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Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Paths of Prestige

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Paths of Prestige
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While many legendary heroes of Golarion fit easily into the core classes of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game—the sword-swinging fighters, fireball-flinging wizards, backstabbing rogues, and others—there are some who specialize in unique styles and techniques, perfectly customizing themselves for their roles. For these characters, there are prestige classes. From the undead-hunting Knights of Ozem to the revolutionary Gray Gardeners of Galt, this book collects 30 of the most prominent faiths and factions from around the Inner Sea and transforms them into prestige classes designed to help you take advantage of the tricks and tactics of some of Golarion’s most famous (and infamous) groups, all while rooting your character firmly in the lore and societies of the Pathfinder campaign setting.

    Within this 64-page book, you’ll find new prestige class options for every character class in the Pathfinder RPG, including:
  • The Aldori swordlord, world-renowned dueling master of the turbulent north.
  • The Hellknight signifer, an armored spellcaster who uses magic to pursue the perfect, iron-fisted law of Hell.
  • The gun-toting shieldmarshal, whose bright badge brings order to the chaos of the Mana Wastes.
  • The mammoth rider, savage megafauna cavalry expert.
  • The Sleepless detective, uniquely suited to solving mysteries both magical and mundane in haunted Ustalav.
  • The winter witch, whose ice magic keeps a whole nation in thrall.
  • ...and 24 more!

Paths of Prestige is intended for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and the Pathfinder campaign setting, but can easily be used in any fantasy game setting.

By Benjamin Bruck, Jason Bulmahn, Matt Goodall, and Jason Nelson

September 13, 2012 The Winter Witch prestige class has been updated and is available for download. (1.2MB zip/PDF)

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-451-1

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscription.

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Non-Mint: This product is non-mint. Refunds are not available for non-mint products. The standard version of this product can be found here.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at webmaster@paizo.com.

PZO9249


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Product Discussion (817)
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2 people marked this as a favorite.
DemonSword wrote:

LISA STEVENS: We were aware of that, but as we noticed when my friend got his PDF was how super heavy it really is concerning it being campaign specific to Golarion. We saw a post made by one of your staff saying they did try to make the prestige classes work in a way so that they could fit in other settings but I guess that was just a false hope.

But what you said didn't relieve our number one concern; will we ever see more prestige classes for the RPG line ever again or is Advanced Player's Guide all we're ever going to get? It's been way too long, if you ask me.

We were extremely desperate for more prestige classes from the Paizo Pathfinder line and thought this would ease our impatience but we were wrong.

To echo someone above (Enlight_Bystand, I believe) and others from before, many (though I'm sure not all) of the authors and staff at Paizo believe that most PrCs should be tied to world-specific elements and organizations. That's what makes them "prestigious". Generic shifts from the base classes are mostly covered by the Archetype system. That's not to say all PrCs are setting-specific and that's why we have the ones from the CRB and the APG. I'm sure at some point they will release more PrCs that are more generic and we'll see those presented in the hardcover rules line.

With all that being said, there is nothing preventing you from re-skinning many of these for your home game. Need an assassin that specializes in poison, the Daggermark Poisoner is for you, just throw out all the Daggermark stuff. Same with the rest.

Cheers,
Tony


DM Wellard wrote:
Robert Jordan wrote:
I re read Winter Witchcraft and the line of gaining those hexes "in addition to those gained from normal advancement".

Defiitely Agree as the second interpretation of the rule was what I went with..'in addition to' does NOT mean 'instead off' at least not in the English I was taught.

Wait.. .go back to the book, or to the section you quoted from it earlier.

I agree that the wording could be clearer in the "Winter Witchcraft" ability, but to be fair, it does not say 'in addition to' there.

The "in addition to" is in a separate ability named "Bonus Hexes". So "Winter Witchcraft", the part where it talks about Winter Witch class levels stacking with "regular" Witch levels, only mentions some specific aspects of the Witch's class abilities.

It seems like people are conflating the two SEPARATE class features and "cherry picking" some words from each to build the argument that it implies you get both. Since I don't think anyone is doing that deliberately, I would suggest that those who have the book go back and read carefully before responding.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Urath DM wrote:

Wait.. .go back to the book, or to the section you quoted from it earlier.

I agree that the wording could be clearer in the "Winter Witchcraft" ability, but to be fair, it does not say 'in addition to' there.

