Mine had one of the red scarf like decorations broken off on the left side as well as one of the smaller horns :( -- The figure looks fantastic though, i just wish it had arrive in one piece. Unfortunately the broken pieces weren't in the packaging so i can't glue them back on.
Replacements go through the manufacturer, but they're pretty good about it.
When I went to the replacement page for WizKids they don't have any of the Shattered Star miniatures in the product drop down for replacements yet. Hopefully they'll get that updated soon.
I'm sure they will, they're really good about it from all accounts.
:)
Neither of my dragons were broken in any way. However, as I indicated in my earlier post on this thread, the left wing on one of my dragons doesn't fit as snug as it should. You could pick the dragon up without the wing falling off, but the wing will wobble a bit, and it would fall off if you turned the dragon over in any way.But as I said, I think I am just going to superglue the wing in.
Question to all, since you can technically unassemble these dragons, would you do so if transporting to your friends home, or where you would game? Or do you plan on keeping them together, even for transporting?
Just curious to see what others viewpoint is in regards to dissembling and reassembling them. I think they are really designed to be kept together in one piece.
I really do like the sculpt, but it feels like this is too small for a gargantuan.
I know plastic is more expensive these days, but I find a huge dragon that would be incapable of swallowing a medium figure whole a bit disconcerting.
It is a nice sculpt though, just wish the D&D icons didn't dwarf this model. The Rune Giant and Black Dragon seemed a bit on the small side too, but not nearly as much as this one.
A bit on the small side is stretching it. "Huge" Black Dragon is a Large Black Dragon on a huge base.
It's a wonderfuly crafted mini, no doubt about it, I just call it what it is, in terms of size.
I think it's be a pretty large large, but that's a fair assessment, agreed.
And Hobbun, I don't intent to ever disassemble mine, but I also have a http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S79847642/#/S09847645 shelving unit that I keep all minis in, so space isn't really a concern.
Really like that shelf, Lorian. My issue wouldn't be finding a shelf, but finding space to put it. If I had room for it, I probably would get something very similar.
My best option is in my closet, I keep my minis in tackle boxes, but it's not really what I would like.
I thought I had room for it the way it shows there, but the corner was too small, so I just put them all against one wall.
It covered a window, but it was small and didn't get much light anyhow.
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Shattered star has been added to the wizkids replacement site...BUT there appears to be NO blue dragon you can select - the rest are there, so other breakages would be OK. I hope they add the dragon - this seems to be a big issue in this set and a lack of replacement leaves me a little cold- since any ordr I make will have to risk long distance postage (no local supplier)
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Replacements go through the manufacturer, but they're pretty good about it.
Keep in mind too, all the reports I've heard were horns that popped off.
In many cases, a dab of superglue will fix that, so that might be worth thinking about.
I've said this elsewhere, but since it's been suggested here too, I'll say it again:
I am capable of fixing the broken horn on my figure. However, I don't feel that I should have to. No, I'm not lazy - I just think that if I'm spending $40 on something, it shouldn't be broken coming out of the box.
That said, I'm waiting patiently for WK to add the dragon to their site for replacement, and I'm trusting in all the stories I've heard about their great customer service.
@Feegle, yeah I definitely agree, when you buy something it should be in good shape.
I just wasn't sure how much repair experience you'd had and wasn't sure you'd want to wait on the replacement.
I've heard nothing but good things about their service too, I'm sure you'll be in good hands.
It's a bit of a concern - I hope wizkids have enough spares. I'm sure the standard minis will be replaced easy enough, but I wouldn't expect them to get that many additional premiums.
Do I understand this correctly, that using the WizKids site we generate labels to send our damaged figures back at our own expense (in contrast to, say, Amazon generating pre-paid labels for returns due to damage), and then wait 6-8 weeks to possibly receive the replacement (if there are supplies)?
Yes, this is how they do it. I wouldn't worry about "possibly" getting a replacement, since Shattered Star was JUST released it's certain that they will have the miniatures in stock.
Dear Paizo,
If you think I am going to blow 400 bucks on randomized minis just to be able to buy ONE "gargantuan" (which is actually sized as Large with a bigger base) blue dragon for 40 bucks, you are OUT OF YOUR TINY, GREEDY LITTLE MINDS!
