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Gypsy (PFRPG)

**½( )( ) (based on 2 ratings)
Gypsy (PFRPG)

Add PDF: $4.99

Add Preview PDF: FREE

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Meet the gypsy!

This spellcasting scoundrel is the perfect base class for players with a wild streak. Combining elements of casters and thieves, the gypsy breathes fresh air into your game by introducing deck building mechanics. The Deck of Divination isn't the only trick up the gypsy's sleeve; premonitions, second sight and wanderlust round out a robust list of immersive and engaging class features.

This class is dripping with flavor and has been thoroughly playtested.

Design Goals:

  • Introduce a deck building mechanic to be layered on top of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
  • Hybridize mages and rogues in an effective, playable way.
  • Bring the gypsy archetype to life! Flavor, flavor, flavor.
  • Provide several means to manipulate the deck to stimulate active gameplay.

Product Availability


Fulfilled immediately. Will be added to your My Downloads Page immediately upon purchase.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at webmaster@paizo.com.

PZOPDFDFGBC1E


See Also:

Product Discussion (61)
1 to 50 of 61 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Dreadfox Games has officially launched with our first product, the gypsy!

To celebrate our launch, we're discounting the gypsy to $2.99 (normally $4.99) at www.dreadfox.com until Friday, December 9th.

We're also offering monthly subscriptions at $1.99 (normally $3.99) to players that subscribe before December 9th. Cancel at any time, and retain permanent access to your content. Subscriptions recur at their original price, so subscribe before December 9th for big savings on the gypsy and all Dreadfox Games products from now until... however long immortal foxes live!

Check out our schedule to see if you're interested in any products scheduled for release in the near future.

Also, for those of you interested in bolstering your portfolios, we list the top 3 feedback contributors from every playtest in the design credits of the product we tested (and provide references, as needed). Let us know via our feedback tab if you'd like to participate in a playtest.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sounds interesting, but with holidays will be awhile before I can pick it up.


Interesting, but I'll second D_M - with holidays (and a lot of patronages), I'm too thinly stretched to check this out now. I'll gladly review it in January, though! :)

Free samples of your quality might draw more customers, just as a thought. I'm somewhat loathe to invest without any kind of sample. Heck, I only joined RiP's patronages (and they are an established company of quality) after reading The Rite Review #1 back in the day.

Just a thought!
Cheers, EZG


Thanks for your feedback!

I'm formulating a diabolical plan out of your ideas as we speak...

Taldor

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?


GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

If it had said Romani, Dom, Lom, Banjara, Minceir/Pavees, or Yeniche, i would have a problem. But i think that we are able to, as a community tell the difference between real ethnicites and the concept of "the wandering outsider"

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Zombieneighbours wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

If it had said Romani, Dom, Lom, Banjara, Minceir/Pavees, or Yeniche, i would have a problem. But i think that we are able to, as a community tell the difference between real ethnicites and the concept of "the wandering outsider"

Wow, I've only ever heard of Romani from that list.

In my experience, Gypsy and Romani are synonymous.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

In Golarion aren't the Varisians basically considers Gypsy's? and if so they are pretty much portrayed as thieves.

Taldor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
bigkilla wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

In Golarion aren't the Varisians basically considers Gypsy's? and if so they are pretty much portrayed as thieves.

No, they're not.

They have a criminal element (the sczarni. I'm not thrilled by them either) but it is made clear that they have a criminal reputation that is not usually deserved (see CotCT or Humans of Golarion).

From Humans of Golarion:

Spoiler:

Varisians wear flowing, beautifully embroidered garments
of red, green, blue, and purple, often adorned with strings
of coins and tiny bells. Some derisively refer to Varisians
as “magpies.” Tales of Varisian thieves running elaborate
confidence games in cities, or methodically picking the
pockets of all the patrons in a tavern in just a few minutes,
add to this unflattering image. The Sczarni are the most
notorious of Varisian thieves, and are the reason for much of
the Varisians’ reputation for criminal activity. The Sczarni
are less nomadic than many of their kin, and tend to settle
down for months or years to run their operations.

...

