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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Mythic Adventures (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Mythic Adventures (OGL)
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Heroes of Legend

Not all heroes are created equal. Many adventurers pick up swords or call upon strange powers in times of trouble, yet only a few are chosen by fate or the gods to change the course of history. These are mythic heroes—legendary figures whose every footstep shakes the heavens. With Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Mythic Adventures, it's your turn to change the world. Choose a mythic path and take on unbelievable powers by completing mythic trials tied to your character's story. Each mythic path works in parallel with your character class, allowing you to continue advancing in your chosen calling even as you seek a greater destiny. Best of all, you can start playing a mythic character at any point—even as early as 1st level!

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Mythic Adventures is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds on more than 10 years of system development and open playtests featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Mythic Adventures is a 256-page hardcover book that includes:

  • Complete rules for playing mythic characters of six different paths: archmage, champion, guardian, hierophant, marshal, and trickster.
  • New mythic feats for every class, such as Powerful Shape, which allows druids to transform into enormous animals, or Deadly Stroke, which lets a mythic character dispatch even a formidable enemy with a single blow.
  • A whole grimoire of new and supercharged spells. Bring down a castle with a mythic meteor swarm, transform the landscape with terraform, or make every memory and record of someone disappear with mythic modify memory!
  • Tons of monsters enhanced with mythic abilities and ready to challenge your heroes, from dragons to vampires!
  • A hoard of new mythic magic items and artifacts. Brandish the sword of inner fire, capable of burning even elemental creatures, or turn your enemies to stone with the medusa-headed shield aegis!
  • A complete mythic adventure for 7th-level characters.
  • Advice on running a mythic game and forging your own legends.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-549-5

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Paizo's only major failure

1/5 —

This is my only 1 star review of a Paizo product. So I feel the need to explain why.

Mythic Adventures is a based on a great idea. Instead of restricting epic play to (say) characters after level 20, create a mythic system that runs orthogonal to standard level advancement, and which allows players to do things and explore themes not allowed by the standard ruleset.

In the abstract, here are the kinds of things one would want such a product to do:

--1. Provide new mythic abilities which provide plot hooks, inspire the imagination, and suggest ideas for various campaigns or adventures.

--2. Provide new mythic abilities which allow players to do qualitatively different kinds of things than the standard ruleset allows.

Now, D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder have a number of problems when it comes to high-level play: everything takes too long to resolve, and the combat starts turning into rocket-tag -- whoever goes first wins. In part this is because the core game offers more means of boosting offense than defense, and in part this is because the D&D 3.5 math doesn't extend well to high level play. Given this, here are the kinds of things one would hope such a product would avoid:

--3. Avoid positing many more mythic abilities that boost offense than defense.

--4. Avoid new abilities which just add static bonuses to everything. (Increasing everyone's BAB and AC by 10 doesn't make your game more mythic -- it just leaves you with the same game but different numbers.)

--5. Avoid positing abilities which do little other than boost the numbers into the high-level regime where the D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder math breaks down.

--6. Avoid adding abilities which add new sui generis ways of making the game rocket-tag like, by adding yet more "I win"-types of abilities (either by themselves, or in combination with other Pathfinder material that's been published elsewhere).

Unfortunately, for the most part, the mythic ruleset doesn't satisfy these desiderata. Most mythic abilities and spells offer what are effectively bland numerical boosts. There are many more ways to boost offense than defense. There are a handful of abilities inspire plot hooks and feel epic (mythic Levitate and mythic Sleep, for example), but they're surprisingly few in number -- the spells in Ultimate Intrigue offer more interesting plot hooks and adventure ideas than can be found in this entire book. And the mythic rules introduce a huge number of ways to break the game, especially when considered in combination with abilities offered in other books: attacks that do over a 1000 points of damage, spells that ignore SR, give no save, and could kill any creature published in the Bestiary, and so on. (The 3rd party product Mythic Solutions offers some helpful suggestions for how to tone down the mythic rules a bit, but in my experience, most of the game-breaking abilities and combos we ran into are left intact.)

It's not all bad. As I mentioned, there are a handful of mythic spells that feel epic and are plot-hook inspiring, and the book offers some tools for DMs to use to make opponents more deadly. But on the whole, most of what's in this book is best avoided.

Rare mixed, but generally okay, score

3/5 —

This book presents an excellent way, which I think worked better than 3.0-3.5's epic system, to allow for the truly legendary and heroic heroes of the world. Think less Aragorn and more Beowulf. In general it is a fine product and I don't recommend against getting it.

