Patrick,

What follows is a big pile of spoilers. Really. Go no further unless you truly want to be spoiled about "Way of the Wicked".

Sheesh, this has turned into quite the essay. Heh, maybe I should compile all these notes into an article for Book VI ("How the War was Lost").

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Patrick,

What follows is a big pile of spoilers. Really. Go no further unless you truly want to be spoiled about "Way of the Wicked".

** spoiler omitted **...

Or Book V if you've got the room.

Be sure to change "PCs" to "NPCs" in the first paragraph though. I'm sure the PCs are getting this info too, but only the NPCs are going to care.

Gary any idea when Paizo will get their books? Book 5 may be out before book 4 arrives. I know where I am ordering book 5.

PathfinderFan64,

As soon as the I get a definite date from the printer, I will make sure to relay it. A definite answer should not be that far away.

I apologize for how long all of this is taking. Thank you for your patience.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

This entire AP is perhaps one of the best campaigns I have ever seen. It is definitely on par in quality to any of the APs that Paizo has published. Gary your writing style is fantastic and fits my GMing style wonderfully. I cant wait to purchase the next two books in the series.

As far as the new character options they can always be implemented on back up characters because if you run some of the antagonists properly it is possible that a PC or two will kick the bucket.

I hope you guys will attempt a Chaotic Evil AP. This will be more challenging in keeping the players from PvP but perhaps that kind of thing can be encouraged at the end of the campaign when the story has been resolved and it is now a matter of deciding who gets to be the boss.

I remember the old 2nd Edition AD&D Menzo boxed set. A drow city rife with power struggles. I must say the drow thing has been over done. Don't get me wrong I used to love Salvatore's novels. However, the whole evil society thing might be an interesting campaign seed. If worst comes to worst fear of an even worse NPC is always a good way of keeping evil PCs from killing each other.

This has been an incredible read so far and much kudos to Gary and the fire mountain crew; I can't help but wince throughout, some of the turns are just so -vicious-. Personally, I would desperately love to have Hero Lab and d20pro supplemental materials eventually become available for the AP, as I would quite like to roll through it with my VTT group; as much as I dabbled with putting the maps through the software, not having player versions has slowed it down and made it fairly difficult.

Count me in as excited for what FMG works on next! :)

Mr. Crowley,

Hey, thanks for the kind words. Glad you're enjoying "Way of the Wicked".

A Chaotic Evil AP? That would be a challenge. The decision has largely been made for our next product. We're just getting our ducks in a row before we announce it. After Gencon for sure.

Remember the old Menzoberranzan box set? I own it! That is a big box full of trinkets, hand outs, posters and what not. I love the drow and would love to do something with them. But I agree, you must be careful to tread the same tired paths that have been tread before.

Regardless, thanks for supporting "Way of the Wicked".

Game on, my friend.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Gozuja,

Thanks for the kind words. We here at Fire Mountain Games really appreciate your feedback.

Hero Lab is something we're definitely going to do something with eventually but right now I remain focused on getting Book Five and Six out the door.

Glad to hear your excited about our future. We are as well! Announcements will happen likely before the end of this month.

Onwards to "The Devil My Only Master".

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Gary it is not your fault. No need to apologize. I was just wondering what had happened. I know this is the first time your print edition is listed here. I just assumed it would be shipped the same as the other place.

Gary it is not your fault. No need to apologize. I was just wondering what had happened. I know this is the first time your print edition is listed here. I just assumed it would be shipped the same as the other place.

Please note, we do not charge your credit card for preorders until the product actually ships. (We will, of course, authorize your card when you place your order, but that authorization will drop from your card in a few days, depending on your bank.)

Because it comes with a pdf it is charged when ordered. Not a big deal. I will just know better next time.

Or Book V if you've got the room.

I can definitely confirm now that this is not going to be in Book V. There is simply no room.

What will be in book five is four new archetypes written by Jason Bulmahn including The Hand of Tyranny, the Lord of Darkness, the Torture Master and the Unholy Barrister.

And other goodies.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

kevin_video wrote:

Or Book V if you've got the room.

I can definitely confirm now that this is not going to be in Book V. There is simply no room.

What will be in book five is four new archetypes written by Jason Bulmahn including The Hand of Tyranny, the Lord of Darkness, the Torture Master and the Unholy Barrister.