Varisians are devoted to their families, and clans are
incredibly close-knit. While caravans will stop to trade in
towns, and some Varisians even settle in cities, clans always
view non-members as outsiders. Fellow Varisians are given
more consideration than other races and classes, but the
clan receives unquestioned loyalty and support. This is not
to say that Varisians never leave their clan. Some quarrel
with family members and strike out on their own. Others,
in the grip of the wanderlust that strikes most Varisians at
some point in their life, desire more freedom than even a
traveling clan can provide. Many Varisians are fascinated
by ancient ruins, particularly those with a connection to
Desna, and will travel hundreds of miles to investigate
mere rumors of such ruins.

Varisians are victims of the unjust stereotyping which sees all members of a group tarred with the brush of the group's worst member.


GeraintElberion wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

If it had said Romani, Dom, Lom, Banjara, Minceir/Pavees, or Yeniche, i would have a problem. But i think that we are able to, as a community tell the difference between real ethnicites and the concept of "the wandering outsider"

Wow, I've only ever heard of Romani from that list.

In my experience, Gypsy and Romani are synonymous.

Here in the UK we have sizably populations of Minceir/Pavees(also referred to as irish travellers), Romani, and scottish travellers.

We have huge levels of bigotry against travelling people here.All three groups are referred to collectively as gypsies, despite being distinct ethnic groups. Then on top of that, amongst those bigots who know there is a difference between the ethnic groups, Romani generally get called 'gippos', Minceir/Pavees are referred to as 'pikes' and scottish travellers are referred to as 'tinker'.

To confuse matters further, all the names are use interchangeably by the clueless bigots.

All of these names are pretty offensive, though gypsy, provided it isn't used on sign 'no irish, no gypsies, no dogs', is the most acceptable term, after the proper ethnicity, but it would be nice is we could eventually get away from the term Gypsy all together.

That said the word does have use. It perfectly encapsulates stress between nomadic and settled communities, with elements of awe and wonder, but also fear and loathing.

I hope you find that interesting.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
GeraintElberion wrote:
bigkilla wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

In Golarion aren't the Varisians basically considers Gypsy's? and if so they are pretty much portrayed as thieves.

No, they're not.

They have a criminal element (the sczarni. I'm not thrilled by them either) but it is made clear that they have a criminal reputation that is not usually deserved (see CotCT or Humans of Golarion).

From Humans of Golarion:
** spoiler omitted **

Varisians are victims of the unjust...

That pretty much spells out regarded as thieves to me.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
bigkilla wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:
bigkilla wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

In Golarion aren't the Varisians basically considers Gypsy's? and if so they are pretty much portrayed as thieves.

No, they're not.

They have a criminal element (the sczarni. I'm not thrilled by them either) but it is made clear that they have a criminal reputation that is not usually deserved (see CotCT or Humans of Golarion).

From Humans of Golarion:
** spoiler omitted **

Varisians are victims of the unjust...

That pretty much spells out regarded as thieves to me.

Don't tempt me into an internet sigh, they're terrible things.

This product, by its very nature (according to the blurb) declares that gypsy=thief.

Golarion has a group of Gypsies who are wrongly discriminated against as all being thieves because of the activities of a minority.

One is how they are, the other is how the small-minded and discriminatory see them.

I hope you can see the important distinction between those two things.

Taldor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Zombieneighbours wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

If it had said Romani, Dom, Lom, Banjara, Minceir/Pavees, or Yeniche, i would have a problem. But i think that we are able to, as a community tell the difference between real ethnicites and the concept of "the wandering outsider"

Wow, I've only ever heard of Romani from that list.

In my experience, Gypsy and Romani are synonymous.

Here in the UK we have sizably populations of Minceir/Pavees(also referred to as irish travellers), Romani, and scottish travellers.

We have huge levels of bigotry against travelling people here.All three groups are referred to collectively as gypsies, despite being distinct ethnic groups. Then on top of that, amongst those bigots who know there is a difference between the ethnic groups, Romani generally get called 'gippos', Minceir/Pavees are referred to as 'pikes' and scottish travellers are referred to as 'tinker'.

To confuse matters further, all the names are use interchangeably by the clueless bigots.

All of these names are pretty offensive, though gypsy, provided it isn't used on sign 'no irish, no gypsies, no dogs', is the most acceptable term, after the proper ethnicity, but it would be nice is we could eventually get away from the term Gypsy all together.

