Amazing Races: Kitsune! (PFRPG) PDF

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The Amazing Races PDFs introduce new archetypes, feats, character traits, racial traits, and archetypes for the core, featured, and uncommon races described in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Race Guide. Every PDF contains two full pages of high quality content (no fluff or filler)!

Amazing Races: Kitsune! includes new racial feats, kitsune character traits, and alternate racial traits for kitsune. In addition, this product features a new archetype for kitsune oracles: the White-Furred Oracle!

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An Endzeitgeist.com review of the revised edition

4/5

This installment of the Amazing Races-series is 4 pages long, 1 page front cover, 1 page SRD, leaving us with 2 pages of content, so let's check out these options for the Kitsune!

We kick off with two new feats for the Kitsune:

-Kitsune Chakra: Via the expenditure of spell-level ki, you may use racially granted/magical tail-feat granted spell-like ability without expending it. Powerful one - and without the racially exclusive component, I'd start complaining right now. Since it's restricted to Kitsune, I won't complain here.

-Shapechanger's Reveal: This one allows you to revert to your true form by foregoing the first attack of your full attack and make bluff AND intimidate check versus every opponent within 30 ft. for a combined feint/demoralization-effect. Those aware of the Kitsune's shapechanging capability get +4 to sense motive/have their intimidate DC increased by +4. A powerful ability - and one I can only see work on a given foe once in every 24 hours. Apart from that caveat missing (introducing it for perhaps +30 ft range?), this feat's limit make it workable, if not superb.

We also get two new traits - one that nets you +2 to bluff to deceive humans and nets you bluff as a class skill. The second trait is useful when hiding in a crowd via stealth, you may make a sense motive check versus DC 10 to count as if the aid another action was executed by the crowd to aid you.

We also get 4 new alternate racial traits - Blazing traits allows you to replace magical talent with produce flames as a spell-like ability HD+cha-mod times. Alternatively, Kitsune may replace agile with +1 to Bluff and Intimidate as well as always learning +1 language per linguistics rank. The latter is imho bad - languages should not be that easy to acquire. Graceful Attacks nets you weapon finesse in exchange for natural weapons.

Finally, Kitsune may replace Kitsune magic with a ki pool of 1 point + 1 for every 4 level the Kitsune has. The Kitsune may spend ki to get DR 5/cold iron until the end of the turn. I wouldn't harp on this, but since the pool stacks with ki pools from other sources, it becomes an issue: The Kitsune may use cha instead of wis to determine ki AND there's another issue the pdf fails to specify: The ki pool gained via this racial trait can usually be used exclusively for the DR-granting purposes - so far, so good. None of the regular uses are possible - but what about Ki-based feats that require the expenditure of ki? I assume they can be taken, but I'm not sure. All in all, gaining a powerful (especially at lower levels) ability that far surpasses Kitsune magic in power makes for a problematic piece of content and one I wouldn't allow in my home game.

The pdf also provides us with a racial archetype, the White-Furred Oracle (WFO in this review). These Oracles later their bonus spells from their mysteries with an expanded selection of spells representing the Nine Mysteries. An interesting and mythologically sound decision is to replace the oracle's star gem -when not HOLDING this gem, these Kitsune must make concentration checks to properly cast the respective spells, spell-like abilities or supernatural abilities - with the latter getting information for the DC of their concentration-check. And now, in the revised edition, the star gem gets proper stats and makes for perhaps one of the coolest restrictive balancing-mechanisms I've seen in quite a while.

The oracle also gets 1/2 level + cha-mod ki points. Said points stack with other ki pools, but only apply attribute modifiers once. As long as there's one ki point remaining, concentration checks are 5 (!!!) easier for the oracle and additionally, ki can be used to increase the DC of spells by +1, increase speed by +20 feet for a round. They may also spend ki to cast mystery spells by expending spell level ki without expending said spell. This ability, in the pdf's first iteration victim of an unpleasantly worded sentence now has been rephrased - two thumbs up!

At 5th level, WFO may take rogue talents or ninja tricks that require a ki pool or any combat feat that requires ki in lieu of a revelation. The archetype gets a native outsider capstone.

Conclusion:

Editing and formatting are top.-notch, I didn't notice any glitches. Layout adheres to Abandoned Art's two-column no-frills standard and the pdf has no bookmarks, but needs none at this length.

Author Alexander Augunas (of Pact Magic Unbound-fame) is a big fan of Kitsune - and it shows. For the better in the fact that the crunch is tied to mythologies and offers iconic options. The options contained herein while on the upper segment of the power-scale, now come with appropriately flavored information and streamlined options that got rid of prior ambiguities. The flavor is superb, as are the ideas of the crunch, but the price the archetype (or alternate racial traits) extol is not always perfectly on par with the benefits they grant. The revised version is superior in every way - and thus gets 4.5 stars, rounded down to 4 for the purpose of this platform.

Endzeitgeist out.


Unique and very thematic character options for kitsunes

5/5

The Kitsune, like many of the other 'Uncommon' races from Paizo’s Advanced Race Guide, have a fairly limited number of character options. Because of this, this pdf gives this under supported race a much needed influx of well designed Feats, Character Traits, Racial Traits and an archetype.

These character options are generally well designed and well balanced. Honestly, most of the negative things I have to say about the contents of this pdf are just nitpicking rather than real problems.

Here are my thoughts on the contents of this pdf
Feat-Kitsune Chakra: This feat lets the kitsune power some of his spell like abilities with ki points. I like the idea of this feat, but the thing that I don’t like about this one is that a kitsune who actually spends feats on Magical Tail probably won’t have many spare feats left to pick up this one.

