James Jacobs wrote:

Holy overreaction, Batman!

If you say so. Personally, I think my reaction was fairly measured, as it included words like "if." Are you sure you were reacting to what I said, rather than what you expected me to say? ;)

James Jacobs wrote:

No, Inner Sea Magic will NOT be required.

Excellent; concern addressed, and this book goes back on the "buy" list.

I guess I was a little weirded out that having 4 hardcovers be on the "must buy" wasn't an issue, but one 64 page softcover being on a "would help but not essential" list was a deal breaker is all.

If it was a dealbreaker because the contents of those hardcovers are going to be in cheap PDFs and because the contents will be free online at the PRD and other resources, whereas Inner Sea Magic would not be so easy to get, then that's cool. That just means things are working exactly as I hope they are!

ISM should be on the buy list too, Bugley. It's one of the best Paizo releases of 2011. Not just for Golarion, the school rules are brilliant!

If it was a dealbreaker because the contents of those hardcovers are going to be in cheap PDFs and because the contents will be free online at the PRD and other resources, whereas Inner Sea Magic would not be so easy to get, then that's cool. That just means things are working exactly as I hope they are!

In this case things are indeed working exactly as intended, and I do realize you guys try to strike a balance.

ISM should be on the buy list too, Bugley. It's one of the best Paizo releases of 2011. Not just for Golarion, the school rules are brilliant!

I'm sure they're quite good, but I have a very limited appetite for crunch.

Yes, I realize I am part of a tiny minority. ;-)

I'm really confused by that statement.

I give up. All I care to say is: ISM GOOD!

I'm really confused by that statement.

I give up. All I care to say is: ISM GOOD!

LOL; the "very limited appetite for crunch?" All three of us resent that. ;-)

Edit: One tiny nitpick -- if the ISM content is that good (and universally applicable), perhaps it belonged in UM?

Evil Lincoln wrote:

ISM should be on the buy list too, Bugley. It's one of the best Paizo releases of 2011. Not just for Golarion, the school rules are brilliant!

I'm sure they're quite good, but I have a very limited appetite for crunch.

Yes, I realize I am part of a tiny minority. ;-)

Well, I would agree with Evil Lincoln: Inner Sea Magic is one of the best Paizo supplements. The book combines fluff and crunch quite elegantly and is a pleasure to read.

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I'm really confused by that statement.

I give up. All I care to say is: ISM GOOD!

LOL; the "very limited appetite for crunch?" All three of us resent that. ;-)

Edit: One tiny nitpick -- if the ISM content is that good (and universally applicable), perhaps it belonged in UM?

No, I think it needs the Golarion material to show the potential of the organization rewards rules. A homebrew GM still benefits from those details.

I truly hope for a rules release with a version of the prestige point rules using generic campaign organizations... But they are just fine with a debut in ISM.

There are other good rules/flavor combos in there too. I'm not exaggerating, my favorite book of 2011.

Edit: personally, I think the non-generic approach of the campaign line makes for better rules. There's more to the game than characters and the feats they choose.

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I'm really confused by that statement.

I give up. All I care to say is: ISM GOOD!

LOL; the "very limited appetite for crunch?" All three of us resent that. ;-)

Edit: One tiny nitpick -- if the ISM content is that good (and universally applicable), perhaps it belonged in UM?

Eew.

We don't save our "good" stuff for hardcovers and populate the campaign setting books with "leftovers." That's kind of an annoying implication, frankly.

The content of Inner Sea Magic is, frankly, not appropriate for a hardcover, because it's inexorably tied to the world of Golarion. ALL of the content in Inner Sea Magic is Golarion specific, and had we moved that content into a hardcover, we would have had to strip out all of the world-specific flavor in order to present things as world-neutral. And that, in my opinion, would have been an incredible disservice to the contents of Inner Sea Magic, first and foremost, and an even greater disservice to the world of Golarion.

And if by saying you have a limited appetite for crunch that you have a much greater appetite for flavor text... frankly, a book like Inner Sea Magic would probably appeal to you MORE than would a plain old rulesbook with only a token amount of flavor text in there.

Of course, if the other side of "I have a limited appetite for crunch" is "and I don't eat flavor text at all," then nevermind.

*wanders off to look at ISM*

*wanders off to look at ISM*

MWA HA HA! SUCCESS!

Eew.

We don't save our "good" stuff for hardcovers and populate the campaign setting books with "leftovers." That's kind of an annoying implication, frankly.

Wow, I'm just rubbing you the wrong way today, eh? :P

The key part of what I said was "universally applicable." Optional/improved specialization rules seem very universally applicable to me.

As for fluff/crunch -- I think you're oversimplifying. Since I can't easily draw a Venn diagram, I'll put it this way: ISM is a book that, in my opinion, appeals only to people who are specifically interested in Golarion AND are in the market for new crunch. UM at least appeals to those not interested in Golarion.

