok and others for example) now I know most creatures so the spoiler niveau would be much higher.
So please if that time comes, put them in the [/spoiler ]
Agreed...although it's way way way to early to worry how to list the monsters
Here is a strange question for you all, if I(or someone else) get this item's PDF early and list the monsters in the book on the site. Would you want them listed by CR, alphabetical order, or by creature type?
CR, though alphabetical is fine.
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I'm getting antsy with the waiting. I hope there will be more animals/vermin.
Maybe a MAYOR SPOILER so if you don't want to be maybe-spoiled don't click the image.
I've found this image on Deviantart and it says that its for pathfinder, and i've never seen this image anywhere else, would this be a Kaiju image for bestiary 4? Or was this maybe cut-material for bestiary 3?
I do hope its not real cuz we already have 2 cthulhu creatures in the book, this creature looks a little bit like Cthulhu as well so that would make number 3, I hope its cut art for bestiary 3, but who knows...
I hope not, I like Cthulhu, I like the star spawn, but I wouldn't want a third creature to look like Cthulhu in the Bestiary 4. Though if it is legit then I would say maybe it was a cut example from the Bestiary 3.
I am sure we will get more animals and vermin, every bestiary has had creatures of every creature type and many subtypes.
No quite probably about it. Giffs are 100% owned by Wizards of the Coast. Which is nice for me, since I don't have to play the "I think giffs are silly and have no interest in updating them for Pathfinder" card.
I'm happy about this, considering giffs look like they fell out of an episode of Tail Spin.
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Maybe a MAYOR SPOILER so if you don't want to be maybe-spoiled don't click the image.
I've found this image on Deviantart and it says that its for pathfinder, and i've never seen this image anywhere else, would this be a Kaiju image for bestiary 4? Or was this maybe cut-material for bestiary 3?
I do hope its not real cuz we already have 2 cthulhu creatures in the book, this creature looks a little bit like Cthulhu as well so that would make number 3, I hope its cut art for bestiary 3, but who knows...
I seem to remember it being said somewhere that it was origonally intended for the Kaiju entry for besitiary 3 before they decided to drop it.
Yes but cut material from bestiary 3 could end up in bestiary 4
And sinse the theme from this bestiary seem to be Cthulhu, this has a pretty big chance of appearing in bestiary 4.
No quite probably about it. Giffs are 100% owned by Wizards of the Coast. Which is nice for me, since I don't have to play the "I think giffs are silly and have no interest in updating them for Pathfinder" card.I'm happy about this, considering giffs look like they fell out of an episode of Tail Spin.
Yes the world is pretty fortunate with the Giffs being protected by copyright, I do not like copyright, but sometimes copyright isn't the villian but the hero.
I think I heard someone say on this forum that the old Kaiju art there would not appear in Bestiary 4 as any critter, for the very reason Dragon78 said, that it would be a bit too much squid people to have this, and Starspawn, and Cthulhu in one book.
No quite probably about it. Giffs are 100% owned by Wizards of the Coast. Which is nice for me, since I don't have to play the "I think giffs are silly and have no interest in updating them for Pathfinder" card.I'm happy about this, considering giffs look like they fell out of an episode of Tail Spin.
Btw, I think THIS from Afred J Kwak is the inspiration behind the Giff. :-p
Anyway, i'm so curious if there are any Assassin Bugs in there, one of the last insects (with earwigs and isopods) that didn't get their own page in a bestiary yet, or that the vermin-parts are yet again covered by the Spider and Scorpion...
I think a trapdoor and net-casting giant variety of spiders would be welcome, but there are more than enough scorpions if you ask me, and scorpions aren't that much of a variety and different from eachother as spiders are, so I hope to see more Mantis, more Wasps, More Dragonflies, more Beetles, more Snails, more Moths and Butterflies and the new Assassin Bug, Earwig and Isopod or Millipede. And of course some sea-vermin like starfish, urchin, tubeworms and sea scorpions (which are very different from normal scorpions)
If there would be giant scorpions in here, I hope they are the magical variants, same with Centipedes and crabs.
As far as giant vermin go, I would like more types of centipedes, sea anemones, jellyfish. I would also really like some giant starfish as a category of different types.
I would like to see some new types of giant, magical, and/or monstrous frogs and toads, especially a fire toad(small size toad that spits fireballs).
I hope we get some new types of Lamia.
