HELP!!! How many hexes!

Ok, as a player, we are effectively going into the Varnhold module with 8 hexes claimed. We have taken a total of 28 monthly game turns, both at the table, and online during this overall adventure. (2 modules completed so far). Bad rolls initally, and being unfamiliar with the Kingdom rules in general slowed us down significantly in the early going. As a player, I would like to know how many hexes had been claimed at the start of the Varnhold module, by as many gm's and players as possible. It seems 8 is way below where we should be. I'm looking for an "upper end"...the MAX number of hexes any group has controlled at this point, and a "lower end", which is very likely my group currently. Also...do the modules specifically state how many hexes we should have claimed at any given point? Thanks!

There are guidelines in the AP. As a player, play. The GM should adjust the kingdom stuff for your play style. There is no reason to base your game on how others did it.

Ok, as a player, we are effectively going into the Varnhold module with 8 hexes claimed. We have taken a total of 28 monthly game turns, both at the table, and online during this overall adventure. (2 modules completed so far). Bad rolls initally, and being unfamiliar with the Kingdom rules in general slowed us down significantly in the early going. As a player, I would like to know how many hexes had been claimed at the start of the Varnhold module, by as many gm's and players as possible. It seems 8 is way below where we should be. I'm looking for an "upper end"...the MAX number of hexes any group has controlled at this point, and a "lower end", which is very likely my group currently. Also...do the modules specifically state how many hexes we should have claimed at any given point? Thanks!

That seems kinda low. I've just started the 2nd book but I let my players look at the building rules. They should be in double digits by the time I take them to Varnhold.

The first time I ran Kingmaker the players were at 5 hexes claimed when they started Varnhold Vanishing. They were being super cautious and only claimed a hex when they felt they needed to.

I wouldn't worry about it unless you have tons of unrest and very little income.

I recall that Book #2 mentioned that by the time it starts, players should have 40-50 hexes.

Which seemed ridiculously high.

I recall that Book #2 mentioned that by the time it starts, players should have 40-50 hexes.

Which seemed ridiculously high.

Not really if you want to add those hex to your kingdom --- just getting there should almost put you to around 40.

The PCs in my group entered VV at around 30 odd hexes.

The game I was playing in ended in the first half of book 2 due to the GM's wife having a baby. After 12 months we had 9 hexes. We were motivated to annex Olegton (done) and Tatzlford (had just claimed a bordering hex).

I am running a Kingmaker game now and based on what I remember from the old game we were probably 1/4 through book 2.

The book itself recommends having at the upper limit 50 hexes. My personal group had basically taken the entire of the first map before moving on, the idea being to have the whole place settled and dealt with before expanding onto a new map slot.

In all fairness though, its totally up to your groups play style. Its not the end of the world if you do only have 8 or 9 hexes, although that number does seem a little low to me personally.

The book itself recommends having at the upper limit 50 hexes. My personal group had basically taken the entire of the first map before moving on, the idea being to have the whole place settled and dealt with before expanding onto a new map slot.

In all fairness though, its totally up to your groups play style. Its not the end of the world if you do only have 8 or 9 hexes, although that number does seem a little low to me personally.

Me too!

My first group was smaller (only 2 players) and thus had less discussions and was very aggressive with kingdom building. I believe they had about 30-40 hexes when reaching Varnhold.

My second group is normal (4 players) and makes kingdom decisions by consensus. They had around 10-15 hexes when reaching Varnhold, but began expanding rapidly once they annexed the town.

The group I DM is in the 30's when they hit Varnhold Vanishing. They were at two cities (and planning a third). Post Varnhold they were close to 50 hexes.

Thing is, without giving too much away, your kingdom is going to need a certain level of economic output in order to effectively field military units (consumption costs are high). If your economy can't afford to field units, after a certain point you are going to get into some degree of difficulty.

Think about your economy. Think about fielding units to defend your realm and how you'll be paying for them. If your economy is lagging, you need to be a bit more aggressive. Also, there are set levels for what qualifies as a "Kingdom" (80+ hexes, if I recall) - perhaps in the eyes of other River Nations your realm isn't even on the radar until you get to a certain size.

Sometimes you just have to power through a year or two of "Kingdom building" between books. If that is kind of boring, try and do that out of game session.

My group took six months (in game) to go from 12 hexes to 13, and were about to go six more before expanding to 14 hexes when the perfect plot threads came together to chapter three.

Which led to some awesome role-playing & paranoia as they spent most of VV thinking they'd caused the vanishing and were desperately trying to find some way to get the people back while hiding they're (assumed) guilt.