What I would personally like is adventures and/or setting material as close to devoid of new crunch as possible, because scattered crunch is, to me, the absolute worst-case scenario. I *hate* running into the "which book was that class/spell/archetype/item in again" wall in the middle of a game. YMMV.

Also, the implication that I'll be unhappy no matter what you guys do was rather unfair.

Couldn't disagree more. I am not the type you describe as the audience, and I adore the book.

Campaign setting has been the source of the best rules all year. Campaign context makes better rules. The rulebook line looks like a big character creation wank to me (just my opinion).

I've written extensively on this opinion in the setting forum, I will stop derailing this thread now.

Couldn't disagree more. I am not the type you describe as the audience, and I adore the book.

Fair enough. But if you're neither interested in Golarion or in new crunch, I do have to wonder exactly what you get out of the book.

Edit: Again, I haven't even opened the book, and I'm *not* attacking it, but you seem to be saying that my impression of the contents (spells and magical crunch tied to Golarion) is inaccurate.

Evil Lincoln wrote:

Couldn't disagree more. I am not the type you describe as the audience, and I adore the book.

Fair enough. But if you're neither interested in Golarion or in new crunch, I do have to wonder exactly what you get out of the book.

Edit: Again, I haven't even opened the book, and I'm *not* attacking it, but you seem to be saying that my impression of the contents (spells and magical crunch tied to Golarion) is inaccurate.

I just bumped a thread in campaign setting forum for you. Linking on mobile is a pain.

I don't seek crunch, but crunch that makes players RP harder and reinforces the setting is something new and noteworthy. Pathfinder could use more of that. Join me in the other thread.

I just bumped a thread in campaign setting forum for you. Linking on mobile is a pain.

I don't seek crunch, but crunch that makes players RP harder and reinforces the setting is something new and noteworthy. Pathfinder could use more of that. Join me in the other thread.

Actually EL, I'll pass. It would be kinda a derail (not to mention dick-ish) for me to basically pop in an go "this is why I don't want this book." Suffice it to say that I not really interested in another book of crunch, Golarion-specific or otherwise, and I am glad that I can enjoy the Rise re-release without it. :)

As for fluff/crunch -- I think you're oversimplifying. Since I can't easily draw a Venn diagram, I'll put it this way: ISM is a book that, in my opinion, appeals only to people who are specifically interested in Golarion AND are in the market for new crunch. UM at least appeals to those not interested in Golarion.

I'm not that interested in Golarion itself. However, of my subscriptions, I find the books in the Campaign Setting line to be consistently the most interesting and useful books. Because they are full of ideas. The snippets of rules they include are nice, but the best parts are just reading the great ideas.

In fact, if I had to reduce my subscriptions for financial reasons, the two I kept would be the rules line and the campaign setting line.

*wanders off to look at ISM*

Following.

Didn't really grab me, but I wouldn't mind picking it up at some point. Just not going to jump on it right now.

Didn't really grab me, but I wouldn't mind picking it up at some point. Just not going to jump on it right now.

I'm glad it didn't grab you.

I hate mimics.

Do we know when a page count will be nailed down? Or has that been stated already and I am overlooking it...

Do we know when a page count will be nailed down? Or has that been stated already and I am overlooking it...

Page count has been nailed down for months, but I'm not sure we've ever said what that number is in public.

416 pages.

the Haunted Jester wrote:

Do we know when a page count will be nailed down? Or has that been stated already and I am overlooking it...

Page count has been nailed down for months, but I'm not sure we've ever said what that number is in public.

416 pages.

Wow! Looks like we may get 6-10 additional pages of new material if my math is correct. This is a beast of a book that I cannot wait to run!!

James Jacobs wrote:

the Haunted Jester wrote:

Do we know when a page count will be nailed down? Or has that been stated already and I am overlooking it...

Page count has been nailed down for months, but I'm not sure we've ever said what that number is in public.

416 pages.

Wow! Looks like we may get 6-10 additional pages of new material if my math is correct. This is a beast of a book that I cannot wait to run!!

More than that, since we're not reprinting every single article from the original run.

That just means things are working exactly as I hope they are!

MWA HA HA! SUCCESS!

Someone's been practicing. I see where this is going...

Almighty Jacobasaur,

Thank you, almighty one!

I was wondering if it would be possible to get some insight as to whether you plan on keeping the "start date" of the Anniversary edition the same as the original (i.e. **07) or do you plan on having the Anniversary edition occur in the "current year"? If the latter, what is your plan to account for the extra time between the events listed above and the start of the adventure?

At this point, the "start date" is going to be left unsaid—you can start it in 4107 or 4112 or whatever works best for you.

Thanks!

Didn't really grab me, but I wouldn't mind picking it up at some point. Just not going to jump on it right now.

Most of it was no better or worse than most other books (which is by no means a bad thing), but I thought the section on Magic Schools was outstanding.

Not that any of that has anything to do with RotRL.

If the Creative Director can talk about ISM here, so can we. ;)

This book can't get here fast enough IMHO, I preordered last August. For some reason I was under the impression of an April release.