I am going to ebay, and see if I can find a better deal. Already, I have seen one for far less than what YOU are offering it for, and based on the reviews I've seen here so far, I'm not entirely certain I want the thing. If it falls apart, or is a piece of junk, you can bet your salaries I won't be buying anything else from you, and I will warn others away. Just who did you commission to create this?
If it was some fly by night Chinese company, you should get your money back. They will not produce your products at a decent quality, because there are far too many Chinese companies that think nothing of quietly substituting inferior materials or otherwise cutting corners and putting out substandard product. I have read far too many cases in the news about this trait. I don't know why it happens, I just know it's happening and the Chinese govt is embarrassed.
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Piccolo,
Not sure why you are so upset. first, this is far from a piece of junk. Sure there have been some breakages in package but they are minor and can be replaced if need be via Wizkids (not paizo) This is a gorgeous piece and one that any one that likes and or even loves dragons should have.. it is worth every cent.
Second, paizo does NOT produce these... wizkids does. So your being angry at Paiso is not something that makes sense to me. Sorry. Telling others that they should not buy from them either is up to you but again misplaced.
Then why is Paizo offering said minis on this website?
And blowing 400 bucks on randomized minis just to be able to buy ONE 40 dollar mini is outrageous, hands down.
CEO
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Then why is Paizo offering said minis on this website?
We offer over 30,000 different gaming products from over 500 different companies on Paizo.com. On top of it all, these minis are licensed Pathfinder minis. Why wouldn't we offer them?
If the price is too high, then that is cool. Don't buy them. Not every product is made for every person or every budget.
Lisa
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Then why is Paizo offering said minis on this website?
And blowing 400 bucks on randomized minis just to be able to buy ONE 40 dollar mini is outrageous, hands down.
Blowing 400 dollars to get one miniature would be beyond outrageous. But Paizo is not the only site that sells these miniatures and you can buy the single Dragon on it's own without having to buy an entire case and spending the outrageous amounts that you are talking of.
Now keep in mind those sites probably will charge more for the single dragon instead of the promotional value that Paizo is selling it for.
Now as far as the affiliation with Paizo and these miniatures..
Lisa Stevens answered it nicely.
These are not for everyone nor is the budget... and frankly nothing is stopping you from going elsewhere. So why you are so upset I am not sure.
Then why is Paizo offering said minis on this website?
And blowing 400 bucks on randomized minis just to be able to buy ONE 40 dollar mini is outrageous, hands down.
I didn't spend $400 "just" to get the dragon (which is then $10, really). The $400 is for 128 cool, preprinted minis. If you don't want them you certainly shouldn't buy them. For many, the wizkids minis have been a welcome addition to the Paizo store.
Why should paizo only sell cheap things?
Simple: I've discovered that players want to target different minis, and can't keep them straight without differentiation.
Plus, randomized minis means you can't get the full set without spending lots and lots of dough, and having minis you can't use as they are duplicates. That is massively greedy.
Finally, having to buy 400 dollars of randomized minis so that I can buy ONE special mini is silly (and is apparently prone to being busted before you ever get it out of the box). At best. It is also massively greedy.
Poor form, kids. Very poor form.
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Simple: I've discovered that players want to target different minis, and can't keep them straight without differentiation.
Plus, randomized minis means you can't get the full set without spending lots and lots of dough, and having minis you can't use as they are duplicates. That is massively greedy.
Finally, having to buy 400 dollars of randomized minis so that I can buy ONE special mini is silly (and is apparently prone to being busted before you ever get it out of the box). At best. It is also massively greedy.
Poor form, kids. Very poor form.
Note to buy these same minis one of each without the 72 duplicates would cost $403.50 plus shipping (not counting the $40 for the dragon). So you're saving money by buying the $400 case and selling your duplicates on ebay, you'd be paying a total of around $260 for a set instead of $442 to get the set (including the dragon) as singles. As the rules say: "Cheap, Selection, and Quality. Pick Two"
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A few breakages does not make it "prone" to them. Out of ALL the Dragons sold this far (more then a thousand I am sure) less then 50 have been reported here as "broken". This is not even close to being prone.
Also when I bought an entire case I bought 128 mini's which is what I wanted including ALL the duplicates and yes I WANT duplicates as seldom do my players/characters encounter just "1" creature of type. Having many of them is usually a good thing!!!