That said the word does have use. It perfectly encapsulates stress between nomadic and settled communities, with elements of awe and wonder, but also fear and loathing.

I hope you find that interesting.

I am a fellow Brit (I had already noticed you were one of the crazy gang from some thread many moons ago).

I don't have your understanding of the community but the general British context and attitudes are things I am familiar with.

I have taught self-identifying gypsies and it made me quite viscerally aware of the bigotry they experience.

I have no desire to see it in my fun hobby.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GeraintElberion wrote:
bigkilla wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:
bigkilla wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

In Golarion aren't the Varisians basically considers Gypsy's? and if so they are pretty much portrayed as thieves.

No, they're not.

They have a criminal element (the sczarni. I'm not thrilled by them either) but it is made clear that they have a criminal reputation that is not usually deserved (see CotCT or Humans of Golarion).

From Humans of Golarion:
** spoiler omitted **

Varisians are victims of the unjust...

That pretty much spells out regarded as thieves to me.

Don't tempt me into an internet sigh, they're terrible things.

This product, by its very nature (according to the blurb) declares that gypsy=thief.

Golarion has a group of Gypsies who are wrongly discriminated against as all being thieves because of the activities of a minority.

One is how they are, the other is how the small-minded and discriminatory see them.

I hope you can see the important distinction between those two things.

This product actually declares that gypsy=spellcasting thieves.

From what I gather, it's taking the idea of the Harrowing deck (aka: tarrot deck), and adding some thieving bits.

I saw the name of the class, I saw that it was a publisher I had never heard of, and I saw the 12 posts and instantly knew this very debate would be happening.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also, $5 is a bit steep for a class, especially from a non-established group/guy.

I'll just write my thoughts as I read it.

Well then. It certainly has high production values. Not a fan of the double page though.

Wanderlust...needs some retuning. What happens when the bard / rogue / gypsy in the party leaves? Do they lose that Fleet?

What about taking Leadership, and having all of your followers be bard, gypsies, or rogues?

The bit about seeing any card but the top or needing to be face down is a bit rough. They basically need to always hold them that way, or else it could get jumbled about. Or some malcontent could draw a card and ruin the whole thing for the day.

This is a half BAB class that gets armor and quite a few weapons (including a falcata, if you choose it. I guess that depends on whether the "under 4 lbs" bit is inclusive or exclusive.).

Not actually being able to choose what spells you cast is a bit...lame. I mean, it does the randomness aspect wonderfully.

But between the half BAB and the inability to specifically choose a spell (Manifest Destiny is not good), there's really no reliable way to be useful. I fear this will lead to desires not to play the class, or boredom (despite the idea of the class)

I do like the bit about handling the Deck as a player.

In short, I think the idea behind the class is good, and in many ways it is on the right path, but the execution leaves a fair amount to be desired, due in part to the weakness of the class and the supreme difficulty that they will face in being an effective member of the team.

Also, I recommend toning down the art for the next books. Art's expensive, and you'll find it hard to recoup costs.


I wonder how this gypsy compares with my Fate Weaver and some feats that complement it;

  • Blind Seer
  • Cheiromancy
  • Perform A Reading
  • Second Sight
  • Shared Destiny


bigkilla wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

In Golarion aren't the Varisians basically considers Gypsy's? and if so they are pretty much portrayed as thieves.

This sounds very accurate to me :D

The Varisians seem to be inspired by the Vistani of Ravenloft, which seem to be inspired by [insert any of ~100 classic fantasy and horror novels here].

I sincerely apologize if this product has offended you, Geraint. Please understand that the gypsy is a tribute to a classic fantasy archetype and in no way social commentary on any real-world culture.

Also, to clarify the product, gypsy = augur. Anything beyond that stems from player input (though the design leaves ample room for knavery). Just as bard = minstrel, but the design of the bard easily lends itself to thievery; gypsy = augur, but the design easily lends itself to thievery.


GeraintElberion wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:
Zombieneighbours wrote:
GeraintElberion wrote:

So... we're okay with gypsy=thief now?

Are we okay with that?

Really?