Feat-Shapechanger’s Reveal: It has heavy prereqs, but the ability to surprise your opponents with your shapeshifting is a very thematic ability. I like this one.

Character Trait-Insider Psychology: Unlike most bluff traits, this one is focused on the race that Kitsune are constantly hiding among: humans! Nice touch.

Character Trait-Ordinary Forms: This trait seems a bit odd to me. It gives a minor bonus to hiding in crowds, but somehow applies to both of your forms? This may be the weakest option in the book.

Racial Trait-Blazing Spirit: Very well thought out and very thematic. This gives kitsune a limited use fire attack that can be used a significant number of times per day and works for both melee or ranged. It has a small amount of scaling, and will be very handy for kitsune characters at low levels when they can’t use their primary attack.

Racial Trait-Gift of Tongues: Extra languages! Great trait for kitsune who want to be be better infiltrators.
Racial Trait-Graceful Attacks: This is a very nice option for a dex based melee kitsune who isn’t interested in using his bite attack. Plus, it saves the character a feat, and kitsunes are always feat starved.

Racial Trait-Ki Pool: Ki is a theme in this book, and I guess it makes sense considering kitsune are asian themed. Stacks with ki pools from other classes and even lets monks use Cha for their ki pool... this ability is almost too good. However, considering neither monks nor ninjas are exactly top top tier, I can’t hold that against the designer. A very nice ability.

And finally: The White Furred Oracle archetype.
I would have expected a sorcerer bloodline or archetype, so this was a welcome surprise. It is also very thematic considering that white furred kitsune often become oracles in Pathfinder. I really like this archetype, though my inner game designer cringes at the way this archetype doesn’t follow many of the standards for Oracles and Oracle Archetypes. The archetype seems powerful, but is balanced by a fairly nasty oracle curse.

Nine Mysteries: Nine spells nicely fits with the nine tailed fox theme, though the ability to pick and choose which spells actually replace those from your original mystery seems more powerful than usual. Then again, it may be balanced with this nastier than normal curse...

Mystic Kama:Another ability taken directly from kitsune lore, the oracle’s curse is replaced with a ‘star gem’. This gem is the oracle’s source of power, and he needs it to reliably cast spells similarly to an arcane bonded item. Also, just like in the legends, the kitsune becomes afraid of dogs. A very well thought out theme for an oracle’s curse. The only thing that bothers me about it is that it doesn’t have the usual progression of giving the oracle abilities that are tied to the curse as he gains levels.

Ki Pool and Ki Talents: A very interesting set of abilities that replace one or more oracle mysteries. The kitsune gains a ki pool, and can also gain ninja tricks. This can lead to an very unusual set of abilities and playstyle for an oracle. It also means the character could multiclass into either monk or ninja.

While I may have sounded critical of some of the contents of this pdf, overall I am quite pleased with it. This thing doubles the number of options available to kitsunes, and the contents are generally well written and well thought out. This is a very good buy for just a dollar, and a must buy for anyone who who wants to give kitsune players some unique options aside from simply building an enchantment sorcerer.


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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Thanks, Liz!

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

Contributor

Huzzah! :D

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Huzzah!

For those of you that don't pay close attention to the credits (you guys always read the credits, right? ಠ_ಠ), established 3pp author Alexander Augunas (you may know him from his work on Pact Magic Unbound) was the lead author on this product.

I fully blame Alexander for any mistakes, and eagerly await Endzeitgeist's excellent review of this product, to which I have gladly lent my name. : )

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

Contributor

Oh man, talk about being thrown under the Golarion equivalent of a bus! D:


Alright, considering how often I see Alexander in topics about the kitsune I know that he's undoubtedly put a lot of thought and work into this. That means I'm going to have to buy this pdf as soon as I get home. :D

Contributor

Matrix Dragon wrote:
Alright, considering how often I see Alexander in topics about the kitsune I know that he's undoubtedly put a lot of thought and work into this. That means I'm going to have to buy this pdf as soon as I get home. :D

Oh no! I'm found out!

Let's just say that this product, as advertised, is two pages long.

I sent Daron almost six pages of potential material for him to choose from for this PDF. /gasp


I just read the pdf, and I say it is really good. It adds several options that are very flavorful for Kitsunes, and I like the White Furred Oracle archetype.

I did find one error: the archetype's curse technically doesn't give a concentration DC for casting spells when you have lost your star gem, but I assume it is supposed to be the same as a standard bonded item (since that is what it is based on).

There is a design choice or two that I don't agree with, but the clever ways you came up with to turn various legendary kitsune abilities into usable character choices more than makes up for that I think. :D

I may post an actual review later. Also, I think this is going on my very short list of 3rd party products that I allow my players to use, lol.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Matrix Dragon wrote:
...the archetype's curse technically doesn't give a concentration DC for casting spells when you have lost your star gem, but I assume it is supposed to be the same as a standard bonded item (since that is what it is based on).

That is the correct assumption - this product was awfully tight on space!

Matrix Dragon wrote:
...I think this is going on my very short list of 3rd party products that I allow my players to use, lol.

You mean this one and all the other Amazing Races products, right?

Right? (ಠ_ಠ)

Matrix Dragon wrote:
I may post an actual review later.

You definitely should!

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts


Abandoned Arts wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
...I think this is going on my very short list of 3rd party products that I allow my players to use, lol.

You mean this one and all the other Amazing Races products, right?