And other goodies.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Would you be able to tell us what each archetype would belong to (ie. paladin, rogue, fighter, etc)? Also, what's your prediction for street date release?

Would you be able to tell us what each archetype would belong to (ie. paladin, rogue, fighter, etc)? Also, what's your prediction for street date release?

Prediction for a street date is sometime middle of September.

The archetypes are:

The Hand of Tyranny (monk)
The Lord of Darkness (antipaladin)
The Torture Master (inquisitor)
The Unholy Barrister (cleric)

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

The Torture Master (inquisitor)

Really? I guess that makes some sense.

Oh damn, now you've got me considering taking inquisitor levels instead of rogue levels... Mi'Dre, Gaav Torture Master of Moloch *evil grins*

VoV! I've got a question! hehehe...

Mi'Dre,

It is a pretty cool archetype. Jason did a great job with these.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

kevin_video wrote:

Would you be able to tell us what each archetype would belong to (ie. paladin, rogue, fighter, etc)? Also, what's your prediction for street date release?

Prediction for a street date is sometime middle of September.

The archetypes are:

The Torture Master (inquisitor)

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Kind of odd to see that one, given that a character I made (in the hopes that I might get to use him someday if I can ever find a group) was a Hellspawn tiefling inquisitor intended to work as a torturer (among other things).

I'm eager to see just what the archetypes look like.

Erick,

I can't wait to publish them and see what everyone thinks of them. Book Five has archetypes and feat. Book Six has spells and magic items. Altogether they constitute a wonderful "toybox" full of evil goodies from Jason Bulmahn's mind.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

I have to say, I think I'm more excited about the 5th installment than any other.

Quick question will the archetypes have hero lab files? I am going to get it any way. Also nice job with the ap.

I'm loving reading book 4. I'm very excited about book 5.

I don't blame Gary or Fire Mountain Games, but I am kinda ticked off that I haven't yet received my print version of book 4. Since I bought it with the pdf, it's already been charged to my credit card, and I'm stuck in "waiting limbo". I hope the book comes soon.

I'll be ordering book 5 and 6 from rpgnow, not Paizo (and will be buying any other print on demand type books from them as well). (Which is sad, because I love Paizo).

Anyway, to Gary/FMG, keep up the great work!

My POD Version already arrived 5 days ago. :)
As nice a pdf is - I see them more as preview.

Still no word on the print edition?

Still no word on the print edition?

Where we're at. The printer has received the order and confirmed that payment has been received. The order is being worked on. A big pile of books will be shipped shortly straight to Paizo attention Liz Courts.

And I'm afraid I have no more specifics than that. And for that I apologize.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

PathfinderFan64 wrote:

Still no word on the print edition?

Where we're at. The printer has received the order and confirmed that payment has been received. The order is being worked on. A big pile of books will be shipped shortly straight to Paizo attention Liz Courts.

And I'm afraid I have no more specifics than that. And for that I apologize.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Woohoo! I get to built a fort!

An update. UPS is estimating arrival of books to Paizo on Wednesday, September 5th.

I apologize for the delay.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Gary, any news about Book 5 release date?

Luca

Gary, any news about Book 5 release date?

Luca

I can't speak for Gary, but I've looked at the release dates of the past 4 books, and each one takes about 9 weeks to complete. If that pattern holds book 5 would drop sometime in late September.

Hey Gary. You statted Markadian with a chain shirt +2. When I look at the picture of te king this ia NEVER anything less than full plate. Why the difference?

Hey Gary. You statted Markadian with a chain shirt +2. When I look at the picture of te king this ia NEVER anything less than full plate. Why the difference?

Hah! Good catch, Patrick. In one version of the outline the king arrived clothed in relatively light gear since he had been awoken in the middle of the night.

And then Mike did that absolutely beautiful art of the king in armor. And so, the story morphed to match the art. But not the stat block. Oops.

I'll make a note.

Thanks, Patrick.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Patrick Kropp wrote:

Hey Gary. You statted Markadian with a chain shirt +2. When I look at the picture of te king this ia NEVER anything less than full plate. Why the difference?

Hah! Good catch, Patrick. In one version of the outline the king arrived clothed in relatively light gear since he had been awoken in the middle of the night.