If it had said Romani, Dom, Lom, Banjara, Minceir/Pavees, or Yeniche, i would have a problem. But i think that we are able to, as a community tell the difference between real ethnicites and the concept of "the wandering outsider"

Wow, I've only ever heard of Romani from that list.

In my experience, Gypsy and Romani are synonymous.

Here in the UK we have sizably populations of Minceir/Pavees(also referred to as irish travellers), Romani, and scottish travellers.

We have huge levels of bigotry against travelling people here.All three groups are referred to collectively as gypsies, despite being distinct ethnic groups. Then on top of that, amongst those bigots who know there is a difference between the ethnic groups, Romani generally get called 'gippos', Minceir/Pavees are referred to as 'pikes' and scottish travellers are referred to as 'tinker'.

To confuse matters further, all the names are use interchangeably by the clueless bigots.

All of these names are pretty offensive, though gypsy, provided it isn't used on sign 'no irish, no gypsies, no dogs', is the most acceptable term, after the proper ethnicity, but it would be nice is we could eventually get away from the term Gypsy all together.

That said the word does have use. It perfectly encapsulates stress between nomadic and settled communities, with elements of awe and wonder, but also fear and loathing.

I hope you find that interesting.

I am a fellow Brit (I had already noticed you were one of the crazy gang from some thread many moons ago).

I don't have your understanding of the community but the general British context and attitudes are things I am familiar with.

I have taught self-identifying gypsies and it made me quite viscerally aware of the bigotry they experience.

I have no desire to see it...

Sorry, I did know you where a brit, I'd just forgotten.

It is kind of bad that kids would be referring to them selves as gypsys,especially from romani children. I thought movements towards regaining ethnic identity, and the growth of non-territorial nationhood was meant to be progressing strongly in the Romani community.

All that said, I don't think that this product represents any form of intentional bigotry, at least from the name. All; it seems to be doing is building around a long established trope born in part from some of the stronger and less negative aspects of the way european culture has dealt with nomadic cultures. I think there is room for that in our story telling, as long as no one trys to claim that real travelling peoples are magicial theives and tricksters.


Thanks for the feedback, Cheapy.

Please allow me to address a few of your concerns (beginning with the most substantial).

Cheapy wrote:
Not actually being able to choose what spells you cast is a bit...lame.... I fear this will lead to desires not to play the class, or boredom (despite the idea of the class)

Noted. However, through several levels of playtesting with three separate groups, we found the opposite to be true. Every turn seemed to breed excitement and tension at the flip of a card. Did the fates hold fiery death for your enemies? Was your scimitar about to become a +5 weapon? Was a summoned ally in your future? The ability to compile a deck of cards with spells from every spell list and some unique supernatural abilities seemed to compensate for the inability to choose a spell. It puts a lot of pressure on the player to build a solid deck, but pays dividends when done well. See below...

Cheapy wrote:
due in part to the weakness of the class

We actually found the class to be on the stronger side of the power curve. We strengthened certain aspects of the class to compensate for drawn spells.

PROS: Arcane and divine spells at maximum progression, lots of spells per level, 2 high saves, bi-level choices of above-average power (+1 to the DC of all spells, prolonged fast healing 3, 1 card of a spell level above your normal cap, etc.), a solid divination ability for no cost at least once a day, above-average speed, lots of skill points per level, lots of class skills and a bonus to some very useful skills already aligned with your primary ability score

CONS: Randomly drawn spells (unless you burn down your daily allotment), low BAB, d6 hit die, light armor, limited weapon proficiency

I'm sorry to hear that the class looks weak to you. I really hope that you'll give it a try, though, because I think your opinion of the class's position on the power curve would be pretty different after playing it.

Cheapy wrote:

Wanderlust...needs some retuning. What happens when the bard / rogue / gypsy in the party leaves? Do they lose that Fleet?

What about taking Leadership, and having all of your followers be bard, gypsies, or rogues?

This is addressed in our FAQs. From the FAQs...

Dreadfox.com FAQs wrote:

"Q: If a bard, gypsy or rogue leaves my party, do I keep the instance of Fleet they granted?