I'm in the middle of VV now (ie haven't claimed their land just yet), and we have 45 hexes.

I'm in the middle of VV now (ie haven't claimed their land just yet), and we have 45 hexes.

So will you be around 60 when you do?

I was curious about this (before we start)... What were the writers going for? Do the players start claiming everything they land on (like a game of Monopoly), or do they clear a ton of hexes AND THEN start claiming a few specific hexes for their needs...

Ultradan

My group just finished RRR, and they're around 20 hexes I think, with 4 towns (capital at the fort, lost temple, Tatzylford, and just built a new one at the abandoned elven castle for the free castle). I plan on advancing the timeline by a few years before starting book 3, though, so that they'll be bigger. Certainly they can support the expansion - they only fail Econ/Stability checks on a 1 right now, I believe.

What did it look like at the beginning though...

Do PCs start claimming hexes the minute they leave the trading post, or do they wait for the book to finish to claim a few hexes within the many hexes they've explored.

Ultradan

At the beginning, they start at Oleg's Trading Post with a charter from Restov to explore an area of 30 hexes (6w x 5h).

After defeating the bandits (i.e. book 1), they will receive a 2nd charter to settle that area and more.

Then they can found a realm, which will need a capital town, which becomes their new realm's first hex.

Every other hex added to their realm will need to explored and cleared, AND will need to be ADJACENT to a hex that is already part of their realm.

The speed that their realm grows is dependant upon how fast they grow it.

What did it look like at the beginning though...

Do PCs start claimming hexes the minute they leave the trading post, or do they wait for the book to finish to claim a few hexes within the many hexes they've explored.

Ultradan

They can't claim anything when they first leave the trading post, because they have no BP at the start. It's not until the start of book 2 that they can claim their first hex, at which point they would almost certainly have explored a good chunk of the northern Greenbelt (as that's one of their goals in book 1).

My group expanded rapidly, realized they were in trouble, and then sat tight or expanded as the numbers allowed. Currently they have a rule that they won't expand if they can't make a economy or stability check on a roll of 5+ on the d20.

Our game is not the normal game, ie- we deviated quite a bit and only covered portions of book 2 and 3 with a bunch of other political stuff thrown in, but levelwise you can sort of follow along:

1st-3rd level - no kingdom
4th lvl - kingdom starts
6th lvl - end of Book 2. Our kingdom was 12 hexes.
7th-8th lvl - kingdom grew to 18 hexes and stayed that way for a looong time.
9th level - party annexed a neighboring town which allowed them to expand some, kingdom is now 40 hexes, edging over to the southern claim of Varn and the northern claim of Drelev.

How big you can grow depends a great deal on how much time your GM allows you to have before Book 3 begins. This can go anywhere from 6 months to 5 years depending. This is really the main determinant in how big you can grow. Also, the number of hexes is not everything in determining how strong your kingdom is. YOu can be small hexwise and yet have really solid economic and stability infrastructure in your settlements, which would allow you to expand out fairly rapidly when you are ready. This is what happened in our game, where they jumped from 21 hexes to 36 very quickly.

My players are heading for the nomens now and have claimed only 8 hexes. This is due mostly to their very cautious advamcement of the barony, annexing hexes only whem they think they have almost zero possibilty of having a negative outcome in their checks.
I am plannimg on having them contacted very soon by the guy who asked them to help found Tatzlford, wich they have ignored for the last six months or so, telling them he's started alteady ( or maybe the spymasters will..). Also, the possibility of adding Varnhold is goig to make them more interested in expanding, i think.
Another thing i could do is "forcing them into a year of kimgdom building before atarting part four.

Thanks guys... I was sort of confusing CLAIMED and CLEARED. I was going under the assumption that once you cleared a hex, it was then yours (i.e.: claimed).

I can visualize it much better now... ;)

Ultradan

I thought at first this thread was about the famous all witch/coven party claiming the stolen lands!!!

IMG, if my players didn't claim a particular hex within a few months of exploring it, there is a chance that somebody else will move in. For example, one hex was home to some fairies. My players cleaned it out and left the structure there. Then a group of Razmiran cultists moved in. Players cleared those out, but still didn't claim the territory. And now, the Kingdom of Pitax has established a claim there ...

Mine have been pretty cautious in claiming hexes, keeping the chance for failure on checks as low as possible. They left Varnhold to a vassal PC, and are probably going to leave Drelevgrad to the widowed Lady Dreleva (again, as a vassal).

Since I'm running in a different world, I require a one-day magical ceremony for each hex claimed, the ruler needs to be in the hex for the whole day. I didn't need to detail it, the players just accepted that at face value.