Anyway looking forward to this despite me not having UM/UC. As long as it can be run without books (other than the Core), I'm good. I have ISM but I havent had the time to go through it. :)

I still say you should give the same treatment for CotCT, SD, and LoF. One a year until every 3.5 AP has been Pathfinder-ized. Maybe print runs adjusted by popularity to save Paizo some money (I dont really know what printing costs are, so forgive my ignorance here). CoCT and LoF seem pretty popular. SD less so, but from what I've read in the SD forums, there would be an opportunity to fix a few minor things in that particular AP to make it great (YMMV of course).

I want this... gimme, gimme, gimme...

Just out of curiosity, have the number of preorders for this edition met or exceeded the expectations of Paizo regarding the interest in this product? Or is that something that you can't really gauge until actual sales are being made?

Just out of curiosity, have the number of preorders for this edition met or exceeded the expectations of Paizo regarding the interest in this product? Or is that something that you can't really gauge until actual sales are being made?

Our customers don't tend to preorder stuff much, so there are very few products where we actually bother to look at preorders very often. (That's another reason why we offer subscriptions—it helps give us that same kind of insight.)

(We do look had at *distributor* preorders, though most of them don't come in until the weeks just prior to release.)

Our customers don't tend to preorder stuff much, so there are very few products where we actually bother to look at preorders very often.

I suspect a fair number of subscribers will pre-order to get the free PDF. Of course, the majority of those orders will come during the weeks leading up to release, long after you've sent it to the printers.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Our customers don't tend to preorder stuff much, so there are very few products where we actually bother to look at preorders very often.

I suspect a fair number of subscribers will pre-order to get the free PDF. Of course, the majority of those orders will come during the weeks leading up to release, long after you've sent it to the printers.

Yep.

How could I have missed this up until now??
Hell has frozen over!

I'm pre-ordering this!!!!!

How could I have missed this up until now??

Hell has frozen over!

I'm pre-ordering this!!!!!

I know, i can't believe i had missed it as well. It has been preordered!

You guys planning on doing up some fancy enhanced pdf maps for this, too?

Is it possible to buy this in PDF format without the print version? I've got lots more space on my computer then in physical storage! :)

==Aelryinth

Is it possible to buy this in PDF format without the print version? I've got lots more space on my computer then in physical storage! :)

No. It has been said elsewhere by Paizo staff that the only way to get the PDF is to be an Adventure Path subscriber and have a standing pre-order for the physical book.

Are you sure that's not just how to get a free PDF? Because otherwise that doesn't sound consistent with prior practice.

Curious as to what the cover art will be. A rustic tomb with a sihedron incribed, new artwork, a montage of art from the AP ??

Aelryinth wrote:

Is it possible to buy this in PDF format without the print version? I've got lots more space on my computer then in physical storage! :)

No. It has been said elsewhere by Paizo staff that the only way to get the PDF is to be an Adventure Path subscriber and have a standing pre-order for the physical book.

That seems counter to Paizo's existing established business model. I would wager that since it will exist in a PDF form (for subscribers as you say)that they would be doing themselves a disservice (and losing a business profit angle) by not having it available as a normal purchase stand-alone. Now, it is possibel it may not be available as a PDF during the initial release..(though i would wager it would.)...and i have been wrong before!

Nothing about this product is standard.
Per the product description:

The Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition is not part of any subscription, but Pathfinder Adventure Path subscribers who preorder this book will receive a free PDF edition of this book when the print edition ships. (Note that you will need to have an active AP subscription at the time the Anniversary Edition ships in order to receive the PDF for free.)

If you preorder, you get the PDF for free. I will ask if we plan on having the PDF available for purchase separately at a future date.

)(&(*& My problem is not that I don't want the book, but I don't have ROOM for a book.

:P And Yes, I'm an AP subscriber. Trying to find places to stow my AP's is what prompted this whole thing. At this point, much as I love print, I'd vastly prefer just getting PDF's to read through and saving myself some room. But that's not really allowed for the AP's, either.

==Aelryinth

Buying just the PDFs of APs is about the same cost as the subscription, and you save shipping. But you lose the Pathfinder advantage for other purchases.

And since I purchase other stuff...:P

==Aelryinth

I will ask if we plan on having the PDF available for purchase separately at a future date.

Yes, the PDF will be available separately. Only AP subscribers who preorder the print edition will get the PDF free, though.

[Expounding on topic started in the Bestiary 3 thread] I found my copy of Spires of Xin-Xhalast with my hand-written notes in it. Tactical descriptions of the kuchrimas describe them using Shield and True Strike and Greg wrote in one of the RotRL threads that they should've had Feather Fall at will and Shield and True Strike each once per day as SLAs.

Further, it seems clear (from Mr. Vaughn's comments on said threads) that the lamia harridans were meant to have charming SLAs and the wisdom-draining capabilities of their lesser lamia kindred.

In particular, Mary Yamamoto complained at length about the latter and we don't want a repeat of that do we?