A: This is your DM’s call. So long as the mechanic isn’t being abused, we recommend that you be allowed to keep the feat for role playing reasons. The wanderlust that the missing character inspired is likely still lingering inside of you and is probably strengthened by their absence. However, this mechanic is very easily abused and we recommend DM intervention if players begin approaching speeds of 80+ ft. by “chain smoking” cohorts or party members."

So you keep Fleet (as long as it stays in-character). Leadership is certainly one way to bolster your speed, but if you keep level 1 followers around during level 7+ combat, you won't be fast for very long :D

If, after playing the class, you still consider it weak or dull - please contact me via our feedback tab and I will be happy to reimburse you for the product.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've got my own "gypsy" analogue culture in my homebrew. This looks interesting. As for the whole Gypsy = thief discussion not every member of the culture would be this class and the real life culture suffers from stereotyping related to the actions of a few. Seems fairly typical of human reactions, especially in terms of reactions to outsider groups. In short we aren't always that nice...


4 people marked this as a favorite.
R_Chance wrote:
I've got my own "gypsy" analogue culture in my homebrew. This looks interesting. As for the whole Gypsy = thief discussion not every member of the culture would be this class and the real life culture suffers from stereotyping related to the actions of a few. Seems fairly typical of human reactions, especially in terms of reactions to outsider groups. In short we aren't always that nice...

But the class name implies the relation that gypsies (a denomination that is regared as racist as well) are thieves. The class should be renamed.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I still have many concerns and responses to your post, but I would rather not post them here. I also find the Feedback box a bit too limiting for the length I suspect my response will be. Dreadfox, can you e-mail me at this avatar's name at gmail.com?

I will say that I'm not interested in a refund, since some of the ideas in here are inspiring.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fabius Maximus wrote:


R_Chance wrote:
I've got my own "gypsy" analogue culture in my homebrew. This looks interesting. As for the whole Gypsy = thief discussion not every member of the culture would be this class and the real life culture suffers from stereotyping related to the actions of a few. Seems fairly typical of human reactions, especially in terms of reactions to outsider groups. In short we aren't always that nice...

But the class name implies the relation that gypsies (a denomination that is regared as racist as well) are thieves. The class should be renamed.

And I'm sure a few are thieves (both the game class and real world Romani). And many more are not. Since when has our ability to tar all people in an ethnic group with the same brush come as a surprise? Not every Rogue is a thief, and not every Gypsy (the class) is one. The fact that they have abilities that a thief would find useful is beside the point. The fact that some ignorant peasants might equate all Gypsies with thieves because of the behavior of a few should't be surprising. The class name "Gypsy" is useful only because it is attached to a fantasy trope that doesn't really bear too close a resemblance to the real world Romani. It syncs nicely with werewolves, vampires and other mythological / fictional things though. If they had named the class "Romani" and implied that all were thieves I could see the grounds for anger. As for "gypsy" it has come to be applied to a wider range of nomadic groups / occupations (i.e. gypsy trucker) than just the people who were labeled with that name in the Middle Ages. It has come to conotate "nomad" or outsider more than "thief". You could rename the class (and I will when I fit them into my own nomadic Old Race Rivermen / Caravaners) but no name they could give the class would have the instant recognition and association with mythology / fiction that "gypsy" does.


Fabius Maximus wrote:
R_Chance wrote:
I've got my own "gypsy" analogue culture in my homebrew. This looks interesting. As for the whole Gypsy = thief discussion not every member of the culture would be this class and the real life culture suffers from stereotyping related to the actions of a few. Seems fairly typical of human reactions, especially in terms of reactions to outsider groups. In short we aren't always that nice...
But the class name implies the relation that gypsies (a denomination that is regared as racist as well) are thieves. The class should be renamed.

I'd agree that you would be better off with a term which had less of a specific real-world meaning

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I am amazed that so many people take offence at the fictional "Gypsy" being called a thief. The is a game set in a fiction setting with no ties to the real world using a "Gypsy" that is portrayed as a Thief, hell even Paizo does it with their Varisians, why are people not crying and complaining about them changing that class so they are not portrayed as Gypsies and thieves?


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No kidding. Give them a freaking break. I'm sure no offense was intended and there are certainly much worse things people just accept in gaming. Please just move on regarding this silly subject.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I feel gypped thinking that someone tried to turn this into a racial generalization.


