bigkilla |
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Since this is a Player Companion, I was really looking forward to this as a player. However, as a player I feel like that this book is just full of super specific options that I'm probably never going to use. So much of this books is spent on roles and traits for organizations that I just don't ever see PCs joining. There is just so much trouble involved with a PC joining one of these orders. That's why the knights that I have seen played are usually the knight-errant type with simple ties to certain areas, religions, or ideals.
But am I the only one he sees it that way? Unless you are playing in a really specific campaign, isn't it really disruptive when one player decides to become a Hellknight for instance? What does the rest of the party do while that person is training to become a Hellnight, is taking his Test, and then getting orders to carry out from his superiors. Do they just go along with the Hellnight? Or does the Hellnight order let its new initiates go "adventuring" with random people all the time?
And that brings up another point. Do you let 1st level characters call themselves Hellknights? Even though it says that they must face a life-or-death challenge vs a devil to become one? If not, then the only way to take any of those traits is via the Extra Traits feat, which pushes these traits even further away from ever being used.
I had other problems with this book as well. I mean, there is an entire page dedicated to saying that dwarven knights don't use mounts, wear heavy armor, and wield two handed weapons, while elves use light armor, bows, and majestic beasts. Nothing even remotely new there. And Squire grants you a cohort 2 levels earlier than leadership, but because he is 1st level he is in constant danger of being knocked out (or even outright killed) by a single CR appropriate AoE attack.
The only things I may use from this book are the Carry Companion spell, which is awesome; the Cavalier Orders, which are okay; and the Knightly Code Traits, which are finally Traits...
Honestly quite a lot of options are that way from most of the books IF you are running a AP. Now if you are running a homebrew game while just using Golarion as the setting that will open up a lot of the options.
Arnwyn |
bigkilla wrote:Actually, I don't think that can be right. The rules for the squire feat say that the squire needs to be at least three levels lower than the PC, which is impossible before 4th level (unless the squire is 0-level?Patrick Renie wrote:This.
Ah, good catch! The prerequisite character level for this feat should actually be 3rd, not 4th.
Indeed. It still doesn't make any sense.
What happened to the squire?
Patrick Renie |
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Wolfsnap wrote:bigkilla wrote:Actually, I don't think that can be right. The rules for the squire feat say that the squire needs to be at least three levels lower than the PC, which is impossible before 4th level (unless the squire is 0-level?Patrick Renie wrote:This.
Ah, good catch! The prerequisite character level for this feat should actually be 3rd, not 4th.Indeed. It still doesn't make any sense.
What happened to the squire?
Ah, sorry I missed this!
This feat should be available to 3rd-level characters. If I were to house-rule the discrepancies caused by making this change, I would say that the squire needs to be at least 2 levels lower than the PC if the PC gained the feat at 3rd level, then 3 levels lower when the PC reaches 4th level and thereafter.
Asphesteros |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Arnwyn wrote:Wolfsnap wrote:bigkilla wrote:Actually, I don't think that can be right. The rules for the squire feat say that the squire needs to be at least three levels lower than the PC, which is impossible before 4th level (unless the squire is 0-level?Patrick Renie wrote:This.
Ah, good catch! The prerequisite character level for this feat should actually be 3rd, not 4th.Indeed. It still doesn't make any sense.
What happened to the squire?
Ah, sorry I missed this!
This feat should be available to 3rd-level characters. If I were to house-rule the discrepancies caused by making this change, I would say that the squire needs to be at least 2 levels lower than the PC if the PC gained the feat at 3rd level, then 3 levels lower when the PC reaches 4th level and thereafter.
Another workaround to this, which doesn't make it full leadership for 3rd level, is to build the squire as a 1st level NPC class aristocrat or warrior, who then is rebuilt as a heroic class when the PC is 4th level.
Since NPC classes count at one power level less than PC classes(CR), that sorts out the math, and the transformation after getting some experience with the PC supports the concept of the squire being a knight in training.
Chris Lambertz |
Actually it's a printing error, my hard copy doesn't have target line but my PDF copy does. Take a look at Serren's Swift Girding and remove the target line and you'll see why I was so amazed it made it through editing.