If you want a full set then buying a case is the way to go. This one is pretty well done that if you purchase a case you will usually get a full set. OR you can do as others do and purchase them singly through this web site or another 3rd party web site that sells them. but this means you will not get near the duplicates and such that a person does with a full case.
Again this is not a greed thing Piccolo so I am not sure where you are getting that from. A company wants to make money sure but we as consumers also want to "collect" them so they need to be randomized too. This brings out the rarities and such to make them semi/very collectable.
Again not poor form... not at all. I wish you luck in your choice but coming on here and almost accusing a company that wants to make money greedy.. well that my friend is poor form as companies NEED to make money to pay their employees and (in the case of a publicly traded company) it's stock holders. That is not greed but good business form.
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Dear Paizo,
If you think I am going to blow 400 bucks on randomized minis just to be able to buy ONE "gargantuan" (which is actually sized as Large with a bigger base) blue dragon for 40 bucks, you are OUT OF YOUR TINY, GREEDY LITTLE MINDS!
I am going to ebay, and see if I can find a better deal. Already, I have seen one for far less than what YOU are offering it for, and based on the reviews I've seen here so far, I'm not entirely certain I want the thing. If it falls apart, or is a piece of junk, you can bet your salaries I won't be buying anything else from you, and I will warn others away. Just who did you commission to create this?
If it was some fly by night Chinese company, you should get your money back. They will not produce your products at a decent quality, because there are far too many Chinese companies that think nothing of quietly substituting inferior materials or otherwise cutting corners and putting out substandard product. I have read far too many cases in the news about this trait. I don't know why it happens, I just know it's happening and the Chinese govt is embarrassed.
This is an awesome post. Take a deep breath. Lower the blood pressure...
I bought my case through Miniature Market. I think I got the case + blue dragon + free shipping for $380. It's a little cheaper than Paizo (where I bought the Heroes & Monsters and Rise of the Runelords sets) and the service was fine.
I think Paizo has a policy against selling case incentives without the case until the following set comes out or some such. Basically, the only way to get the dragon from Paizo right now, but they'll have them available for single, non-case purchase sometime in the future. Or you can go ebay or something else if you want it without the case.
I mean, it's called a case incentive for a reason.
-Skeld
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I bought the Rune Giant at one local game store (for the same price Paizo were selling it for) because the store where I play Pathfinder on Sundays didn't have any to sell. Last Sunday that store owner gave me first refusal on the Blue Dragon they had just received. I didn't buy it, because I'd already bought one with the case order of Shattered Star miniatures my wife claims was her christmas present, but if I had chosen to do so it would have cost me about the same as it now costs from Paizo. (Note that the $10 price was only for pre-orders; buying the dragon now will cost you $40).
I see that eBay, and at least one of the online stores, are selling the dragon for about 50% more than that price.
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I see that eBay, and at least one of the online stores, are selling the dragon for about 50% more than that price.
There are times I want to buy up what my FLGS has for the Blue Dragon and sell them on Ebay for a profit!! :)
I have not because I do not think it would be fair for others that play PF there :)
Note to buy these same minis one of each without the 72 duplicates would cost $403.50 plus shipping (not counting the $40 for the dragon). So you're saving money by buying the $400 case and selling your duplicates on ebay, you'd be paying a total of around $260 for a set instead of $442 to get the set (including the dragon) as singles. As the rules say: "Cheap, Selection, and Quality. Pick Two"
One, I don't want all the minis. Just the non Medium size ones. As a DM, it's those that you can't substitute in with other minis.
Two, I don't want duplicates. And I don't want to have to sell duplicates on ebay to recoup some of the money I spent. I'm busy as it is.
Three, I hate randomized minis. It's a cheap stunt for a company to pull, something I expected from WotC but not from this bunch.
Four, I don't have 440 bucks to blow all willy nilly. It would take me 2 months minimum to save up that much after I'd spent on necessities. Obviously this company didn't get the concept that most gamers are not loaded, or this manipulation wouldn't exist.
This reminds me of the DVD industry practice of double and triple dipping. Disgustingly greedy behavior.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Piccolo,
One of the reasons you're getting blowback from folks here, other than your insulting tone, is that many people here have actually taken the time to learn why randomized minis are the only thing that allows WizKids to provide the diversity of miniatures that they do. They've been through this discussion before, and some of them even shared your point of view at one time.