This product, by its very nature (according to the blurb) declares that gypsy=thief.

Golarion has a group of Gypsies who are wrongly discriminated against as all being thieves because of the activities of a minority.

One is how they are, the other is how the small-minded and discriminatory see them.

I hope you can see the important distinction between those two things.

Well said. :)
One of the appeals of playing a Varisian IS the stereotype. Much like the appeal of playing a tiefling. CotcT is by far my favorite AP and to see Paizo's harrow deck being used in Paizo modules and third party products is very appealing. I've gone as far as purchasing a handmade Romanian card box as a suitable in game prop. Very much looking forward to my own play test of this intriguing character concept with my first PDF purchase. Thank you for a very flavorful concept Dreadfox.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Rabble.

Rabble rabble!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For those of you without the PDF it should be noted that the term "thieves" appears no where in the PDF, just in the product description above. They are described as "Seers, sages, soothsayers" and the words "manipulate fate", "fortelling" and "portend" crop up. I suspect the term "rogues" would have been more appropriate for the advert above than "thieves". The class skill list is missing things like "Climb", "Stealth", and "Disable Device". It does include "Sleight of Hand" but for a class whose main abilities center around a deck of cards (and spells granted by them), it makes sense...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thief harkens back to the game's earliest days and I don't see it as a slight against any particular culture. I welcome the gritty edge that 3PP use to enhance the game and applaud them for their creativity. Let's not go back to the politically correct 2nd edition days. If the character concept doesn't appeal to your gaming sensibilities, play something more in line with your personal taste. I for one love the concept


Hello, Pathfinders!

First, a heartfelt "Thank You!"

Thanks to everyone who has helped make Dreadfox Games profitable after our first weekend of sales. We look forward to many years of devoted service providing quality Pathfinder Roleplaying Game material.

Second, a little thank you present.

We've compiled a list of tips related to the gypsy and would like to extend an open invitation to download it, for free, at dreadfox.com. If you've bought the class, I encourage you to check it out. The tips are things you'd figure out in a week or two of play; but we want you to jump right into the game with the most enjoyable character possible. And for those who can't decide whether or not they want to buy the gypsy, download this free PDF and get a read on how the class plays.

A note on page spreads.

If you would prefer a single page spread instead of a double page spread, please open the product and go to "File-> Properties -> Initial View -> Page Layout -> Single Page" and save the PDF. Close the PDF, and open the PDF. If enough people dislike double page spreads, we'll be happy to change our default format. For the time being, however, we are going to stick with our book-like layout.

And finally, the price.

I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate that the gypsy is on sale at dreadfox.com until December 9th.

Subscribe for $1.99 and get permanent access to the gypsy. Cancel your subscription at your leisure, or hold on to your discount until we release something you don't like - the choice is yours.

Or...

Buy the gypsy for $2.99 at dreadfox.com.

Again, a big thank you to all who have purchased or expressed interest in the gypsy.


Dreadfox Games wrote:

Hello, Pathfinders!

Second, a little thank you present.

We've compiled a list of tips related to the gypsy and would like to extend an open invitation to download it, for free, at dreadfox.com.

This is the temporary home of Gypsy Tips.

I apologize to everyone who tried to download it from our site (dreadfox.com can't handle $0.00 transactions atm). We are hunting a more convenient solution.

Qadira

Dreadfox Games wrote:
I apologize to everyone who tried to download it from our site (dreadfox.com can't handle $0.00 transactions atm). We are hunting a more convenient solution.

We'd be more than happy to host these files on d20pfsrd.com if you'd like.


R_Chance wrote:
For those of you without the PDF it should be noted that the term "thieves" appears no where in the PDF, just in the product description above. They are described as "Seers, sages, soothsayers" and the words "manipulate fate", "fortelling" and "portend" crop up. I suspect the term "rogues" would have been more appropriate for the advert above than "thieves". The class skill list is missing things like "Climb", "Stealth", and "Disable Device". It does include "Sleight of Hand" but for a class whose main abilities center around a deck of cards (and spells granted by them), it makes sense...

Then I would take out the following section in the descriptive text above: "Combining elements of casters and thieves..."