The "in addition to" is in a separate ability named "Bonus Hexes". So "Winter Witchcraft", the part where it talks about Winter Witch class levels stacking with "regular" Witch levels, only mentions some specific aspects of the Witch's class abilities.

It seems like people are conflating the two SEPARATE class features and "cherry picking" some words from each to build the argument that it implies you get both. Since I don't think anyone is doing that deliberately, I would suggest that those who have the book go back and read carefully before responding.

yes but the key part to me is this.

Paths of Prestige wrote:
Bonus Hexes: At 5th level and every two levels thereafter, a winter witch gains the following major hexes in addition to those gained from normal advancement

To me that seems pretty clear they gain hexes from normal advancement. I honestly don't see how it could read differently. *shrug*

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Urath DM wrote:

Wait.. .go back to the book, or to the section you quoted from it earlier.

I agree that the wording could be clearer in the "Winter Witchcraft" ability, but to be fair, it does not say 'in addition to' there.

The "in addition to" is in a separate ability named "Bonus Hexes". So "Winter Witchcraft", the part where it talks about Winter Witch class levels stacking with "regular" Witch levels, only mentions some specific aspects of the Witch's class abilities.

It seems like people are conflating the two SEPARATE class features and "cherry picking" some words from each to build the argument that it implies you get both. Since I don't think anyone is doing that deliberately, I would suggest that those who have the book go back and read carefully before responding.

By golly, he's right.

I was confused because I was taking the messageboard comments at face value..

..and I believe everyone posted in good faith, so there's no accusation or insinuation intended...

...but if you read the actual text more closely, it's not that ambiguous.

There is still the question of whether it's wise to take the minor hexes away, but I think the actual intent is clear. As to the answer to that question—I abstain. But I am definitely curious.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Dark_Mistress wrote:

yes but the key part to me is this.

Paths of Prestige wrote:
Bonus Hexes: At 5th level and every two levels thereafter, a winter witch gains the following major hexes in addition to those gained from normal advancement
To me that seems pretty clear they gain hexes from normal advancement. I honestly don't see how it could read differently. *shrug*

Emphasis mine. They call out major hexes specifically.

I'm not saying I agree with that as a rule, I'm just speaking to the intent of the author.

I'm bowing out of an online debate though, other than my interest in whether there is any change.

Minor opinion:

Spoiler:
I favor them still getting minor hexes, but that is neither here nor there. It's because I think winter witches are super sexy, and that's not exactly an argument winner. :D

Osirion RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

1 person marked this as a favorite.
DM Wellard wrote:
Robert Jordan wrote:

I think the Winter Witch is an excellent FAQ candidate as I can see either interpretation, but I personally took it to be the former of they still gain hexes as they go up in the Prestige Class. I can understand Jason's interpretation as well as that was my initial gut reaction of "oh that's obviously not right they don't still get hexes do they?" then I re read Winter Witchcraft and the line of gaining those hexes "in addition to those gained from normal advancement". The reason why I assume they still gained hexes is that IMO once you start a prestige class people typically continue in it and don't really bounce back and forth between their first class and the prestige class. That may just be my table.

Also I read your response Jason assuming you didn't write the Winter Witch entry. If you did ignore my response as ramblings of an addled brain.

Though in 3.5 there was many a cherry picking.

Defiitely Agree as the second interpretation of the rule was what I went with..'in addition to' does NOT mean 'instead off' at least not in the English I was taught.

Off course if Jason actually wrote the Class then I'll bow to his intent.

But frankly to produce a PRC that only witches can qualify for and then use it to underpower those same witches seems..pointless. I mean aren't the Winter Witches of Irresen supposed to be the apogee of the Character Class?

I didn't write the class, so I claim no authorial insight on the RAI. I do, however, find it odd that you were posting upthread about how this was a no-brainer, no-downside, too-strong PrC using the interpretation that it gets regular hex advancement plus bonus hexes, but now if it doesn't get regular hex advancement plus bonus hexes it's UNDERpowered?

Is there no middle ground here?