Right? (ಠ_ಠ)

Lol! Well, it certainly makes me more interested in them :D

Contributor

Matrix Dragon wrote:
I did find one error: the archetype's curse technically doesn't give a concentration DC for casting spells when you have lost your star gem, but I assume it is supposed to be the same as a standard bonded item (since that is what it is based on).

Yup. The Star Gem functions in all ways as a wizard's bonded item, including the concentration check DC. Didn't think it was necessary to reprint that.

Quote:
There is a design choice or two that I don't agree with, but the clever ways you came up with to turn various legendary kitsune abilities into usable character choices more than makes up for that I think. :D

The day I learn how to please every gamer with everything I write is the day that I finally dethrone Jason Bulmahn as Supreme Commander of the Known Universe. ;-)

Quote:
I may post an actual review later. Also, I think this is going on my very short list of 3rd party products that I allow my players to use, lol.

DO ET!


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Quote:
There is a design choice or two that I don't agree with, but the clever ways you came up with to turn various legendary kitsune abilities into usable character choices more than makes up for that I think. :D

The day I learn how to please every gamer with everything I write is the day that I finally dethrone Jason Bulmahn as Supreme Commander of the Known Universe. ;-)

I think I didn't quite say that sentence the way I meant to say it D:

But yea, the only reason why I mentioned the concentration DC was because the Star Gem technically never says that it functions as a bonded object. It just says in a few places "Like an arcane bond, it does this" and "It is treated as an arcane bond for replacing and fixing it".

Yea, I get obsessive about the wording of rules. I think I'm a game designer's worst nightmare sometimes ;)

Contributor

Matrix Dragon wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Quote:
There is a design choice or two that I don't agree with, but the clever ways you came up with to turn various legendary kitsune abilities into usable character choices more than makes up for that I think. :D

The day I learn how to please every gamer with everything I write is the day that I finally dethrone Jason Bulmahn as Supreme Commander of the Known Universe. ;-)

I think I didn't quite say that sentence the way I meant to say it D:

But yea, the only reason why I mentioned the concentration DC was because the Star Gem technically never says that it functions as a bonded object. It just says in a few places "Like an arcane bond, it does this" and "It is treated as an arcane bond for replacing and fixing it".

Yea, I get obsessive about the wording of rules. I think I'm a game designer's worst nightmare sometimes ;)

Nah, the game designer's nightmare are the players who refuse to listen to what the designer intended so that options are broken or overpowered. :)

But yes, you can take the Curse to literally mean the following:

You get a small jewel as an arcane bond. It follows all of the usual arcane bond rules except it is used to cast oracle spells. The DC functions as the arcane bond's DC (20 + spell level) and you have to make concentration checks to cast spells, use spell-like abilities, and use supernatural abilities while you don't have the jewel.

I don't remember if I wrote the level that supernatural abilities have in this scenario; if I did, use that value. If I didn't, treat it as zero. If I were writing it at this moment, I'd probably have said to use half of the oracle's Hit Dice (minimum 1) to determine a supernatural ability's level, but if I didn't say that its too big of a change for something like this. :)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

The "effective level" of supernatural abilities for the purposes of the star gem is indeed written into the Mysyic Kama class feature.

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

Grand Lodge

I thought I would throw in my 2 cents here. I am new to Pathfinder having only played DnD 2nd Edition over 10 years ago. Currently playing a Human Samurai in PFS.

Kitsune's are one of my (if not my) favorite mythical races in any sort of story or fiction. I actually lived in Japan for quite a while and reading about Eastern Asian mythological creatures (kitsune, kappa, four legendary animals, moon rabbit, etc) was one of my favorite ways to spend time when I was at the library.

So you can imagine my dismay when I learned that kitsune are not currently legal in PFS without a boon which is somewhat of a disappointment as I will never have the chance to go to any con that gives out the ability to play as one. As much as I would love to support this (I will probably buy it anyway =P) I would love to see that be rectified in the future.

That being said, I applaud you all for your efforts on this and I may even write a review when I end up picking this up. Also Matrix Dragon, keep up your support for Kitsune's in the official forums. Love seeing you talk about them there. They seem to get a lot of flak from other players.

Thanks for making awesome products for awesome people. Cheers!

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Aha; an opportunity to happily take credit for author Alexander Augunas' awesomeness!

IrishWonda: thanks! You can always play a kitsune on a forum game. If you have a hard time finding a game to join, tell them Daron Woodson - founder and lead designer for Abandoned Arts - said to save you a place at the table. At first they'll act confused and pretend not to know who I am, but that's when you'll take advantage of the chaos, clubbing them with your Core Rulebook until you get a seat.

If you do write a review (you should!), or if you use any of Abandoned Arts' material in a home or online game, drop me a PM or bump the thread. The more love this product gets, the more our deserving author makes.

Oh, and if anyone is giving the kitsune any "flak," try that clubbing thing I mentioned before.

Enjoy,

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

Contributor

IrishWonda wrote:

I thought I would throw in my 2 cents here. I am new to Pathfinder having only played DnD 2nd Edition over 10 years ago. Currently playing a Human Samurai in PFS.

Kitsune's are one of my (if not my) favorite mythical races in any sort of story or fiction. I actually lived in Japan for quite a while and reading about Eastern Asian mythological creatures (kitsune, kappa, four legendary animals, moon rabbit, etc) was one of my favorite ways to spend time when I was at the library.