@bigkilla: It's not fictional. "Gypsy" is a real-world term to (derogatory) describe several different real-world nomadic peoples. Using it in a fictional context (apart from drawing up a racist (N)PC) doesn't make less wrong, just ignorant (at best).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

At least in America, I have heard (multiple times) "gypsy" referring to someone who reads the tarot cards. This is probably because the people commonly referred to in Europe as gypsy don't exist in America.


Ah, but Cheapy, many of those ethnic groups given the title 'gyspy' in fact do exist in America, and many continue with their activities of traveling on the road.

In Marshall, Illinois, my dad's hometown, the town cemetery has a huge marble tomb representing the Queen of the Gypsies (Romani I presume), and many romani have continued to be buried there over the years, even though none of them live in Marshall itself. Marshall was the site of great gatherings of Romani during the turn of the 19th century.

Also, having recently watched a documentary on Irish Travelers (Pavee), many live both in Ireland and America, traveling back and forth between, many working as 'tarmackers', paving driveways with asphalt for profit.

I would think all ethnicities thought of as gypsy peoples have some representation, here in America.

Historically, Japan also has an ethnic sub-group that qualify as gypsies in that, they travel from town to town working as a kind of circus, with entertainers, fortune-tellers and the like. I believe they are actually Korean by descent, but have lived in Japan for several hundred years - and are treated poorly like every other 'gypsy' marked ethnicity.


God d*#% it! Is their anything that people can't make into a racist or sexist argument? Here is a question for ya, if you want to rename the gypsy what would you call it? Would anybody have a clue what it was by this new name? Here is a fun example for you: vampire=Dracula=Romanian, congratulations you're racist! If you use vampires you obviously hate romanians. See everything is racist if you want it to be.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Sardonic Soul wrote:
God d*#% it! Is their anything that people can't make into a racist or sexist argument? Here is a question for ya, if you want to rename the gypsy what would you call it? Would anybody have a clue what it was by this new name? Here is a fun example for you: vampire=Dracula=Romanian, congratulations you're racist! If you use vampires you obviously hate romanians. See everything is racist if you want it to be.

Your joking right? common sense has no place in role playing games!!!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fabius Maximus wrote:


R_Chance wrote:

For those of you without the PDF it should be noted that the term "thieves" appears no where in the PDF, just in the product description above. They are described as "Seers, sages, soothsayers" and the words "manipulate fate", "fortelling" and "portend" crop up. I suspect the term "rogues" would have been more appropriate for the advert above than "thieves". The class skill list is missing things like "Climb", "Stealth", and "Disable Device". It does include "Sleight of Hand" but for a class whose main abilities center around a deck of cards (and spells granted by them), it makes sense...

Then I would take out the following section in the descriptive text above: "Combining elements of casters and thieves..."

@bigkilla: It's not fictional. "Gypsy" is a real-world term to (derogatory) describe several different real-world nomadic peoples. Using it in a fictional context (apart from drawing up a racist (N)PC) doesn't make less wrong, just ignorant (at best).

Pretty much what I would suggest. Rogue = Thief is an easy slip for a long term D&D player to make. Until 3E the class was the Thief. It became more generalized as "Rogue" then. Gypsy, as I pointed out further above, is used more to describe nomadic groups. Prejudice is up to the individual to infer, and is not inherant in the term. The term is used by some Romani while others find it pejorative / offensive. It originally meant "Egyptian" (the point of origin ascribed to them in the Middle Ages). As for medieval peasants they were prejudiced against the people from the next village much less anybody whose culture differed. As settled agrarians, they found nomads particularly alien.


Today is the last day to grab the gypsy for $1.99 / $2.99 at www.dreadfox.com.


I was wondering if I could get alittle input from the creators of the class. I don't know how keen you are to Dreamscared Press' Psionic offerings but if you are, would you include psionic powers (sans augments most likely) as options for a gypsy`s deck?


Mr.Alarm wrote:
... would you include psionic powers (sans augments most likely) as options for a gypsy`s deck?

That's a great question.

Short Answer:

Yes.