And then Mike did that absolutely beautiful art of the king in armor. And so, the story morphed to match the art. But not the stat block. Oops.

I'll make a note.

I think a note for the note you're making needs to have this added to it as well. Full plate is +9 armor with a +1 Dex bonus and -6 check penalty. The chain shirt is +4 armor with a +4 Dex bonus and -2 check penalty. Markadian V has Dex 18, but has enough armor training to compensate. However, even with all of that, and it being +2 to negate another -1 check penalty (which is what masterwork does), you're still going to have a -1 to all Str and Dex based attacks. That is unless you also made it out of mithral. He is the king, it would make sense for him to be wearing something that prestigious.

Gary is the time line for way of the wicked still the same or are the books push backed you mention that book 5 would be some time mid sept is there a more firm time line or is it still in the Air.

Perhaps we should use the cavalier more. If you do convert any major characters into cavaliers, please post them here. I'd love to take a look at them.

I think I'll remade the King as a Cavalier, or maybe a different kind of fighter. As it is writing it is a bit dissapointing for a CR 15 named NPC. He does like 1d8+7, which is close to what the prisoner knight did at the end of the tests in Book I. With +18 to hit and 1d8+7 damage, he is not that much of a threat for such an important NPC. I know he is not alone in the fight, but even then.

I like the idea he is a "sword and board" type of guy, but the damage is too low. 1d4+10 with the shield isn't that much better either, for a lvl 16 fighter ;/. As a cavalier, he might have the Challenge damage bonus, which is something to consider. The shielded fighter does not really give him anything interesting.

I think I'll redo him as a Two Weapon Fighter, rule that the shield is his second weapon, and get it done. The dodge bonus when using "two weapons" can make him to have high AC as well, and pose a much higher threat.

On a side note: why does he wear a chain shirt??? The picture (the AWESOME picture) clearly shows a full plate. A chain shirt is for a squire, he is a full knight. Will trade that for a (mithril?) full plate in my game.
EDIT: Nvm, I read the answer to this.

GREAT adventure! I hope we can get book V soon.

Gustavo,

I'd love to see your rewrite when you get it finished.

And thanks for the kind words. I'm glad to hear you are enjoying "Way of the Wicked".

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

*Whistles nervously, pressing f5 to see if WotW V is released yet.*

Oh, damn.

*Takes rations and water, realizing a few extra days pressing f5*

I think I'll remade the King as a Cavalier, or maybe a different kind of fighter. As it is writing it is a bit dissapointing for a CR 15 named NPC. He does like 1d8+7, which is close to what the prisoner knight did at the end of the tests in Book I. With +18 to hit and 1d8+7 damage, he is not that much of a threat for such an important NPC. I know he is not alone in the fight, but even then.

I like the idea he is a "sword and board" type of guy, but the damage is too low. 1d4+10 with the shield isn't that much better either, for a lvl 16 fighter ;/. As a cavalier, he might have the Challenge damage bonus, which is something to consider. The shielded fighter does not really give him anything interesting.

I think I'll redo him as a Two Weapon Fighter, rule that the shield is his second weapon, and get it done. The dodge bonus when using "two weapons" can make him to have high AC as well, and pose a much higher threat.

Here's what I did because I too felt he was underpowered. I cheated. There's a feat in the Overpowered book by Super Genius Games called Gestalt.

As for changing him out of shielded fighter to two-weapon, I wouldn't do that. The difference between what he is now and what you want to turn him into is his armor. If he's really supposed to have full plate, he'll have huge penalties. Normally those would slowly go away over time, but a two-weapon fighter gains dodge bonuses instead, replacing the armor training. However, if you wanted to, you could just increase the CR to 16 and give him a PC's wealth, enabling him access to mithral full plate, and the 3pp armor property, also from SGG, called Weightless, which would negate the rest of the penalties. It's +2 for heavy armor.

As for changing him out of shielded fighter to two-weapon, I wouldn't do that. The difference between what he is now and what you want to turn him into is his armor. If he's really supposed to have full plate, he'll have huge penalties. Normally those would slowly go away over time, but a two-weapon fighter gains dodge bonuses instead, replacing the armor training. However, if you wanted to, you could just increase the CR to 16 and give him a PC's wealth, enabling him access to mithral full plate, and the 3pp armor property, also from SGG, called Weightless, which...