FWIW, I don't think reading the text as "it doesn't say you get hex advancement, so you don't" is even that serious of a power-down. Why? Because you lose a total of 5 hexes vs. a regular witch, some of which will likely be minor hexes, and instead you get 3 MAJOR hexes that are always major. True, they are preselected, but they are all pretty good. So, assuming you started the class at 6th level, you're really only losing 2 minor hexes and a caster level vs. a regular witch, and in exchange you get all of the juicy yum-yums the PrC has to offer plus all of the witch abilities you have keep getting better.

YMMV


Dark_Mistress wrote:
Urath DM wrote:

Wait.. .go back to the book, or to the section you quoted from it earlier.

I agree that the wording could be clearer in the "Winter Witchcraft" ability, but to be fair, it does not say 'in addition to' there.

The "in addition to" is in a separate ability named "Bonus Hexes". So "Winter Witchcraft", the part where it talks about Winter Witch class levels stacking with "regular" Witch levels, only mentions some specific aspects of the Witch's class abilities.

It seems like people are conflating the two SEPARATE class features and "cherry picking" some words from each to build the argument that it implies you get both. Since I don't think anyone is doing that deliberately, I would suggest that those who have the book go back and read carefully before responding.

yes but the key part to me is this.

Paths of Prestige wrote:
Bonus Hexes: At 5th level and every two levels thereafter, a winter witch gains the following major hexes in addition to those gained from normal advancement
To me that seems pretty clear they gain hexes from normal advancement. I honestly don't see how it could read differently. *shrug*

I would agree that this particular phrase is is poorly worded. However, since "Bonus Hexes" is not the same ability as "Winter Witchcraft", and "Winter Witchcraft" is the one that talks about the levels stacking for some abilties, and minor hexes is NOT mentioned there... then the only progression it can be referring to is that of the Winter Witch class, which gets none.

So while it resolves to "you get only the Bonus Hexes specified", it does so in a logically convoluted manner based on how it was phrased.

What I am cautioning people on is taking a few copied sentences from the class (like, 2% of the text) out of context, and inadvertently combining them inappropriately.


Jim Groves wrote:


I was confused because I was taking the messageboard comments at face value..

Yep.. that's the thing I want to head off. The issue people are starting to get concerned over is not 100% accurate as it is thought to be.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Mr. Nelson I reread my post and a sentence I have in there comes off a little rude depending on how you read internet voice. I wanted to apologize if it came off that way as I'm a fan of yours and I was just curious if your opinions on how it should work was coming from writing it or as a fellow player like us non contributors. So again I apologize if it came off as rude. ALSO which ones did you write for this book if any out of curiosity.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Can someone list the Pre Reqs for the Mammoth Lord?

BAB+6

Handle Animal: 9
Ride: 9
Survival: 5
Animal Companion or Mount equivalent to 6th level Druid
Thank you. There are no racial or even region requirements then?

I do not have the book, so do not take this as law, but it seems to me there are no racial or geographical requirements for any of the PrCs. I think they wanted to allow people to add them into their games as they deemed appropriate and leave it up to the GM to be the arbitrator.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Timothy Hanson wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Can someone list the Pre Reqs for the Mammoth Lord?

BAB+6

Handle Animal: 9
Ride: 9
Survival: 5
Animal Companion or Mount equivalent to 6th level Druid
Thank you. There are no racial or even region requirements then?
I do not have the book, so do not take this as law, but it seems to me there are no racial or geographical requirements for any of the PrCs. I think they wanted to allow people to add them into their games as they deemed appropriate and leave it up to the GM to be the arbitrator.

Well, there's one that requires elf or half-elf (Lantern Bearer) and one that requires Dwarf (Skyseeker)

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Mechalibur wrote:
Timothy Hanson wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Can someone list the Pre Reqs for the Mammoth Lord?

BAB+6

Handle Animal: 9
Ride: 9
Survival: 5
Animal Companion or Mount equivalent to 6th level Druid
Thank you. There are no racial or even region requirements then?
I do not have the book, so do not take this as law, but it seems to me there are no racial or geographical requirements for any of the PrCs. I think they wanted to allow people to add them into their games as they deemed appropriate and leave it up to the GM to be the arbitrator.
Well, there's one that requires elf or half-elf (Lantern Bearer) and one that requires Dwarf (Skyseeker)

Although other races can get in to the Dwarf one, they just have to be raised by Dwarves (and take the adopted trait)

Osirion RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Robert Jordan wrote:
Mr. Nelson I reread my post and a sentence I have in there comes off a little rude depending on how you read internet voice. I wanted to apologize if it came off that way as I'm a fan of yours and I was just curious if your opinions on how it should work was coming from writing it or as a fellow player like us non contributors. So again I apologize if it came off as rude. ALSO which ones did you write for this book if any out of curiosity.

