Pathfinder Online: Thornkeep (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Online: Thornkeep (PFRPG)
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The Pathfinder Online MMO will put YOU in command of your very own kingdom in the treacherous River Kingdoms of the Pathfinder world. Get an early start on conquest with Pathfinder Online: Thornkeep, a complete gazetteer of one of the upcoming game’s starting towns and the deadly dungeons that sprawl beneath it!

A co-production of video game developers Goblinworks and Paizo Publishing, this fully illustrated adventure sourcebook slots easily into any Pathfinder RPG campaign, and provides a tantalizing glimpse at the early production of the Pathfinder Online MMO, with behind-the-scenes accounts, sneak peeks at characters and environment images, and new details about the upcoming game.

This 96-page book also includes complete original dungeon levels designed by a who’s-who of adventure design: Richard Baker, Jason Bulmahn, Ed Greenwood, James Jacobs, and Erik Mona! With enough gaming material to advance a character from 1st to 8th level, Thornkeep brings the action and excitement of the Pathfinder Online MMO to your tabletop!

    Thornkeep contains the following complete dungeon levels:
  • The Accursed Halls (by veteran RPG designer Richard Baker): Buried beneath the castle of Thornkeep lie strange passages and chambers that once belonged to a cruel Azlanti wizard of eons past. Goblins have begun excavating the so-called Accursed Halls in hopes of finding a lost goblin artifact, though their constant battles with the undead that haunt these corridors has left them blind to the dungeon’s other myriad wonders.
  • The Forgotten Laboratory (by Pathfinder RPG Lead Designer Jason Bulmahn): The goblins of the dungeon's upper level took more than one trinket from the ancient laboratory that dwells beneath them. The wizard that created these items also performed dangerous experiments, many of which have gone out of control over the years. Stranger still, someone appears to be using the ancient equipment with sinister results.
  • The Enigma Vaults (by Paizo Creative Director James Jacobs): In ages past, the mad wizard who dwelt in these halls collected many strange items in his travels—and the strangest of those he put on display here, in a museum-like complex he called the Enigma Vaults. When a group of thieves made their way into the vaults in hopes of a huge payday, they released something far beyond their capacity to control, and now they serve as the thralls of a sinister influence from a dark and distant world.
  • Sanctum of a Lost Age (by Paizo Publisher Erik Mona): Scholars claim the dungeons below Thornkeep were built by the Ancient Azlanti, but how do they know, really? If Rozimus of Tymon speaks true, one level of Thornkeep’s dungeon holds survivors of that long-dead empire eager to return to the world and share the lore of their glorious age. They’re not undead, Rozimus claims, or illusory phantoms, but true living and breathing High Azlanti! But why does Rozimus know so much about them, and why is he so eager to return to the dungeon he claims almost killed him 5 years ago?
  • Dark Menagerie (by RPG legend Ed Greenwood): In life, the wizard who ruled this realm kept many trophies, mementos, and even captured pets from his journeys, both to entertain his dark sensibilities and to cow his business associates and coerced allies. Now, kept alive all these years via stasis-inducing magic that's recently failed, the unfettered beasts of his magical menagerie run amok.

Don't miss the Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Thornkeep Dungeons 2-Pack, which contains minis-scale battle maps of the four lower dungeon levels!

By Richard Baker, Jason Bulmahn, Ed Greenwood, James Jacobs, Erik Mona, and the Goblinworks Staff

ISBN: 978-1-60125-519-8

Thornkeep is sanctioned for use in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. Its Chronicle Sheet and additional rules for running this module are a free download (147 KB zip/PDF).

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

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A Mixed Bag

3/5

Ah, Thornkeep! I think many who experience it will have a love-hate relationship with it. On the plus side, there’s a great town ripe for exploitation by homebrew GMs who need a perfect place to launch a sandbox campaign. In addition, the five dungeon levels within can be raced through in PFS for a full 3 XP each! On the down side, those dungeon levels are of such inconsistent and often unfair difficulty that sudden PC deaths and even TPKs have become notorious. I’ve run all five dungeon levels, and I can testify they can be a group-destroyer!