My plan is to use TWF archetype, and rule he use his shield as his offhand weapon. Shields can benefit from Two Weapon Fighting feats too, and actually have weapon stats (for bashing).

So, instead of having shielded fighter archetype (which is plainly horrible), he'll have Two Weapon Fighter Archetype, but use a sword and shield.

So he'll have much better armor, damage, attack bonus and number of attack, without needing third party overpowered stuff that I don't own.

I haven't stated him fully yet (as we start to play in october, and I'll have more than enough time to do), but just using the Book V as a model, and swapping a couple feats (die hard, endurance, etc) for TWF related stuff, and changing the archetype, drop the Composite Crossbow and buy a Full plate of Mithril instead, he'll get

+4 dodge bonus when using two weapons (sword and shield, in his case)instead of +3
+3 hit and damage with both the sword and shield, instead of only with shield
Weapon Specialization and GWS for the sword.
Two extra attacks with shield.
The ability to make both sword and shield attacks as a standard action.

Changing Combat expertise for power attack, and using a Full Plate, you get AC 36 (40 when doing a full round) instead of 31 (41 with expertise), Att +22/17/12/7 instead of +18/13/8/3, and 1d8+21 instead of 1d8+7, and he'll have 2 extra attacks, at +21/16, which would do 1d4+12 or so, plus free bull rush.

As I said, 1d8+7 for a lvl 15 fighter king called The Brave is too low to pose a threat at level 16. That's what Sir Balin was doing back when players where level *two*

Adding Bashing to the shield should also increase it's damage, although I'm not sure if you'll have be able to do that with the NPC gear rules.

@ gustavo iglesias -- Gaining a +4 dodge bonus compared to +3 doesn't mean much when your Dex caps at 16 instead of 18 because your armor only gives you +3 Dex, even with mithral, because it's full plate. You still have the exact same AC. Why? Because TWF fighter doesn't have Armor Training. You also have a -4 armor check penalty to everything Str and Dex based on the full plate. If you could somehow increase the Dex by 1, then you'd be gaining.

I agree with JMD031. You should get a bashing shield.

I still say that giving him PC wealth will make things better in the long run. Namely giving him +5 weapons and shield. That'll help increase the damage a little bit too. And of course the CR increases by 1 as well.

You don't even have to bring in 3pp stuff. Bring in WotC 3.5 Magic Item Compendium. There's armor abilities and bracers or gauntlets that'll be of benefit to you.

@ gustavo iglesias -- Gaining a +4 dodge bonus compared to +3 doesn't mean much when your Dex caps at 16 instead of 18 because your armor only gives you +3 Dex, even with mithral, because it's full plate. You still have the exact same AC. Why? Because TWF fighter doesn't have Armor Training. You also have a -4 armor check penalty to everything Str and Dex based on the full plate. If you could somehow increase the Dex by 1, then you'd be gaining.

Well, that would be a point, if Shielded Fighters would have Armor Training. But they don't, they trade it to get Active Defense, so it's pointless. The only reason the original King Markadian can use his awesome Captain America dexterity, is because he uses a chain shirt. In Full plate, he can't. Even so, a full plate (specially if mithril) gives him better AC, so there's no reason to wear a chainshirt, other than the stat block being prepared for a "non-combat-ready" king. Trading 2 points of dex for 2 points of STR is a good idea anyways.

Having -4 armor check penalty is not something that bother me that much. A knight shouldn't be doing acrobatic jumps to go through threatened areas.

I agree with JMD031. You should get a bashing shield.

I still say that giving him PC wealth will make things better in the long run. Namely giving him +5 weapons and shield.

It also give the players a +5 sword and a +5 shield reward, which is more threasure than expected in the encounter. The Bashing shield is a good option, maybe can fit it somehow.

You don't even have to bring in 3pp stuff. Bring in WotC 3.5 Magic Item Compendium. There's armor abilities and bracers or gauntlets that'll be of benefit to you.