No worries. The ones I wrote were, if memory serves:

Aldori Swordlord
Arclord of Nex
Aspis Agent
Blackfire Adept
Daggermark Poisoner
Dawnflower Dissident
Riftwarden
Shieldmarshal

and I think two others that escape me at the moment. I listed them either upthread here or in the other thread about Paths of Prestige.


Timothy Hanson wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
Can someone list the Pre Reqs for the Mammoth Lord?

BAB+6

Handle Animal: 9
Ride: 9
Survival: 5
Animal Companion or Mount equivalent to 6th level Druid
Thank you. There are no racial or even region requirements then?
I do not have the book, so do not take this as law, but it seems to me there are no racial or geographical requirements for any of the PrCs. I think they wanted to allow people to add them into their games as they deemed appropriate and leave it up to the GM to be the arbitrator.

Great! Thanks so much!

Andoran

I actually cannot wait for the 16th right now. I run a homebrew campaign setting and already I have ideas of how to reskin and place some of these into my world. Some of my players will be very very happy

I have a Winter Witch who is looking forward to looking at the PrC
I have a Druid who will probably love the Green Faith Acolyte from the sounds of it.
I also have a noble character who will enjoy the noble scion in here.
I also have someone set on using poisons anyway he can in the game so he will adore the Daggermark Poisoner.

When I play I'll be torn between Tattooed Mystic, the Arcanist, and the Mammoth Rider.

I truly enjoy tossing my players things to use as tidbits to enhance their concepts and these Prestige Classes will be terrific for all of them. The only sad thing is I have game on Tuesday so they will have to wait an addition week to review these, but it will give me time to be ready with what is not making it into my campaign or where you have to go or be from to gain access if needed.

Andoran

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dark_Mistress wrote:

yes but the key part to me is this.

Paths of Prestige wrote:
Bonus Hexes: At 5th level and every two levels thereafter, a winter witch gains the following major hexes in addition to those gained from normal advancement
To me that seems pretty clear they gain hexes from normal advancement. I honestly don't see how it could read differently. *shrug*

Um, but people don't get hexes from normal advancement unless they are advancing as a witch. Which this isn't. So you get the hexes you have from advancing as a witch, and then you get the hexes that you get from the Bonus Hexes class ability.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
Flamehawke wrote:

I actually cannot wait for the 16th right now. I run a homebrew campaign setting and already I have ideas of how to reskin and place some of these into my world. Some of my players will be very very happy

I think you'll be quite pleased. I also think you'll find the reskinning to be a simple matter. Honestly, there are only a few classes here that are so tightly bound to Golarion that it might be difficult to do so. The Dawnflower Dissident, Gray Gardener, and Razmiran Priest are the ones that would give me pause. All the others though? I think you can use them right out of the box in almost any campaign.


I don't have the book, so I'm guessing here... but could the Winter Witch mean the listed bonus hexes are added to the list of options? So she gets all the normal options, plus those added by the prestige class, but not at the normal rate? Am I clear? She doesn't get a normal advancement, but she does get *some* hexes, which include those on the witch list (the "normal advancement" reference) PLUS those on the winter witch list.


James Jacobs wrote:

Re Winter Witch

This prestige class does indeed have some unclear wording. We're working on a solution to clear things up, but it might take a bit to get that solution out.

In the meantime... all you GMs out there should consider taking the more favorable to the prestige class's power when making judgement calls on how something works. It's not supposed to or intended to make the base witch less powerful overall; that's not what a prestige class is supposed to do.

Thank You James.

@Jason Nelson..I too am sorry if I came across as rude..and will worship your name for ever more just for the Aldori Swordlord.


Kvantum wrote:
dunebugg wrote:
Sorry if somebody has already posted, but what exactly does the Champion of Irori advance from the 2 classes? This is essentially the exact character I've been waiting to play for ages.

Monk AC bonus, flurry of blows, stunning fist, and unarmed strike damage, as well as Smite Evil damage. Also, half class level to your Ki pool and to all Knowledge checks (round down), all good saves, and the ability to, at 8th level, as a standard action, make a single unarmed strike as a melee touch attack.