That said though I found it flawed in two ways which, while they've occasionally crept up into other PF/Paizo books, I think need to be noted.
1) Balance issues. To some extent when you discuss epic you're throwing that out the window anyway but this book, more so than even other books like the ARG or what the Ultimate series offered, needs a GM to keep an eye on what's going on. I wish it had undergone more play testing but I think this might just be an inherent issue at this power level. When you start multiplying character power as a DM you need to be ready to regulate that.
2) Print quality. The bigger issue I had. I've tried to physically own this book 4 times now. Twice from game stores in two different states and twice from a credible online store. In all four cases I found inking issues on some of the artwork, 3 of the times on the same few pictures. This is problematic because one of the biggest reasons to get the printed book and not just use the online info for free is the artwork. I am about to try and buy it again now, hopefully it's on a later run at this point and that's been fixed. That said, if you buy it and care about the artwork make sure to look at the larger pictures in the book and make sure they aren't faded or have streaks at any points.

In summary though, I want to make it clear that for it's price it's not a bad book. I'd give it a C++ or B-, it won't be something you regret (especially if you don't care much about a few images being a little off). It was a good, and unique, Paizo/Pathfinder book just not one of their very best.

5/5 —

I've reviewed this book over on RPGGeek.com.

Hopefully More To Come

3/5 —

I was thrilled at the concept of this book. Sometimes the story, the characters, need to step up to a more rareified level and really bring the oomph and this book provides the oomph. I especially love some of the little pieces added therein that make a mythic adventure less roll-play and more role-play; the concept that mythic power can simply go away, that the leveling of tiers is solely up to the DM, that in fact much of the advancement and introduction should be story-based.

Loved all of that.

But for what I didn't love.

1. The powers offered are wildly inconsistent in effectiveness. I don't mean powers that are taking for a roleplaying reason. I mean powers that are obviously crunch-based when compared to another crunch power and you cannot fathom how one is supposed to anywhere near equal another. The same with the feats.

2. The very limited scope of mythic paths. I get that this is the intro book and we cannot get a ton of paths right off the bat, but really, six paths? Only 37 pages of path descriptions and powers out of 250+ pages? I've played more characters that wouldn't fit into these paths thematically than would.

3. Mythic monsters takes 57 pages and could have been done in 10. Paizo has been awesome about not reprinting crunch from one book to another, really guaranteeing the value you get in a book. But the monsters presented are basically mythic versions of creatures we all know already. And the mythic build rules for creatures are simple enough (a good thing!) that all we really needed was one example.

So, I like the idea, was a little less than thrilled with the execution, but I am awaiting more.

BAD *SS book

5/5 —

Here is why I like it. The system is so flexible that a GM can attach the rules to his or her game anywhere, anytime. Additionally, said GM can pace advancement to fit his or her campaign. Want PCs that are only marginally more powerful than standard PCs? Simply space or limit the number of trials.

Walks like its mythic, quacks like its mythic. It's mythic.

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The Golux wrote:
Since Mythic Deadly Aim doesn't have the same doubleing-added-damage-before-multiplying-on-crit text that Mythic Power Attack does, I'm inclined to either drop it from power attack or (significantly less likely) add it to deadly aim.

Eh, I think maybe Mythic Power Attack should be better. I mean, Mythic Rapid Shot + Mythic Manyshot is almost like giving archers 2 more attacks per FA.

(Then again, now they have to deal with Mythic Deflect Arrows, so *shrug*)

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Odraude wrote:
Pretty much. At 3rd Tier, you gain two domains, both of which have to be alignment domains (unless you are neutral). Then at 6 and 9, you get more domains and subdomains of your choice. So basically, at MT 3, you can have clerics of yourself. I plan on having my cohort as my high priest.

Do I have to be a Hierophant or something in order to get this, or can I be any class/path?

Divine Source is in a Universal path ability, so anyone with at least 3 tiers can select it.

Why is Mythic Power Attack so hard for people to understand??

Spoiler:
Power Attack: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

Mythic Power Attack: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus on melee damage rolls instead of +2. When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 instead of +2. In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit, before it’s multiplied by the
weapon’s critical multiplier.
You can expend one use of mythic power when you activate Power Attack to ignore the penalties on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks for 1 minute.