Thornkeep is a 96-page book that includes a full gazetteer of the eponymous town and the surrounding area, a full description of each of the five dungeon levels under the town, and then a lengthy discussion of plans for an online Pathfinder game. The artwork within is great, and there are some nice maps. It’s worth mentioning that there are several associated products: flip-mats that make running four of the dungeon levels much easier, a novel (Crusader Road) that fleshes out a lot of the setting and NPCs, and even a granite plaque that reproduces the cover art.

The book starts with a two-page introduction from Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens that explains its origins as a Kickstarter incentive. The Kickstarter was to raise funds for Pathfinder Online, a massively multiplayer online RPG. The town of Thornkeep was designed as one of the three starting locations in the game, and this book and its expanded content was the result of several Kickstarter stretch goals being met. There's a sidebar that provides an overview of the five levels of the dungeons under the town, including suggested level ranges. The sidebar explains that because each was written by a different author, "all five dungeons have vastly different aesthetics, inhabitants, and dangers." That's an understatement!

The first major part of the book is an 18 page gazetteer of Thornkeep. Thornkeep is a small town--just 600 residents--but it definitely doesn't have "small town charm"! Instead, it's a dangerous place used by bandits and gangs of thieves. Locals protect themselves by hiring protection from mercenaries, as the town's current ruler doesn't particularly care what happens in the town. Nonetheless, it's not a completely chaotic "pirate's den" type of environment, as some order is provided by the multiple factions in the town. These take the form of guilds--a mercenary guild, a hunter's guild, a wizard's guild, and a thieves' guild. I'm guessing this design has something to do with the online game, and that the players could have their characters join a guild for advancement.

Thornkeep has an interesting backstory and there's plenty of flavourful fodder for role-playing in the description provided here. There's a full map of the town and a description of 38(!) locations within, many of which have little adventure hooks. I assume today most readers just gloss over this and head to the dungeon levels, but I'm really impressed by the detail in this section. It provides a good, classic overview of a group's "home base." It'd be a perfect location for an open-ended sandbox campaign, and a believable base for a group of PCs to start becoming major players in the River Kingdom. I used as much of it as I could even when running the dungeon levels in PFS, as the locations and NPCs provided make for some good role-playing and keep those sessions from being pure dungeon-crawling.

The next part of the book provides detail on Echo Wood, the larger area in which the town of Thornkeep is located. Although the section is only eight pages long, there are several great locations for adventures, though a GM would need to flesh them out from the brief descriptions provided. For example, there's Mosswater, an entire town overrun by merrows decades ago--who knows what treasures the fleeing residents left behind? Echo Wood also contains the Emerald Spire, but that's a whole other topic! There's a brief random encounter table that could have used expansion (and it suffers from the common problem of threats ranging all the way from CR1 to CR8, which means it'd be a potential TPK generator if a GM really rolled randomly on it). But all in all, this chapter's a good complement to the chapter on the town, and adds to the book's usefulness in setting up a classic, open-ended sandbox campaign.

The next five chapters of the book are eight pages in length each and devoted to the five dungeon levels under Thornkeep. As a sidebar in the Echo Wood chapter explains, each dungeon level is designed for PCs of different levels, and there's probably not enough XP in one level to get the PCs ready for the next. Thus, side quests will be necessary, and it'd be a really bad idea for a group to try to tackle the levels one after another without doing some adventuring elsewhere. I only ran the dungeon levels via PFS, where this wasn't a problem (apart from some awkwardness in making it clear that certain staircases were effectively off-limits), but in a regular campaign the GM may need to do some fancy footwork to keep groups from exploring areas they're just not ready for. As I mentioned above, each of the five levels is written by a different author, and even for PCs within the appropriate level ranges for them, the challenge levels vary dramatically. What they do share is a unified backstory about an ancient Azlanti wizard named Nhur Athemon who was exiled from his homeland and came to the Echo Wood to build a complex for his research and experiments. The gazetteer sections of the book do a decent job providing some lore and adventure hooks to get PCs into the first level of the dungeon, and there's a little bit of connection between the dungeon levels themselves, though for the most part they're pretty independent. Before moving onto each of the levels, I'll just note that the Thornkeep Flip-Mats cover the second, third, fourth and fifth levels, but a GM will have to draw their own map for level one (and it's not an easy one to draw).