On top of a whole bunch of other abilities. They might not have done much for Monks in terms of gear in Ultimate Equipment, but this book sure gave the Monk-adin multiclass a big boost.

Does the Paladins Lay on Hands also get upgraded, and other then the aforementioned "Whirlwind Smite" are there any other interesting abilities that would make it worth while to take?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
A Ninja wrote:

Does the Paladins Lay on Hands also get upgraded, and other then the aforementioned "Whirlwind Smite" are there any other interesting abilities that would make it worth while to take?

Yes, his Champion of Irori levels stack with paladin levels for lay on hands. Further, he can spend ki points to activate the ability. As to your second question, yes and lots - smite chaos, an ability similar to bardic knowledge, an AC boost when he's alone and faced by more than one enemy, the ability to make one unarmed attack/round as a touch attack (!), and a few others.

For those interested in monks, the Brother of the Seal is also worth looking at. He gains a few abilities to interact with doors/glyphs/runes, but far cooler, can use the Awesome Blow feat (usually reserved for very large monsters). At higher levels he gains powers like domino strike (damages enemies subject to awesome blow), rapid slam (use awesome blow as part of a flurry of blows), and cascading strike (knock enemies into each other).


Generic Villain wrote:
Yes, his Champion of Irori levels stack with paladin levels for lay on hands. Further, he can spend ki points to activate the ability. As to your second question, yes and lots - smite chaos, an ability similar to bardic knowledge, an AC boost when he's alone and faced by more than one enemy, the ability to make one unarmed attack/round as a touch attack (!), and a few others.

Whoa, Smites on a touch attack, that's pretty impressive!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
A Ninja wrote:
Whoa, Smites on a touch attack, that's pretty impressive!

And considering he can smite both evil and chaos, there's like a 65% chance any enemy he faces could be subject to it. The only alignments he can't smite are LG, LN, NG, and N. As some have pointed out the CoI's code of conduct is slightly more strict than an average paladin's, but not by much.


Generic Villain wrote:
And considering he can smite both evil and chaos, there's like a 65% chance any enemy he faces could be subject to it. The only alignments he can't smite are LG, LN, NG, and N. As some have pointed out the CoI's code of conduct is slightly more strict than an average paladin's, but not by much.

What kinda Code differentiation are we talking here?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
A Ninja wrote:
What kinda Code differentiation are we talking here?

The biggest prohibition is that he can't have any followers, including class-granted ones like mount, animal companion, or familiar. In other words if you're a 5th-level paladin before taking this class, take the weapon divine bond instead of a mount. He also can't incur debts or give loans to others, but can freely give wealth to those in need. There's a vague requirement that he avoid situations that would keep him from pursuing perfection.


Derek Vande Brake wrote:
I don't have the book, so I'm guessing here... but could the Winter Witch mean the listed bonus hexes are added to the list of options? So she gets all the normal options, plus those added by the prestige class, but not at the normal rate? Am I clear? She doesn't get a normal advancement, but she does get *some* hexes, which include those on the witch list (the "normal advancement" reference) PLUS those on the winter witch list.

No.

The "Bonus Hexes" ability says, essentially, 'You get these three specific Hexes in this order at 5th, 7th, and 9th level. If she already has that hex, she can select any Hex she qualifies for.'

Presumably, she could be taking "regular" Witch levels between levels of Winter Witch, for the Hex advancement if nothing else. So she *could* have already selected Ice Tomb before it is granted at 5th Winter Witch level, for example. Two of the three are from Ultimate Magic, and are already available (and thematically appropriate) options for the Winter Witch, anyway.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

DM Wellard wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Re Winter Witch

This prestige class does indeed have some unclear wording. We're working on a solution to clear things up, but it might take a bit to get that solution out.

In the meantime... all you GMs out there should consider taking the more favorable to the prestige class's power when making judgement calls on how something works. It's not supposed to or intended to make the base witch less powerful overall; that's not what a prestige class is supposed to do.

Thank You James.

@Jason Nelson..I too am sorry if I came across as rude..and will worship your name for ever more just for the Aldori Swordlord.

No problem. Glad you enjoyed the Swordlord!