Long Answer:

The gypsy's Deck of Divination was designed to feel like a mysterious source of immense power. If a character is daring (or foolish) enough to tempt the will of the cards, the deck could bring ruin to civilizations just as easily as it could restore life to fallen heroes. Adding sources of power to the deck only serves to enhance its capricious nature and, as that is in keeping with the class and deck's general lore, we encourage players to do so.

In terms of balance, the most formidable caster among the psionics (the psion) scales at roughly the same pace as the wizard, so it shouldn't "break" the game to feature their powers in a gypsy's deck. In fact, it might put the player at a slight disadvantage since the gypsy does not gain power points but the psionic power system was designed to rely upon the enhancements they provide.

That being said, we keep references to non-Paizo products to an absolute minimum. With all due support and appreciation for the 3pp's that enrich the Pathfinder community, we respect the value of your dollar too much to reference non-Paizo materials any more than is absolutely necessary. We'd love for you to mix and match our products with those of other Pathfinder publishers, but we will never release something that relies on external material. The cover price is all it will ever take to get a Dreadfox Games product up and running.


The gypsy is on sale for $0.99 at www.dreadfox.com during the final hours of our Valentine's Day Surviror sale!


Reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Will surface on DTRPG via GMS magazine as well. All the best,
EZG


Good review End. I enjoy semi-controlled chaos, and it tends t work for me, so I would play one of these, just to see how it works. I am working on a unofficial set of tweaks for my game, basically expanding the entire tarot deck into augerys..add a few teeth to things.


Thanks Blackerose! If you're done making some tweaks to the class, I'd be interested in your expansion of it!


I will let you know..I started it, got busy with some other projects, and am just now regoing over the notes


Endzeitgeist wrote:

Reviewed here and sent to GMS magazine. Will surface on DTRPG via GMS magazine as well. All the best,

EZG

Thanks for the review, Endzeitgeist. We appreciate your feedback.

We've only received negative feedback from 2 people, but both of those people cited the same major issue: [Chance]. We're not happy unless our players are happy. Because of this, I have taken the day to re-evaluate the gypsy's design in search of ways to eliminate this problem.

[Chance]

I am updating the class with 1 very minor errata. I loathe habitual errata as much as the next person, so please accept my apologies and understand that issuing errata is an exception we aim to avoid. I hope that explaining the rationale behind this errata will encourage players' tolerance.

The class involves a certain degree of chance by design, as it reinforces the capricious nature of the gypsy and tempers the extraordinary power of casting arcane + divine spells at maximum progression.

However, this chance was intended to be mitigated by player skill - that is, building a solid deck and using draw-card auguries wisely.

When designing and playtesting this class, we went back and forth about whether drawing abilities (manifest destiny/twist of fate) and card omission should be default mechanics or auguries (requiring some degree of investment). We ultimately settled on card omission as a default mechanic, and drawing abilities as auguries. This is because we saw highly effective decks that displayed a total disregard for what the character drew on a turn-by-turn basis (namely "blaster" and "buff" decks); we ultimately decided that choosing power over control was a viable option and a choice we wanted to let players make for themselves.

However, while "power" decks proved viable, the most powerful gypsies in our playtests employed finesse - they would draw cards randomly during easy encounters, and use manifest destiny or metamagic auguries during challenging encounters.

This is what we had intended. When the going gets tough, eliminate chance altogether or radically empower your spells by burning through your deck in a hurry. Then, when things slow down, subject yourself to the fates and make use of spells like fire breath or holy sword to extend the longevity of your deck. With a cherry-picked spell list (wall of thorns, heal, circle of death, haste, holy sword, etc.), players always seemed to have fun when drawing random cards because every spell they drew was a great spell. But it seems that many players are not recognizing the acceleration/deceleration dynamic that the deck and augury systems present based on reading the class.

The last thing we want is for the text of this class to preclude the gameplay of this class.

In an effort to 1) make the ability of a character to eliminate chance more apparent, 2) make the in-game dynamic of accelerating/decelerating draws more apparent and 3) free up a precious augury slot, we are releasing the following errata:

Fated Draw: At 2nd level, the gypsy gains her choice of manifest destiny or twist of fate as a bonus augury.


Modified my review to reflect the new errata. I do like your approach to making strange and unusual classes and products and for a first offering, the Gypsy is bold indeed!

All the best,
EZG

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