As far as toads go I would like to see the Surinam Toad with the youngsters on its back, but they should be magical or piranha-like young cuz the real young aren't dangerous so just a giant Surinam Toad version would do nothing.
Speaking of new Giants (well, giant-like in this case), I would love to see a Mythic Hekatonkheires as a new Titan entry. Their entry in Bestiary 3 mentions the trio of original Hekatonkheires that spawned all of the "lesser" variety. I think they would be a perfect entry for a Mythic creature in the CR 26+ range.
Also, would be neat to see the other Behemoths hinted at and mentioned in the Behemoth entry from Bestiary 3 (not sure if they'd be Mythic, either way probably in the CR 23-25 range): the Sirocco, Leviathan, and Holocaust Behemoths.
yeah I would like to see more behemoths, although I think James Jacob has mentioned wanting to keep them at the upper end of "non-mythic" like the Tarrasque.
Creative Director
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Maybe a MAYOR SPOILER so if you don't want to be maybe-spoiled don't click the image.
I've found this image on Deviantart and it says that its for pathfinder, and i've never seen this image anywhere else, would this be a Kaiju image for bestiary 4? Or was this maybe cut-material for bestiary 3?
I do hope its not real cuz we already have 2 cthulhu creatures in the book, this creature looks a little bit like Cthulhu as well so that would make number 3, I hope its cut art for bestiary 3, but who knows...
Yeah; that art was originally intended for Bestiary 3's kaiju template. It's cool art... but it's also kinda not usable for a monster that's a template, since... what the hell is the base creature? Furthermore, it's definitely too Cthulhu. I don't want to mix my kaiju with my Lovecraft.
In any event, the kaiju template ended up getting cut so we didn't have to decide what to do with the art. It just never got used. It's not gonna be in Bestiary 4 either.
In my opinion there are enough big creatures in bestiary 4 already in the form of gods, demonlords, kaiju, juggernouts and old ones.
I hope the Behemoths skip a part until bestiary 5.
And thanks James Jacobs for clearing that out! And the art is awesome, like all the guys art for pathfinder! Many of his work did make it in pathfinder products anyway. :-)
I wouldn't mind seeing at least one behemoth in this book myself.
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While I am looking forward to the book, am I the only one who thinks Cthulhu should NOT be stated? I mean, he's basically like the Gods, You just can't stat the dude. It goes against everything that makes him so powerful and frightening. Even when d20 made stats for Cthulhu, it basically said you just can't beat him.
Cthulhu isn't a God, he's a priest of the Outer Gods.
I wouldn't flare up any hopes for more Proteans and Aeons - IIRC Todd Stewart said that the number of Protean variants is deliberately finite and limited to 3(4), while James did state that they are kind of moving away from Aeons and towards Psychopomps.
The three major castes presented originally are based very loosely on the serpents of the ogdoad of hermopolis. However I have many many ideas for more types of proteans, likely operating differently than those three which operate almost like Chaos's immune system.
Id love the chance to make more proteans. :)
While I am looking forward to the book, am I the only one who thinks Cthulhu should NOT be stated? I mean, he's basically like the Gods, You just can't stat the dude. It goes against everything that makes him so powerful and frightening. Even when d20 made stats for Cthulhu, it basically said you just can't beat him.Cthulhu isn't a God, he's a priest of the Outer Gods.
Since the dawn of RPGs, deities and demigods have been given stats for the very reason that someday some uppity adventurers would come along and slay them. Now, with CoC D20 it can be argued that in that game the whole premise is that the PCs are mundane people who encounter horrifying, sanity destroying monsters and their by definition doomed. In D&D, the only scary monsters are the ones that break your PC's toys. :-)
I want stats for Cthulhu(and any other old ones that made it in) but I could do without any demon lords.
I would love to see more Proteans though we might have to wait for the next bestiary for them.
I like that Cthulhu is being statted instead of them copping out and claiming it can't be done.
I never understood why some people are so adamant about never wanting PCs to fight gods in a table top game of pretend. I think it should be more of a GM thing rather than them being statted out in a pathfinder book, but it would be interesting to see for me, regardless
Old Ones however are considered in Pathfinder to be on the same power level as Demon Lords and other Demigods, and not as powerful as full deities like Asmodeus or Pharasma
I hope we get some TANE !
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While I am looking forward to the book, am I the only one who thinks Cthulhu should NOT be stated? I mean, he's basically like the Gods, You just can't stat the dude. It goes against everything that makes him so powerful and frightening. Even when d20 made stats for Cthulhu, it basically said you just can't beat him.Cthulhu isn't a God, he's a priest of the Outer Gods.