If you have MPA the Bonus is -1 attack, +3 Damage (One-handed).
The non-mythic PA states: this damage is increase by +50% if 2 handed.
BAB 1-3 -1 Attack, +3 Damage (+50%)= 4 (round down) yes not too dif from the normal PA.
BAB 4-8 -2 Attack, +6 Damage (+50%)= (6+50%) = 9
On a Crit that 9 is doubled = 18. Str & magic are still multiplied by the weapons mod & so is the MPA damage. And so on per 4 BAB.

So the damage for a Str 18 (4 mod) nonmagic weapon used 2 handed w/ MPA,a BAB of 4 & x2 critical weapon is
((4*1.5 str) + (0 Magic)+ ((9MPA*2)=18)) x 2 = ((6 + 0 + 18)x2) = 48
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I liked some of the new outfits the iconics sported, but it took me awhile to put my finger on what was wrong with Mer's outfit on page 45... just not enough throwing daggers.

I can SEE 29, assuming some of those are doubled on her right side it's up to 38.

She needs at least 12 more.
Laruuk wrote:

I can SEE 29, assuming some of those are doubled on her right side it's up to 38.

She needs at least 12 more.

Huh, I counted forty or so. The way that she appears in other artwork in the book, though, and some of the little protrusions that seem to come from the hilts, they do seem to be doubled.

Silver Crusade

This book has my favorite Pathfinder marilith art so far. Badass.

I wholeheartedly support Lem and Amiri's mythic appearances becoming thier new standard too. :)

but man that art on page 173 is so easy to misinterpret at a glance! :D

edit-I'm honestly surprised nobody's pointed out the beefcake triple combo after Valerose, Seltyiel, and Sajan boycotted upper-body attire.

I love the art in this book...

So did everybody see the surprise appearence of a non-core iconic? It is a surprised because I was lead to believe it would just have the core iconics in it...but one manages to sneak in on page 113.

Did anybody else see any of the other non-core iconics?
Mikaze wrote:
but man that art on page 173 is so easy to misinterpret at a glance! :D

Yeah I had to do a double take when I saaw that...for a second their I thought it was a section on Mythic Erotica.

Dark_Mistress wrote:
I liked some of the new outfits the iconics sported, but it took me awhile to put my finger on what was wrong with Mer's outfit on page 45... just not enough throwing daggers.

According to her she also keeps hidden daggers on herself.

It's just too bad she won't tell us how many there are or where she keeps them leaving us all to speculate on where she's hiding them.
Silver Crusade
John Kretzer wrote:

I love the art in this book...

So did everybody see the surprise appearence of a non-core iconic? It is a surprised because I was lead to believe it would just have the core iconics in it...but one manages to sneak in on page 113.

Did anybody else see any of the other non-core iconics?

I haven't seen any, but I wonder if that's actually Mythic Feiya. I think the whole APG crew are getting their own makeovers in the player companion, IIRC...

Silver Crusade

Maybe I'm just overlooking it, but does anyone know which Champion(or other) mythic abilities are being used by Valeros and Seltyiel for the shirtless martial look?

It's something of a high demand look that minimum AC expectations tend to get in the way of. :)
Mikaze wrote:
but man that art on page 173 is so easy to misinterpret at a glance! :D

When I go mythic, I go mythic in every way!

Mikaze wrote:
Maybe I'm just overlooking it, but does anyone know which Champion(or other) mythic abilities are being used by Valeros and Seltyiel for the shirtless martial look?

Mythic Pecs?

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

Maybe I'm just overlooking it, but does anyone know which Champion(or other) mythic abilities are being used by Valeros and Seltyiel for the shirtless martial look?

It's something of a high demand look that minimum AC expectations tend to get in the way of. :)

Could be that they dual-pathed into Archmage (or Trickster and took Path Dabbling) for Enduring Armor. Would make a lot of sense for Seltyiel, actually.

Glamered armor is the simpler answer. Making your +5 [special material here] full plate be just a pauldron (or a pair of pants, or a bikini) can be a pretty amusing thing to do.

Feiya on p. 113 doesn't look any different from normal, and also looks she was done by a different artist, so I doubt that's her mythic look.
magnuskn wrote:
Could be that they dual-pathed into Archmage (or Trickster and took Path Dabbling) for Enduring Armor. Would make a lot of sense for Seltyiel, actually.

Could also go into Guardian to pick up Fast Healing, Impervious Body and similar. No need for AC when you can just take it straight to the face without flinching!