WotC is a third party publisher for Pathfinder. It is not for 3.5 D&D. I won't use 3.5 stuff in Pathfinder, for the same reasons I won't use 3.0 stuff in 3.5

WotC is a third party publisher for Pathfinder. It is not for 3.5 D&D. I won't use 3.5 stuff in Pathfinder, for the same reasons I won't use 3.0 stuff in 3.5

Yeah, but Pathfinder's 3.5 compatible, for the most part. Personally I use everything. Especially if it fits really well for story. And giving the PCs a little extra treasure never hurt anyone. I've already been doing that, and considering how many consumables they spend their gold on so they don't die (you tend to not get free healing from every town when you're evil), that's a big deal for them.

Yeah, but Pathfinder's 3.5 compatible,

3.0 is also compatible with 3.5. That does not mean it is particularly well balanced, though. One of the reasons I play pathfinder, instead of 3.5, is because it removes the sheer amount of bloated material that was published for 3.5, some (lot) of which is not my cup of tea. YMMV.

And giving the PCs a little extra treasure never hurt anyone. I've already been doing that, and considering how many consumables they spend their gold on so they don't die (you tend to not get free healing from every town when you're evil), that's a big deal for them.

Well, it might be a playstyle issue, but I don't think a +5 sword and +5 shield counts as "a bit extra treasure". I think it's perfectly possible to optimize King Markadian a little bit more than it is as writen (which is too low damage for CR 15), without giving away 75.000 extra gold. Again, YMMV, which is perfectly fine.

Well, it might be a playstyle issue, but I don't think a +5 sword and +5 shield counts as "a bit extra treasure". I think it's perfectly possible to optimize King Markadian a little bit more than it is as writen (which is too low damage for CR 15), without giving away 75.000 extra gold. Again, YMMV, which is perfectly fine.

There's always ways around it. Namely tomes. Markadian has low Strength? Give him a Manual of Gainful Exercise +5 for 137,500 and a Manual of Bodily Health +4 for 110,000. This leaves 9000 gold to play with. He's a higher CR and he's got wealth that PCs will never be able to get. I know of DMs who have done that to me and my group a few times in their games.

There's always ways around it. Namely tomes. Markadian has low Strength? Give him a Manual of Gainful Exercise +5 for 137,500 and a Manual of Bodily Health +4 for 110,000. This leaves 9000 gold to play with. He's a higher CR and he's got wealth that PCs will never be able to get. I know of DMs who have done that to me and my group a few times in their games.

Sure, there are ways around. But why the effort? You could get nearly the same with less effort just by optimizing him a bit. There's a 99% chance he does not really need a composite bow. He can live easily with slightly less DEX (he is not going to use it anyways, as mithril full plate max dex bonus is +3). He can use a full plate. He can use any other archetype instead of the horribly underpowered shielded fighter, which gives him practically nothing while wearing fullplate. He can pump a little bit less CON and a little bit more STR, as any PC fighter does. He can choose better feats.

That alone will pump him into a capable threat. Remember that he does not fight alone, also. I don't want to pump him too much, or then I'll need to pump the PC ability too, and therefore the NPC ability so they keep the pace, and so on, in a perpetual weapon development inflation. A fight were everybody has a knife is more interesting than a fight were everybody has a nuclear missile, IMHO.

*Whistles nervously, pressing f5 to see if WotW V is released yet.*

Oh, damn.

*Takes rations and water, realizing a few extra days pressing f5*

My combat rations have extra chocolates. Anybody want an exchange.

Gary ! I have your little puppy taken as hostage. My conditions for release are simple. You release the book V and I release your puppy.

Don't do anything silly, don't call the police and everything will be fine. Remember that we are Wicked ...

*Whistles nervously, pressing f5 to see if WotW V is released yet.*

Oh, damn.

*Takes rations and water, realizing a few extra days pressing f5*

Veteran Kickstarter?

I'd say we still have another week or so before book 5. Would be happy to be wrong of course.

EDIT

Gary posted on the WotW Facebook page that book 5 was "very soon to be finished." So that's good.

We are working relentlessly, vigilantly, tirelessly to get this book done as soon as possible. And as soon as I'm happy with it, we will release it.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

I'm so anxious to get it soon, as hoping it is as good as the other IV. So forget about us and keep the good work. When you think it's ok, it'll be ok.

I have more than enough material to start in October anyway. I was just hoping to show my players the Lord of Darkness archetype, as one of them is going to be Antipaladin. I can retcon whatever ability it has, as a last resort action.