It may not be obvious until you look into it, but the random element isn't about making it a broad, high-quality line of prepainted plastic minis more profitable—it's about making it possible.
The only feasible way to produce a decent-sized line of prepainted plastic fantasy miniatures is to do so by averaging out the higher costs of lower-demand (or more complicated) figures with lower costs of higher-demand (or less complicated) figures, and that means having variable rarities, and that means randomization.
If you're willing to educate yourself further, I'd suggest you start with this post, and many of the posts that follow it.
The choice is not "random" vs. "non-random"; it's "random" vs. "not doing it".
(Also, once we have those minis made, it becomes possible to justify sets that are less random and sets that are not random at all, and you'll see more of both in this line.)
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My concern is the long travel distance and time to Oz. See even a replacement is likely to get battered and bruised in transit, so I'm just trying to get an idea of the degree of problem that exists.
I'd be pretty concerned too if I was having stuff shipped to Oz. Travel by tornado must not be very gentle on the packaging.
One, I don't want all the minis. Just the non Medium size ones. As a DM, it's those that you can't substitute in with other minis.
Two, I don't want duplicates. And I don't want to have to sell duplicates on ebay to recoup some of the money I spent. I'm busy as it is.
Three, I hate randomized minis. It's a cheap stunt for a company to pull, something I expected from WotC but not from this bunch.
Four, I don't have 440 bucks to blow all willy nilly. It would take me 2 months minimum to save up that much after I'd spent on necessities. Obviously this company didn't get the concept that most gamers are not loaded, or this manipulation wouldn't exist.
This reminds me of the DVD industry practice of double and triple dipping. Disgustingly greedy behavior.
Sounds like you should buy the non-randomised sets and the singles. Luckily, the way things are set up now, people who dont want to buy randomised minis can get what they want whilst those who are interested in multiple copies of a wide spread of minis can get what we want too. It's worth noticing that the fact the sets are randomised ensures that the people who want to only buy visible minis piecemeal still get a wide selection.
The alternative is no minis - hard to see who wins there.
It may not be obvious until you look into it, but the random element isn't about making it a broad, high-quality line of prepainted plastic minis more profitable—it's about making it possible.
I've read explanations of this (including Lisa's that was linked to) before, and I still can't quite wrap my head around it. If web stores can buy randomized bricks from WizKids, open them all up, price and sell them individually and make a profit, why is it impossible for WizKids/Paizo to do so?
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It may not be obvious until you look into it, but the random element isn't about making it a broad, high-quality line of prepainted plastic minis more profitable—it's about making it possible.I've read explanations of this (including Lisa's that was linked to) before, and I still can't quite wrap my head around it. If web stores can buy randomized bricks from WizKids, open them all up, price and sell them individually and make a profit, why is it impossible for WizKids/Paizo to do so?
It is the randomization that sets the rarity and essentially the price of what those companies other then Wizkids to do so. Without the randomization the cost would sky rocket and make them a non-starter as no one would really buy them because they would be very very expensive.
It is a marketing thing. Without the randomization there is no rares, uncommons and commons to set the tone for what people might trade for and or buy them at. Believe it or not it is not JUST about profit (which is part of it) but viability too.It is a tough thing to comprehend but Vic is not stretching the truth by any means here.
Just so you know Paizo only okay's the sculpts and the artwork. They do NOT produce these miniatures Piccolo. Wizkids does. Comparing Paizo to WotC is not truly fair or warranted in my humble as it is, opinion.
It may not be obvious until you look into it, but the random element isn't about making it a broad, high-quality line of prepainted plastic minis more profitable—it's about making it possible.I've read explanations of this (including Lisa's that was linked to) before, and I still can't quite wrap my head around it. If web stores can buy randomized bricks from WizKids, open them all up, price and sell them individually and make a profit, why is it impossible for WizKids/Paizo to do so?
That is possible (and paizo do exactly that). What's necessary is that someone buy a case of randomised minis. If wizkids were to sell them via a fully visible model they'd never be able to offer the range they do. Compare with WotC's current releases of minis - nonrandom, but limited to a dozen every few months (and relying heavily on repaints of old sculpts).