Liberty's Edge

At last, the Mighty PDF is mine !!!! :-))

Subscribers, take notice : adding anything to your shipment will delay it by days at the very least (and you will not know beforehand when it would be shipped and thus ready for download) :-(
Mikaze wrote:
but man that art on page 173 is so easy to misinterpret at a glance! :D
John Kretzer wrote:
Yeah I had to do a double take when I saaw that...for a second their I thought it was a section on Mythic Erotica.

I could have done without seeing that artwork in this context...

ugh...

;)

On a more serious note - the art in this book is amazing!
The black raven wrote:

At last, the Mighty PDF is mine !!!! :-))

Subscribers, take notice : adding anything to your shipment will delay it by days at the very least (and you will not know beforehand when it would be shipped and thus ready for download) :-(

Adding items won't always delay your subscription.

The Customer Service gurus have said that adding items to your subscription causes your order to be randomly placed in the queue.

This month, like you, I added something (Visions of WAR) to my subscription and didn't get my PDFs until Wednesday. Last month I added an extra item (Combat Pad) to my subscription and got my PDFs on the first day of shipping.
Laruuk wrote:
On a more serious note - the art in this book is amazing!

I'm still not too fussed on the mythic looks of Seoni, Seelah, Amiri and Lini. Seelah picked up an artifact halo, Seoni decided to wear less clothing, Amiri has a domino mask but otherwise doesn't seem quite as distinctive as she should be...

(Although unlike the look from the catalogue, I can sort of tell what's different about Lini now. It's just too much like Seoni's.)

Compared to some of the others (Valeros, Sajan and Kyra are the big ones; I'd actually be quite happy if Kyra kept her trenchcoat look as her iconic appearance permanently), they just aren't impressing me.

All that being said, however, the picture with Sajan jumping into the air to punch out a Tyrannosaur while Amiri uses the Ankylosaur for a fastball special against a third dinosaur? Badass.

where can i download the character sheet for mythics?
Scarab Sages
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Juda de Kerioth wrote:
where can i download the character sheet for mythics?

Good question. I know it's in the book.

It'll probably see release when Mythic hits the PRD.
Digital Products Assistant
Juda de Kerioth wrote:
where can i download the character sheet for mythics?

These will get added to the Community Use Package sometime very soon.

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Juda de Kerioth wrote:
where can i download the character sheet for mythics?
These will get added to the Community Use Package sometime very soon.

Thanks Chris, i keep waiting...

I feel a bit silly for asking, but I have read the description of this book several times, even gave it a peak at my local hobby story. I am still not sure what this book does, who it is for (I am guessing both GMs and players, because there are monster stats).

Is it a book that gives your heroes and monsters a sort of template? They gain powerful abilities and can withstand more, and you can apply that at very low levels (less than level 5) and epic characters? (15+, even over 20).

At first, I thought it was a book for epic level characters.

I am still not sure, if anyone could clarify this for, I would be very grateful.
amir90 wrote:

I feel a bit silly for asking, but I have read the description of this book several times, even gave it a peak at my local hobby story. I am still not sure what this book does, who it is for (I am guessing both GMs and players, because there are monster stats).

Is it a book that gives your heroes and monsters a sort of template? They gain powerful abilities and can withstand more, and you can apply that at very low levels (less than level 5) and epic characters? (15+, even over 20).

At first, I thought it was a book for epic level characters.

I am still not sure, if anyone could clarify this for, I would be very grateful.

It is not rules for epic play (Levels 21+)

It is usable between levels 1-20
every 2 Mythic Tiers is approximately equal to 1 level and there are up to 10 Mythic Tiers.

I hope this helps somewhat :)
Realmwalker wrote:
amir90 wrote:

I feel a bit silly for asking, but I have read the description of this book several times, even gave it a peak at my local hobby story. I am still not sure what this book does, who it is for (I am guessing both GMs and players, because there are monster stats).

Is it a book that gives your heroes and monsters a sort of template? They gain powerful abilities and can withstand more, and you can apply that at very low levels (less than level 5) and epic characters? (15+, even over 20).

At first, I thought it was a book for epic level characters.

I am still not sure, if anyone could clarify this for, I would be very grateful.

It is not rules for epic play (Levels 21+)

It is usable between levels 1-20
every 2 Mythic Tiers is approximately equal to 1 level and there are up to 10 Mythic Tiers.

I hope this helps somewhat :)

A little :)

At what level range is it recommend to use it? Right from the beginning of a new campaign (level 1 usually) or is it more balanced at higher levels?