So you can imagine my dismay when I learned that kitsune are not currently legal in PFS without a boon which is somewhat of a disappointment as I will never have the chance to go to any con that gives out the ability to play as one. As much as I would love to support this (I will probably buy it anyway =P) I would love to see that be rectified in the future.

That being said, I applaud you all for your efforts on this and I may even write a review when I end up picking this up. Also Matrix Dragon, keep up your support for Kitsune's in the official forums. Love seeing you talk about them there. They seem to get a lot of flak from other players.

Thanks for making awesome products for awesome people. Cheers!

Anyone who stalks me on the messageboards (I'm looking at you, Matrix Dragon! :-P) will vouch when I say that this product came about because of my passion for this race. Before the Dragon Empires Primer came out, I had a similar race in my homebrew campaign that I phased out in favor for the kitsune when the race was released. I was delighted to find that they had made it into the Advanced Race Guide (literally by the skin of their teeth) and so it would come to be that several months later when a friend of mine asked me to play in a campaign he was planning that I told him I wanted to play a kitsune.

I would be lying to you if I said I didn't get flack for it myself at first. "I don't have any of those weird animal races in my campaign world!" he said. "Except for the hundreds of classic D&D monsters that you do have in your campaign world," I pointed out. But ultimately, it wasn't my incessant whining or my nitpicking and rules lawyering or even my devilish good looks that got my GM to allow me to play this character. Instead, I took all of the setting information that he gave me and came up with a background that made absolute sense. Having been raised by elves, I could have been the only kitsune on the entire continent for all I knew, but it was the combination of the character I had created and the way I tied him into the world that eventually won over my GM.

And as a fun aside, the pitch I made to Daron and the product that resulted from it would not have happened if my GM didn't agree to let me play my kitsune samurai. He's easily the best character I have ever played in any d20 game. Period.

I don't know if we'll ever see more kitsune stuff out of Paizo. I would love that, and if I've managed to build up my freelancer cred by that point in time I would also love to be a part of that. But in the meantime, writing products like this will only solidify that Paizo has something special with the kitsune race, a race with intrinsic roleplaying value that cannot be duplicated by any other thus far. Writing and supporting products like this will make more good things happen for the kitsune in the same way that support for the Paizo take on goblins in Rise of the Runelords elevated them to their mascot status in the company. In short, if you want to see more of something, support it!

Contributor

Also, I'm really hoping to see a review on this. This wasn't the first Pathfinder Product that I was a part of but it was my first freelance assignment. I'd love to do more freelancing, and an honest review could go a long way to helping me improve to the point where you might see my name on more products. ;-)


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Anyone who stalks me on the messageboards (I'm looking at you, Matrix Dragon! :-P)

*innocent look*

Hah, you attracted my attention when I saw you posting on the *other* recent 3rd party kitsune pdf ;)

Also, don't worry, I have a note saying that I need to review this thing. I've just been procrastinating on it more than I should...

Hah, now that I think about it, this procrastination may be the reason why I haven't gotten around to trying get my own "3rd party writer credit". I keep thinking about how it would be cool to see if I could submit some of my own homebrew stuff (including kitsune of course). I may have missed that boat by now though D:


IrishWonda wrote:
So you can imagine my dismay when I learned that kitsune are not currently legal in PFS without a boon which is somewhat of a disappointment as I will never have the chance to go to any con that gives out the ability to play as one. As much as I would love to support this (I will probably buy it anyway =P) I would love to see that be rectified in the future.

I got lucky with PFS. I went to a single con, got a good boon, and then traded it for a kitsune boon. I was playing a kitsune by my 5th PFS game and I have him up to level 5.

There is some talk about players getting random chances to get a boon for playing certain senarios though, so maybe you will be able to trade one of those if you get one.

IrishWonda wrote:
That being said, I applaud you all for your efforts on this and I may even write a review when I end up picking this up. Also Matrix Dragon, keep up your support for Kitsune's in the official forums. Love seeing you talk about them there. They seem to get a lot of flak from other players.

Hah, thanks! I have to say, kitsune are basically tied with dragons for my favorite fantasy race. I tend to focus on the kitsune more for pathfinder though since they are actually a playable race. I tend to post on topics about them as much as possible since I figure the more they are talked about the more slightly likely it is that paizo will create some more support for them. ;)

Grand Lodge

Alexander Augunas wrote:
I don't know if we'll ever see more kitsune stuff out of Paizo. I would love that, and if I've managed to build up my freelancer cred by that point in time I would also love to be a part of that. But in the meantime, writing products like this will only solidify that Paizo has something special with the kitsune race, a race with intrinsic roleplaying value that cannot be duplicated by any other thus far. Writing and supporting products like this will make more good things happen for the kitsune in the same way that support for the Paizo take on goblins in Rise of the Runelords elevated them to their mascot status in the company. In short, if you want to see more of something, support it!

I don't know if this is true but I hear that they have added the Kistune race into their latest bestiary guide from the latest con. Hopefully this is true and we will see some more love soon.

Unfortunately I don't even know where to begin with online play as PFS already has me spinning in circles. Loving it though so far. Maybe once I do some more research I will give it a shot. Any quick links you want to throw my way to get started?

Oh and trust me if I end up using this a PM will definitely be coming your way letting you know that a review will shortly follow!


Alright, finally got around to writing up my review. Just let me know if I put too much detail about the abilities in there (I tried to be vague), and I'll edit them out.