Note that wizkids do offer the odd, non random set now - they are, in fact, catering to everyone. (piccolo's problem seems to be that he wants the best of both worlds - the certainty and ease of managing duplicates one gets from buying singles and also the low cost and broad range one gets from buying cases. People often say they're "sure" there's a way to do it - but not the people actually risking their capital).
For the record, I have NO problems with non-randomized minis. If I know what's in the box, and what it looks like, I am just peachy with buying quite a few.
If Wizkids offered the entire mini line in sets, and with accurate photos of each on the box, I would be happy to buy lots of beasties, particularly if they were arranged by theme (undead, Small characters, etc).
But this randomized crap? Heck no! I've done that before, and gotten severely burned. Got lucky and was able to trade them away, especially since I didn't care about rarity or relative monetary value. I just cared if I liked their look, and that I didn't have duplicates.
The best part is that they COULD be made relatively on demand. Say you release a given set (not individually packed, instead a series of groups of minis), and some of that set seems to sell out ASAP. Okay, you just send to the manufacturer for more. This has the added benefit of providing useful data as to what is popular. If a box (containing a set group of minis) doesn't sell, you haven't made that many anyway of that set, so you don't have to make more. In the future, the manufacturer now knows what sells, and what doesn't.
I really don't care about blowback. What I care about is honorable business tactics, because they determine what I buy. If I find out a company regularly screws over buyers by putting out shoddy product, I won't buy from them. I can even name companies I already do so with. Conversely, if I find something that impresses me, I am a loyal customer for years. No kidding. And I even talk up their stuff to my friends.
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It's certainly not that I don't believe it, I've read enough posts by people who know what they're talking about to acknowledge that it must be true. I just can't manage to understand it.
So, hypothetically, what if WizKids sold randomized cases, but only to vendors who immediately opened and sorted the figures. If those vendors priced and sold the minis individually, they would...what? Wind up with a bunch of figures no one wants and quickly sell out of the others? And if they tried to adjust prices to fit demand they'd still wind up with a glut of low priced unattractive minis and the prices on the popular ones would be sky-high? Is it fair to say that this business model essentially depends on getting people to buy minis they don't want?
It's certainly not that I don't believe it, I've read enough posts by people who know what they're talking about to acknowledge that it must be true. I just can't manage to understand it.
So, hypothetically, what if WizKids sold randomized cases, but only to vendors who immediately opened and sorted the figures. If those vendors priced and sold the minis individually, they would...what? Wind up with a bunch of figures no one wants and quickly sell out of the others? And if they tried to adjust prices to fit demand they'd still wind up with a glut of low priced unattractive minis and the prices on the popular ones would be sky-high? Is it fair to say that this business model essentially depends on getting people to buy minis they don't want?
That's not how I see it. i think it just relies on the existence of different markets.
People who want to pick and choose can do so - via the singles market or via the nonrandom sets which come out later. The downside is they have to pay more for the rare figures (if they can even get them).
Many of us though want multiple copies. When I buy 129 minis for $410 I regard it as a bargain (in fact I got two cases, it was that valuable to me). I may end up with more of one specific mini than I would have in a perfect world but I'm really paying for a broad selection and am buying in bulk to keep the unit price down.
This really is the best of both worlds - there's nonrandom, broad selection for those that want and cheaper, random options for those of us who like lots of minis including many duplicates. The only issue is a kind of jealousy if one crowd wants the benefits that the other cohort is receiving. You can't have everything.
Price perception gets messed around a bit since people look at the incentive figures and compare them to toys which are mass produced. I doubt they made more than a few thousand blue dragons - the fact they're so cheap is remarkable to me (even if superman figures of comparable size get sold for less).
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For the record, I have NO problems with non-randomized minis. If I know what's in the box, and what it looks like, I am just peachy with buying quite a few.
If Wizkids offered the entire mini line in sets, and with accurate photos of each on the box, I would be happy to buy lots of beasties, particularly if they were arranged by theme (undead, Small characters, etc).
But this randomized crap? Heck no! I've done that before, and gotten severely burned. Got lucky and was able to trade them away, especially since I didn't care about rarity or relative monetary value. I just cared if I liked their look, and that I didn't have duplicates.