SPOILERS BELOW

Level One is "The Accursed Halls", written by Richard Baker, and designed for 1st-level PCs. Frankly, I don't think it's a great start. Apart from the sprawling and confusing map, there's a video-game style requirement to obtain seven crystals of different colors scattered throughout the dungeon in order to open the door to the next one. PCs can easily be lulled in to a sense of complacency through multiple fights against goblins and the like, before suddenly being hit with some genuinely unfair encounters against wights, a shadow, and surprisingly nasty fungal crawlers. If you read the forums, there are a *lot* of complaints about this level and the number of PC deaths, and I can testify that when I ran it, there was the same result. A group of six min-maxed PCs might be fine, but a group of four average PCs should expect casualties.

Level Two is "The Forgotten Laboratory", written by Jason Buhlman, and designed for 2nd or 3rd level PCs. As the name implies, this level was where Nhur Athemon conducted arcane and alchemical experiments. Although the wizard himself is long dead, the labs have since been taken over by a half-orc alchemist beautifully named "Krenar Half-Face." There are some really fun bits in this dungeon, including mutated goblins, a goblin with alchemical vials embedded in his head (love the pic of Snarltongue!), and some clever traps. But compared to Level One, it was a breeze for the PCs and they finished it quickly.

Level Three is “The Enigma Vaults”, written by James Jacobs and designed for 3rd or 4th level characters. Stylistically, this level is great—it’s a sort of museum where Nhur Athemon stored and displayed artifacts from other planets. There are a lot of cool links to setting lore that doesn’t get much attention because it involves worlds other than Golarion. But it’s the boss of this level, a mi-go cleric named The Visitant, that I’ll never forget, as he pretty much broke my gaming group! He has claw four claw attacks—not a big deal. He has grab—not a big deal. He has sneak attack—a bigger deal, especially since he summons allies to help with flanking. He has a special power called evisceration, which means every time he succeeds on one of those grab checks, he inflicts sneak attack and ability score damage—a very deadly deal! Following most forum GMs, I went with the catch-and-release style when running the Visitant (dropping every grapple as a free action to continue the series of attacks), but this proved incredibly deadly—a couple of PCs were killed, one was permanently damaged, and one fled. There was real anger at the table afterwards, and the whole situation got escalated up to real-life PFS oversight in an attempt to reverse things. The players thought I was a terrible GM, I thought they were overreacting, and the group never really recovered. Suffice it to say, I was off to play-by-post to run the next two levels!

Level Four is “Sanctum of a Lost Age” by Erik Mona, designed for 7th level PCs. This is a good example where you can see what separates a skilled, professional writer from the lazy “drop a bunch of random monsters in rooms and call it good” type. The story involves Nhur Athemon’s three traitorous apprentices imprisoned in a time-stasis field indefinitely. The level is very interesting and dynamic, and the order in which PCs do things can change the entire way the situations play out. For example, when I ran this, an NPC who joins the PCs got himself killed in a trap, and his death created a paradox that destroyed the time-stasis, which in turn instantly destroyed every living creature and organic thing that had been trapped there! The apprentices themselves are definitely manageable, but there’s one potentially-lethal room where multiple high-CR monsters can be released every round if the PCs aren’t smart about how they deal with things. Overall, I thought this was probably the best written level in the book.