Contributor

Thanks for the Review! I think its fine the way it is, but I'd also look to see what Daron says. Author trumps Publisher in Rock-Paper-Scissors. :-P

That said, here's some insight on a few of your points:

Quote:
Feat-Kitsune Chakra: This feat lets the kitsune power some of his spell like abilities with ki points. I like the idea of this feat, but the thing that I don’t like about this one is that a kitsune who actually spends feats on Magical Tail probably won’t have many spare feats left to pick up this one.

I agree. If I could write an entire book about the Kitsune, I'd give them ways to acquire that feat in a zillion different ways, since the potential to gain multiple tails is one of the most iconic aspects of the kitsune, and its an option that I don't think a simple poorly laid-out feat chain does well. That said, you gotta work with what you're given sometimes. I can think of a few Ninja players I know who would go in simply for the 1 Ki for Charm Person trade, which only requires one feat if I recall correctly.

Quote:
Character Trait-Ordinary Forms: This trait seems a bit odd to me. It gives a minor bonus to hiding in crowds, but somehow applies to both of your forms? This may be the weakest option in the book.

The idea behind this trait is that the kitsune is good at simply disappearing into a crowd of people, despite what race they happen to be. If they're in a kitsune nation being hunted by kitsune guards, they are able to disguise themselves as being ordinary enough to blend in. I'm not sure if I would have included the "aid another" line if I was writing this today, because that's really only supposed to be thematic and not actually imply that the crowd is using the aid another action on you. But whatcha gonna do? Also, if a trait is the weakest option in the product, I consider that a victory. I'd hate for someone to make the same comment about, say, the product's archetype.

Quote:
Racial Trait-Blazing Spirit: Very well thought out and very thematic. This gives kitsune a limited use fire attack that can be used a significant number of times per day and works for both melee or ranged. It has a small amount of scaling, and will be very handy for kitsune characters at low levels when they can’t use their primary attack.

Fun story, my original draft had that spell-like ability usable at will. It was Daron's suggestion to change it to uses per day. You probably wouldn't need additional uses based on how many you get baseline alone, but you could combo this ability up with Kitsune Chakra for a near endless number of fireballs!

Quote:
Racial Trait-Graceful Attacks: This is a very nice option for a dex based melee kitsune who isn’t interested in using his bite attack. Plus, it saves the character a feat, and kitsunes are always feat starved.

This one was actually a really hard debate for me. I almost didn't include it because I was worried that it would make the race TOO good for potential swashbucklers. Plus Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat is an Advanced Racial Ability in the Advanced Race Guide. I went for it because of the catfolk scent precedent and because it made too much sense not to include.

Quote:
Racial Trait-Ki Pool: Ki is a theme in this book, and I guess it makes sense considering kitsune are asian themed. Stacks with ki pools from other classes and even lets monks use Cha for their ki pool... this ability is almost too good. However, considering neither monks nor ninjas are exactly top top tier, I can’t hold that against the designer. A very nice ability.

Ki is definitely the theme of the book for a number of reasons. And I'll be honest with you, Naruto is the major inspiration for this one for obvious reasons. Cringing aside, the major reason I focused on ki was that no other race has really done it before, except for the tengu, perhaps. Racial ki points as an idea I wanted to toy with, and its sort of interesting to think of a kitsune monk considering that the kitsune takes a Strength penalty and has no Wisdom bonus. One could argue that the product makes the kitsune ninja too good, but in all the playtesting I did there wasn't a noticeable difference between a kitsune with extra ki and Weapon Finesse from a human.

Quote:

And finally: The White Furred Oracle archetype.

I would have expected a sorcerer bloodline or archetype, so this was a welcome surprise. It is also very thematic considering that white furred kitsune often become oracles in Pathfinder. I really like this archetype, though my inner game designer cringes at the way this archetype doesn’t follow many of the standards for Oracles and Oracle Archetypes. It also may be a bit too powerful, though this does depend on how much the kitsune ends up being hampered by his curse.

You mentioned that you remembered me from the Kitsune Clans product from SGG. How the Star Kama is handled in that product drove me crazy, and when I pitched this product to Daron I knew that it was an aspect of kitsune lore that I wanted to address and do my own way. This archetype was directly born from that desire.

Quote:
Nine Mysteries: Nine spells nicely fits with the nine tailed fox theme, though the ability to pick and choose which spells actually replace those from your original mystery seems more powerful than usual. Then again, it may be balanced with this nastier than normal curse...

Remember that swapping the spells counts as your one-per-four-levels swap that you get for being an oracle; you don't get a free swap.

Quote:
Mystic Kama:Another ability taken directly from kitsune lore, the oracle’s curse is replaced with a ‘star gem’. This gem is the oracle’s source of power, and he needs it to reliably cast spells similarly to an arcane bonded item. Also, just like in the legends, the kitsune becomes afraid of dogs. A very well thought out theme for an oracle’s curse. The only thing that bothers me about it is that it doesn’t have the usual progression of giving the oracle abilities that are tied to the curse as he gains levels. This may have been left out because eventually the character will be able to auto-succeed at the curse's concentration checks.

Having a super negative curse is the balancing aspect of the archetype, because as you noticed the White-Furred Oracle does not stick to most spellcaster archetype conventions. It does not gain Diminished spells and it does not force you to take much of anything aside from changing all of your Mystery Spells and making you take this curse.

The ability does scale, but it isn't very obvious. Remember that as your spell level improves, this ability's free spell also goes up in spell level. A 2nd level oracle is stuck casting 1st level spells with this curse, but a 20th level oracle could cast a 9th level spell if she wanted to. Also, the fact that you can swap mystery spells is intended to be like a "benefit" to the curse, although its listed in a separate entry. This is an example of an archetype where trades between parts aren't 100% balanced, but the whole of the archetype is.