The best part is that they COULD be made relatively on demand. Say you release a given set (not individually packed, instead a series of groups of minis), and some of that set seems to sell out ASAP. Okay, you just send to the manufacturer for more. This has the added benefit of providing useful data as to what is popular. If a box (containing a set group of minis) doesn't sell, you haven't made that many anyway of that set, so you don't have to make more. In the future, the manufacturer now knows what sells, and what doesn't.
I really don't care about blowback. What I care about is honorable business tactics, because they determine what I buy. If I find out a company regularly screws over buyers by putting out shoddy product, I won't buy from them. I can even name companies I already do so with. Conversely, if I find something that impresses me, I am a loyal customer for years. No kidding. And I even talk up their stuff to my friends.
I get it, you were screwed over by the other company that did prepainted plastic miniatures. When buying a case from them you are right you got screwed over because you got no where near a case on one purchase or even two case purchases. It was tough. Wizkids and Pathfinder miniatures is NOT like that. If you buy a case from them.. you might not get a set.. and I stress "might" not. This is a slim chance that you will not get a full set. If you did not get a set.. that means you might have to trade or buy a single mini or two on the outside. Of the three sets that are out and I bought a case of each.. I am missing ONE from the Rise of the Runelords set. This is amazing to me as in buying so many of the DDM minis that was not the case.
So if you want to get upset with Wizkids for something another company did and accuse them of a business practice that they are not doing. That is up to you. But keep in mind that is simply not the case. If you think that randomized miniatures is not fair.. then DO NOT BUY them. It really is THAT simple. I am sorry but the randomized set-up has been explained over and over. To my liking even. I bought and drank the Cool-aid and I keep drinking. If you choose not to.. that is on you. But for now, good luck in trying to convince them to change their mind. Meanwhile stop accusing Paizo of this.. they are not to blame. In my opinion nor is Wizkids.
So, hypothetically, what if WizKids sold randomized cases, but only to vendors who immediately opened and sorted the figures. If those vendors priced and sold the minis individually, they would...what? Wind up with a bunch of figures no one wants and quickly sell out of the others? And if they tried to adjust prices to fit demand they'd still wind up with a glut of low priced unattractive minis and the prices on the popular ones would be sky-high?
I think this would only happen if they screwed up the design of the set (and made figures nobody wanted or misjudged which ones to make common and which to make rare).
There's nothing to stop the scenario you outline - it's pretty much what happens in the real world, except we consumers (luckily) can also buy cases from the manufacturer (together with the incentive the retailer is entitled to and which paizo pass on to us subscribers (in the first instance).
Then what is it that would make the minis impossible if they were non-randomized? The price point would be too high to move the same kind of quantity?
I should mention that I'm not at all distressed by the current way of selling minis, I'm happy buying the handful of minis I want on the secondary market. I'm just curious about why it is the way it is.
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As I understand it, WizKids needs to sell a certain number of minis to get a return that makes production economically feasible. They can either sell a number of random minis at once or individual minis.
If they sell individual minis, they still need to sell a certain number of minis equal to the number they would set in a random boxes. And every mini someone decides they don't want is still costing WizKids the money for producing it, but now they need to sell a different mini that is also costing production money.
They can charge more for individual minis, but the more they charge, the less likely someone is to buy. Charge too much and they are actually losing sales. So it is very risky to the company as they have to deal with an unpredictable market.
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Then what is it that would make the minis impossible if they were non-randomized? The price point would be too high to move the same kind of quantity?
I should mention that I'm not at all distressed by the current way of selling minis, I'm happy buying the handful of minis I want on the secondary market. I'm just curious about why it is the way it is.
Well it's getting somewhat off topic for a product discussion thread, but I think the thread vic linked to is one if the more complete discussions I've seen. (Certainly its a more informed explanation than I could give).
In my mind, the salient point is that those who don't like randomised sets are being served just fine. I think it's useful to recognise that wizkids's model caters to both markets - those who like random figures and those who don't. You and I just need to find different avenues to suit our needs.
As someone who bought a case, ended up with extras he didn't want, and would have liked more of particular sculpts, I understand some of Piccolo's points. I just don't agree with them.
The case was a great value, I had all the minis I wanted and then some. I bought the Blue Dragon for an additional $10 (talk about value) and can now trade with my friends, sell my extras, or give them to my friends as I please.
I also have to say I was one who did not believe random "had" to be done. But Lisa's post helped me understand.