I won't buy the book untill a couple of months (because of school), but this book seems to change enough of Pathfinder that I need to plan it out a bit, especially since I will combine it with Ultimate Campaign :P
amir90 wrote:
I won't buy the book untill a couple of months (because of school), but this book seems to change enough of Pathfinder that I need to plan it out a bit, especially since I will combine it with Ultimate Campaign :P

If you are going to wait a couple of months, check the online PRD here at Paizo. These rules will be online by them. We are "guessing" sometime during September.

-- david
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
amir90 wrote:
Realmwalker wrote:
amir90 wrote:

I feel a bit silly for asking, but I have read the description of this book several times, even gave it a peak at my local hobby story. I am still not sure what this book does, who it is for (I am guessing both GMs and players, because there are monster stats).

Is it a book that gives your heroes and monsters a sort of template? They gain powerful abilities and can withstand more, and you can apply that at very low levels (less than level 5) and epic characters? (15+, even over 20).

At first, I thought it was a book for epic level characters.

I am still not sure, if anyone could clarify this for, I would be very grateful.

It is not rules for epic play (Levels 21+)

It is usable between levels 1-20
every 2 Mythic Tiers is approximately equal to 1 level and there are up to 10 Mythic Tiers.

I hope this helps somewhat :)

A little :)

At what level range is it recommend to use it? Right from the beginning of a new campaign (level 1 usually) or is it more balanced at higher levels?

I won't buy the book untill a couple of months (because of school), but this book seems to change enough of Pathfinder that I need to plan it out a bit, especially since I will combine it with Ultimate Campaign :P

Any, you can add it to a game at any point and remove it from the game at any point. Advancing is all story based, so the GM can decide when to increase the Mythic tiers. The simple version is 1 mythic tier per 2 levels.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

This is weird. I got my shipping notice and pdf download August 16, with the shipping notice saying I would get it "within 4-8 days."

However, my tracking info showed that it didn't hit the processing center in Auburn, WA until August 23, 6 delivery days after I got the shipping notice. It's purportedly reached the local post office two days ago. Hopefully it's on our loading dock as I type this (I get shipments mailed to my workplace, which they are fortunately amenable to), but even if I get it today, it will have been 12 delivery days since the shipping notice. Seems an awfully long time for it to have left Washington.

Obviously the book should be in my hands soon so I'm not complaining, but I'm a bit puzzled by the process.

Quick question and I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but when a mythic spell targets other creatures when the original targeted only personal and the spell did not allow a saving throw, does the mythic version also not allow a saving throw?

Case in point: Time Stop

Normal version is personal where mythic targets multiple creatures (not just allies). If one of the creatures is an enemy, can the caster use mythic Time Stop to take enemy into one on one spell duel? If so, as written, there is no save or even spell resistance allowed (or appears that way).
amir90 wrote:


A little :)
At what level range is it recommend to use it? Right from the beginning of a new campaign (level 1 usually) or is it more balanced at higher levels?

I won't buy the book untill a couple of months (because of school), but this book seems to change enough of Pathfinder that I need to plan it out a bit, especially since I will combine it with Ultimate Campaign :P

It isn't really about a level range. Mythic is about a tone or style of the campaign. It makes the PCs, and the enemies, more fantastical in nature -- inspired by legends from various traditions and mythic cycles. PCs (and opponents) run faster, jump higher, survive dangers that would kill normal characters, and so on.

The challenge in describing all of this is that Pathfinder is already about playing characters inspired by myths and legends. Mythic rules "amp up" the over-the-top effects and turn the campaign more toward that aspect. One design goal, for example, was for Mythic PCs to be able to take on an AP with just 2 of them (instead of the assumed 4).

The GM controls when, or if, the PCs gain Mythic power, and when or if they gain more during the campaign.

Wrath of the Righteous is an entire AP with the Mythic rules "baked in". Because Mythic PCs can handle more normal encounters and face tougher ones than "regular" PCs, the AP is likely to go all the way to 20th level where most end at about 16th level.

So it is really about the style of game you want to run, and it *can* (though it does not have to) be about the entire campaign, not just a level range. There is no specific level range, because that would depend entirely on the adventures you want to write/run.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
tzizimine wrote:

Quick question and I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but when a mythic spell targets other creatures when the original targeted only personal and the spell did not allow a saving throw, does the mythic version also not allow a saving throw?

Case in point: Time Stop

Normal version is personal where mythic targets multiple creatures (not just allies). If one of the creatures is an enemy, can the caster use mythic Time Stop to take enemy into one on one spell duel? If so, as written, there is no save or even spell resistance allowed (or appears that way).