Level Five is “The Dark Menagerie” written by Ed Greenwood and designed for 5th level PCs. I have no idea why they put this adventure after the previous one (both in the book and in terms of moving down through the dungeons), as the PCs’ levels are supposed to be lower here than in “Sanctum of a Lost Age.” I think it was considered quite a coup at the time to get Ed Greenwood of Forgotten Realms fame to write a level, but unfortunately this is by far the least-inspired one in the book. The concept is that Nhur Athemon had created a zoo of exotic living creatures and engineered illusory environments to place them in, and all of this has been in stasis until the PCs arrive. The problem is that the creatures aren’t particularly rare and, apart from negotiating with a sphinx, there’s really nothing to do besides step into each room and fight the monsters within. I expected a lot more from a legend in the field. It does play fast if you need to quickly level up some PCs, but that’s about it.

The last section of the book is essentially promotional puff for the Pathfinder Online game, and it comes in at an absurdly long 26 pages (the longest chapter in the book). There’s little enduring value in this section now, but even at the time it came out, the assorted interviews when the game designers delivered little more than some of their early ideas, concept art, and discussion about the tech demo they were putting together. Frankly, this is the sort of thing that should be offered for free on a website to spruik the game, not printed in a sourcebook. I’ve never played the game (my understanding is it never really got off the ground in the sense of having paid subscribers), and there’s not a lot here that makes it sound particularly special or appealing compared to the many other sword and sorcery MMORPGs out there.

To end quickly because I’m running out of space, overall there’s some value in [b]Thornkeep[/b-—but just be careful how you use it!


Dungeon Crawl

4/5

Played this under PFS.

Thornkeep is simply a large dungeon crawl. If you like that sort of thing where it is more combat and trap searching then you'll probably really enjoy this. If you want role play then best to avoid as there isn't much interaction down here.

I rather enjoyed the whole experience apart from one character death (he was restored to the living thankfully). The problem with this adventure is that some of the encounters are far too powerful for the levels of adventurers delving those levels. Once again Paizo authors need to consider appropriate encounter levels and challenges.

But even with that, I fully enjoyed playing this module.


Some of the best play I've experienced in PFS

5/5

I've played all these scenarios as a player, and I own the paper for GM purposes. This is a perfect mini-campaign, just the sort of length I prefer and I wish they would make more of this size. I find full adventure paths to be on the long side, often taking more than a year to complete, and modules to be on the short side. Thornkeep is perfect. You can wade through these short, varied adventures and take a group through several levels in a month or two.

The adventures themselves were interesting and difficult; combat-oriented for the most part. You'll never be forced to endure two-hour session of listening to the bard describe how he's romancing some noble woman before he rolls his D20 at last.

I will say on the downside that the last scenario was weak. GMs should take license with a few of the details to make it play coherently. Also, the dungeons are cramped with larger groups (probably so they could fit it all on a flip-map). I had to declare a pet moratorium to fit people into rooms.


Do not buy or play

1/5

Poorly designed. Makes me really think hard about buy anything written by the so called "Allstars of game industry" ever again . The play experience is bad, nothing but TPK . To many over powered CR monster for the level.


Keep the setting; nuke the rest from orbit

3/5

This review is based on reading the entire book, playing one level of the dungeon (The Accursed Halls), and running two others (The Forgotten Library and the Engima Vaults)

The layout, art, and cartography in this product are excellent. The material on town of Thornkeep and environs is useful and well-done. Points of interest in the surrounding countryside, NPCs, town locations, etc. -- it's all here. There is even a full-page rumors table. Overall, things are very reminiscent of the better classic D&D products.

Once we head into the dungeons below town, however, things begin to unravel quickly. The whole dungeon feels like a series of disjointed encounters strung together with little pretense of a coherent story. Admittedly, this is to be expected to a certain degree in a project of this nature, but much of the material simply defies logic.

The last chapter is a behind-the-scenes of the upcoming Pathfinder MMO. I personally couldn't care less, and largely ignored this section, but if you're following the development of that the game, this chapter will likely be of great interest to you.

Overall, Thornkeep provides an excellent base of operations, then squanders it on a disjointed, sub-par dungeon crawl. Only the sheer excellence of the first half of the book saves the product from a lower rating.