I somewhat blame August Derleth, and I think it was he who coined the phrase Cthulhu Mythos. Which gives undue prominence to a guy who's nowhere near being the most powerful entity in the Mythos.
That's why I prefer to refer to it as the Lovecraft Mythos (or more generally, just as the Mythos).
Yes some new Tane would be nice.
I can understand not having deities stated up but demi-gods are a different story.
By that logic, then why hasn't anyone made stats for any of the gods? There's just some fights where you gotta say: You lose, no matter what you do or what tricks you try. It's basically the equivalent of back in ADnD of the idea to try to stat the Lady of Pain, even though she wasn't technically a goddess.
Since the dawn of RPGs, deities and demigods have been given stats for the very reason that someday some uppity adventurers would come along and slay them. Now, with CoC D20 it can be argued that in that game the whole premise is that the PCs are mundane people who encounter horrifying, sanity destroying monsters and their by definition doomed. In D&D, the only scary monsters are the ones that break your PC's toys. :-)
For the same reason that we haven't seen CR26-30 creatures until now that Mythic is out. Paizo has not considered the current rules sufficient to properly describe the abilities, etc., of such creatures. In the discussions of "when will Paizo do Epic rules for Pathfinder", that was mentioned several times as the limiting factor for the big Demon Lords and Arch Devils. Deities were considered even to be beyond that; a set of rules to maybe do *after* the ones that covered demigods, Demon Lords, Arch Devils, and Empyreal Lords. I am not sure how the Mythic rules will change that dynamic, but I think that's a big part of why you don't see stats for true deities yet.
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I hope we get a lot more Fey, Oozes, Elementals, and Plants in this one. Those are the creature types/subtypes we are lacking in the most, particularly Elementals and Oozes.
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Just creatures from real folklore and mythology would make me happy already, and I really hope to find creatures in there that control gravity, time, magnetizm and some coming-from-mirrors power.
Beat the crap out of Metalmaster and Lodestone Marauder and create the best sense making magnetizm monster ever, but don't make it humanoid, a wild magical beast that only controlls some degrees of magnetizm is much better than a Jean Grey monster that has 10.000 different abilities and one of them is magnetizm, that's why I don't count the Plasma Ooze as magnetic monster as it just has too much abilities.
While I am looking forward to the book, am I the only one who thinks Cthulhu should NOT be stated? I mean, he's basically like the Gods, You just can't stat the dude. It goes against everything that makes him so powerful and frightening. Even when d20 made stats for Cthulhu, it basically said you just can't beat him.Cthulhu isn't a God, he's a priest of the Outer Gods.I somewhat blame August Derleth, and I think it was he who coined the phrase Cthulhu Mythos. Which gives undue prominence to a guy who's nowhere near being the most powerful entity in the Mythos.
That's why I prefer to refer to it as the Lovecraft Mythos (or more generally, just as the Mythos).
Lovecraft himself referred to "Yog-Sothery" I believe. You are absolutely right that we have Derleth to thank for the term.
Here's hoping we finally see the Ethereal Marauder!
The Call of Cthulhu is even one of the least relevant stories in the larger scheme of things. Shadows over Innsmouth is the actual "iconic" story, and that one is about Dagon.
I don't know, I kind of hope to see an end to monsters whose names are just an adjective and a noun explaining what they do. Like Ethereal Marauder, or Invisible Stalker. They are cool monsters, but I'd love for them to have better, more original names.
Though knowing their "native" names always indicates that you know what they are and that people made extensive contact with their society. If it's a real alien monster, you just call it "that thingy with the thingy".
Lots of strange animals and mythological creatures do actually have names like that. A Rhinoceros is just a "nose horn"; the Minotaur is "the bull of Minos". And since I started learning Japanese, I noticed that almost all Japanese monsters just have descriptiv names as well. A Ningyo is nothing but a "people fish", a Yuki-Onna a "snow woman", and a koropokguru an "under leaves living person".
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I sure hope the finalized bestiary 4 list wasn't ready before Epic Meepo posted this AWESOME post in the bestiary 4 wishlist topic!
A BUNCH OF AWESOME MONSTERSPlease Wesley Tell me they are all in ;-)
This was by far my favorite post in all the bestiary 4 wishtopic!
Good news! Several are by name, several more are by concept.