Good question. In case of the mythic version of Time Stop, there are no indications so far that you can't simply pull opponents into the Time Stop as well. Furthermore, since there seems to be no save against it, it appears as if you can pull whomever you like into it, be they mythic or not, as long as you are close enough. Sounds like a boss killer spell, if you can cut off his support like this.

This may be a FAQ candidate.

Hypothetical question. Say a rogue takes Trickster path and chooses right off the bat to take "Crafting Mastery" from Archmage using the "Path Dabbling". Said rogue also has a mountain of scrolls with required spells and is an awesome master of Use Magic Device. Can the rogue create magic items using the scrolls in place of preparing the spells herself and would her class level count as a caster level in loo of a real caster level?

No one thought to make a spell caster in our group so have a Rogue, a Fighter and a Gunslinger. Of course the GM /facepalmed when he saw our final line up but we were like no we're good lets go with this. So seeking an alternative for magic item creation :P
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You can't emulate a caster level with UMD for crafting magic items, unless I am mistaken. Which could well be, I'm sure someone will shortly arrive to educate us on the topic.

However, you can easily get a a full caster level by taking a trait which gives you a spell-like ability 1/day, which by itself is fully sufficient to take the magic item crafting feats which don't require you to actually know the spells you need to craft. Just max your Spellcraft and you should be fine.

I was under the impression you had to be able to cast the spell from your known spell list or prepare or something like that to make a magic item. Also figured since the "Crafting Mastery" circumvents the whole you need to have caster level ?? to take this feat, it would kinda circumvent the CL needed to make the item too.

Crafting Mastery does state that it assumes you have the item creation feats necessary. It doesn't say you need to meet the requirements to possess those item creation feats, so it would basically bypass any feat prerequisites.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You still need a caster level to craft magic items. If you have one, you can bypass the other requirements by adding a +5 to your spellcraft DC.

Are you sure? I'm skimming the item creation rules on the PFSRD right now, and I don't see much besides this:

Spoiler:
"Skill Check: Successfully creating a magic item requires a Spellcraft check with a DC equal to 10 + the item's caster levelerrata?. Alternatively, you can use an associated Craft or Profession skill to attempt this check instead, depending upon the item being crafted. See Magic Item Creation for more details on which Craft and Profession checks may be substituted in this manner. The DC of this check can increase if the crafter is rushed or does not meet all of the prerequisites. A failed check ruins the materials used, while a check that fails by 5 or more results in a cursed item."

"To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item's creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item.

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.

While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item."

Caster level is noted as a prerequisite for obtaining the item creation feats (and that the skill check DC increases if you don't have all the prereqs for creation), but Crafting Mastery bypasses that because it states that you are considered to possess any item creation feat necessary regardless (so it ignores prereqs). Similarly, the final creation is based on a skill check, not possession of a caster level (which could presumably be bypassed by adding +5 to the DC). The text even states (bolded emphasis above mine) that access to the spells via a magic item or another spellcaster is allowed.

Where is the text stating that possession of a caster level is a requirement to create magic items? Normally a prereq is the caster level of the creator, but if you're using a magic item to cast the spell then I don't see how that wouldn't qualify - it is made clear that a magic item can be used to create the item, and the CL and so on doesn't have to come directly from you. You can even use a completely different spellcaster.
The Exchange
Alleran wrote:

Are you sure? I'm skimming the item creation rules on the PFSRD right now, and I don't see much besides this:

** spoiler omitted **...

Check out the specific magic item creation feats though - each of them requires a caster level as a prerequisite. Since you have to have taken the appropriate feat to construct any type of magic item, you hence have to possess caster levels.

Well since you have to have the feat and "crafting Mastery" GIVES you access to all the feats even if you don't meet prereqs and if CL is listed as a prereq for each item specifically and you can still make the item by increasing DC by 5 per prereq you're missing....then a rogue with Crafting Mastery and a mountain of scrolls should be able to make magic items >.>? The noted rule specifically states ONLY mandatory thing is the feat and Crafting Mastery covers that.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lord Snow wrote:
Alleran wrote:

Are you sure? I'm skimming the item creation rules on the PFSRD right now, and I don't see much besides this:

** spoiler omitted **...

Check out the specific magic item creation feats though - each of them requires a caster level as a prerequisite. Since you have to have taken the appropriate feat to construct any type of magic item, you hence have to possess caster levels.

What he said.

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