(***--)


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Downloading the pdf now, SWEETNESS!

This is kinda cool, it sorta reads like a mini-Rappan Athuk. And Snarltongue - too cool!

Grand Lodge

Just downloaded, and read the into -- super excited.

Thanks Paizo and Goblinworks


so, reading through the accursed halls leaves me with a question. the map says that the scale is 1 square equals ten feet, but the text descriptions seem like the scale should be 1 square equals five feet. which is correct?

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Imrijka rocks. Just sayin'.

Sovereign Court

Downloaded the pdf and have started reading through it. Well played, dropping the "over 9,000" Easter Egg in there, gang. Well played indeed.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Omg omg omg!

Dark Archive

What? What? What?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Initial browse through pdf looks nice!


*makes note to download as soon as he gets home*

Developer

Mat Black wrote:
so, reading through the accursed halls leaves me with a question. the map says that the scale is 1 square equals ten feet, but the text descriptions seem like the scale should be 1 square equals five feet. which is correct?

1 square equals 10 feet. Just so I can get a clearer idea of what you're referring to, which read-aloud boxes seem to contradict this?


Patrick Renie wrote:
Mat Black wrote:
so, reading through the accursed halls leaves me with a question. the map says that the scale is 1 square equals ten feet, but the text descriptions seem like the scale should be 1 square equals five feet. which is correct?
1 square equals 10 feet. Just so I can get a clearer idea of what you're referring to, which read-aloud boxes seem to contradict this?

thanks for the reply, patrick!

Spoiler:
the description of the conjury mentions that the pillars are spaced out five feet apart and lists the DCs for the acrobatics check correspondingly. i may just be eyeing it wrong on the map and i don't have the pdf immediately available, so i can't double check, but the map made them seem about one square apart from one another. i recall at least one other little thing, but i'll have to check again to see if i can find it.

i'll roll with the 10'. and if i come across those other references while running it tomorrow night, i'll note it down.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Patrick Renie wrote:
1 square equals 10 feet. Just so I can get a clearer idea of what you're referring to, which read-aloud boxes seem to contradict this?

also, i just saw both the avatars and imagined them having this conversation with one another. :D


it was just my imagination. everything is copacetic.

Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mat Black wrote:
it was just my imagination. everything is copacetic.

Fantastic!

(I had to keep this chain going because you're right, our avatars go quite well together.)

Digital Products Assistant

The Chronicle sheet for this product is now available for download.

Scarab Sages

Just reviewed the chronicle sheets. Looks good. However, I might have found a problem. Because the chronicle sheets were not printed with an outline on how to use them in PFS and that the information regarding XP is not listed on the sheet, there might be a question with a large number of players regarding how much XP playing these scenarios would garner their characters.

I know from posts on this topic in other forums that Mike Brock mentioned that players would get +3 XP per scenario. I think, however, that it might be wise to reflect this XP value on the chronicles sheets themselves. That, or have an attached document in the PDF that reflects how XP is handled for these adventures.

Beyond that, however, great job putting out another quality product. Kudos!!!

Paizo Employee Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The rules for playing sanctioned content from adventures other than Pathfinder Society Scenarios can be found in Chapter 6 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. Because details of how to handle these additional sanctioned adventures may change at a future date, we print it only one place rather than along with each Chronicle sheet so that we don't need to update several dozen documents when such changes are needed. We'll make sure that these adventures are specifically noted as being treated like Pathfinder Modules despite not being part of that product line.

Scarab Sages

Mark Moreland wrote:
The rules for playing sanctioned content from adventures other than Pathfinder Society Scenarios can be found in Chapter 6 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. Because details of how to handle these additional sanctioned adventures may change at a future date, we print it only one place rather than along with each Chronicle sheet so that we don't need to update several dozen documents when such changes are needed. We'll make sure that these adventures are specifically noted as being treated like Pathfinder Modules despite not being part of that product line.