I've done a backtrack of what occurred with the creation of this PDF and am thoroughly stumped. Would you mind sending in a screenshot? We do not create PDFs until after editing is completed.
graywulfe |
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:Actually it's a printing error, my hard copy doesn't have target line but my PDF copy does. Take a look at Serren's Swift Girding and remove the target line and you'll see why I was so amazed it made it through editing.I've done a backtrack of what occurred with the creation of this PDF and am thoroughly stumped. Would you mind sending in a screenshot? We do not create PDFs until after editing is completed.
I believe he is saying that his print copy is missing the line and that his PDF copy if fine.
I double checked my physical copy of the book and my copy is fine.
bishop083 |
I have a question regarding Serren's Swift Girding. The spell's Components line is as follows:
Components V, S, M (the armor to be worn)
Note: I added the italics myself.
My question is: Shouldn't that have been Focus instead of Material? Spells consume material components when the spells are cast, but that is not what happens here. Serren's Swift Girding doesn't consume the armor, it simply teleports it. And the same armor could be used as the focus for multiple castings of the spell, assuming the armor was empty at the time of each casting. That sounds a bit more like a spell focus rather than a material component.Patrick Renie Developer |
I have a question regarding Serren's Swift Girding. The spell's Components line is as follows:Quote:Components V, S, M (the armor to be worn)Note: I added the italics myself.
My question is: Shouldn't that have been Focus instead of Material? Spells consume material components when the spells are cast, but that is not what happens here. Serren's Swift Girding doesn't consume the armor, it simply teleports it. And the same armor could be used as the focus for multiple castings of the spell, assuming the armor was empty at the time of each casting. That sounds a bit more like a spell focus rather than a material component.
Yep, that's correct. This line of the spell stat block should have been "Components V, S, F (the armor to be worn)".
thunderspirit |
I loved the heraldic devices on the front cover. And I liked the fluff parts -- the anatomy of a knight, heraldry, religion tie-ins and orders. Great stuff for someone wanting to immerse his/her PC in knightly flavor.
Nothing wrong with the Squire archetypes and the roles; I like the idea of "those in this role often use X" for those who want to model their PCs like that.
However, my disappointment came from the 'meh' Cavalier orders and the significant lack of inclusion of something for mount/companion classes — in particular, for Cavaliers. With the title of the book being "Knights of the Inner Sea," I anticipated something like that and did not receive it.
Honestly, had I paged through this in the store rather than ordered it online, I don't think I'd've decided to purchase it. It marks the first time in memory I've been legitimately unhappy with a Paizo book.
That said, I've enjoyed the other two books I purchased at the same time as this one, so I'm hopeful this was an isolated incident for me.
Cheapy |
Since the Squire seems to be generating a lot of questions...If an archetype grants proficiency with all martial weapons, can a squire take levels in that? Lets say if a cleric got all martial weapon proficiency somehow. Or rather, what are these significant restrictions in place, to easier judge what the intent is given future archetypes?
Patrick Renie Developer |
Since the Squire seems to be generating a lot of questions...If an archetype grants proficiency with all martial weapons, can a squire take levels in that? Lets say if a cleric got all martial weapon proficiency somehow. Or rather, what are these significant restrictions in place, to easier judge what the intent is given future archetypes?
Yes. As long as the squire's class (including any archetypes) grants her proficiency with all martial weapons at 1st level, she can become a squire.
This restriction is meant to ensure that a character's squire can adequately aid the knight in combat, since most knights make use of a variety of weapons, many of which are martial. An appropriate analogy can be found in golf: after all, a caddy who lacks proficiency with all golf clubs is hardly of use to a golfer.
While the argument might be made that not all knights use martial weapons (such as spellcasting knights) and thus a squire needn't necessarily have such proficiency, this feat is designed for knights of a more traditional mien. Individual GMs may likely allow exceptions to this rule for character concepts that warrant such deviation, of course.
Patrick Renie Developer |
Does an Order of the Land cavalier qualify for the Nature Warden PrC?
Since the nature warden PrC calls for the wild empathy class feature, an Order of the Land cavalier couldn't become a nature warden without multiclassing. Additionally, although the Order of the Land cavalier's terrain training ability is similar to the favored terrain ability, they have different names; so RAW, that ability doesn't qualify for the prerequisite of the nature warden, though I think most GMs would find it reasonable to allow an exception in this case.
Zaister |
The spell keep watch on page 28 is listed simply as "School enchantment". This is at least missing the mind-affecting descriptor, and quite possibly it should have a subschool – I think it should be a compulsion.