I think the ability of his I like the best is the ability to negate bonuses in his opponents - rob them of their morale (and eventually insight and competence) bonuses - by the sheer awesomeness of his swordplay!


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Through all of this discussion of minutiae, what people need to understand is this book is how prestige classes should be done. Great execution and tight focus on the world connection.

Taldor

Hi all,

I was wondering: What skills does an Aldori Swordlord receive above and beyond those that a fighter gets?

I'm almost certain that I will get this book but I'm wondering if I'll need a level of Duelist to get acrobatics.

thanks,

Kodger


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think people believe losing one single caster level to be far worse than it actually is. Just an oft-repeated meme of the 3.5/PF forum communities.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

1 CL lost = no biggie

2 CL lost = OK, you better give me something ...

3 CL lost = ... VERY nice for that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DemonSword wrote:

LISA STEVENS: We were aware of that, but as we noticed when my friend got his PDF was how super heavy it really is concerning it being campaign specific to Golarion. We saw a post made by one of your staff saying they did try to make the prestige classes work in a way so that they could fit in other settings but I guess that was just a false hope.

But what you said didn't relieve our number one concern; will we ever see more prestige classes for the RPG line ever again or is Advanced Player's Guide all we're ever going to get? It's been way too long, if you ask me.

We were extremely desperate for more prestige classes from the Paizo Pathfinder line and thought this would ease our impatience but we were wrong.

Is this really an issue? How hard is it to rename "Arclord of Nex" to "Arclord of [appropriate name]", and "Champion of Irori" to "Champion of [appropriate god]". Is there really more to it?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kodger wrote:

Hi all,

I was wondering: What skills does an Aldori Swordlord receive above and beyond those that a fighter gets?

I'm almost certain that I will get this book but I'm wondering if I'll need a level of Duelist to get acrobatics.

thanks,

Kodger

I'm pretty sure you can get a trait that will get you acrobatics as a class skill.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

and being Pf you don't need to have it as a class skill to get the required ranks, you just miss out on the +3 bonus. A great innovation and soooo simple :)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Flowing monk and four winds both give up stunning fist, which is among the things advanced by the PrC, so while you can still get in with them you do lose out a little. (Though I have to admit, a Dragon stylist [flavored as a silver dragon specifically] would be a thematically very strong mix with this PrC...)

Yeah, I'm really trying to not think about it too much until I can finally see it myself and see exactly what the flavor and functionality tradeoffs would be going this and that route.

Just glad and thankful to finally have some holy monk options. :D

Keep in mind, no matter what archeype you take, you can always pick up Stunning Fist as a feat later. If you're going monk 4/paladin 1 for entry, you can qualify for the feat at your 4th level in the PrC.

Andoran

Generic Villain wrote:
Flamehawke wrote:

I actually cannot wait for the 16th right now. I run a homebrew campaign setting and already I have ideas of how to reskin and place some of these into my world. Some of my players will be very very happy

I think you'll be quite pleased. I also think you'll find the reskinning to be a simple matter. Honestly, there are only a few classes here that are so tightly bound to Golarion that it might be difficult to do so. The Dawnflower Dissident, Gray Gardener, and Razmiran Priest are the ones that would give me pause. All the others though? I think you can use them right out of the box in almost any campaign.

Dawnflower Dissident i am undecided on. It might work, but I won't know until I look at it and its intended purpose. The other two I already intend to ban from PCs, but I have a couple of villains coming up that would fit into either of them very nicely especially the Gray Gardner. Either way I am eagerly looking forward to Thursday (payday).

I am already dancing in glee about this book and with what flavor I have gotten I already know about where you are most likely going to find these prestige classes in use or where you have to be from to gain access.

Andoran

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mechalibur wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Flowing monk and four winds both give up stunning fist, which is among the things advanced by the PrC, so while you can still get in with them you do lose out a little. (Though I have to admit, a Dragon stylist [flavored as a silver dragon specifically] would be a thematically very strong mix with this PrC...)

Yeah, I'm really trying to not think about it too much until I can finally see it myself and see exactly what the flavor and functionality tradeoffs would be going this and that route.

Just glad and thankful to finally have some holy monk options. :D

Keep in mind, no matter what archeype you take, you can always pick up Stunning Fist as a feat later. If you're going monk 4/paladin 1 for entry, you can qualify for the feat at your 4th level in the PrC.