I appreciate it. :-)


Two questions for how to best run Thornkeep:

1) if you run the scenarios in order (i.e. w/o breaks) should you run them as a continuous module (ie. players keeping what they discovered until the end of the session) or do you have to for PFS play end precisely after a given scenario and "zero out" what the players have found as per the usual end of a scenario rules?

2) Given that the 3xp doesn't quite get characters to the right levels to play all of the scenarios in order your characters will likely have to play something else before completing the final scenarios - any suggestions for related materials that would work well as the in-between scenarios / module?

I'm fairly excited about the prospect of running the full Thornkeep module(s) with a single group of players and characters - it will be as close as PFS gets to a home campaign/adventure path I think and should be really fun to run (or play in) however I want to make sure I do this right.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Patrick Renie wrote:
Mat Black wrote:
so, reading through the accursed halls leaves me with a question. the map says that the scale is 1 square equals ten feet, but the text descriptions seem like the scale should be 1 square equals five feet. which is correct?
1 square equals 10 feet. Just so I can get a clearer idea of what you're referring to, which read-aloud boxes seem to contradict this?

The other one I see that seems to strongly suggest the map scale being 5 feet is:

Spoiler:
the pit trap in A5, which is described as being 5' by 10', but it is drawn as two squares.

I agree that some parts of the dungeon would seem very cramped indeed at the 5 foot scale; for instance, the initial fight would practically fill room A3.

My questions though:

Spoiler:
1) How many eyes does the statue of Abraxas in A7 have? They are described as "all of them function in the Door of Seven Stars", which wording suggests to me that there are more than two; or should this just be "both of them"?

2) Which lock is which in area D4? The map matches the description of D4 (with blue leading north to D6, yellow leading east to D5, and red leading south to D13), but the description of the wizard in D10 mentions that he is the only remaining source of Vuzhon's yellow sigil, which "can be used to open the [south] door to area D13"; and the description of D13 agrees that it should be reached with the yellow sigil, although it's described as Daegros's Foyer, which I would think is unlocked by his own red sigil. I suspect that the map and the D4 description are correct, and the D10 wizard's yellow sigil opens the eastern yellow door to D5 (the description of D13 is simply in error).

Dark Archive

What should be the approximate time that each of these should take to go through?

With a quick look, it looks like it would be fine for one 4 hour session. I do know a module would be 2 or 3 four hour sessions.

Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Paul Zagieboylo wrote:
Patrick Renie wrote:
Mat Black wrote:
so, reading through the accursed halls leaves me with a question. the map says that the scale is 1 square equals ten feet, but the text descriptions seem like the scale should be 1 square equals five feet. which is correct?
1 square equals 10 feet. Just so I can get a clearer idea of what you're referring to, which read-aloud boxes seem to contradict this?

The other one I see that seems to strongly suggest the map scale being 5 feet is:

** spoiler omitted **

Ah, good catch.

Spoiler:
The worn pit trap in area A5 should actually read "...multiple targets (all targets in a 10-ft.-by-20-ft. area)".

Paul Zagieboylo wrote:


I agree that some parts of the dungeon would seem very cramped indeed at the 5 foot scale; for instance, the initial fight would practically fill room A3.

My questions though:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
1. The statue of Abraxas has six eyes, technically. Abraxas himself has two, while each of his serpentine legs also sports two. Each eye is an orange garnet.

2. Oops! Looks like that little inconsistency slipped through dev/editing. Yes, you're correct. The map and the description in D4 are accurate, while the text of D10 should read "He bears the glowing red sigil of Daegros on his left hand, which can be used to open the door to area D13." The text of D13 should read "The door to this room is locked with an arcane lock effect that can be dispelled by a creature wearing Daegros's red sigil."

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Patrick Renie wrote:
Spoiler:
Oops! Looks like that little inconsistency slipped through dev/editing. Yes, you're correct. The map and the description in D4 are accurate, while the text of D10 should read "He bears the glowing red sigil of Daegros on his left hand, which can be used to open the door to area D13." The text of D13 should read "The door to this room is locked with an arcane lock effect that can be dispelled by a creature wearing Daegros's red sigil."