Maybe a MAYOR SPOILER so if you don't want to be maybe-spoiled don't click the image.
Kaiju-Pathfinder-Deviantart
HA! So here's maybe a not so secret secret. We don't have tons of it, but we have probably somewhere in the dozens now of pieces of art that we've killed for one reason or another. Sometimes its like this, and despite being cool and being from an awesome artist like Dave Allsop, it just doesn't end up working for what we need it for. Sometimes an art order is just misconceived or doesn't turn out at all as anticipated. Sometimes the text that art was ordered for gets cut, stranding its art in limbo. And occasionally a piece is just BAD and needs to be hidden.
In the first three cases, we secret the piece away, holding onto it until a time that it might make sense to use it. In other cases, a piece might just go there to live forever with the other misfits.
This, and a few other pieces that are available as message board avatars, are from the limbo file. We don't have any concrete plans for anything in there (and I'm not going to potentially insult any artists further by listing off what's in there), but sometimes something escapes.
I don't know, I kind of hope to see an end to monsters whose names are just an adjective and a noun explaining what they do. Like Ethereal Marauder, or Invisible Stalker. They are cool monsters, but I'd love for them to have better, more original names.
At that point you're kind of getting into REDO territory.
Since we can't use the exact copyrighted WotC look for a creature like an ethereal marauder, and the name is bleck, we'd have to give it a different look and would want to change the name. Sooooo...
That being said. Since you seem to like elusive inhabitants of the ethereal plane, you should be pleased. ;)
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imokaywiththis.jpeg :D
I am still hoping that Mudmen, Ravid, Arrowhawk(different name would be okay) would make it in. Though it looks like Eye of the Deep will never be (re)printed in Pathfinder, I would still like to see it.
Any chance I'll get to know more about those Outer Dragons in the near future?
We have a while to go before this one gets released. I wish I could see into the future and least see the list of monsters for this one. Though if I could and reveal that list then it could change the future and maybe alter what monsters made it in.
Good news! Several are by name, several more are by concept.I sure hope the finalized bestiary 4 list wasn't ready before Epic Meepo posted this AWESOME post in the bestiary 4 wishlist topic!
A BUNCH OF AWESOME MONSTERSPlease Wesley Tell me they are all in ;-)
This was by far my favorite post in all the bestiary 4 wishtopic!
That is AWESOME to hear! Can't wait to find out which ones are in already! I'm pretty sure now Cherufe will be one of them! :-D
*happy*
Here is a listing of how many creatures of a type or subtype was used in the first three bestiaries. Though the count may be off on some and some creatures will have multiple subtypes.
Type
Aberrations- B1)18 B2)18 B3)13 = 49
Animals- B1)71 B2)27 B3)32 = 130
Constructs- B1)10 B2)9 B3)15 = 34
Dragons- B1)17 B2)10 B3)16 = 43
Fey- B1)5 B2)13 B3)11 = 29
Humanoid- B1)30 B2)19 B3)13 = 62
Magical Beast- B1)29 B2)29 B3)35 = 93
Monstrous Humanoids- B1)13 B2)6 B3)21 = 40
Oozes- B1)5 B2)6 B3)7 = 18
Outsiders- B1)71 B2)87 B3)60 = 218
Plants- B1)8 B2)10 B3)10 = 28
Undead- B1)15 B2)17 B3)22 = 55
Vermin- B1)18 B2)26 B3)14 = 58
Subtype
Air- B1)7 B2)7 B3)3 = 17
Earth- B1)8 B2)8 B3)7 = 23
Fire- B1)5 B2)8 B3)3 = 16
Water- B1)6 B2)5 B3)5 = 16
Cold- B1)8 B2)7 B3)5 = 20
Good- B1)9 B2)15 B3)9 = 33
Evil- B1)35 B2)37 B3)39 = 111
Law- B1)17 B2)16 B3)22 = 55
Chaos- B1)14 B2)24 B3)13 = 51
Giants- B1)11 B2)9 B3)11 = 31
Elementals- B1)5 B2)7 B3)1 = 13
Incorporeal- B1)5 B2)5 B3)4 = 14
Swarms- B1)7 B2)6 B3)4 = 17
Templates- B1)10 B2)6 B3)6 = 22
Aquatic- B1)21 B2)23 B3)32 = 71
Shapechangers- B1)9 B2)10 B3)21 = 41
templates and such creatures rather spoil those numbers as they are so chaotic and can have 10.000 variants, making such listings incorrect.