I think you're missing out if you don't do monk 3/paladin 2, though. As I read it, if you don't get lay on hands before you enter the PrC, I don't think you get it period.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Shisumo wrote:
Mechalibur wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Flowing monk and four winds both give up stunning fist, which is among the things advanced by the PrC, so while you can still get in with them you do lose out a little. (Though I have to admit, a Dragon stylist [flavored as a silver dragon specifically] would be a thematically very strong mix with this PrC...)

Yeah, I'm really trying to not think about it too much until I can finally see it myself and see exactly what the flavor and functionality tradeoffs would be going this and that route.

Just glad and thankful to finally have some holy monk options. :D

Keep in mind, no matter what archeype you take, you can always pick up Stunning Fist as a feat later. If you're going monk 4/paladin 1 for entry, you can qualify for the feat at your 4th level in the PrC.
I think you're missing out if you don't do monk 3/paladin 2, though. As I read it, if you don't get lay on hands before you enter the PrC, I don't think you get it period.

All right, but that still actually gets you Stunning Fist the exact same level.

Osirion RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd note that taking the Stunning Fist feat doesn't get you the full suite of the monk's "Stunning Fist" class feature (i.e., the alternate effects monks can do instead of just a 1-round stun).

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010

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Winter Witch Stuff
Hi all, I wrote the winter witch PrC. In my turnover I had the class with full caster progression and no extra hexes (just the preset ones). In other words the 'cost' of the Prestige class was the feats you would probably spend after getting into the prestige class to buy the Extra Hex feat. This is somewhere in between [-1 caster level, no hex progression] and [-1 caster level, hex progression + bonus hexes]. It got changed in development.

The wording isn't super clear but the Paizo team are aware of it and will errata it. I'm hoping for bonus hexes + hex progression (I suspect this was the developer's intent) but I know that this is quite good.

An intermediate solution might be to have hex progression but you have to choose the preset (bonus) hexes at those levels of the prestige class.


Matt Goodall wrote:

Winter Witch Stuff

Hi all, I wrote the winter witch PrC. In my turnover I had the class with full caster progression and no extra hexes (just the preset ones). In other words the 'cost' of the Prestige class was the feats you would probably spend after getting into the prestige class to buy the Extra Hex feat. This is somewhere in between [-1 caster level, no hex progression] and [-1 caster level, hex progression + bonus hexes]. It got changed in development.

The wording isn't super clear but the Paizo team are aware of it and will errata it. I'm hoping for bonus hexes + hex progression (I suspect this was the developer's intent) but I know that this is quite good.

An intermediate solution might be to have hex progression but you have to choose the preset (bonus) hexes at those levels of the prestige class.

One of the best things about Paizo is that the contributors and the Editors, jump on the problem right from release, It's awesome!

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matt Goodall wrote:

Winter Witch Stuff

Hi all, I wrote the winter witch PrC. In my turnover I had the class with full caster progression and no extra hexes (just the preset ones). In other words the 'cost' of the Prestige class was the feats you would probably spend after getting into the prestige class to buy the Extra Hex feat. This is somewhere in between [-1 caster level, no hex progression] and [-1 caster level, hex progression + bonus hexes]. It got changed in development.

The wording isn't super clear but the Paizo team are aware of it and will errata it. I'm hoping for bonus hexes + hex progression (I suspect this was the developer's intent) but I know that this is quite good.

An intermediate solution might be to have hex progression but you have to choose the preset (bonus) hexes at those levels of the prestige class.

That's what I thought and hope that is what the final ruling is for the errata. :) But thanks for clearing up what you the author had original meant.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

My Faves from the book, in no order are:

Champion of Irori
Winter Witch
Green Faith Acolyte
Veiled Illusionist
Mag. Arcanist

I can't wait to bust out a few of these.

All in all, probably my favorite Pathfinder product since Advanced Players Guide...

Taldor

I'd like to put my build out to the public eye, and see what kind of responses I get:
First through fifth is regular winter witch archetype. I take some pretty basic hexes; misfortune, extra hex cackle, feral speech.
Sixth through ninth is prestige Winter witch. I lose a caster level, but not any spells per day, which is interesting.
At tenth, I take my sixth level of the winter witch archetype, taking Weather Control as a Major Hex.

Am I right that I lose ONLY a caster level in the transition, and that at tenth level I may select weather control?