Are you sure?:
Um... really? This leaves the players with no source of Vuzhon's yellow sigil, because her stone head in D1 is broken. I really suspect the wizard in D10 is supposed to have Vuzhon's yellow sigil as written (and mentioned in D4), and the only error is the reference to which door it opens (it should be the yellow door to D5). This makes sense since Vuzhon's area is clearly meant to be the last one explored, so they should have to find the wizard before they can get there. The correction to D13 seems right, making it agree with the map and D4.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Speaking as the author, the corpse in D10 is the _only_ way that PCs are supposed to get through the yellow door in area D5. Paul has it exactly right.

Grand Lodge

I love me some Sanctum of a Lost Age.
I feel like I've just seen a short film which could easily become a feature length movie.
Erik, can you write a 'Libraries of the Lost Age' module follow up? With tonnes more

spoiler:
TIME LOCKS! If Nhur Athemon created a time lock, who else did? What did the united Azlanti magi do with this technology? Let's get some Fortresses beyond Space and Time going here!

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would have loved 20 more pages, at least. The amount I had to trim down to fit into the tiny word count was pretty staggering. Originally each room was to have some weird time-lock event, and Rozimus's party played a much more significant role. My main goal was to use as much space as possible with my map, and doing that put me in a very old school AD&D vibe, so I continued to go with that. Glad to hear you liked it!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Erik Mona wrote:

I would have loved 20 more pages, at least. The amount I had to trim down to fit into the tiny word count was pretty staggering. Originally each room was to have some weird time-lock event, and Rozimus's party played a much more significant role. My main goal was to use as much space as possible with my map, and doing that put me in a very old school AD&D vibe, so I continued to go with that. Glad to hear you liked it!

Feel free to drop that culled material into a supplemental PDF.

We won't mind. ;-)

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I second the Wampa.


Looking forward to this one.


Here! Here! Eric. Throw the slush pile at us!

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Is the new Kickstarter Superdungeon going to be available for general release like Thornkeep?

I really hope so.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

I'd also like ot know the answer to GeraintElberions' question. I'm still one of the sad old penand paper players, far prefer this to MMOs. I would love to get my hands on the kickstarter stuff - books and minis. O course if they become a big enough incentive it may well be worth just backing the kickstarter and gettign them this way.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If you don't back the kickstarter there may not BE a super dungeon. And the dungeon certainly won't be as nice as it would be if you backed it. I don't understand this premeditated waiting for stuff which gets better if you support it.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Because he lacks interest in the MMO - for which the kickstarter is meant? According to the kickstarter you need to pledge $75 to get the pdf of the possible megadungeon - quite a bit of money if you aren't interested in the MMO as well.

edit: I am not critizising paizo here, I just want to offer Stratagemini an explenation why somebody might not wish to invest here for the megadungeon.

Grand Lodge

incorrect -- if you pledge $105 -- $5 for min backing, you can add $100 to your pledge for the books/flipmats etc.

I am a back for both the MMO and for the PFRPPG stuff (at significantly more mind you 8).

Dark Archive

BraxtheSage wrote:

incorrect -- if you pledge $105 -- $5 for min backing, you can add $100 to your pledge for the books/flipmats etc.

I am a back for both the MMO and for the PFRPPG stuff (at significantly more mind you 8).

Actually I'm fairly certain feytharn is correct in the sense that, in order for you to get the PDFs of the superdungeon, you'll need to pledge a minimum of $75, before adding the $100 for the print version of the book. I'm not seeing the PDFs of the book mentioned anywhere in the RPG Print addon, much less any pledges lower than $75.

Sure, if you just want the print version and not the electronic version of the book, then yes, you can just pledge $105 as you mentioned.

This is how I understand it anyway.

Scarab Sages

Thank you, I missed that.


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I'm kind of interested in knowing if the Emerald Spire will be an entire book of TTRPG content, or if a significant portion of the page count will be dedicated to information about the upcoming MMO as was the case with Thornkeep.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I'm in the same boat. I can't afford to invest right now in the Kickstarter, and, unlike Thornkeep, the reward to investment ratio is too low for me.