Quote:
Ki Pool and Ki Talents: A very interesting set of abilities that replace one or more oracle mysteries. The kitsune gains a ki pool, and can also gain ninja tricks. This can lead to an very unusual set of abilities and playstyle for an oracle. It also means the character could multiclass into either monk or ninja.

That was the idea! A character that embodies the kitsune myth should not play like a typical oracle does. Some of the awesome combinations that I saw included: grabbing Vanishing Trick for a combat-focused oracle, grabbing Rogue Talents that grant the oracle extra bonus feats like Style Feat, Combat Trick, and Weapon Training, but my favorite was the character who grabbed the Monk feat that let you walk up walls. It was certainly difficult for enemies corner that oracle!

My philosophy when designing archetypes and Prestige Classes is, "How can I give a unique play experience that is still balanced?" Giving up Revelations, the Oracle's Power House, for a limited pool of abilities from other appropriately themed classes is such an example.

Quote:
While I may have sounded critical of some of the contents of this pdf, overall I am quite pleased with it. This thing doubles the number of options available to kitsunes, and the contents are generally well written and well thought out. This is a very good buy for just a dollar, and a must buy for anyone who who wants to give kitsune players some unique options aside from simply building an enchantment sorcerer.

Thanks for the kind words! I hope I've also given you some insight into my thought process when designing the content in this product. While I love getting feedback, I also love explaining my reasoning behind my crazy design decisions! Plus I also think its important to digest this sort of stuff so you know what you can do better next time. ;-)

That is, assuming that there will be a next time! *winks at Daron*

Grand Lodge

Going to pick this up when I get home today. Will most likely write a review after I get a few builds thought out and do some self role play with a few simple scenarios my friends and I have thought up in the past.


After thinking on things for a bit more, I've realized that the oracle curse is actually much harsher than I realized. The toughest thing about it isn't the concentration checks or being afraid of dogs. It is that you have to hold the star gem in one of your hands whenever you use a spell or spell like ability. That means you have to use your other hand for spellcasting, leaving nothing for weapons or metamagic rods. In addition, it makes it much more difficult to cast 'secretly'.

At high levels the kitsune would probably be able to succeed at most of the concentration checks for not holding the gem in a hand, but at low to mid levels it would be a major issue. With this in mind, I think I'll edit the review at some point because I no longer think the oracle archetype is possibly overpowered ;)

Contributor

Matrix Dragon wrote:

After thinking on things for a bit more, I've realized that the oracle curse is actually much harsher than I realized. The toughest thing about it isn't the concentration checks or being afraid of dogs. It is that you have to hold the star gem in one of your hands whenever you use a spell or spell like ability. That means you have to use your other hand for spellcasting, leaving nothing for weapons or metamagic rods. In addition, it makes it much more difficult to cast 'secretly'.

At high levels the kitsune would probably be able to succeed at most of the concentration checks for not holding the gem in a hand, but at low to mid levels it would be a major issue. With this in mind, I think I'll edit the review at some point because I no longer think the oracle archetype is possibly overpowered ;)

Indeed! Which is one of the reasons the archetype was designed to sync up with the Monk class as well as it does. ;-)

Also, there's always the option of going Feral Combat Training with the bite attack ....

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Matrix Dragon wrote:
After thinking on things for a bit more, I've realized that the oracle curse is actually much harsher than I realized. The toughest thing about it isn't the concentration checks or being afraid of dogs. It is that you have to hold the star gem in one of your hands whenever you use a spell or spell like ability. That means you have to use your other hand for spellcasting, leaving nothing for weapons or metamagic rods. In addition, it makes it much more difficult to cast 'secretly'.

It's about as rough on the oracle as it is on a wizard who takes a wand or staff for his arcane bond... except that the star gem doesn't actually do anything. Given that an oracle still threatens with its natural attacks, the "hands" loss doesn't hurt the kitsune as much as it might another "fighting spellcaster."

Like Alexander says though, dipping monk takes the edge off, and the whole product is designed to make ki class dips more attractive.

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts


I while ago I was tinkering around with a homebrew kitsune sorcerer bloodline, and I actually had the first level bloodline power be an arcane bonded "Kitsune Star Ball". I'm not surprised that I'm not the only one who thought of this, since the tales about the star balls basically scream 'arcane bonded item'. XD My version was basically the same thing as the curse here, except it could be treated as a wand or staff for enchanting.

I thought the idea was so cool at first until I realized the drawbacks of having to hold the thing in hand. With that in mind, it probably fits much better as a curse in this form XD

Hah, I need to put some more thought into that bloodline and see if I can get it into a more polished form.

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Neat bloodline, Matrix Dragon!

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts


For the purpose of discussion/complementing my review, here's a copy of the discussion on my page:

Daron Woodson wrote:

Thanks for the review, Thilo!

A quick note about the white-furred oracle’s ki pool – it does NOT allow the kitsune to cast 9 spells at once! The oracle can use this ability to cast one of her mystery spells or one of her “nine mysteries” spells (the nine spells granted by the “nine mysteries” class feature). In hindsight, I can see why the language might be confusing! I may get this errata’d just for clarity’s sake – but rest assured, the ki pool is in NO way meant to allow a character to cast nine simultaneous spells!

Also, just like it says, spells cast in this way are not expended. The whole idea is that the oracle may spend a number of ki points instead of expending the spell in question.