Enaris wrote:

I'd like to put my build out to the public eye, and see what kind of responses I get:

First through fifth is regular winter witch archetype. I take some pretty basic hexes; misfortune, extra hex cackle, feral speech.
Sixth through ninth is prestige Winter witch. I lose a caster level, but not any spells per day, which is interesting.
At tenth, I take my sixth level of the winter witch archetype, taking Weather Control as a Major Hex.

Am I right that I lose ONLY a caster level in the transition, and that at tenth level I may select weather control?

As written and explained now, no, but you're close. When you lose a "Caster Level", that's shorthand for both Caster Level AND spells per day. The Winter Witch PrC loses 1 level of *advancement" of spells per day (which includes the Caster Level).

You *could*, however, select the Hex as described. The 6th level of Witch with the W.W. archetype gains a new Hex, and the W.W. PrC stacks for getting access to Major Hexes. Aside from the confusion over Spells per Day, your build would work as I read it.

Edit: Typos!


Hmm, with monastic legacy, a champion of Irori could be the key to very early high level unarmed damage. By the wording of monastic legacy:

Quote:
Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage.

So since champion of Irori raises it by itself already (and is presumably a 10 level PrC), thats two levels of paladin (for divine grace) and 10 levels of Champion of Irori, so 6 from monastic legacy, 3 from monk, 10 from champion of Irori and 5 from a monk's belt so 24 effective monk levels altogether by level 15, which probably mean max damage at level 10ish or so.

prototype00


Does the champion of Irori have a code of conduct?


Standard paladin stuff plus can't borrow or lend and must not have any cohorts, followers, special mounts, animal companions, etc. The path to perfection is without entanglements.

Cheliax

The Block Knight wrote:
DemonSword wrote:

LISA STEVENS: We were aware of that, but as we noticed when my friend got his PDF was how super heavy it really is concerning it being campaign specific to Golarion. We saw a post made by one of your staff saying they did try to make the prestige classes work in a way so that they could fit in other settings but I guess that was just a false hope.

But what you said didn't relieve our number one concern; will we ever see more prestige classes for the RPG line ever again or is Advanced Player's Guide all we're ever going to get? It's been way too long, if you ask me.

We were extremely desperate for more prestige classes from the Paizo Pathfinder line and thought this would ease our impatience but we were wrong.

To echo someone above (Enlight_Bystand, I believe) and others from before, many (though I'm sure not all) of the authors and staff at Paizo believe that most PrCs should be tied to world-specific elements and organizations. That's what makes them "prestigious". Generic shifts from the base classes are mostly covered by the Archetype system. That's not to say all PrCs are setting-specific and that's why we have the ones from the CRB and the APG. I'm sure at some point they will release more PrCs that are more generic and we'll see those presented in the hardcover rules line.

With all that being said, there is nothing preventing you from re-skinning many of these for your home game. Need an assassin that specializes in poison, the Daggermark Poisoner is for you, just throw out all the Daggermark stuff. Same with the rest.

Cheers,
Tony

True. It just takes a bit of creativity. Hellknights and signifiers could be from an elite order of Bane or Asmodeus worshipers in FR. Mammoth lord works perfect for Uthgart barbarians. Winter witch sounds like something from Unapproachable East. Noble scion works perfect for some Waterdhavian noble. Sleepless detective is a shoe in for a watch detective in a big city. Sure, not all of them work out of Golarion, but if you see a few, you and your players would like to try in FR, it could be worth picking up.


prototype00 wrote:

Hmm, with monastic legacy, a champion of Irori could be the key to very early high level unarmed damage. By the wording of monastic legacy:

Quote:
Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage.

So since champion of Irori raises it by itself already (and is presumably a 10 level PrC), thats two levels of paladin (for divine grace) and 10 levels of Champion of Irori, so 6 from monastic legacy, 3 from monk, 10 from champion of Irori and 5 from a monk's belt so 24 effective monk levels altogether by level 15, which probably mean max damage at level 10ish or so.

prototype00

That looks a bit fishy to me. Are you sure that the prestige class does not have wording saying that you simply count the prestige class levels as though they were monk levels? In that case, your paladin 2/monk 3/champion of Irori 10 would have 14 effective monk levels at level 15, or 19 after you throw in the monk's robe.

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