Webstore Gninja Minion

Any discussion of the Emerald Spire megadungeon should probably go somewhere else besides this product page.

Grand Lodge

Erik Mona wrote:
I would have loved 20 more pages, at least. The amount I had to trim down to fit into the tiny word count was pretty staggering. Originally each room was to have some weird time-lock event, and Rozimus's party played a much more significant role. My main goal was to use as much space as possible with my map, and doing that put me in a very old school AD&D vibe, so I continued to go with that. Glad to hear you liked it!

Agreed with those who would like to see the pruned material.

Now, for a minor PFS quibble on this one:
For PFS, Ioun stones in Wayfinders have resonance via method 1, and only for perfect Ioun stones.

Now, with that out of the way, the clear spindle Ioun stone referenced in the level, which was also mentioned as being in a wayfinder, the method 1 resonance would sort of destroy the whole background for the NPC.

Clear spindle Ioun stone method 1 resonance:
Clear spindle: Protection from possession and mental control (as protection from evil).

Magic Jar, to me at least, would be the poster child for exactly what this Ioun stone/wayfinder combo is designed to prevent.

Any ideas on how to make this less jarring (pardon the pun) for PFS players who are extremely familiar with this combo?

Thanks!

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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@kinevon

My two C-bills.

Spoiler:
Leave it as it is. If/when the players make that connection, just nod and say "Normally it does." And leave it at that. IT will increase the paranoia, "Oh crap, you mean this place has something that bypasses our defenses?" and make the stakes seem more 'real'.

Paizo Employee Developer

kinevon wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Note that I didn't work as a developer on this project, so I don't know if there was further discussion that was cut or changed in development, but can offer a suggestion toward how to handle this in a PFS game should the issue arrise.

Spoiler:
I would simply say that the wayfinder in question is somehow malfunctioning and doesn't activate resonant powers when coupled with an ioun stone. This would mean the NPC may have thought he had the benefit of additional defenses when in fact he was totally vulnerable, just like everyone else.

It's not a perfect fit, but it's an explanation that should satisfy any PC who is clever enough to make the realization as you did.

Grand Lodge

Is there a more definitive release date beyond "January 2013" yet? I hope this and the flip-maps aren't postponed. I'm really hoping to spend my holiday coupon picking them up!

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

So far, I've printed out the maps (selecting the image and pasting into Word strips out the identifying laels and such, leaving only the art) and then enlarged them to a proper 1" = 5' scale. Then I cut them apart, encounter by encounter, and laminate them.

I prefer this enormously over showing the players the entire dungeon level. I don't think I'll ever actually use the flip-maps.

Developer

Chris Mortika wrote:
So far, I've printed out the maps (selecting the image and pasting into Word strips out the identifying laels and such, leaving only the art) and then enlarged them to a proper 1" = 5' scale. Then I cut them apart, encounter by encounter, and laminate them.

That's a cool idea!

Chris Mortika wrote:
I prefer this enormously over showing the players the entire dungeon level. I don't think I'll ever actually use the flip-maps.

One way I prevent this while using the flip-maps is by taking black construction paper (or just white printer paper if that's all I have) and cutting it loosely into the shape of the various areas, taping it all together before laying it out on the map and hiding the areas the PCs haven't explored yet. As the players explore the dungeon, I can remove one piece at a time relatively easily.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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Patrick,

I've seen that. I've also seen GMs who dump a hundred or so black construction-paper circles on the map, obscuring the area. They "sweep away" the circles in areas where the players explore. (That has the advantage that they can expose only the parts of large dark rooms that the PCs light sources can illumine.)

Grand Lodge

I prefer the flip-maps. It's easier, and any intelligent GM knows to cover up the unvisited parts of the map before the party explores it.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I just use the flip mat and say: "Don't metagame."

Seems to work.

Dark Archive

February, what happened?

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