Endzeitgeist wrote:


I figured as much:

“Finally, a white-furred oracle can cast one of her mystery’s spell or nine mystery spells as a full-round action without expending a spell slot by spending a number of ki points equal to the spell’s level.”

The “or nine mystery spells” part feels unnecessary and makes one think that multiple casts would be possible due to the double mentioning of “mystery’s spells”. If you change the wording, I’ll modify the review accordingly.

Alexander Augunas wrote:


Hey EZG! Thanks for the review. Here are some notes (so you can see into the mind of madness).

–Aside from being racially restrictive, Kitsune Chakra has the additional downside that you absolutely need to take Magical Tail, a poor feat in itself, in order to get any benefit. While its true that Kitsune Chakra becomes more powerful as you invest more feats into Magical Tail, that was sort of the design goal. Eight selections of Magical Tail by itself is a pretty terrible character choice and even with Kitsune Chakra, you can do MUCH better with nine feats, which is almost every feat you will obtain sans bonus feats.

–While Shapechanger’s Surprise is powerful, as you noted you are giving up your best attack per turn in order to use it. Because the feat only works when you transform into your true form, in theory you could use this ability every round if you have the feat from Dragon Empires that allows you to change shape as a swift action, but multiple demoralizes will stack the DC laughably quickly (+4 bonus on top of the +5 bonus per retry as stated in the Intimidate rules).

–Some people are naturally good at picking up languages, and I would expect someone as charismatically guileful as a kitsune to learn languages rather quickly. Note that you still have to spend the skill points in order to obtain them in the first place.

–You can take Ki based feats with the Kitsune racial ability as long as you meet all other prerequisites of the feat. Those feats are Extra Ki Pool and Ki Stand; all other ki feats either require a list of specific feats or monk levels. Again, hardly game-breaking. On its own, the kitsune’s Damage Reduction lasts until the end of the turn that its used, so you might reduce the sting of one creature’s attack. Also, the DR is negated by cold iron and as per the rules, anything with DR / cold iron can overcome DR / cold iron with its natural attacks. DR / cold iron is incredibly common, with fey and demons at the forefront of its users.

–The white furred oracle is an incredibly subtle archetype whose penalties are only truly noticeable if your GM remembers to include them. Your right, I didn’t include rules for sundering the star gem because a wizard’s arcane bond doesn’t possess those same rules. However you would rule it for a wizard’s bond, rule it for the oracle.

Some things you did not mention: the gem needs to be directly held in your hand in order to receive this benefit. This means that if you want to cast a spell or use a supernatural ability of any kind (including that ki pool), you need to restrict yourself to only having one available hand. Since casting a spell requires one hand, you can’t wield a weapon and cast a spell at the same time while holding the star gem. Using a two-handed weapon would likewise be virtually impossible because you couldn’t make use of that ki pool with both hands on your glaive / axe / whatever and still do simple things like use your ki pool. The ability also affects every spell. spell-like ability, and supernatural ability you possess. Nowhere do I specify “oracle” stuff. So if you multiclass, you’re still restricted. Compared to the limitations of effectively having one hand while using your magic, the frightful presence is basically a kick while you’re down. Also recall that oracle curses usually improve as you level. The star gem does not aside from the level of spontaneous spell you can cast growing higher. You take all of these penalties for what amounts to one extra spell slot.

–The Ki pool should read something along the lines of, “The WFO can use her ki pool to cast one of her mystery spells or kitsune arcana spells (I think we changed the name to something else in editing, but kitsune arcana spells are basically the spells that the archetype replaces the standard mystery spells with). I think that the interpretation of, “Use the pool to cast all these spells at once?!?!” is incredibly silly on your part, personally, especially considering that the ability notes that you need to expand a number of points equal to the spell’s (singular noun) level in order to do so.

Honestly, there were absolutely no problems with this archetype in the playtesting I gave it, and most of the people I showed it to actually thought the star gem was too punishing of a curse when I explained all of the subtleties to it. I will take the criticism that the star gem should have had its intricacies spelled out a bit more in its text instead of relying on rules mastery on the player’s / GM’s part.

If you’re interested, take a peek at the sources I used to design some of the things you didn’t like, and then reread the product. The archetype itself is heavily based on the Tengu’s Shenjigo Oracle archetype (see the Advanced Race Guide) and all of the racial traits were designed using the Advanced Race Guide’s race builder chapter.

Endzeitgeist wrote:


Hej Alexander!

Thanks for commenting! :)

-Kitsune Chakra: I did write “Powerful one, but since it’s restricted to kitsune, I won’t complain here.” That’s an acknowledgment of power while stating that the feat, were it general and less restrictive, would be unbalancing. It’s not. I never claimed it was.

-Shapechanger’s Reveal: That one boils down to personal preference. I can’t fathom in game of foes falling prey to it more than once per combat/24 hour period and yes, +4 make it get less useful fast, but with glibness etc., it still works more often than it should. A longer range and instead less repeatable changes would imho make the feat more believable for the “big reveal/trickster”-style you were going for. After all, it’s fool me once, fool me twice, isn’t it?
Still, I wrote ” this feat’s limit make it workable, if not superb.” – even with my personal preference, I consider it okay.

-”Some people are naturally good at picking up languages, and I would expect someone as charismatically guileful as a kitsune to learn languages rather quickly. ” – noted that. I’m a polyglot myself, but even as one picking languages up VERY easily, languages are already ridiculously cheap in d20-based systems. Further cheapening them just rubs me the wrong way.

-Your claim of only 2 ki-feats requiring no monk-levels/excessive feats is unfortunately simply wrong. “Deny Death” only requires endurance for example. And don’t get me started on “Way of Ki”, “Heroes of the Jade Oath” etc. And while you could claim to taking only Paizo-feats into account, that does not change that the ability per se does not take the potential for more ki-feats into account in its wording. Also: Ninjas and similar classes have gotten access to ki. And yes, DR 5/cold iron is not that uncommon and can be bypassed by many creatures. That doesn’t change that it’s still VERY powerful to have at low levels.

- I actually LIKE the one-hand-occupied balancing of the WFO. Unlike a wizard’s arcane bonded item, a star gem is a unique item. An arcane bond is either “amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon”, following the rules of these items. The star gem is neither and thus imho would require hp, hardness etc.

-You are of course free to consider my campy, exaggerated notion of “Casting nine spells” as “incredibly silly” – it only mirrors the wording’s ambiguity by its over-the-topness. It’s your decision to take offense here – none was intended on my part.

-I am aware of the Shenjigo oracle and consider, for what that’s worth, your oracle to be the superior archetype – the ARG did nothing for PFRPG regarding the quality of crunch and in contrast to the vast majority of the ARG book, as written, I actually LIKE this offering, though I’d disagree that the WFO requires system-mastery from either players or GMs – it’s complex, but definitely not dauntingly so.

BUT: The WFO has some wordings that require polish. Star Gems need at least an acknowledgment that they e.g. have the same statistics as an arcane bond amulet or the like. As always, if there’s a revision, I’ll upgrade my review accordingly.

Cheers!

Reviewed first on Endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to GMS magazine and Nerdtrek and posted here, on OBS and d20pfsrd.com's shop.


The archetype looks interesting...


It is! I can only recommend it and once the ambiguities are gone, its cool ideas will be reflected in a verdict-upgrade and for its fair price, even without a revision, this is a good buy.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Okay. You have my interest.

Contributor

Thanks for posting all of that over here, EZG, and thanks for all of the warm posts from other people. :)

My responses to EZG that were quoted above were very rushed (I had an interview that I was getting to leave for while reading his review and commenting) so I wanted to take a moment to give some more insight on the cause of some of the problems in the PDF.

The one that really had me confused was the notion of, "casting nine spells at once." I had no idea what EZG was talking about when he posted that, so when I got home I went back and read the final copy of the product to try and figure out where that interpretation came from. I found it almost instantly.

When I originally wrote Amazing Races! Kitsune, the White-Furred oracle replaced all of the Oracle's bonus spells with a new set that was almost spell-for-spell pulled from the Magical Tail feat. I originally called that ability kitsune arcana, but when it came time to finalize Amazing Races! Kitsune Daron worried that people would be confused because the term "Arcana" is associated both with magi (Magus Arcanas) and sorcerers (Bloodline Arcanas). So in the end, that ability was changed to Nine Mysteries in reference to the Nine-Tailed fox. I thought it sounded cool, so we published it. Not once did either of us think, "Gee, doesn't the Oracle already have an ability called 'mystery spells?'" And thus the confusion was born.

What the ki pool is trying to say to you is that you can expend ki points to cast a spell without expending a spell slot. The spell must belong either to the oracle's mystery bonus spells or the bonus spells provided by the archetype. Doing so increases the spell's casting time to a full-round action. Below is the final, revised version of that part of the ki pool that I sent to Daron this morning. I cannot promise that this is what the ability will look like when Daron revises the product, as I'm not affiliated with Abandoned Arts and don't have that sort of clout. I can make suggestions, but ultimately he's the publisher, after all. :)

Anyway, this is how I would errata the ki pool:

White-Furred Oracle's Ki Pool wrote:


Finally, the white-furred oracle can cast a spell as a full-round action without expending a spell slot by spending a number of points from her ki pool equal to the spell's level. The spell must be of a level that the oracle could normally cast and must be drawn from the list of her mystery's bonus spells or the list of nine mysteries spells. Metamagic feats cannot be applied to spells cast using the ki pool. A spell does not need to be on the white-furred oracle's list of spells known in order to be cast using this ability. Using her ki pool to perform any of these abilities is a swift action.

Sovereign Court

Would buy if it was PFS legal. (Not sure if it is or if the race requires a boon). :P

Webstore Gninja Minion

Kysune wrote:
Would buy if it was PFS legal. (Not sure if it is or if the race requires a boon). :P

No third-party supplement for Pathfinder is currently legal for use in Pathfinder Society.

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Thanks for your review, Endzeitgeist!

At present, I'm working up a clarification (not really an errata, just a clean-up of the text) for the ki pool ability - I can see how and where the language would suggest that it allows the oracle to cast NINE mystery spells. Obviously that's not how it works, but the language is almost comically fuzzy, as your review points out.

I'm going to run the text by Alexander - it's got his name on it, after all - but I'll have the text cleaned up as soon as I hear back from him.

Oh! And as I quite plainly and officially stated before this product even hit the shelves: any fault with this product does, of course, lie with the author - even though I'm the one that changed the name of the ability in question, thus causing the confusion! Being a publisher is NEAT! : )

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kysune wrote:
Would buy if it was PFS legal. (Not sure if it is or if the race requires a boon). :P

If it would inspire you to buy the product, I can declare it PFS-legal.

Spoiler:
It wouldn't make it true, but I could definitely declare it.

Contributor

I need to stop setting myself up next to all these buses. >_<


Updated my review on all appropriate sites.

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Thanks, Endzeitgeist.

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

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